Uncanny X-Men General Discussion Reload

Paty · Post by **Paty** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:04 pm

:mags
Yeah, diablo... I'll second that. for the first time in literally years, the X books are fun and exciting to read!
Just got the latest Uncanny... I think it is an advance copy...my shop knows my proclivities...LOL...and that Alan Davis double page spread with everyone doing the pirate thing is wonderful!
and I do like the new nightcrawler series so far. the storyline is unpreposessing and somewhat predictable so far, but the art is verrrrrry nice!

Paty
:mags

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:44 am

Am I the only one that remembers Courtney Ross is DEAD? She was killed by Sat-Yr-9 who then took her place. Sat-Yr-9 was never brought to justice though...

Just had a look at the preview pages of Uncanny X-Men #451 over at Newsarama...[spoiler]someone claimed that it was stupid of Storm to send the team's 'weakest' member to deal with lil miz Wolvie clone...nice to see him make sport of her...hope he doesn't get handed his blue fuzzy tail...[/spoiler]

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:31 pm

Originally posted by Nandireya
Am I the only one that remembers Courtney Ross is DEAD? She was killed by Sat-Yr-9 who then took her place. Sat-Yr-9 was never brought to justice though...

Thank GOD! I was wondering if I'd gone crazy! Yes, yes, YES! She died in Excalibur not six issues after she was introduced, and she was replaced with Sat-Yr-9 (her evil twin Skippette?). And the last I knew, she was sort of running Viper (man, THAT was in the mid 90s. Tells you how up to date I am on these things....) Which makes me wonder why Viper was going against her, unless it was some sort of copyright infringement thing between the two of them?

Also, continuity kind of took a sidestep for me at the end of that issue. It sure looked like Sage was wielding a sniper rifle and seeing the trio through the scope. [spoiler] That's a mighty cumbersome thing to be taking photos with, because now we see her looking at photos in the library instead. Or did she already have the photos on hand, and just didn't bother shooting the terrible trio when she had the chance? Maybe she wouldn't be able to take down Sebastian, but Viper and "Coutney" would have been dead meat. Why go to the trouble of setting up a great sniping angle if you aren't going to shoot?!

And then there are those costumes in the bar. "Wolvette" is wearing Fang's costume?? When was Fang ever on Earth? I only saw him as part of Lilandra's Praetorian Guard a couple times, both off world, and then he done got afflicted with a serious case of dead. (Used as a host body for the brood; what a horrid way to go....) Cerise was seen on Earth as part of Excalibur, so I can easily see her costume being imitated, but Fang...? Will it be revealed that Ms. W has some sort of mental link or common memories with Logan, and that's how she "saw" the costume? Maybe she wore it as a "beacon" for the Xmen to follow, since only they would recognize it for what it really is? Of course, her reaction to Rachel blows THAT little theory out of the water....[/spoiler]

Still, continuity hiccups aside, I MUCH prefer this issue to the previous two. Those were just disjointed excuses for some interesting superpower stunts. (Don't even get me started on the "casually threaten a world power with a nuclear device" thing. Viper should have the entire world's population of government sanctioned superheroes after her now...) You could have just removed them entirely without any "damage" to the storyline. (It's not like Ororo hasn't mentioned her "inexplicably violent" cold rage before. Didn't this all happen in the 80s with the Morlocks?)

EDIT: [spoiler] According to one post on Newsarama, Wolverine wore that "Fang" costume back after the X-Men returned to earth. It was featured in Iron Fist 15 and the beginning of X-Men 109. I have no idea what happened in Iron Fist, but I remember that Wolverine was wearing Fang's costume because his got eliminated. (always gave me visions of a naked Fang running around wearing an alien fig leaf and a blush....)

