Avengers general discussion

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Post by Bamfette » Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:29 am

actually, he's kinda doing the rotaing team thing. picking the team members best suited for a particular mission... with a few mainstays

no comment on Captain Britain, except they appear sooner than you may expect.

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Post by Warbird » Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:49 am

The rotating Avengers is a great thing. Once an Avenger always an Avenger. That also gives a lot of room for a lot of good charichters!!!! That's the one thing that drives me nuts about the team. Some of the old favorites leave and you don't hear from them forever because there's a well structured team they keep using. I'd personaly like to see Namor show up at some point if it's going to be ever changing. Hopefully there'll be room for Warbird to make a few appearances too!!!
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Post by Warbird » Sun Feb 08, 2004 7:44 pm

I just heard a rumor that Chuck is going to leave the Avengers after a second arc. Is this true? I know that a lot of writers are being swiched around, but it never crossed my mind that the Avengers were a part of it. If anyone has any info on this I'd like to hear it please!!
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Post by Bamfette » Sun Feb 08, 2004 10:12 pm

yeah. he quit Avengers. before anyone says anything, he was not fired, he left of his own choice, because he felt what he was being asked to writewas contradictory with what he wanted to write. after 2 arcs, but long ones. about 12 issues, i htink it was. so he'll be around for 6 months (it's going bi-weely)

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Post by Warbird » Mon Feb 09, 2004 12:31 am

If you don't mind me asking, what were these contradictions? I'm hoping it didn't have to do with the circulating team members. I really think that was a good idea. I'm actually dissapointed that he's leaving so soon, seeing as how I really liked what he wrote for the Captain America title a while back. I don't mean this in a derogitory manner at all, but I like his non-X-Men (which I DO like, but am not super crazy about) related writing a lot better. A lot period actually. I wanted to see where he'd go with the Avengers.
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Post by Bamfette » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:21 am

no, it was more the tone he was going for. with Avengers he wanted to do more of a War Machine type tone. more realistic, political, kinda dark. but the editors were more after straight up super heroics and soap. which he was already being asked to write with limited success in X-Men and he wasn't interested in doing that again. granted, he wanted X-Men to have soap, but the editors wanted a whole new level of it that he was not anticipating, which led to some problems. he thought that Avengers would be good for political stories with the world view of Americans right now and such, but the editors did not want that.

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Post by Warbird » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:43 am

What!!! I don't want a soap-opera Avengers. The Avengers have a history of political undertones anyway. That's crap.
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Post by Bamfette » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:37 am

he also tried to inject some humor into it, more than just the Cap/Clint conversation. and editors ALWAYS balk at humor. I dunno if they are afraid thje readers wont get it or what, but.... there was this whole botched robbery scene, it was hilarious, my favourite scene of the script... cut. : my favourite whole ISSUE of Uncanny will never see print because it's too much humor, or something. ah.... leprechauns.... no, trust me, it's funny as hell. Wolverine digging around in the back yard like a deranged dog, Iceman and er... well, Stacy... (was written a LONG time ago) so that would have to changed along with one of my favourite lines....

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Avengers general discussion

Post by mightiest_mortal » Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:12 pm

Thats a shame :(
I picked up the 50 cent issue + it was rather good :) il definately get the rest of the Arc.
At least that means Chucks got other projects lined up if he can afford to quit avengers then.

PS. Bamfette, is there any chance i can take a look at that script? I can remember hearing about it on X-Fan back in the good old days.

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Post by Warbird » Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:51 pm

Most of my friends and I are rather diehard Avengers fans and quite frankly, we all think it's nice to get some comedy every now and then... It tends to have heavy stories by it's very nature, but what's wrong with occasionaly lightening things up? I wouldn't want every issue to be a delightful romp, but every now and then it's fun.

