Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

The X-Men! Spider-Man, Iron Man, the Hulk, the Fantastic Four, Thor, Captain America, and more!
User avatar
Nandireya
Swashbuckler
Swashbuckler
Posts: 1606
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:46 pm
Title: The Librarian
Location: Australia
Contact:

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Nandireya »

Originally posted by Diablo
In X-Men:the End -a possible X-future by Chris Claremont, Logan and Ororo are together.
As for Nightcrawler... not with Rachel but with Kymri. -a blue pirate princess from an alternate timeline -see Excalibur, vol.1 , #16-17. They even have two children.

So, if Claremont is following the events he has invented in X-Men : the end, we know what to expect.
I wouldn't say it's set in stone...even the letters page says it's just one possible future...that it may not be the future that they're currently heading towards...

And yeah...what Jill said...I even included Kymiri on my Alternate Kurts page...
:read The Librarian ~ Keeper of Elfin Facts :read

:bamf I'm sick of my subconscious...it's like it's got a mind of its own... :bamf

:D A Touch Of Velvet :D
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
Nah...Magneto is the MASTER! heh heh ... alan's art is wonderful and I wish he would show up more. seems he's like Dave, sorta... keeping a monthly deadline may be onerous to him and he saves himself for special issues. I think he is still plotting with Chris, though...
The art by Park is OK...I am not sanguine about how he does hair...especially Kurt's and Logan's. Ireally hate the spikey, Japanimation look. Other artists have used it, too..andI hated it then as well. Kurt's hair is wavy and someqhat curly...it is soft and touchable. I really hate it when he has ben drawn with it sticking out at angles... like he didn't comb it after a bad night. PTUI!

As to Kurt doing his female double... hmmm.. I don't think I will GO there...LOL I do think the interaction between 'Ro and him...dancing on air... was whimsical and real. Two companions and compatriots enjoying a leisure moment and each other's company.
As far as the Hellfire storyline...well...let's just say it did not interest me the first time he did it long ago... it hasn't improved over time as far as I can see. sebastian Shaw mellowing out? Not hardly. Roberto was a shocker.didn't expect that! Fer sure! we shall have to see where Chris takes us with this...where sage fits in and such. I found jumping from scenerio to scenerio every other page disconcerting at best. OK... this stuff is supposed to behappening simotaneously and how to picture that is difficult... but I just found this method confusing and disorienting.
and with the previous issue, I didn't really see Rachel knuckling under to Emma...merely agreeing to work within her expertise in this instance, since Emma was white queen and at one time and knew the inner configurations and workings of the Hellfire Club. When you are in a dangerous place and your enemy knows the pitfalls and ropes, it is stupid and childish not to take advantage of any tactical information youcan get from him...or her... to help safely tread a very dangerous maze. I doubt seriously that Rachel has been browbeaten by Emma... but where they were was no place for supposed allies to battle. That was just tactical wisdom. Save the personal stuff for later. do the job.

I thought the scene in the restaurant with Logan and Kurt where Kurt was being ogled and propositioned by girls was priceless. OY! the popularity of the guy! LOOL

Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
Oops... forgot to add...
About the Vision of Lovliness, KLadyElf... it's around here someplace. The printed version, that is...the original went in letter form to the magazine and they simply reproduced it ...LOL... I saw it not long ago and it has goten buried again...but I shallendeavor to find it again and have dave post it to the list for your enjoyment. I still have no idea how to post links to the list... but he does...LOL... so I shall give him something to do with his new toy!
LOL
Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
Nightcrawler ZERO
Butt Monkey
Butt Monkey
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:58 pm
Location: Home= MA School= GA
Contact:

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Nightcrawler ZERO »

Preview pages for the next arc of Uncanny.

BEWARE MASSIVE SPOILERS
http://www.popcultureshock.com/viewer.p ... d=3781&p=1
User avatar
Entropy
Butt Monkey
Butt Monkey
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 1:23 pm

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Entropy »

i saw these pages earlier today...all i can say is that i was rather suprised. wondering how they are going to explain it. and alan davis's art is, as always, phenominal.
Dave, your creations brought joy to my life and inspired my imagination. R.I.P.