But, still, how much time would have passed between when they got back to Earth and when Wolvie changed? A few hours? He didn't exactly like the costume: Fang was skinnier than Logan, and he complained it was too tight. He'd have changed it the second he got back....[/spoiler]

Paty · Post by **Paty** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:42 pm

:mags
Haw...haw...haw...
Wolvie didn't not like the costume... Byrne didn't like having to draw all those little feeth.
so he basically redesigned by taking off the teeth and giving wolvie a matching mask and VOILA the brown and gold costume Byrne was so famous for... which was merely reworking Dave's original design.
We all noticed it and commented on it at the time and laughed about it. Byrne not wanting to do the work to put in all those little teeth...heh...byrne did as little work as possible for his money. does anyone remember the snowbird fighting sasquach in a blinding snowstorm? A whole story full of nothing byt swirling snow and word balloons! The Whiteout issue I believe it is called. Then there was the black "bottom of the sea" issue with Namor...

Yeah... I thought I remembered fang's costume showing up on earth too... but couldn't check it out because all those books are still packed...sigh...
but in any event... you know what "fanatics" are like.... they research their faves! LOL That esoteric and special costumes show up at a club such as this would be de rigeur... and the more unknown or special the costume, the better. Look at costume parades in some of the larger cons.
LOL
Paty
:mags

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:18 pm

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the Previews. Man how funny is that? Interesting tidbit Paty about Byrne and Fang's costume. Never thought of that really. Thanks!

The cover art of 451 is certainly pleasing to this X fan. A young girl taking down Wolverine! Priceless!! I'm glad they decided to release both 450 and 451 in the same month!! YAY!

Ya, I had a bit of too much coffee this morning.

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:22 pm

Well... I really like Davis and all... but I rather hope that they'll start making story arcs that last more than two episodes. The resolution of this "x-23" bit seemed contrived to me. I like having stories resolve, but a steady diet of "two issue we're done" isn't all that satisfying to me....

Oh, sure, we've got this Hellfire Club thing in the background, with Sage apparently going undercover again, and that's good. It's been hiding underneath everything for two or three episodes by now. But aside from it just "being there" in the background, it isn't directly affecting the Uncanny universe in any way. It'd be nice for some other evidence of this "Hellfire Ascendent" (or whatever it is) arc in the rest of the story, seen by someone else but Sage. So far, she's literally our only link.

And does *anyone* know what was with that Jamie cameo a few issues ago? If they don't return to it in some fashion this year, I'm tossin' a penalty flag....

Diablo · Post by **Diablo** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:32 pm

Courtney Ross is still Sat-Yr 9 I think. But what happened to her minions ? That's a mystery... Perhap's they're Hellfire Club's new guards now ??

I like the idea that Jamie "I'm happy" Braddock is somewhere watching everybody. And I'm not in a hurry of finding what he really wants. I like mystery and these past years, it seemed Claremont wanted to end all his sub-plots too fast -like the Destiny diaries. All of a sudden, it was over...

I hope we'll one day meet Vargas again -he's Psylocke's killer after all. We know he's alive since he appeared in X-Men : The End, working with Xavier.

I'm happy Uncanny is THIS great. With Chuck's departure, I was kinda depressed for the X-teams.
I, too, hope the stories will be longer next time. Perhap's they're short because Alan Davis draws slowly, don't you think ?

Panz · Post by **Panz** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:34 pm

These mini"arc-ettes" are not too cool with me either. I like really complex long running plots and involved stories. I hope that whoever is behind these mini tales doesn't plan on continuing with them in the future. I generally like Claremonts writing, but this has been out of character and much too fast for my tastes. Tho' i don't imagine that this is what Chris wants either. :/

Edit : And last I heard Diablo, Claremont had plans for Vargie , tho' with what I've heard about editing as it is that could have changed.

The Drastic Spastic · Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:23 am

Alan Davis doesn't draw slowly!

Remember when he was drawing and writing both books and while the quality did suffer a bit, they both came out on time?

Paty · Post by **Paty** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:45 am

