Astonishing X-Men General Discussion

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Astonishing X-Men General Discussion

Post by The Drastic Spastic » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:16 pm

Second issue was much better than the first.

I loved that [spoiler]relationship with the bat[/spoiler] line! The interaction between Kitty and Emma. Everything about Beast except how he was drawn. Vaguely wondering about where it's going, but I'm pretty much just reading for the dialogue I think.
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Post by Crawler » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:23 pm

I thought that there were some very nice looking Beast panels this issue. Maybe I'm just getting used to it, or maybe Cassaday has an easier time drawing him in action.

I liked him this ish. :D

And his little dilemma is already really interesting. In principle, he's totally against the "cure"...but he's still this big blue cat/cookie monster thing...

And was his cat transformation ever explained as a secondary mutation or just a step further on his first one?
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Post by KurtnMeggan » Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:02 am

I'd have to reread X-Treme #3 to see exactly, but I seem to recall it as having been a secondary mutation, like Emma's.
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Post by Jeremys Iron » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:13 am

This series has been great so far. I've never been a big fan of Whedon but he is a good writer and I'm genuinely intrigue by the story. There are so many amazing philosophical questions that can be raised around the idea of the mutant gene as a disease that can be cured that I dare not get my hopes up. What is disease? Is it any unwanted physical or mental condition? Is it deviation from species normal functioning? How do you define species normal functioning? If you can change a persons genes, should you? If our genetic makeup is important shouldn't we ensure that it is the best it possibly can be and conversely if genes aren't important then why does it matter if we change them?

Now I don't expect much of that to be addressed but that was some of what came to my mind when I read about what the doctor has supposedly discovered and I'm so excited to see where this is headed. Plus we got this fabulous art by Cassaday, who really is just the MAN! I've been blown away by the beauty of some of his panels and the cover to issue #2, stunning. :love The next time I've got any extra money I am definitely going out to buy Planetary to get me some more John Cassaday goodness! :D

This is one series that has definitely lived up to the hype (well so far at least ;)).
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Post by CurlyyHairGirl » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:40 am

I think that so far, AXM is pretty good, the art is great and so is the dialog.

I wanna know what Beast's deal is [spoiler]Especially when he talks to the doctor about if the cure works. The whole attitude I got from that, was that he wanted the cure for himself to be normal again.[/spoiler]

I can't wait for the next ish.
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Astonishing #3!

Post by Tracker » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:48 am

ARRRGH! I agree with Beast [spoiler]Can't they leave Jean alone?? If this is a way to bring her back...I'm gonna go ballistic! I thought she HAD to die to save the future.[/spoiler]

Grrr:mad

I really liked the comment Emma made to Cyclops [spoiler]saying that Kitty thought she (Frost) was controlling all that he said. Made sense when you consider ish #2's cover.[/spoiler]

The humour is good too, [spoiler]Logan lounging on the purple teddy bear kept me giggling though the whole scene. Especially when he's told to drink beer and avoid Hank.[/spoiler]

But does anyone else wish that we could have a plot line that didn't involve [spoiler]aliens? I love Lockheed and all...but jeez.[/spoiler]

All in all though a good ish.:D
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Post by KurtnMeggan » Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:04 am

I liked this third issue a lot. I'm very happy with the last two issues of this series and have a lot of hope for the direction Whedon is taking this team in.
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Post by Tracker » Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:10 am

Hey, what happened to the spoiler tags:?
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Post by SmoothBamf » Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:53 pm

Jean has to come back it's what the phoinx does you know rising from the ashes and all that. I'm not saying I'm completely happy about it but if it doesn't happen now it will undoubtedly happen in the near future and I like the Whedon way is telling the story so far I'll what to pass judgement untill it's done

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Post by Bamfette » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:18 am

Originally posted by Tracker
Hey, what happened to the spoiler tags:?
they were an addon to the forum, and when we upgraded to XMB 1.9, all our files by necessity were overwritten, and we lost all out 'hacks' including the spoiler tags. see here:

http://nightscrawlers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=4431

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Post by msgt » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:32 pm

Astonishing X-men is my favorite X-book right now. I really like Whedon's style and I enjoy the pacing a lot. He definitey is good at characterization. He also does drama really well.

I've enjoyed the tension between Cyke and Wolverine, Beast and Wolverine, and Emma and Kitty.

I also like that Whedon does refer to past continuity without the story getting sucked up by it. I loved the part where Beast in the last issue talks about what Cassandra Nova said to him.

What does everyone think about the new member that is supposed to return... this classic character? Is it Jean? There was that mile high preview page that got took down with the Phoenix on it.

There were a lot of speculation on internet forums about Colossus, but seeing as he was creamated I don't see him returning.

What does everyone think of Ord. I have to say I was a bit surprised Whedon started out his run with a villian that is alien.

I wonder what his connection could be with the X-men. He's a green alien. That metal part of his mask hides his nose. If he doesn't have a nose maybe he could be D'Bari or a species of D'Bari (now I'm just heavily speculating).