Insanity is all in the mind...
User avatar
Diablo
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:33 am
Location: Earth 803

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Diablo »

Here is something that will make a lot of people happy...
You're right : Alan Davis's art is... WOAW ! :surprise:surprise
[spoiler] Since he first drew Betsy, I guess it's normal she comes back with him aboard but still... All the dead X-Men come back these days. I would have prefered to see Piotr, Betsy and Jean go. EVEN IF I like these characters a lot. And here we go again with the impossible death of popular comic-book characters... :( [spoiler]
Rock is alive : Atlantys. :guitar
www.atlantys.biz


:wanda :bamf :psylocke :phoenix :kylun :rogue
User avatar
Entropy
Butt Monkey
Butt Monkey
Posts: 237
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 1:23 pm

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Entropy »

mile high comics has the entire issue to read.
Dave, your creations brought joy to my life and inspired my imagination. R.I.P.

Insanity is all in the mind...
User avatar
kladyelf
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 581
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 2:46 am
Location: Australia

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by kladyelf »

Cool Paty! Danke!

um, Question on a different topic now, to everyone, this has been bugging me for a while now.

Rachel's Look.

The first time i ever *ever* saw Rachel Summers was when i got my hands on a bunch of back issues of Brit-Excalibur, she really was quite striking with the hound tattoos/branding/scars on her face - they made her look nasty and bird-of-prey-ish. As the series progressed and she changed her look the tattoo's 'disappeared' - they were always there though as she would 'twist' peoples perceptions to make her face appear as normal. Even when she became the "Mother Askani" the tattoos were there and were shown in "future flashback" things in various issues.

But now?

i haven't seen a single ish with her 'tats, and the implication is there that she just doesn't have this legacy of the horrific future that she grew up in - further proof that she is indeed a tough girl (Brit-Excal. roxxors IMHO :D - gee i hope i did that right)

So the question is, where are they? did she 'teke them off her face? (difficult, painful sounding and you *seriously* don't want to muck that up!) are they still there but hidden? (and why hide them now? - unless they clash with her current outfit) Is it a sign that her future will now no longer happen? (if so, why is she still here?) Or have they just been retconned away along with her "tough-girlness" and what we are left with is Rachel-Lite?

Do i get a no-prize?
meddle not in the affairs of ficcers for you are malleable and easily .... O_o *stares* ooh is that a cookie?

Love your enemies - It will drive them nuts!

Crazy.... but in the nicest possible way....

To Stupidityyyyy - and beyond!

*after reading the latest gory/depressing "mainstream" comic* ....*sigh* that's it, I'm packin' up and moving back to the Eighties...
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
Heh... you should...LOL... in the early days, you might even have gotten one! then so many people write in with glitches, that they only gave them out to people who saw the glitch and could fix it with a really good explanation! LOL...I don't even know if they even give them out any more...or for what. Mine, fromStan himself, is proudly framed and waiting for me tofind a space to put it on the wall! there's less wall space in this house, alas... more windows...less house...LOL...easier to keep clean, but what are we gonna do with all the stuff we had on the WALLS in Cragsmoor!!!??!!!
sigh... decisions...decisions...
I wondered about the "hound" makeup too...is it still there? or has it been retconned outta existance. The boyos want her to look "pretty" and not threatening...so they simply forget that part of her character makeup??? gee...what,? hunter mode doesn't fit the girly t and a image? Or is hound mode incompatible with the de powerization of the female that seems to pervade the industry these days. Or if you cannot depower them, make them not in control or evil or both....sigh...

I lost track of Rachel aafter her first appearance, and since we have massive gaps in our collection of X titles, I wondered about this element when Rachel came back...so does anyone out there know about it? It would be interesting to find out...

Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
Nightcrawler ZERO
Butt Monkey
Butt Monkey
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:58 pm
Location: Home= MA School= GA
Contact:

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Nightcrawler ZERO »