:mags
Hmmm...
Well...I would really like to know why every two issues we have a different artist when Alan Davis is supposed to be the regular artist on the book! I mean... does he have other committments? Is he cronically behind schedule? this would argue a slowdown in production. Trust me on this, as you get older, it is harder to keep up the pace established in your youth. This is something a lot of younger people don't consider...but beileve me, it is a real concern for the aging artist. Writing is easier. But art takes a lot of vey physical effort. It is, believe it or not, harder to do as you get older. The long hours at the drawing board that didn't bother you when young, turn you creaky in no time flat when you get older... and you cannot spend as much time bent over the board as you used to.
sometimes, like with Dave, disease hampers you ability to draw. Dve can only sit at a draawing board for so long...then he has to elevate his feet by sitting with hem above his heart level ...or they collect water in the cells... which cuts off the blood flow tothe extremity. It is all a part of diabetes and cellulitis... but it really cuts into his time drawing!
Other problems crop up when youget older,too... bad eyesight, loss of muscle control...which, if you are pencilling, youcan sorta fudge on... but not if you are inking! Or coloring for reproduction...which doesn't happen much any more due to computers..alas.. computer coloring is OK for some things... but there is nothing like good watercolor technique for life in coloring. some of the modern computer coloring looks like it has been done with mud.PTUI! all monochrome and pastel! PTUI!! PTUI!!!
Dead, dull, boring!!! Almost as bad as straight airbrushing...FAUGH!
so if Alan Davis is anywhere near the big 50...he is probably slowing down a bit in his output. If he has family or kids, he wants to interact with them, so that takes time from drwing, too...maybe he can only put out a certain amount of work at one time and the two story arcs give him a break and a head start on the issues he wants to do. Or maybe there are reasons that we have no way of even considering...like political maneuvering at the company...which we know has scuttled more ships than ti has floated.
You can be sure that marvel won't let Claremont alone...there is enough professional jealousy there to choke a bull moose. It is not that Chris can't write...it's that most of the time these days, they won't LET him! I think they are afraid that he'll take off again on an eighteen year run and leave them in the dust... and they won't do anything to help that to happen, you can be sure! No hype for his projects..no leeway on storylines... other creators glomming off his characters...I mean...lookit what has been announced for next year...The Family of M! Uh huh... who is that, we wonders...Isn't he supposed to be Chris's? You can bet that Bendis, who is obviously a little Morrison wannabe is gonna make Mags EEEEEVIL again. If that happens, I am sooooooo gone! I can't take another abomination like Planet X!
I am told that the Avengers wrapup due out on Wednesday has Mags showing up IN COSTUME!!! to glom off Wanda..or should I say, brainwashed Dark Wanda!? This crap is so bogus it isn't even vaguely funny.
Is there gonna be anything from the original Marvel left? If now? Marvel is gonna lose it's oldtime audience...along with their merchandising bucks...and I don't know if it can survive that. I guess we'll just wait and see...but all this two story arc crap bodes not well.
sigh...
Paty
:mags

Panz · Post by **Panz** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:18 am

While I don't want to set forth untruths, and I don't know at all how busy Chris is at this time, I would guess that you're right Paty. This isn't his usual style and I KNOW that he is capable of great things. This short vignette style isn't at all satisfying. I don't get a chance to chat on the boards like I used to and I haven't heard abnything From Claremont in months, but this is like "All different all new Chris Claremont lite"

Wussup with that???? give the man a keyboard and a hot cup of coffee and let him tell stories GRRRRRRR!!!! Panz is getting very vexed

I need to catch up with what is going on but the "family of M" is already giving me a bad taste. But I think part of it is due to Davis not being quit the kid that he used to be.

This is depressing:(

I want REAL stories dammit! If I need to storm the halls of M and chase everyone around with a rolled up news paper so that we get some real stories, I guess I do

(Hey Chris, if you want a pint sized near sighted mad Irish chick to come beat anyone who isn't down with your writing, drop me a line

)

Will you guys come visit me in jail???:LOL

Diablo · Post by **Diablo** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:33 pm

Thank you for the news about Vargas Panz. I really hope we'll see this cool villain again.

For Magnus perhap's appearing in New Avengers, let's wait and see. Bendis isn't my favourite writer at all, but he can produce good comics from time to time. I just hope, like you Paty, that Wanda and Magneto won't be shown as "evil".
It would be so stupid.

Concerning Chris's style, I'm so happy he found the early Excalibur mood again, I rather like it.
And just remember the first Excalibur series often had two-parters as stories.

