Astonishing X-Men General Discussion

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Post by Panz » Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:59 pm

Originally posted by Crawler:
Astonishing X-Men General Discussion

Here's the place to discuss Astonishing X-Men!

Enjoy!
I'm not looking forward to Whedon's run because he wrote Kitty as a whiney twit in the preview scripts. I know that's petty , but Kitty is my favorite female character and I'm pi$$ed off.

With the ending of "New" out, I am hopeful that Magneto will find his way back to a clone or something and be back. Since he can, and has survived the "death" of his physical body before, I'm hopeful that out from under the control of Sumblime or whoever, he will do so again. When written by Claremont, he is an interesting adversary and a nice counter-point to Xavier.

On another topic, I wonder where the Cookoos will end up? besides Xorn, they were the other thing that I liked about the Morrison era and I would hate to see them limbo-ed.
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Post by Diablo » Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:50 pm

I'm expecting big things from Joss Whedon. I really, really liked his work with Buffy and Angel. I wondered if he'll "transform" some characters as he did on his shows, or if he'll only write them "classic".
Joss Whedon sure knows how to surprise his audience. I guess we can have faith in him. :)
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Post by Crawler » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:02 am

Here's the place to discuss Astonishing X-Men!

Enjoy!
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Post by Tracker » Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:06 am

When does Astonish even come out? I've lost my list of release dates.
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Post by Garble » Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:30 pm

When I first heard rumors that Joss might write one of the X-titles, I thought it was completely made up because it seemed too good to be true.

I'm looking forward to seeing Joss's style aplied to the X-Men. I only hope he has Nightcrawler guest appear a few times. I'd love to see Joss's interpretation of Kurt. :)

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Post by Crawler » Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:11 pm

I'm mostly hoping that they already have a few in the can before the first issue is released. Cassiday's work is beautifully detailed, but he's known to fall behind over time because of it.

I'd rather the book come out on time every month than be perfect...but that's me. If they had a 2 or 3 issue headstart (which, given the timeline so far, shouldn't be hard) then maybe that gives them enough leeway to get the others out on schedule. :D
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Post by Nandireya » Mon Apr 26, 2004 4:32 am

"Wolverine's relationship with a fellow X-Man takes an unexpected turn..."

So...whatta you guys reckon? Kitty? Hank? Or are we gonna be stuck with another Logan/Scott/Telepathic babe triangle again?

Or...

:logan "I never realised how pretty yer eyes are..."

:cyke *blush*

:emma "Terrific...I finally get rid of the redhead and now this?"
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Post by Diablo » Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:55 pm

Yeah, at last an unexpected X-couple !
:LOL:LOL:LOL

(man, it's one of the funniest posts ever !)

Seriously, do you think Kitty and Logan will be together ???

Also, is it me, or does Cyclops in the new Previews look like... Joss Whedon ??
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Post by Paty » Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:28 am

:mags:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!
Yeah... that was funny!
I am distressed for people who are upset about Scott and Emma...and wish that that element of RBM's run could be dispensed with. Hasn't Scott learned his lesson with that slut?
Really...OK, I cut him slack in the initial infidelity cuz Emma used her power on him and Scott didn't have a chance...but now that he knows what she did, there is no way to continue that seduction with any modicum of honor...cuz you know Jeannie will be back ..it is the nature ofher power.
OK here's a question...If wedding vows are "till death do us part..." are jean and Scott still married? I mean, Wolvie killed her out there by the sun...and Magneto killed..no... he didn't... he didn't have that kind of power...no matter what RBM said. she's the freakin' Phoenix for gods sake!!! She just came outta the sun! she survived a run through outer space, with Wolvie along for the ride...which means she was protecting himfrom space... Magneto doesn't have the kind of power to disrupt her in any way shape or form! Ever heard of sunspots? MAGNETIC STORMS ON THE SUN!!! Storms of such strength that they put Magneto's capabilities at this point to shame! And she survives them to be taken down by a "pulse" from Mags???!!! That is totally stupid...beyond all reason. Another RBM triumph of disbelievability! Sheesh!
Ahem...sorry about that...couldn't help it... OK...so Wolvie kills her to jumpstart her power which doesn't work that way...right...Jean dies and comes back as the Phoenix and saves herself and Logan...so, when Jean dies, does that invalidate the marriage...you know, annullment by death? sorta...?
If so, the first time jean bit the big one after they were married, blammo...Scott's a free man again. the legal problems boggle the mind...not to mention the ethical ones... Whatcha think?
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Post by Panz » Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:44 am