It's probably better that she doesn't have the hound tattoos now that she does the "Phoenix Eye" thing. The phoenix eye with the hound tattoes would pronbbly be too busy.
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
right... that is what they said about changing wanda's costume early on... then George Perez gave her a bellydancing costume with dingles and dangles... too busy...?... nah... then there was the busiest costume in the history ofmarvel... Jack of Hearts. It was so confusing they had to have dave draw the definative costume so it could be used as a guide for future artists. Come to think of it, he was probably killed so the artists wouldn't have to draw the costume..LOL... then, of course, Bendis brought him back a la rot, to help kill off the old Avengers title. sigh...
No...no... busy is a george Perez crowd scene or a Barry winsor smith crowd scene... although Barry's art is so illustrative and beautiful that you don't mind..you spend hours just looking at it and wondering if the child is MAD or what!?!
superdoop stuff is never busy... that's the perview of illustrative art. BWS is very very illustrative art...it takes your breath away it is so lovely. I have told George tohis face that he has a cluttered mind... and he laughs and agrees with me...but that is just how he is... a wonderful man.
the last really cluttered stuff I remember seeing was all the crazy webbing on Spidey that was done by one of the image guys... and for the life of me I can't remember who it was...sigh... the frustrations of getting old...romita had done the definative spidey up until then and he was very sparing with the webbing because he didn't want to clutter up the drawing with too much webbing. then this other artist came in and the art looked like someone had taken a can of spray halloween webbing and painted it black and laid it over the web areas of the book! there was so much webbing you could have wrung a pint of black ink out of each page! It was an interesting approach...but a little too busy for my taste... which is probably why I can't remember the artist's name...sigh...
DLady elf... Dave has scanned the vision of Lovliness and is gonna try to post a link for you to see it...LOL.. he is busily working on it as i type!

LOL
Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
Well...KLE, Dave's stupid Mac computer doesn't seem to be able to find this thread... I don't think he is finding the reload connections... so he is gonna post it over in cockrum's corner...or try to...LOL... goddess only knows if he can make the stupid MAC do anything. His whole format for the site is different than mine here...maybe it is just how the MAC sets it up... but I like mine better.
so we shall see if he can post the darn thing.LOL... I think he is gonna create a new thred over at CC for it...OK?
sorry we're off topic here y'all...
LOL
Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
Azur
Lubber
Lubber
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Lille, France

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Azur »

to whoever it may concern
do you people mind go and fight in some other place ? you can destroy whatever patch in Paris you want and i won't say a word but not Saint Germain, damn it, that's the comics shops quarter !
and especially the intersection of boulevard St Germain and rue St Jacques :bite
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
Awwwww... c'mon...the X folk have destroyed whole blocks of midtown NYC...Godzilla has stomped tokyo into the ground numerous times...Mayhem has occurred all over the globe...
Paris has gotta take some lumps, too... You want it to feel neglected???
LOL
Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
User avatar
Maelstrom
Lookout
Lookout
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:41 pm
Location: California, USA

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Maelstrom »

Man, has it really been two months since anyone said anything in this thread...?

Well, for 455....

Good side, of course, Alan's art. A combination of movement and rounded, organic shapes have always made his work my favorite. And it's nice to get into the Savage Land again.

Now, this is probably because I haven't been reading the series between 1989 and 2003, but when did we introduce the intelligent sauriens like those "attack/supervillian dinosaurs"? I remember the one-shot with Excalibur, when we had the "alternate versions" of Excalibur as dino-sentients, but they went back to their dimension as soon as they were done cleaning up the mess in ours. When did we get permanent dino-sentients in the Savage Land? Yeah, the antagonistic saurians seem to be "strangers in town", but what about those others in the cell with Bishop and NC, who seem to be natives?

More good things: Storm apparently being affected by the primal nature of the Savage Land. Yeah, she wasn't affected in this way when the Xmen first went there, or with the later adventure there to take out Sauron and the rest of the Savage Land "mutants", but it's a neat idea nonetheless, and it's been so long since those stories that I'm willing to work with a little "retconning" on this. ;)

And speaking of that second foray into the savage land, It was nice to see all those mutants again, even if they were just a "money shot" at the end. Nothing like unorthodox "allies" to make a story interesting. :)

Bad things: I'm... starting to get irritated with Rachel, now. :huh

Someone please tell me why people create, introduce, and keep around uber-powerful characters if they don't have believable methods to keep them in check? Yeah, I realize that Rachel could clean just about anyone's clock, and if she wasn't "turned against" the Xmen the villians would've been lizard-on-a-stick, but come ON! She put up a better fight against Emma Frost and Selene than to this dino-whatsis-telepath-whatever-guy. And I can't believe that was only because she hated the former two so much.