Paty · Post by **Paty** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:22 pm

:mags
Oh, don't get me wrong. I love what Chris is doing in Excalibur! Iwish they would leave him and Magneto alone so he can DO it.
As for Wanda being eeeevil...they apparently have already done it. Seems she's responsible for the recent deaths in Avengers to the point that Dr. Strange mindwiped her...although I would argue that is not within his perview. Nor is taking away her mutant powers...especially if, as I understand it, they established they are not based in true magick...but rather merely a mutant power to affect probabilities...which, by the way, is one of the principles of real magick. LOL... stupid children...they know nothing and think they know so much.

It's a royal mess right now...all over Marvel. They are killing off the older characters ... even if they are popular! They are trashing the ones they don't kill or who are already dead...like Gwen Stacey. someone told me that Spidey is now a giant spider? c'mon... they sorta DID that back in the seventies...Gil Kane drew the story! Pete went around with extra arms and legs for entirely too long then, too... sigh..don't these yoyyos have ANY original ideas to use with the tried and true characters? NO? my, my, my...

Panz, you won't be alone in that jail cell...I got a few choice people at Marvel that I would like to have WORDS with. the words are ...kill, maim... brutalize...stomp into the concrete... so stand in line,kiddo...you can have bloody seconds...
Paty
:mags

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:22 pm

Paty, killing off older characters is nothing more than a ploy to sell books. I'm even surprised they have been killing them off. But the beauty of comics is they can come back. Colossus was proof of that. They brought Mags back from Morrison's horrible affliction known as, Planet X. :ick Now they want to ruin Wanda? Will they bring back an evil Mags eventually down the line? I certainly hope not!

Diablo · Post by **Diablo** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:17 pm

SPOILERS...

Issue#452 : we were waiting for this fight between the White Queen and Rachel.
It's strange... Rachel seems to accept Emma after all. I would have liked more tension, a big and totally unreasonable brawl, with hard consequences.

On the other hand, I'm happy Selene is back, and to see Courtney-Sat-Yr 9 playing the "highest card drawn" game again (just like in Excalibur) was highly enjoyable !

Finally... Huh ?? What is happening with Bishop ?? Mind-controlled ?? Or a secret between him and Sage ?:smirk

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:49 am

Just saw the preview pages for the next issue...can anyone tell me [spoiler]how the hell Kurt recovered quicker than the guy with the much touted healing factor...and why was Ororo fawning all over that self-same guy who's supposed to be pretty much unkillable? Does she know something the others don't?[/spoiler]

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:01 pm

I just read issue 452... and it made me feel a bit... uncomfortable.

[spoiler]Yes, I know that the way women fight is more on the level of sniping and emotional damage than straight out physical bashing... and in that way, yes, I agree that a mental battle would be fought with emotional imagery rather than physical imagery. It's an interesting contrast to Xaveir and Farouk's battle waaaaay back when in the 70s.

But, guys... this was painful to watch for me. That psionic battle was an all-out humiliation-fest. And who won? The lady with no conscience; the absolute bitch who could gleefully rub her misdoings in her opponent's face. I gotcher daaaaad! I gotcher daaaaad! We're cheating on your moooom! Neener neener neeeeeener! Gee, the most reprehensable behavior gained Emma the upper hand. That left me feeling all warm and fuzzy....

And at the end of this, Rachel is supposed to just "see the light" that she's been childish and Emma is just trying to make her stronger? Um... this... isn't working for me.

Lemme try and work this out. When Rachel was first seen in Days of Future Past (UXM 141-ish), we didn't get much of her. She was a side character, and she was kind of afraid of everything that went on around her. But it made sense that she was afraid. She wasn't a professional combatant. I was cool with that. In fact, it was kind of refreshing to see that reaction.

In the mid-80s, we got her back as a main character with the Xmen, but she was emotionally unstable, and even a bit whiny. This instability didn't make her the most sympathetic character in the world, but it was different, it was understandable (if not likable), and consistant.

In Excalibur, she came back as a more mature, confidant woman. Which may have been because they didn't want anyone to "show up" Capt. Britain as the primary asshole of the comic, but in any case, I felt she was drawn (literally and figuratively) as a better character. She was maturing. She still had a hot temper (make your own redhead joke here), but was developing in several ways.