:LOL I think that when the "...til death do us part" thing was written, they didn't consider rebirth via phoenix force , or cloning, or any other sort of method of coming back from "The Other Side" :p
But technically, it would seem that Scott and Jeannie have been living in sin for QUITE some time :naughty

And another thing...yeah sure, it's a comic book but...Have we ever, in any of the times Jean has "died" gotten a death certificate on her? I mean, it doesn't matter if your head if 50 feet away in a ditch, unless you are pronounced legally dead...you aren't. If she isn't "legally" dead, they are still "legally" wed. So...either Scott and Jean have been living in sin for a bunch of years, or they've gotten re-married in Vegas off panel each time...right? . Or as a poster on Comix-fan put it...when she's alive they are married and when she is (currenly) dead they aren't and Scotty is a free man...LOL!!! this sounds like a terrible sitcom

Either way you look at it Scott can't keep his trousers up, now can he? :P
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Post by Paty » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:24 pm

:mags:
Yeah...who'da thunk it? The stalwart straight man getting more action that hot pants gambit! sheesh...that's like spock out poiking Kirk!!! talk about suspension of disbelief!
LOL
And bad song lyrics:
If she ins't legally dead...
they are still legally wed
Poor scott is in a quandry...
without a legal wife
Amid this legal strife...
who's going to do the laundry?

I cannot believe I just did that...
sigh...
I need a good Magfilk...

In the X Men...
Mags has sizzled Jeannie's hash...
In the X men...
weilding energies with dash...
In the X Men...
wolvie made his blood go splash...
In the X Men...
In the X Men...

In the X Men...
It is all a silly mix...
In the X Men...
RBM has played his tricks...
In the X Men...
Which dear Chris is sure to fix...
In the X men...
In the X Men!

there... now I feel better...
LOL
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Post by Panz » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:38 pm

MWAAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!! that does the trick.

I don't know what Whedon is going to do with Scott and Emma, but if you check out the previews to Uncanny, quite a few of the regulars are NOT pleased with the way Scott and Ems are (mis) behaving.
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Post by Paty » Sat May 01, 2004 1:03 am

:mags:
Yeah... also the last issue of New in which Hank walks away from Scott telling him that while He, Hank, likes Emma, he doesnn't like Scott very much right now...

and, as i explained to a friend from another mailing list who refuses to buy another X book until they retcon the Scott /Emma thing out and absolve Scott of the sin of adultery... Scott is not the only one at fault here.
Well it seems we are stuck with RBM's shit. they are not retconning it outta existance, which, as i have said, is a big mistake. Shit is shit...you cannot make an omlet out of it. well...you CAN, of course...but is anybody gonna eat it?
Emma is a professional therapist. She took unfair advantage of Scott when he percieved he had an emotional problem and came to her for help. whydidn't he go to someone else? Who? Jean? she was part of the problem. Xavier? Yeah...right... he is going to admit to his father figure that he has this problem...not likely...he has to perfect for the Prof. Outside help? who? where? the mansion is a very insular place...and Scott is not one to seek outside help he cannot know if he trusts. So he goes to the in house therapist...who totally seduces him. she has natural powers to help her do this.... and she does it with malice aforethought... or, at least, not even a backward glance. She acts totally unprofessionally...as bad in it's own way as if she had raped a student...and Scott is the one shouldering all the blame. He was as much a victim of the White Queen as anyone she attacked as a member of the Hellfire Club which is where she belongs. what the hell is this total bitch doing with children at Xavier's???!!! If chuckie cheeze wants to rehabilitate her, fine...but keep her away from the kids... of all ages! In many respects, Scott is immature..repressed...and doesn't even know it...doesn't know of his vunerability in this area. He began, to his credit, to suspect he had emotional problems...involving most specifically his wife Jean..who definately wasn't the girl he fell in love with long long ago. He sought out professional help. And was, himself, betrayed. by his therapist! By a collegue! By a supposed FRIEND! Between his emotional vunerability and her power kicking in, he had no chance whatsoever. Of course his actions since then, trying to blame everybody for his actions...and trying to rationalize them...suck moose.
And now a writer is gonna continue this farce? Gimme a break. Since when does Marvel tand for adultery? Jean isn't dead...she'll be back.. it is the nature of her power. So is he free to screw Emma as long as the Phoenix isnn't back?...as long as Jean is "dead"? Was there a death certificate? As Panz pointed out ... if there is no death certificate, she isn't legally ded. If she's not legally dead, how can he be legally unwed...and if he's not legally unwed, IT IS ADULTERY!!!
Does anyone at Marvel have a BRAIN between their ears??? they are supposed to be courting the pablumized halls of Walmart and they have ADULTERY going on inthe books??? gimme a break! the Scott/Emma thing has got to be shitcanned and fast! Especially if you want to put your books in Wally world!
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Post by Nightcrawler ZERO » Sat May 01, 2004 1:19 am


