Wolverine: Not so great

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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by OctoberHoliday » Sat May 02, 2009 10:54 pm

I really don't think he's all that great. I find him extremely boring for some odd reason. I suppose it's because he's in all the media involving x-men. Or maybe it's because he's always very aggressive, and that really doesn't do much for me.

Am I alone in this?

[Edited on 3/5/09 by OctoberHoliday]
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Sat May 02, 2009 11:02 pm

I wish, but sadly, no. You're in fact one of the passionate few.

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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by Freak » Sat May 02, 2009 11:07 pm

One of the passionate few? Far as I know the biggest gripe the people who dislike Wolverine have is that he's all angry all the time, and that ain't a truly developed character :P
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by OctoberHoliday » Sat May 02, 2009 11:12 pm

Freak wrote:One of the passionate few? Far as I know the biggest gripe the people who dislike Wolverine have is that he's all angry all the time, and that ain't a truly developed character :P
Wait, so do you agree with me? Or no?:?

And you, Ult. What do you mean. For some reason I'm having some trouble understanding,
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by The Drastic Spastic » Sat May 02, 2009 11:28 pm

Freak wrote:One of the passionate few? Far as I know the biggest gripe the people who dislike Wolverine have is that he's all angry all the time, and that ain't a truly developed character :P
But he's not angry all the time. :? There was a period in the 90s where he was the angry animal all the time, but through most of his history he's been harsh and aggressive, but not really angry.
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by OctoberHoliday » Sun May 03, 2009 12:02 am

Yeah, not angry, aggressive. That's a better word to describe him. I'll switch it. Thanks.
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by neling4 » Sun May 03, 2009 12:56 am

IMHO, he is only interesting when he is portrayed as Nightcrawler's best friend. Unfortunately, they scarcely interact at all any more.
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by fourpawsonthefloor » Sun May 03, 2009 1:54 am

Well I have liked some wolverine things - his origions stuff was neat. I think the biggest gripe that people that aren't all about wolverine is that he's overused and therefore it gets really tiring. Kinda 'seen that' sort of stuff, you know?

Wolverine I like if done well, but he's not a favorite.
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Sun May 03, 2009 2:08 am

I meant I wish that everyone else was sharing your opinion, sorry I didn't read your original post correctly.

But yes, Wolverine can be done correctly, but it's rare and not often done.

I like when he is portrayed as Kurt's friend best, but when he's warmed up to anyone, be it Kitty, Hank, whoever, it's nice. But lately he doesn't seem attached to much of anyone.

Wolverine: The End was nice.
I wish they'd do a what-if death of Kurt.
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by OctoberHoliday » Sun May 03, 2009 6:59 pm

Yeah, I've heard of a few instances where he is really personal. Doesn't Kurt own him a drink or something?

He's cool when he's having a sweet moment, but those are very few and far between.

Has Hugh Jackman been portraying him right? His Wolverine seems a little soft around the edges.
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by steyn » Sun May 03, 2009 7:13 pm

I think Jackman's Wolverine is pretty much faithful to the comic.

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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by The Drastic Spastic » Mon May 04, 2009 1:10 pm

steyn wrote:I think Jackman's Wolverine is pretty much faithful to the comic.
Yep. Wolverine has almost always been more well-rounded and sensitive than the haters give him credit for.
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by fourpawsonthefloor » Mon May 04, 2009 3:26 pm

Yeah, I agree. I mean he's a lot of 'snarl' and 'snickt' but he also does give a crap about others. He's just not 'warm fuzzies' kind of give a crap. More like the 'if someone's bugging you I'll skewer them' crap. He's not going to hold your hand, but he'll always have your back.

Look at how protective he is of Laura (x-23).
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Post by Ult_Sm86 » Mon May 04, 2009 3:36 pm

The thing is though, he also knows what he is, which is a weapon. He doesn't like using it, but clearly he has no problem being the "Go-Team" of exterminators for Scott (along with the other members in that squad).