All in all Whedon is good and he keeps us talking. One thing I loved about Grant Morrison's run was that he gave plenty of things for fans to discuss, debate, and speculate over.

I think Whedon will much do the same.

He writes Kitty Pryde very well. I am glad she is on this team.

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Astonishing #4

Post by Tracker » Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:58 am

So what do you all thing about [spoiler]Colossus[/spoiler] returning?

Personally, I think the explaination for this should be good. I love how this book is being written and where it's going so far.
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Post by Northstars Love » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:10 am

Originally posted by Tracker
So what do you all thing about [spoiler]Colossus[/spoiler] returning?

Personally, I think the explaination for this should be good. I love how this book is being written and where it's going so far.

It better be a good explanation otherwise how does someone that has been [spoiler]cremated come back from the dead? A clone perhaps?[/spoiler] :? I haven't read the issue but to hear this I'm excited about it to.


Did anyone think it was going to be [spoiler]Jean Grey[/spoiler] coming back? I did. :oops:

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Post by Crawler » Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:20 pm

I'm so glad Jean's not back yet.

Also glad to see the character that returned return. I believe the issue implies that he was never cremated and possibly never dead. Not that hard to believe, really, since no one stays with the body of their dead friend the whole time until they're cremated.
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Post by Northstars Love » Thu Aug 26, 2004 7:23 pm

What would really piss me off tho would be [spoiler]if this Colossus was a clone. Not the real one. The real one died years ago but a clone was created by...?[/spoiler] This I would not put pass future writers. :/

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Post by Shadywhisk » Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:46 pm

^^^ I agree completely! [spoiler]Clones[/spoiler] stink!

Originally posted by msgt
He writes Kitty Pryde very well. I am glad she is on this team.
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I am so glad that she is back on a team and am OVERJOYED that she is being written so well by someone who really appreciates her character. :)
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Post by msgt » Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:51 am

[spoiler] Apparentely the Phoenix page was a ruse. Marvel.com labels the pic "Return of Phoenix Ruse" in their wallpaper section.

I like Colossus, so I'm not upset that he is back. However some x-men should probably stay dead.

Since Jean is Phoenix she makes the most sense, to me, to come back.

Though she seems to be set to come back in Feb. with Greg Pak writing the Phoenix Endsong Mini. He did say the mini was launching out of Astonishing.

Still, Cyke and Beast seem to think that Benetech was using Jean's body? So what is that about I wonder..

Or was it just Cyke thinking Beast was talking about Jean but it was Peter? It still seemed to me that Cyke was expecting to find Jean in there.

Anyhow the issue was good but we still got more questions than answers.

I want to know what the deal with Ord is. I do like the pacing of the story, but I really thought it would have picked up more this last issue.

The scenes with Kitty and Colossus were really good.

John Cassady is an amazing artist.

Mike[/spoiler]

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Post by Dezzy Dragon » Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:16 am

I can’t help but think about the Legacy virus now. I’m wondering if this so called cure has something to do with it. Would it be just perfectly horrible if the “cure” was a variation of the virus that stopped your mutant powers until such and such time then it comes out and boom your dead? Remember this is just speculation on my part.

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Post by Tracker » Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:52 am

Originally posted by Dezzy Dragon
I can’t help but think about the Legacy virus now. I’m wondering if this so called cure has something to do with it.
I was thinking the same thing....because, really...if this is truely a "cure", then it takes away from the premise of the X-Men as a whole.

In many ways, they are a type of tragic hero. They can't help what they are, but they are trying to make the most of it by helping humanity. What kind of hero could we have if they could just call it quits? Part of what makes a hero IMHO, are the sacrifices they are called on to make. Take that away, and the characters are diminished.
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Post by Paty » Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:20 am

:mags
I dunno... maybe having a choice is the geater complexity. If you are born with a specific situation...powers, social standing, race, whatever...and you cannot change that situation, then how you work within it's limitations can define your heroism or villainy. but if you CAN change the situation... how does that affet your choices?

Can the Beast, for example, do more good as a human looking person rather than a beastial one? Certainly he would be more accepted by humanity at large! He might have a more rich personal life associating with humanity as well as mutants ...and even have romantic encounters that seem impossible to him now. Henry McCoy is a social animal...no pun intended. As a furry blue person, his interaction with humans is a limited one simply because humans, as a general rule, look at anything so radically different from themselves as threatening. while he might have some who are willing to interact with him...especially after getting to know him as an intelligent and gentle person...most will regard him with fear and horror...or even hate! If he appeared more human.. as he did in the early days of the X Men, albeit with huge hands and feet, but still very human looking... he could interact with humanity at large in a more positive manner.

Would Kurt choose to lose his blue furriness if he had to lose his teleporting ability with it? Hank's intellect isn't necessarily part of his mutation...his agility and strength is. Hank's intellect could remain intact and he could function as a doctor/scientist within society better as a normal looking person. But Nighty's power to teleport may be an intrinsic part of his personality...so losing that, simply to become more human looking might not be as good for him as it could be for Hank.