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Post by Paty » Sat May 01, 2004 1:41 am

:mags:
sheesh..had to go to three or four different pages... but ... interesting...
The mansion is being destroyed by sentinels...AGAIN!
oooooooooK...
right...
I wish you could read the dialogue on these pages...the resolution is always so poor that you simply cannot...at least, I can't...
I really hate pastel coloring. Saw an Avengers/JLA book in the store today...and it was FULL COLOR...DONE RIGHT!!! Damn! it was good!
I hate pastels. mostly...you got a full palate and these ozos use pastels...all over! sucks. no blacks...coloring book...saturday morning cartoon stuff.
PTUI
I will pick up the first issue and hope the story is readable. if not...forget it.
thanks for the link, NZ...forewarned is forarmed...as it were...
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Post by Panz » Sat May 01, 2004 1:54 am

Thank you NZ...my connection is nasty slow this evening (dial-up sucks) and the pages took forever to load...ya know...they never had school teaches dressed like that when I wnet to school :toothy

Well, I guess curiosity killed the cat and I'll have to give the first arc a shot just for fairness sake.
The art is interesting. .
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Post by Paty » Sat May 01, 2004 2:21 am

:mags:
the art is ho hum... who did it? A guy, right?
why isn't someone like Jill doing it? there's great artists out here...what is this? the fanboy club again? I mean... it is at least competant...but definately not inspired. reminds me of saturday morning cartoons again...the lack of blacks, I guess...pastel...
sigh...

I think I have problems with the coloring rather than the art per se...
sigh...
hhoooooo huuuuum
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...
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Post by Panz » Sat May 01, 2004 2:35 am

I liked all of the black and beautiful shadow work on the old Death comic...err..Sandman heehee...I don't usually care for things done in washes like this. I've seen pastels done well when they match the tone of the story, but I miss the crispness.
But I'm curious where Whedon is taking it. I have a certain prejudice where Kitty is concerned and have so far only liked her written for any length of time by Claremont. So as unfair as this is I'm going into the book with the expectation of not being at all pleased. Paty, the artist is John Cassaday, but I agree that Jill does gorgeous color work.
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Post by Nightcrawler ZERO » Sat May 01, 2004 2:51 am

Originally posted by Paty
:mags:The mansion is being destroyed by sentinels...AGAIN!
oooooooooK...
right...
Well, from the looks of things, it was a Danger Room style hologram- something to snap the kids into paying attention or make a point, as they faded away shortly after.

As for teh dialogue:

[spoiler]
PAGE 1:
Panel 1:
Narration- I'm a kid again. Out of my depth- completely overwhelmed by everything, and it isn't the Sidri, or Sentinels, or the Brood taht surround me.

It's the smaller pieces

Panel 2:
Flashback Kitty: Merry Christmas, Sexy.
Flashback Piotr: Kitty!

PAGE 2:
Panel 1:
Narration- At least I hope I'm not late

Panel 2:
Kitty- hi. Is it possible that I'm late?

Panel 3:
Emma- Quite so.

Panel 4:
Emma- This, children, is Kitty Pryde, who apparently feels the need to make a Grand entrance.

Kitty- I'm sorry. I was busy remembering to put on all my clothes.

Emma- So gushingly glad you could join us.

PAGE 3:
Panel 1:

Emma- Miss Pryde will be teaching Advanced Computational Theory, as well as acting as a student advisor and liason to the administrative staff.

Scott- It's great to see you

Kitty- Sorry about the timing. Did I miss the sorting hat?

Hank- Just Scott's Scintilating Introduction speech.

Scott- Even I was bored

panel 2-

Emma- Since professor Xavier is away on Sabatical, Mr. Summers and myself will be acting heads of school. Doctor McCoy and Miss Pryde will round out the senior staff along with Logan, who is....elsewhere.