When Mastermind originally turned Phoenix against her teammates, it was a slow, subtle change, a seduction. It made sense. If they knew about Rachel beforehand, or if they concentrated everything on her, made it look like it took some EFFORT, damn it, it may have worked! Instead, we got a "wham-bam-you're-ours-now-ma'am", which looks suspiciously like a clumsy attempt at carrying the story from A to C.

I felt like I was watching a superhero role-playing game, and when the game master's villian attacked with his mind control, he suddenly rolled two or three critical hits in a row. Something that would never have touched Rachel suddenly overwhelmed her, just because the dice were friendly that night. Fine for an improvised game, not so fine for a planned story.

The enemy's exclamation of "I don't believe that worked!" looks more like a cop-out than anything else. Have the Xmen grown so powerful that they NEED to have a ball-and-chain to trip them up?
Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into the intake of a jet engine..... :evil
Blue_Demon94
Lookout
Lookout
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:58 am

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Blue_Demon94 »

I think they met them in Xtreme X-Men... I agree with what you said about how easy it was for them to take over her mind, it was so effortless and now... now she's magically becoming a dinosaur... kind of an odd arc...
Image
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
Hmmmm...
I figured that it had something to do with the implanted "hound" mentality thing. That somehow the telepath saurian tapped into the "hound" aspect and used it as a control mechanism...she had been controlled as a "hound"...the subliminal triggers for control were there ... waiting... but maybe it took an animal mind to locate them and use them. Obviously Emma would have used them if she could have found them... and maybe even Chuckie...but only the saurian telepath could home in on them...since they obviously control the dinosaurs... so they know where to look in the mind to trigger the control of an "animal mode" brain. if that kind of mode exists in Rachel...due to her "hound " programming, they might be able to tap into it in a way that Emma or chuckie couldn't. And Rachel would be coumpletely vunerable in that area...thus explaining her rapid and total downfall.

When you have a character as powerful as the Phoenix or Rachel, you gotta have a way to take them down. Especially if they are stupid females who can't control their powerful powers... are there any other kind??? Give a female great power and she automatically goes bonkers or breaks down or gets psychotic or whatever...And this seems to be the year where it's all the weak minded women's fault ... everywhere!!! And, with the dearth of females in creative roles in the industry, It makes ya wonder about what's going onin the biz...doesn't it? Gee...what else is new?

Claremont has always written strong women... but if mysogny is the theme of the day at Marvel... and I strongly suspect it is...simply from reading some of their storylines...Chris won't buck it...at least not openly. He'll seem to go along and clandestinely make his ladies win out in the end. At least, that has been his MO in the past.

I did find this story to be somewhat disconneced and I may have to reread it ... looking for things I might have missed the first time around. I usually don't have to do that with Claremont's stuff... he tells a very complete story usually...so I am wondering about Alan Davis's influence on the storyline here. I love his art, of course. Totally beautiful stuff. I am fust wondering how much input Davis has on the story line. I know when dave worked with Chris, Dave would offer a lot of his own storytelling expertise to enhance the finished product... which Chris gleefully used to great advantage. Chris does work well with a creative storytelling artist...and being an artist doesn't automatically mean you are a storyteller. Davis is a consumate storyteller in his own right... so how he is working with Claremont on this storyline is of paramount importance here in trying to figure out where the story is going or even HOW it is going.

Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
User avatar
Maelstrom
Lookout
Lookout
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:41 pm
Location: California, USA

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Maelstrom »

Originally posted by Paty
I figured that it had something to do with the implanted "hound" mentality thing. That somehow the telepath saurian tapped into the "hound" aspect and used it as a control mechanism...she had been controlled as a "hound"...the subliminal triggers for control were there ... waiting... but maybe it took an animal mind to locate them and use them. Obviously Emma would have used them if she could have found them... and maybe even Chuckie...but only the saurian telepath could home in on them...since they obviously control the dinosaurs... so they know where to look in the mind to trigger the control of an "animal mode" brain. if that kind of mode exists in Rachel...due to her "hound " programming, they might be able to tap into it in a way that Emma or chuckie couldn't. And Rachel would be coumpletely vunerable in that area...thus explaining her rapid and total downfall.
That makes sense to me. It would be a perfect way to explain things. I'm perfectly willing to accept Rachel's Hound programming is deep in her "reptilian" brain, and could be accessable as such. It's just... I don't get the feeling that this is what happened. Perhaps if they mentioned these pathways it would make more sense. After all, they're doing a molecular scan on her, watching her slow, self-induced change from mammal to saurian. And this telepath/animal controller seems so sophisticated, with all this hypertech at his disposal, that he should be able to realize he got in a back door.