The choice becomes more difficult for some characters than for others. and if the "cure" meant losing your powers...to return to "humanity"... would you want to do that? Storm looks human enough...but would she want to give up the freedom of the skies? Would Warren become human looking if it meant losing his wings and his ability to soar?

Then you have the complexity of i IF the cure works...would it be forced on a young mutant once their powers manifested? If a majority of humans voted to make it a law that all mutants were to be "cured" of the dreadful mutant disease... then how could you justify taking away the joy of flight from someone... or the power to heal with a touch... or the wonder of touching other minds... or the strength of maniipulating great energies that could do wondrous things for humankind as well as mutant kind! Who would choose? If you take away the ability to choose you merely make a slave of the one the choice has been taken away from. You FORCE them into being something they aren't... or you FORCE them to be something less than what they could be.

I don't necerssarily think the "cure" is a negation of the X Men... I think it is a complication. The coming war between mutants and humans would be the one over CHOICE. right now, mutants are born and develop their powers at puberty...or sometimes earlier. they have no choice in being what they are. It's like you have little or no choice in your sex or race or ethnic origin. If , when you are an adult, you could choose...that would be a wonderfulthing. BUT, would you want someone to choose FOR you when you were still a child? Maybe choose something...for your own good... that would completely negate your whole psyche? ..your whole raison d'etre? If the "cure' were made law you could not escape it. Once it is done it is done. would you wish to have someone else making those decisions FOR you...as if you had no say in the rest of your life? And would you want that someone to be the GOVERNMENT???

This is the complexity of what this"cure" implies. It is the age old battle of personal choice vs assimiliation into group. would you prefer to soar and be shunned by mere humans or have your wings cut off and be permanently grounded but accepted by society? What would you do if you have the choice? and, believe me...the rest of humanity hates someone to have a choice they don't have! So they would take away that choice and force you to be just like them!

and you know something? there is one way to spell slavery...NO CHOICE!

It is a sort of reverse Genosha. The mutates had no choice in being mutated and becoming the slaves of the magistrates. Here, if the "cure" is real and forced on young mutants, they will have no choice in becoming mutants...and if mutation is a step forward in the evolutionary chain...then you are, through fear of what is different, destroying your future!

This "cure" raises many interesting pathways for stories...especially if it is a permanent 'cure"...which we don't know yet, do we? It may seem permanent, but maybe it will wear off in time..or maybe in time it will kill the recipient...who knows? It's like the breakthrough of a miracle drug theat seems to have no side effects...and twenty years down the road you find out that children born within the treatment boundries of the miracle drug usage are sterile! But you didn't know that was a side effect until those children grew up and tried tohave children of their own and THEN found out that because their parents were treated with this drug, THEY were sterile!

Verrrrrry interesting possibilities here. Do I trust Marvel touse this plot device well or even responsibly? Hell, NO!


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Astonishing X-Men General Discussion

Post by Nightcrawler ZERO » Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:01 pm

So Paty- does Dave know who came back in #4? ;)

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Post by Diablo » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:05 pm

Jeez, it's pretty dead around here !! Does anyone reads comics anymore ???


I enjoy the Astonishing series so far, and I'm sure a lot of people will be happy with Piotr's return
-I won't use Spoilers since the information isn't new anymore.

It's weird. I like Colossus, but I'm sad he's back. His sacrifice was beautiful, then. He disappeared too quickly, yes, but because his sister Illyana died of the Legacy Virus, his action made sense.
For Jean Grey, it's different : her (new) death was kinda pathetic -just like Magnus's. Their return, I do like.

Regarding the plot, I'm happy with Whedon's work... but I was expecting more from him than the return of a dead character. An easy way to gain readership.
I'm a big fan of Whedon. I guess he will surprise us in the next arc. And I hope he'll create something, someone new.
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Post by Dezzy Dragon » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:17 am

I loved that Colossus came back. He was one of my favorites along with Kitty and Kurt. I just want to know what the heck those people have been doing to him. I want to know how this fits in with the story. And I want to know who Emma was talking to at the end of the last issue that came out! I half to say right now Astonishing is one of my more liked books (along with Kurt’s solo series of coarse).

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Post by Northstars Love » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:23 am

I'm curious to know who Emma was talking to. This other individual has something against Kitty as well. Could this be someone with the Brotherhood? Selene?

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Post by Diablo » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:50 pm

Or someone totally new ??
Just wait and see.

All writers want to make us believe the former villains who joined the x-men are still villains.

Juggy in Chuck's arc.
Sage in Uncanny.
And the White Queen in Astonishing.

The best thong in Astonishing for me ?? The tension between the characters.
And do you think we'll see Kurt and Ororo's reastion to Piotr's return?? In Uncanny, perhap's ?
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