KITTY- What does she mean, "elsewhere"?

Hank- It means we've narrowed it down to "else."

Panel 3:
Emma- Now. This is a place of learning. Not just about your mutant gifts, but about the world. Respect for your teachers, mutant and human alike, will be expected of all of you. Control of your powers, the safety of those around you, is of paramount importance.

Panel 4:
Emma- Violence of any kind will never be tolerated.


Page 4, as the Sentinels appear, we also see Emma press a button on her podium

Page 5, the Sentinels fade, leaving only Scott's whole in the roof. The whole holographic sentinel attack was planned by emma, but no one else was in on it.

Emma: So. What have we learned?

[/spoiler]

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Post by Bamfette » Sat May 01, 2004 9:13 am

Originally posted by Paty

why isn't someone like Jill doing it?
*blinks* that came outa left field :p and kinda strange in context since my art is cartoony.... very much so. people usually call it 'Disneyesque' some as a compliment, some.... not. but thank you, just be careful what you wish for. :p as for the colours... i know Mitch over there is pretty bold, but a good chunk of HS is in pastels... :oops

and i kinda like the colours.... don't see anything wrong with them, atleast. overall i don't have a strong opinion one way or the other on the art. some things i like, some i don't. overall, seems good. didn't get much story in those pages, but I liked the dialogue. :)

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Post by scheherazade » Sat May 01, 2004 1:54 pm

Originally posted by Nightcrawler ZERO

[spoiler]

Emma: So. What have we learned?

[/spoiler]
Not to trust you?

The line about the clothes gives me hope, though... for a return to non-skank kitty?? (yeay)

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Post by Paty » Sat May 01, 2004 2:34 pm

;mags:
colors in comics are like music in movies. we can't have music to nudge our emotional responses on a subconscious level...so in comics, we use color to trigger visceral response. Pastels are tranquil, sad or uplifting...depending on how they are used. to enhance a scene. bold colors and stark contrast engendered by blacks are exciting and get the adrenelin rushing. It is like having flutes and harps vs crashing cymbals and a full brass section doing your background music. colors and the use of blacks in the art set the tone and mood of the piece. If you are all pastel, without striking blacks, it becomes coloring book art...very blase...very safe...almost saturday morning innocuous. but if you want to show heavy themes..war,battle,tragdy...or action and adventure, you should not use pastels except as artist accents. a nice sunset or sunrise...a tranquilmoment...a soft love scene...rather than a hot one.
Art are the actors doing their thing in front of your camera...telling the story...acting their parts. but the lighting...the contrast between shadow and light,the coloring is another thing entirely.
We must remember that comic books are movies on paper. It is condensed storyboarding...and details of emotional triggers of blacks and colors must be paid attention to in order to bring the whole together.. Just as good music, lighting and costuming will enhance a movie, good art and coloring will enhance the believability of a comic story.
When you have an action/adventure scene that is done in pastels it is like playing th "Afernoon of a fawn" instead of "the ride of the valkyrie" in the apocolypse now helicopter attacks. It doesn't work. It ruins the push of the action being portrayed.
You have to match art and coloring to the story action. You can do a lot of this within any given style of art.
Disney art is cartoons...but it is not cartoonish. It makes use of blacks when they enhance the story...and it uses strong colors when needed and pastels when wanted to enhance the mood of the story. Of course, there is music to carry you along...and influence your emotional response to what you see.
But comic books don't have that...they don't have the music...so this mood control has to be done with art and color. when you have ,because of the style of the artist, a dearth of blacks...you must use color to make up for the lack of blacks and set the emotional scene and create the correct mood or tone of the story action.
When you have an artist who does not use blacks, leaving a lot more open for color...and you pair them with a colorist whose palate is nothing but pastels, it is gonna look like a freakin coloring book for preschoolers...or elementary kids...not an action adventure book for teens and post teens and adults of all ages. And this is your target audience for most of the X books. New mutants, NYX and such books can be lighter in tone and art...but your core X books are for adults and teens who are progressing from the pablum of childhood to adult reading, with it's more active themes of love, war and politics.
If you don't match art and coloring to the abmience of the book, you are gonna lose readers because, even if the story is good, the wrong tone of the book will leave a subliminal feeling of...unfulfillment. The reader may not know what is wrong...but they willknow SOMETHING doesn't feel right...sooner or later. And you won't be able to hold their interest. The choosing of artist and colorist is as immportant as the choosing of a writer . If the writer is going in a specific direction and setting a specific tone to his or her stories, the art has t match and enhance that storytelling...or you might as well not have art.