Believe it or not, I kind of like that Rachel is turning herself into one of them: a psychosomatic change is a neat twist. After all, even humans can induce fake psychosomatic pregnancies that can fool everyone, including doctors that are too lazy to use ultrasound :whistle, until the very end. Think of what someone like Rachel, who can rearrange matter as well as the Molecule Man, is capable of.

It's just that the mechanism of getting to this is so... clumsy. When everything else works so well, things like this stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. I'm really hoping that they can give a good explanation of why she succumbed so easily. Maybe they *will* go for the "hound programming" path.

Me... I'm just getting tired of Rachel being either the saviour or the heel, and NOTHING inbetween.
Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into the intake of a jet engine..... :evil
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
Hmmm... well Rachel is a problem ... like jean/Phoenix was a problem. You have this extraordinary power..especially when controlled by a female... and WHAT do you DO with it??/ she either is powerful enough to save the day or she is vunerable in a way that almost makes her a detriment to the team. Now some of her weaknesses aren't known...so they can't be planned for. You know... if there is a chance of entrapment underground, you try not to send Storm into that situation...it wouldn't be an optimum use of her power and her claustrophobia would put the whole team at risk. With Rachel, you don't KNOW all her glitches... SHE may not even know all her glitches. but the reversion to reptile mode is not unreasonable because the human embryo passes through many form before stabilizing into human embryo form.
Tapping into her "hound" programming is the only thing I can think of for these saurians to have done what they have done... and since they couldn't know of the Hound programming, It probably surprised them to have succeeded with her where they couldn't succeed with other humans...mutant or not. she has the buttons for them to push... and their telepathy is geared to take advantage of that link... whereas other telepaths, primate telepaths might not have been able to access the triggers.
that was my best guess at the submission of Rachel so quickly...and her seming return to "hound" mode... even if she is beginning to take on a decidedly saurian look...LOL

I am wondering what other factors at Marvel are influencing some of these storylines, though... cuz I am sure there is something going on there... I just don't know exactly what. Although we might look for another shakeup there soon... if news from the west coast is what I have heard. Has anyone else heard about the altercation in the bar between a writer and a Marvel Executive???

Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
User avatar
Maelstrom
Lookout
Lookout
Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:41 pm
Location: California, USA

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Maelstrom »

An "altercation"?? An actual barroom brawl between an executive and a writer? Jesus, you're kidding! NO, I haven't heard! Tell me! I'm nosy! :evil
Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into the intake of a jet engine..... :evil
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
OK... apologies to all who read my bormer post. We have dug deeper and found out more information. The altercation, which sounded like it was between "a former Marvel writer who now works for DC..." and an Executive of the company has turned out to be a writer and exeutive from DC.
Yes, the altercation happened... but with further clarification ... speaking with the person who made the post in the first place, the truth is that it was DC people who were involved... and he doesn't want names mentioned, bu enough people saw it that sooner or later it will probably be made known who the people are.
In any event, the "altercation" news was in the middle of a discussion about Morrison... so extrapolating that morrison was the one involved was not a big leap there. the man has constantly attacked Marvel in interviews and discussions for retconning and monkeying with his wonderful stuff done at Marvel... and the mindslaves won't let up in their praise of the Planet X drek.
I admit that when I heard about the altercation, no names mentioned... the first thought that came to my mind was Morrison. Yes, I do despise the man that much. He has been negative towards Marvel from the original altercation with Quesada at San diego... which Joey is now trying to downplay as merelly a misunderstanding... and which people who heard the yelling and screaming in the hallway still aver that it was a major altercation. And rightly so, Morrison having blindsided Joey and Marvel. Morrison has taken re[eated swipes at Marvel for marching on without him.
I am so pissed with Morrison, not only for Planet X and the damage he did to the Magneto mythos, but for the damage he did to the whole Marvel X Universe, that I readily believed that he was the "former Marvel writer..." involved. Made perfect sense. Him attacking Avi Arad made perfect sense, too... it was Avi Arad who basically forced Marvel editorial into rebooting after Planet X and restoring Magneto...something it looks like they are monkeying with again...via House of M...now that Arad is back in the west and not keeping tabs on the children at Marvel. Yeah... some of them are thirty and forty year old children... but they still act like pubescent schoolboys... so children it is!