Which I think is B.S. 'cuz after all the progress he and Kurt and Scott have made with him, you'd think he'd be like "well... killing just seems wrong Scott. Why not just lock them up?"

Then again, we are talking about Wolverine and though he's no Sabertooth, he does enjoy it. When it's someone evil? Oh yeah. Red in his eyes, and I don't mean blood. :love
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by The Drastic Spastic » Mon May 04, 2009 9:53 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote:The thing is though, he also knows what he is, which is a weapon. He doesn't like using it, but clearly he has no problem being the "Go-Team" of exterminators for Scott (along with the other members in that squad).

Which I think is B.S. 'cuz after all the progress he and Kurt and Scott have made with him, you'd think he'd be like "well... killing just seems wrong Scott. Why not just lock them up?"
He's too practical for that kind of namby-pamby temporary solution. His catchphrase is the best there is at what he does... and what he does isn't very nice. He'd rather take that burden on himself than risk the bad guys escaping and hurting more people. The guilt of killing them is less than the guilt of not killing them when he had the chance.
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by Elfdame » Mon May 04, 2009 9:57 pm

The Drastic Spastic wrote: The guilt of killing them is less than the guilt of not killing them when he had the chance.
Wow. That totally sums up the Wolverine "killing machine with a conscience" appeal. We should all save this quote for future reference when explaining the character to people. Wish I could have expressed it so clearly.

Well done!!!
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by OctoberHoliday » Mon May 04, 2009 10:20 pm

Okay, so the character isn't so bad after all, but there is something that bugs me. I don't know if it's just the movies or what, so maybe you guys can help me clear it up.

His constant ga-ga over Jean Grey in the films is extremely tiring! Seriously, she's not that great. If you're looking for a quality woman try Storm or something. Is he like that in the comics as well?
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Post by Elfdame » Mon May 04, 2009 10:33 pm

I'm not as knowledgeable as some, but I agreed that the screen-Jean wasn't the kind of lady to make me all drooly. I mean, if they could've de-aged Mary Steenburgen and made her a red-head ... okay, anyway, in the comics I've read (not speaking Ultimates, which I didn't like so didn't read a lot), Logan has different women at different eras. He really REALLY loved a Japanese lady -- do check out those issues if you are able; they will give insight into his character. But neling or someone will have to tell you the numbers as I am spending way too much time here on Scrawlers today and don't have time to dig up the info.

And I agree about Storm: yum. She's pretty neat. As far as x-1 Jean, she was very brilliant and very compassionate, and those are qualities which a Wolvie-type could admire and long for.
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by OctoberHoliday » Mon May 04, 2009 11:03 pm

Yes, X-1 Jean is a good person and all, but honeslty, there isn't too much special about her. I admire her character, but why why why would Wolverine go for a girl who's already got a man? And the actress, Mary Steenburgen I think you said, seemed awkward and uncomfortable.

Now, I understand that Wolverine needs a rock in his life, but I wouldn't exactally call Jean stable.




[Edited on 4/5/09 by OctoberHoliday]
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by Witchbrew » Tue May 05, 2009 3:14 am

I believe the Japanese lady is Mariko. I don't know the issue numbers either.

Famke Janssen played Jean Grey in the X-Men movies. I've had a tough time getting a feel for the character (guess I need to read some more). In some versions/eras, she seems confident and has decent control over her powers. In others, she's very conflicted and has difficulty controlling them (I think this was the lead-up to the Phoenix story). Then they had the Phoenix story (evil Jean). :phoenix
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by Slarti » Tue May 05, 2009 3:57 am

Mariko Yashida first appeared in X-Men 118 in 1979. She was Sunfire's cousin and around the team periodically for years, though the main relationship with Logan was around the 160-70s. Logan was engaged to her until her death, which is a sad, sad story that will make you love Logan even if he is vastly overused nowadays.