Jill,I am familiar with your art. It is fine. It is not representational as dave;s or John Buscema's or Jim Lee's or Neal adams...but it is representational in the sense of a John RomitaSr. And his art was some of the finest ever published! There are disneyesque elements to it, but you are not afraid to use blacks to give weight to your art, as some artists are. disney art is the epitome of the cartoon style...don't knock it. It is beautifulstuff. Cartoonesque doesn't have to mean "not suitable for action adventure". Byrne's art is cartoony...but he can, when he wants to , do a fine job of setting the mood and telling the story. I was not fond of his art for the X books, but his work on Captain America was splendid and I have seen other comic work he has done...notablly a piece in the elfquest books that I colored that was superb.
I would love to see you doing a regular stint on an X book! Be a whole lot better than some of the art I have see on some of them!
Paty
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Astonishing X-Men General Discussion

Post by Nightcrawler ZERO » Sat May 01, 2004 2:44 pm

Originally posted by Bamfette
Originally posted by Paty

why isn't someone like Jill doing it?
*blinks* that came outa left field :p and kinda strange in context since my art is cartoony.... very much so. people usually call it 'Disneyesque' some as a compliment, some.... not. but thank you, just be careful what you wish for. :p as for the colours... i know Mitch over there is pretty bold, but a good chunk of HS is in pastels... :oops
Hey- The big push in Anime style art in Uncanny and the Tsunami lines, as well as artists like Humberto Ramos on Spiderman proves that Marvel is not necessarily looking for purely representational art these days.

What you've proven through your Heathen Sent preview pages is that you can:
A- Stick to a script
B- Convey all of your characters with a sense of personality
C- Give an overal sens of life and movement to your characters, and your page layouts.

I think that should count for a lot more than drawing perfect portraiture in every panel.

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Astonishing X-Men General Discussion

Post by Bamfette » Sat May 01, 2004 5:45 pm

oh, no, i KNOW cartoony is the 'in' style of the moment. though that's NOT why i am doing it.... I LIKE my style. I wouldn't choose to draw this way if i didn't like it, i would draw in another style. It's just that Paty said she did not like cartoony art. likened the art to saturday morning cartoons (though i don't see it. one thing i like about Cassiday is his use of shadows.... and while not totally realistic, it is not what i would consider to be cartoony...) like that was a bad thing. though she clarified later. (thank you, Paty) but it struck me as odd that she mentioned me, considering that.

I wouldn't choose to do it as my style if i didn't like it :p i LOVE cartoony. Humberto Ramos, Skottie Young, Kaare Andrews (when he choose to do cartoony, tho i love his realistic stuff too) etc. love them. I am perfectly capapble of drawing realistically (as i am sure they are, too. I KNOW Kaare is). which is a common misconception, that people do cartoony because it is a cop-out or they are incapable of doing another style. when it is a consious choice on the part of the artist 90% of the time. I used to do hyper-realism all the time, couldn't cartoon to save my life. it took a lot of practice to learn to cartoon well. it's not easy. but I feel cartoony is well suited to a storytelling medium such as comics. you can get clearer expressions and stronger poses, mainly. also free to play with colours more. though that doesn't mean i have a problem with representational art. as long as it looks like some care was put into it and conveys the story well. i am pretty easy to please, actually. i also like artists like Ashley Wood, Sam Keith, and Templesmith, but feel they are only suiteed to certain types of stories. but that goes for any style.

and Paty upon further clarification, i agree with you, somewhat. when i colour something, the scene dictates the palette. the pastels in HS are during the scenes which take place in Heaven. the underworld though is very dark, earthy tones. so yeah, i agree that the palette plays a big part in conveying emotion to the viewer.

but at the same time, i have seen some art that uses grayed out 'pastel' colours exclusively, and if done right, it can work. I'd say NYX is a good example. I see it as just another stylistic choice. again, not one that is suited to every story, but i think it is valid for certain kinds of stories...

and i definately totally agree that the artist and colourist are a big factor in setting the tone of the book. you don't choose someone like Ashley Wood to do a light happy story, for instance... I just don't feel they are off the mark with Cassiday, here. I think he's perfectly fine for X-Men... as for the colours, i think we may be seeing a bad scan. I've seen other preview pages from Astonishing where the colours were richer.