Damn... wish I could verify it was Morrison... but it wasn't. He is innocent...this time. But sooner or later he will show his spots again... He is probably angling to return to Marvel... cuz his DC books are way down on the charts and I am sure he misses the X Men prestiege and bucks. Marvel would be crazy to take him back or to ever let him in the door! But Marvel has no mind these days... it is brain dead... so it could happen... and that is probably why Joey the Q is downplaying the whole altercation at San Diego... so he won't have to look like a total fool if he lets RBM in the door again... because, it is beginning to look like he truely IS listening to the internet bullies who have moaned, griped and bulied others off the message boards in praise of their Morrigod. sigh...
Here we are... off topic again... mea culpa... Rachel and the lizard brains are more interesting than the antics of creators anyway.

Y'know... I guess I am as guilty as the mindslaves in a way. They babble on about how good their god is and I babble on about how disgustingly bad their god is... and we both miss the point a lot of the time..
The point is that comics aren't about the creators... they are about the CHARACTERS! Now, this is something I have always said...and always known.... but sometimes it gets lost when how the characters are portrayed is the result of politics... interoffice, personal, professional and industrial politics. when the desires or bias of the writers and the interoffice politics are paramount in forming how the characters are portrayed, instead of canon and an understanding of the core personalities of the characters, then things go awry... and old time, hardcore readers, who have invited these "people" into their hearts and lives for decades get realllllll upset.
When young writers who can't tell a story unless it "shakes up the status quo" or kills someone just to shock... or warps characters so you can't even recognize them any more finally do so destroy a character , it is like losing a part of your family. You have known this character... watched him or her grow, learn, mature, fight and win, fight and lose...for longer than the writer has been alive. This is a member of your family, invited into your mind and heart every month for decades. When you can no longer recognize the character or are yanked up and down like a yoyo with "good things" or 'bad things" being done with or to the character...you finally have to say "enough". You have to cut your emotional losses and bury the corpse of the character you loved... and then you grieve as you would for an actual member of your family...and then you walk away .. and you do NOT come back...cuz it just hurts too much. And ,unfortunately, that is where a lot of readers ARE at this point.
I saw that start to happen at Marvel when I worked there... I saw the beginnings of decay and couldn't do anything to stop it. So I walked away... but I didn't cut the cord... I continued to read the books for a while. When the characters i knew began to devolve into something I didn't know, I cut more and more titles until the only character I knew and followed was Mags. But what was being done to him was the veriest rollercoaster ride you ever saw. You got a publisher in that iked him, you got Age of Apocolypse... which made him a believable hero... and which they could not leave alone and are messing with to Magneot's destruction...seems they cannot leave the character alone no matter what!

Comic books, to be lasting have to be soap operas. The have to have high adventure and fights and explosions, and avant guard weapons and machinery... but they are still soap operas in that they are continuing stories of the CHARACTERS. It's the characters lives we are entwined with... and which keeps the reader coming back for more. You can only take so much shock,sex and violence...then you burn out on it. Each explosion has to be bigger thanb the last... each threat has to be worse...You can only go so far with that...then you have to tell stories about the characters. some of the young writers don't seem to be able to do that, so they fall back on shock value...again and again and again...
And the characters goet so lost and so unrecognizable that you end up talking about the creators and their foibles and adventures rather than the characters!!!
And that's wrong. Sometimes you do it because you want to boost someone you like.. sometimes you do it because you dislike what a writer is doing or has done and you want to dissect it and show others why you don't like it or what is noxious to you about the work. Readers critiquing the profferings of artists and writers is part of the game and part of the enjoyment of other creative people. Everyone has an opinion. some opinions are more informed or mature than others. And not everyone is gonna speak out. Some are just gonna watch..like a crowd at the racetrack .. waiting for the crashes. Now, some of the participants racing the cars are creators...and some are the characters. Creators come and go... but the characers remain... and need to be consistant and viable.