Those crazy editors, thinking they can read the publics minds... what would we do without them?
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Post by Bamfette » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:10 pm

Marvel is notorious for micro-managing. In some ways it's not too bad, like making sure each x-book has a distinct voice and feel so that as many people as possible will have atleast one book they like. but they take it to extremes sometimes.... while DC does offer a lot of money for their exclusive deals judging by what Chuck's told me of their offers (which he has refused so far becuase he likes the Marvel characters the best. he's not in it for the money) but they are also a FAR better working/creative environment, especially for writers. just because they do little things like ASKING for changes instead of just changing whole pages of dialogue themselves. he says writing Supeman is a dream, and he's pulling his hair out with every Marvel project. I think he's getting much closer to signing an exclusive with DC because of that, though he says it's gotten better lately. and he says the Avengers editor does not change things without his knowledge, they just disagree, so he has to do a lot of pretty major re-writes. and Olivier is a great artist to work with, something he can't say about some of his former partners on X-Men.... I noticed a few changes from the script, but they were minor... a word here and there, and Olivier's interpertation of it was spot on, almost exactly what i pictured when i read it.

MM - while i don't think it will see print at this point, simply because Chuck did not get the two stars of the arc, there is the chance that maybe someday editors will relent, and he will be in a position to write it again... so... on that off chance, i am gonna hold off on showing it around. for a while, atleast. I will have to ask Chuck if it's ok

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Post by Swashbuckler » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:54 am

So after digging around on X-Fan I noticed a small gathering of posters talking about a rumor concerning Meggan and Captain Britains marriage being on the rocks for this Avengers arc. I don't know if that's true at all (it's probably not) because I have also heard on the same board (again, this is all rumors) that the Captain Britain appearing will be a new female Cap, so....who knows. I for one think Meggan deserves SSSSOOOOO much better then Brian

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Post by Warbird » Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:16 pm

Well, it comes out tomorrow, but I saw some previews of this next issue and it doesn't look like it's Brian at all. [spoiler] from what I saw, It looks like when Cap is nocked out, the mom is going to pick up the sheild and defend him and her children. I think she's going to be the new Captain Brittian. [/spoiler] That is, unless the story pans out differently than what the first few pages give the impression of. We'll find out tomorrow though!!!
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Post by mightiest_mortal » Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:49 am

look at this about the latest issue...

someone says they like it, lots of people say they like it...

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/sho ... adid=26071

Someone says they dont like it so everyone says they dont like it now...

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/sho ... adid=26102

:? Confused :? ?????

Xfans gone mad i say.

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just a little off-topic question

Post by kladyelf » Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:15 pm

I've always enjoyed the occasional Avengers Issue - the one a few years ago now, with the Beast guest starring is still one of my favourites - a two page spread of Hank's face "HONEY, I'M HO-OOME!" just cracks me up! :LOL

but i do have a tiny question, (with a little background to it...) turn back the clock a few *more* years, back to the nineties (*watches wheels grind in various brains* :D :bamf) There was an issue with a character called "Deathcry" who apparrently was a Shi'ar (tho she didn't look it - i've never quite figured that out *shrugs*) where there was a fuss over some message disk which was sent via wormhole and put the sun on the blink yadda yadda, softer side, yadda yadda Hercules, yadda yadda cliffhanger, yadda yadda yadda.

Um... What exactly happened to Deathcry anyway?
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Post by Warbird » Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:49 pm

Originally posted by mightiest_mortal
look at this about the latest issue...

someone says they like it, lots of people say they like it...

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/sho ... adid=26071

Someone says they dont like it so everyone says they dont like it now...

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/sho ... adid=26102

:? Confused :? ?????

Xfans gone mad i say.
I'm obviousely a huge Avengers fan and also an Austin suppoerter. This last issue was absolutely awful though. I've really liked this arc so fan and was looking forward to this issue, but I'm not even sure if I want to read the rest of it now. The charicters personalities were so off that if I had just read it, and not seen the pictures, I wouldn't even have known it was the Avengers. Captain America called a woman that saved his life stupid!!! I also am sick of the whole Hank and Jan thing, which had been layed to rest. It doesn't need to be rehashed once more. Oh, and an arrow that can take down Thore doesn't even slighty hurt the wrecking crew? And what is with Hawkeye beign so stupid? If this is a set up for him becoming Goliath again, I'll be almost as dissapointed as if Brian joins the team.