So why has Marvel chosen to "regress" her back to her unstable, borderline-whiny days, planting her squarely between useful team member and callow youth? Yes, seeing her dad and Emma together is going to torque her something awful, but the "immaturity" imagery is a bit much, and the fact that she just can't deal with it invalidates all the character growth she went through with in Excalibur.

By this time, after all the cosmic stuff she's gone through, and after way too many alternate timelines, what are the odds that she might coldly write off her dad as something that never happened in her line, and therefore cut him and Emma off completely? Give them such a cold shoulder that they'd get frostbite? That seems like an emotionally safer response for someone in a wartime situation (and certainly one that Emma would agree with). Hell, when she first found her way to this timeline, she figured out this wasn't "her" past after seeing Storm in her "punk" mode.

So we've got a personality retrograde, or even a cypher of other portrayals, which make her more childish. And a fight with your main villainess, who in your mind is responsible for replacing your mom. (And responsible for that whole ugly "hellfire/Dark Pheonix" thingy, too.) And she LOSES that fight to Emma, who simply cannot be out-bitched by anything known to man, and it makes her more likely to trust and obey that victor? As inconsistant as her personality is, this fight was internally inconsistant with its own inconsistant character protrayal! My head hurts! [/spoiler]

Diablo · Post by **Diablo** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:01 pm

I agree.
Rachel seemed so mature in Excalibur, more than ten years ago and now she's just like... a child.

kladyelf · Post by **kladyelf** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:25 am

*points upward* Yeah, i'm with Mael here, even though Kurt is his usual drool-worthy self, Ray isn't, i mean, with all that cosmic phoenix thing she used to have you'd think that she'd have learned a thing or two ... unless she's biding her time ... and getting ready to drop a psychic anvil on her head... i mean in an earlier issue (I forget the number) when they were playing baseball there was at the very least a *hint* that Rachel could tackle Emma? (who was a lot better in GenX believe me!)

*random thought*
hey Paty, that "Vision of Loveliness" that you mentioned earlier, do you still have it? I know that most of your stuff is probably packed away (especially if you're anything like me with unpacking,

) and there was mention of a flood - but do you think you could see clear to putting it up online? i think we could all do with a laugh!

CurlyyHairGirl · Post by **CurlyyHairGirl** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:16 am

I'm extremely curious to see what's going on with 'Ro and Logan, especially reading 453 and the preview of 455 at Pop Culture Shock, and everyones reactions to "who's with who?"

Diablo · Post by **Diablo** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:50 am

In X-Men:the End -a possible X-future by Chris Claremont, Logan and Ororo are together.
As for Nightcrawler... not with Rachel but with Kymri. -a blue pirate princess from an alternate timeline -see Excalibur, vol.1 , #16-17. They even have two children.

So, if Claremont is following the events he has invented in X-Men : the end, we know what to expect.

bluefooted · Post by **bluefooted** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:11 pm

Does anyone know when Alan Davis returns? I'm just curious. His panels are really interesting to look at - always chock full o' mutant-goodness.

I'm actually surprised that I really like Park's work, too, though. So I guess I'm conflicted

His Kurt is pretty to look at and I even found Logan slightly attractive *gasp* Alan's characters have more... character, however, even if they're not really handsome.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:47 pm

... but wasn't Kymri not merely a blue skinned person from another dimension, but KURT'S female alternate? (Kurt if born female.... and a pirate) that's like... dating your twin.... but i guess CC wrote that, so whatever...

Winged Outlaw · Post by **Winged Outlaw** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:00 pm

Originally posted by Bamfette
... but wasn't Kymri not merely a blue skinned person from another dimension, but KURT'S female alternate? (Kurt if born female.... and a pirate) that's like... dating your twin.... but i guess CC wrote that, so whatever...

Well in that case I don’t think its so much incest as it is masturbation. Y’know, if you were a hermaphrodite at least. So thanks Chris, for making us have to think about such things

CurlyyHairGirl · Post by **CurlyyHairGirl** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:51 pm

Now that's a stubborn piece of jerky to chew on, ain't it?

Well. he has his reasons.

originally posted by bluefooted
Alan's characters have more... character, however, even if they're not really handsome.

*GASP!!!*:o But Alan is teh MASTER!!!