I noticed a lot of the formus and threads have been very quiet for a while... this one included... When a thread on an ongoing book such as Uncanny goes for two months without anyone posting...pro or con... either people are very busy or there's nothing rradical to talk about. Now...i know I have been awfully busy... what with Dave's continuing health problems... and there are days and days that go by that I just don't even get on the computer at all. It seems that when things are going well, you don't have to discuss something to enjoy it. It's when things are getting disturbing or going very wrong that one jumps up and waves their hands and says "Oh, Oh, LOOK!!!" ... or "THAT SOB did WHAT??? where? What page, what panel?" LOL...
So if we are not online griping or cajoling or soapboxing, does that mean everything is going on apace, that everything is OK? Possibly... or it may mean that ithe reader is too busy right now... or too bored... or too pissed to write anything cuz they know it will get their ass kicked off the forum...

The discussion about Rachel and why she is acting as she is... was interesting ... and I apologize for getting off the subject with stupid antics of creators.
Even I have to knock myself upside the head sometimes and remember...it's the characters that are important... and the storylines... NOT the asswipes in the biz... whose only interesting element is that they are real people instead of imaginary ones... and if someone sliced their head off, they would not be coming back for sure...which I suppose does make them interesting , sorta, since their presence or lack thereof does inflluence what happens to the characters...

Damn... this biz is sooo incestuous...convoluted... and downright frustrating...you'd think it was Hollywood. But we're on a much less imposing budget here... I mean... for Gawd's sake... it's COMIC BOOKS! I am beginning to think I'm getting too old for this stuff...

Hm...

nah...
LOL
Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
Shadow_Dancer
Butt Monkey
Butt Monkey
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:06 am
Location: Seventh Heaven

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Shadow_Dancer »

Comic books, to be lasting have to be soap operas. The have to have high adventure and fights and explosions, and avant guard weapons and machinery... but they are still soap operas in that they are continuing stories of the CHARACTERS. It's the characters lives we are entwined with... and which keeps the reader coming back for more. You can only take so much shock,sex and violence...then you burn out on it. Each explosion has to be bigger thanb the last... each threat has to be worse...You can only go so far with that...then you have to tell stories about the characters. some of the young writers don't seem to be able to do that, so they fall back on shock value...again and again and again...
Brava Paty! My thoughts exactly, and why I don't watch much television any more. Writers these days think they have to push the envelope with more and more violence sex and shock value material. It shows a lack of both creativity and maturity. What most people really crave is a good story, told well and characters they can believe in.

I personally haven't had much to say about Uncanny because I'm just enjoying it. I don't feel the need to microanalize every story (I just don't have the time). I use comics as an escape, and I follow X-Men because of the great scope of personality of it's characters, and yeah, I do know them well. I have been following Nightcrawler for years, only losing interest for a few years after Excaliber was canceled, and I think I lost interest because his character was changed from the one I knew and loved. I'm so very happy to have Kurt mostly back to the way he was. I hope it stays that way for a while.
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream." Mark Twain

Shadow Dancer's Fanfic Archive Image
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
So say we all! Dave originally made him a swashbuckling, joyous personality... in spite of his outward looks. He said Marvel had enough angry, disfunctional characters. He wanted Nighty to be easy inside his skin... at home and accepting of himself. and I think this was a good image for the character. There were a lot of kids out there who had abnormalities that used to write in and tell Dave that if Kurt could be happy and live life tothe fulest with his looks.. then
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
User avatar
Paty
Deck Swabber
Deck Swabber
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:03 am
Title: Magnetofiend
Location: Belton, SC 29627

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Paty »

:mags
Well... that was rude... it went away before I sent it!
OK... let's see...where was I?
If Kurt could live life to the fullest with his abnormal appearance, then so could THEY! Kurt apparently was a hit fromthe beginning...especially with kids with deformaties.
Dave once told me that he gave Kurt the three fingered hand because he once knew a kid who had fingers like that. I often wondered if the kid eer picked up an X book and saw his hands on a superhero...LOL I wonderedwhat he would have thought of it.