The relationship with Jean in the movies comes from his relationship with Jean in the comics. He was attracted to her from almost the beginning, but she was with Scott so he wound up with Mariko. Generally whenever Jean's alive he's got a thing going for her, and sometimes she reciprocates.

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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by steyn » Tue May 05, 2009 6:52 am

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:shifty

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And here's the best pic I could find of Wolverine and Mariko Image

[Edited on 5/5/2009 by steyn]

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Post by Ult_Sm86 » Tue May 05, 2009 7:48 am

If you read Origins you'll see why some of his passions for Jean are as so strong. There is a scarlet haired young woman who becomes his ward and protector as a small child when the death of his father and various family members occurs and he is banished by his grandfather. (See the film "Origins" for a mangled shortened version of this minus the red-headed girl and central character to his future passion with Jean.)

As for Ultimate, though I see a lot of people don't like it and lately I can't blame you, his passion for Jean comes from, as far as I can tell, an excuse to be young. At heart if nothing else. Which of course infuriates Scott all the time resulting in some pretty awesomely heinous fights. Sadly, they played that tune too much and it got dry real fast.

As for MOVIE Logan's relationship with Jean, as I noted above, the Origins movie botches up the change in Logan's life and makes a luke-warm attempt at explaining his memory loss. While the adamantium bullet is credible, I suppose, what "The End" and "Origins" explain it as his mind, just as his body, becomes injured or fractured, broken or destroyed, and like his body, it too heals.
If this means healing over bad memories that could do harm to his mental health and traumatize him, then so be it? So naturally he heals over his memories of the death of his family and remembers only the young red headed woman who loves him so.

When her unfortunate death occurs, (which is both heart wrenching and very tense) he freaks out and naturally, after a quick scuffle with Sabertooth, forgets about her. Sadly.

This, and only this, explains why his subconscious has such a driving force towards Jean, being the two women share many, many, MANY of the same qualities, and I don't mean physical features (:smirk), but they share the compassion and faith that Logan is indeed a man not an animal, the dedication of a strong woman, and the ability to peer into his heart and mind, and one doesn't even need telepathy to do it.
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by Elfdame » Tue May 05, 2009 2:12 pm

OctoberHoliday wrote:And the actress, Mary Steenburgen I think you said, seemed awkward and uncomfortable.
My bad ... I was trying to say that I didn't find the actress particularly interesting visually. And I always picture Jean as good-looking, so I imagined if they could have plucked Steenburgen in her prime and done a dye job, I could drool over her. She also is able to play a tough yet compassionate person. And I love her dimples *sigh*.

I agree that Logan was always attracted to Jean in the comics, but he also liked other women too. In a movie they feel a need to invent a romance (see "Prince Caspian" for that, ugh) and Jean was available. (my opinon).
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Wolverine: Not so great

Post by Freak » Wed May 06, 2009 9:17 am

You know what I personally dislike about Wolverine? He's a Mary Sue. :shifty

Think about it: He gets women en masse, even though he's short and hairy and has got no manners. He survives the most ridiculous situations (hey, he's short, hairy, ferral...maybe his dad was Bugs Bunny?) and from time to time he gets all emotionally deep, like, totally (meaning he gets the dark brooding AND the ability to solve everything he perceives as a problem quickly and without hindrance, an emo's wet dream).

Basically, he's a samurai, a weapon, a victim, a killer, a lover, a hero, all at the same time, and only the positive parts. I am a firm believer that in a comic, every profile of a character should have advantages and disadvantages. Like, if you want your cash cow to be a samurai, because samurai swords and stuff like that are all kinds of cool nowadays, you should show him with a bit more control over his temper and a bit less bloodlust, because samurais aren't all about the rage.

So yeah, to me Wolverine=cash cow Mary Sue that's there to fullfill the power fantasies of teenagers and be cool for being-cool's sake :shrug
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