I'm sorry, I usually really like Austin's writing but this was a slaughter of a very established group. I do have to say that I was all for him writing the Invaders series, but I don't want them to be done in this style. Sorry if this post upsets anyone. It's just my oppinion.

Ah, I was so buisy ranting I forgot about deathcry. I didn't read this story, but from what I know she and Hurculese had a little somthing going on. When he lost his immortality he felt as out of place as she did on earth and decided to help her get home. From what I know, he got her home and then she was never really heard from again.
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Post by zati1 » Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:05 am

i dunno, i liked the issue. i thought hawkeye was consistent, being the hothead and all...i mean, i thought it was totally like him to go try and take on the wrecking crew to show 'em a lesson...to waltz into the room where he thought the mother would be alive and well...

she-hulk was comforting the girl, something not so out of character...

jan and hank, that came a little from left field, but we have to remember that in "comic book time," they just had that messy relationship spat a little while ago. people harbor some bad feelings still.

cap was...well, maybe a little out of character. but understandably so. he wasn't angry at the woman so much as he was angry at himself.

i thought it was a really good issue and it really covered a lot of characters' feelings.

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Post by Warbird » Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:14 pm

I'll give you Hawkeye being a hothead and taking on the wreckingcrew, but he's not an idiot, like he's being portrayed. It seems like he's just being made out to be some baffoon that has no idea about anything.

As for Jen, I didn't say that every charicter was wrong, just a few key ones, that unfortunately reflects on the entire group. She I can see being irrisponsible and bardging into the room as well as trying to comfort the little girl.

I really think that the Hank and Jan thing had been given closure. It happend a while ago even in comic time. Also, they'd been spending time together that wasn't muddled by her still having hard feelings at all. This was just a sudden relapse, seemingly out of nowhere. I don't know, maybe I"m jumping the gun and he is actually going somewhere with this.

You do have to admit that it's werid that [spoiler] The wrecking crew just busted out easily when Hawkeye was there. DId it just not occure to them that they might want to before? They're not that stupid. And honestly, why didn't that arrow, ment for Thore, stop them? They're not that powerful. And if Hawkeye just used the wrong arrow, I'm going to be super upset, he's not dumb just rash.[/spoiler]

Anyway, it's cool that you liked it, some of my firends did. I just was taken by suprise, which could have been Austin's intention anyway. Too bad it was way to dramatic and fast of a change in charicters and logic for me. I don't even think it fits the rest of the arc so far. I'm really dissapointed.
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Post by Tatu » Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:33 pm

"Out of character" You know I keep hearing this.. and I wonder if people even know what they're talking about.

A woman, with 2 small children, was just MURDERED people do not act like their usual selves during tragedy, they lash out, they have emotional outbursts, they're vulnerable, these characters aren't being written out of character, they're being written as HUMAN.
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Post by Warbird » Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:28 am

"... and I wonder if people even know what they're talking about."

I don't know how you meant that to be taken, but I found that a little insulting. Let me explain what I'm talking about and why I think that it is really "out of charicter".

People don't act the same during tragedy, I agree. But the Avengers have all been around the block a few times. This isn't the first murder, tredgedy, or injustice that they have seen. It's not like they haven't delt with these situations before, and I can't remember most of them acting like this in similar situations.

Even if the argument is used that she was different becuase she was defending them, the Captains had other people die trying to help him, and he didn't call any of them stupid. This really upsets me becuase Austin wrote the ice arc. Cap was lead to belive that his wife was murdered (yes, i know it eneded up being an illusion) and he didn't lash out like that. It's even inconsistant with his own writing!!!

Lastly, Clint didn't even know that woman was dead, and his stupidity started well before he found out. This also doesn't apply to why Jan and Hank are suddenly not getting along again, or why Hawkeye even said anything about it.

I know what "out of charicter" means, and I know what I'm talking about. If you prefer, I say the charicters are inconsistant with their past behaviors, which I don't agree with considering it was a change done so suddenly, to a group with such well established personal charicteristics.