Now, I don't watch tv soap operas... never did, really... WEll... Dark Shadows when I was in highschool...LOL... I would run home every day to catch Barnabus the vampire whom I thought was just FINE! LOL...didn't care for the werewolf guy...he was just too smarmy... Barnabas had class! But when the werewolf guy became more prominent, I stopped watching the series. PTUI don't like smarmy males... maybe that's why I don't like Gambit...he's smarmy, too...
but i digress... LOL... I never really got hooked on soap operas on tv... My continuing drama came in books and comic books. Elric of Melnibone, The Ring trilogy, the andre Norton Witchworld series, Chelsea quinn Yarbrough's Saint Germain series, The Doc Savage series reprinted from the thirties pulps by Bantan...and, of course, comics. Great fantasy escape literature. as a teen, I rode around in weird costumes on my horse...as an adult, I became a volunteer firefighter... sometimes one's fantasy life escapes into one's real life... if you are very lucky... or if you really work at it!!! LOL
But the story is all... the characters are all.. That's what the whole thing is about.. and I think the modern "creators" have either lost sight of this or never knew it in the first place. It seems that all they want to do is be big shots...push the characters around any way they WANT to. They don't seem to understand that these characters are gems... carefully faceted and polished by other writers whose talent is much greater than theirs. they don't study that storytelling and learn from it... they poohpooh it.and say that they are better...yes, "more cutting edge" . and they are not better... they are stupid children playing with gems in the pigpens of their minds...building mud castles that they want us to believe are grand mansions. they are sullying the gems and sometimes, losing them entirely intheir muddied attempts at storytelling.
One cannot fault children from playing... I blame the cartakers... the editorial and management of Marvel... for allowing children to destroy what was once the crown jewels of comicdom. I don't care if these young asswipes think they are the "princes" of comicdom... they shouldn't be allowed to play with the crown jewels until they are mature enough to understand their beauty and value. they should not be allowed to petulantly destroy what others value so highly.
There are people, myself included, whohave wept at the rampant destruction that has become the hallmark of Marvel... all in the name of "cutting edge". which is, of course, the veriest bullshit. Readers are leaving in droves... and Marvel management doesn't have a clue as to why.
Why is because the demographic of audience has changed...and the children don't want to accept this fact...so they blindly run after the ones who are yelling the looudest... on the internet...and are heading straight for a rather large cliff. when all the older readers get disgusted enough to leave, the ground is gonna fall out from under them, I fear.
Meanwhile, the characters suffer from lack of decent storyteling and immature understanding of the genre. when the editors are younger and less experienced than the writers, you are gonna have chaos...cuz the editorial staff is the quality control...and at marvel, it doesn't exist... which is why you are seeing a proliferation of drek posing as "cutting edge" storytelling...
Sorry...it is neither 'cutting edge" nor storytelling. when you see someone as talented as Claremont... someone who created the Universe that these yoyos are gleefully dismantling...treated not as a revered storyteller to learn from and emulate, treated as "old hat" and someone to yank the rug out from under, well... then you know there is something dreadfully wrong.
I read Chris's books and enjoy them. I read a couple of other books and enjoy them. But when they finally push chris out and destroy Magneto again, I will leave.. this time probably for good. One can only stand so much torture inflicted on characters you love.
Cuz...it is STILL about the characters... who are as real as any flesh and blood person on this globe. People live on in literature and media long after they are gone. They influence lives and change the world. so do literary characters. they have a life of their own within the world consciousness. They are as alive and vital and able to influence people as any real human that ever existed... and better than some who existed. they should uplift and point the way to a higher plane...not grovel in the filth and mud. I do not let morally bankrupt and filthy superheroes into MY mindhouse...not unless they clean themselves up reallll fast. And I think I am not alone...hell... I KNOW I am not alone in that assessment.

Oh, well... we can rant and rave but nothing changes...except for the worst. I like Excalibur and Uncanny... but then i like to read real stories that it takes more than two months to build and tell...I read masters... not the dregs of novices...at least when I can. I still follow the CHARACTERS...until I can no longer stomach what is being done with them.

Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
Darkholme
Bilge Rat
Bilge Rat
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 12:03 am
Location: Charles Town, WV
Contact:

Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Post by Darkholme »

I split the news from Wizard World East into its own thread and moved it to the main forum since it's covering more than Uncanny now.
Post Reply