*edit* Going back and reading this over, it sounds kind of hostile. It's not meant to be. I'm just telling why I think that "out of charicter" is an appropriate way to describe this issue.
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Post by Tatu » Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:04 am

Originally posted by Warbird
"... and I wonder if people even know what they're talking about."

I don't know how you meant that to be taken, but I found that a little insulting.
Heh, No i wasnt referring to you, i was referring to the kids who jump on the bandwagon and hate it just to hate it and yell things they dont even know what they mean. (i dont have the links of me to show my point..they were on X-fan I think)

You had though out opinions and made an intelligent discussion, you're exempt from that group.

Personally my interpretation was as follows : I dont see it as out of character but vulnerable and I see his "Stupid" line, while being said TO her, not ABOUT her but about what she DID. because I've said that before, and i've been referring to the action not the person.
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Avengers general discussion

Post by Winged Outlaw » Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:43 am

Originally posted by mightiest_mortal
look at this about the latest issue...

someone says they like it, lots of people say they like it...

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/sho ... adid=26071

Someone says they dont like it so everyone says they dont like it now...

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/sho ... adid=26102

:? Confused :? ?????

Xfans gone mad i say.
Actually, Jim's post (from the perspective of a long-time Avenger's fan) was simply better informed. New readers wont notice character flaws, anyway.

All I can say is I'm glad I wasn't reading the Avengers anyway.

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Post by Warbird » Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:30 am

Originally posted by Tatu
Heh, No i wasnt referring to you, i was referring to the kids who jump on the bandwagon and hate it just to hate it and yell things they dont even know what they mean. (i dont have the links of me to show my point..they were on X-fan I think)
Oh good. I feel much better now that I know what you meant :D I think that the people that have been trashing this arc from the beginig are on the Anti-Austin bandwagon. They've developed a predjuduce against anything he's written. Or some are simply repeating what they've heard, to cover up the fact that they have no idea about the charicters histories, and how the comic has been developed over the years. They don't have a basis for an opinion of thier own, so they just ignorantly agree with what ever is fed to them. I completely agree there. I've actually been experiencing alot of that with younger readers in my area (non message boards). They saw Spiderman, X-Men, and the Hulk movies, started reading a few months ago, and think they're experts.

I've liked the rest of the arc and I usually like Austins's writing, but this issues was unsetteling and off to me. I can see your point, but it's just not for me.
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Post by Warbird » Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:23 pm

Did anyone pick up the last issue yet. It's definately a huge improvement. I like [spoiler] Jan finaly growing when it's appropriate, and that there was finaly an explination to why Thunderball was so tough. [/spoiler] Earlier is the arc, I just could not fathom him being that tough at all. It's good to see that he was seperated him the rest of the crew, which put them in their place. That's the Avengers I know. I also loved [spoiler] That Kelsey chose Excalibur. I was really upsed that it seemed she'd just be returning back to her life and children, Or we'd have another amazing Captain Britian. This was a much better solution. Also, since I so strongly dislike brian, I like that his phrasing practicly tricked her into her choice. [/spoiler]

Two things I still have problems with. [spoiler] Jan and Hank... let it go. They go from beign chummy lately, to this rediculouse, has been done, tention between them? It just doesn't work. And lets get some real Avenger's action!!! Wanda gave the Recking crew a cold, and Jan rode the quinjet... that was about it. Wiat no, Iron man's shoe, got some action too. [/spoiler]

I do like it about a thousand times better than the last one though.
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Post by KurtnMeggan » Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:18 am

I'm really looking forward to "Avengers Disassemble" and the revamp into TWO Avengers books, but I'm not liking the rumors I'm hearing about somebody dying...especially who thsoe rumors refer too!:o

Coipel's art lately has been great; much better than it was in Red Zone. Still, I'll be glad to have David Finch on the title since his stuff in Ultimate X-Men was just gorgeous:love
Meggan and Kurt! Love them! You know you wanna;):meggan

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