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Astonishing X-Men General Discussion

Post by Paty » Sun May 02, 2004 1:50 pm

:mags:
Have to wait until the book comes out to see what the color values really are.
I always liked strong color...hated pastels for the most part...but since the eyes lew I have becaome more obsessive about it. It is easier for me to see with high contrast and some of these pastels have all the same value to their colors...it just looks all washed out to me. Yeah... there ARE reds and yellows and blues... but they are all the same wishy washy value and they all gade toghether. color isn't used to pop anything up or drop anything into the background...it is just all the same vlaue...it is not used to enhance either spacial perception nor mood.
Then again, there was one book within the last year or so that had nvirtually no blacks at all!!! Oh, yeah...black rims around the eyes of the characters! I couldn't even read the damn thing it was sooo annoying...and i believe it wasan X book. Not only was it totally pastel, it was the most annoyingly cartoony manga style art imaginable! GAWDAWFUL!

There are cartoony styles and there are CARTOONY styles. I find some of the manga and anime styles entirely too cartoony for my taste. I take my superdoops seriously and want a more realistic style for the heavyduty stuff like the X books. enough blacks to hold the weight of the subjects and tone...and strong color for the most part. But "cartoony" is not intrinsically "bad".
Look at Disney. Look at some of the early Japanese stuff. space cruiser Yamato...Starblazers, here in the states... Captain Harlock! Now there was wonderful stuff. but there were a few characters...cartoony characters thrown in for hilarity... that I could not stand and which I thought broke the whole tone of both series. Squat little "south park esque" figures. I hated them. The major characters were drawn in a cartoon style ...but a realistic cartoon style. these "cartoony" little humor figures were, to me, right out! They were like having bugs bunny dance across a production of Phantom of the opera! They just didn't belong! I understand there are whole books utilizing this kind of art...and you will not find me reading them.
The art in HS, for example, has cartoon elements,to be sure. although I must admit to not having seen many of the pages. But the ones I did see were fine. But I must also admit that when I made that remark, I was thinking of your more representational art, Jill...LOL Your Nightcrawler and other X Men stuff in the gallery, for exammple. LOL
After your post, I made a point of looking at your Heathen Sent stuff, which i had been meaning to but had not had the time to see yet. And I understand what puzzled you about my original post. Glad to hav cleared up the confusion. Yes, this is a cartoony style...but it is not offensive to me as some cartoony art is. It still has a very representational feel to it.
I like, for example, the art style of Phil Foglio...who does the wonderful Mythadventures. And that is a very cartoony stule. But the Characters are realistic too...if you take my meaning. I am totally not familiar with the oriental school...most notably the Japanese cartoonists...the manga and anime artists of today. Any more, I barely keep up with a few X books... it is that hard for me to read...especially comic book script. and when they get artsy fartsy with some of the type, as they do often in some of the Image books, I am really out in left field. So the amount of reading i do these days... especially in the comics field... is limited.
I am very picky about art in certain books...LOL...I will not read the early X books, even though they contain key factors in Magneto's history, simply because I cannot stand Kirby art. It drove me away from comics for ten yers! During the late fifties and early sixties It was the only thing I could find on the stands where I lived...and I hated it...soI gave up reading comics and didn't come back until the earlly seventies...with John Buscema dnd tom Palmer and Roy thomas doing the avengers! John Romita doing spider Man...Neal Adams was doing Batman and Dave Cockrum was doing the Legion...and that was good stuff!
all comic art is to some degree cartoony. You are working with line art rather than finished paintings that are realistic...like the later books done by Alex Ross ...Marvels and Kingdom Come at DC. But some art is more cartoony than other art. And some art is just plain awful. some people who are drawing comics shouldn't be. And some who aren't ...should be. But that's company politics, and I won't go into that...at least not in this post...LOL
I didn't like Kirby art because of it's cubistic elements. Kirby used inserted lines to make your eyes jump around and make you think there was movement in otherwise static panels. It works, too...Kirby art is distasteful to me in the printed books...and when I had to work with the black and white siverprints at Marvel, it would give me headaches to look at it. It was intolerable! When I sat down to analyze why, I found out that if I took away the...what I called ..."jumplines" ... those lines that werennn't shading and had no anatomical reason for being there... I found that that sensation diminished and all I had were panels of ugly and static but innocuous art. PTUI!!
Buscema's art was always wonderfully rich illustrative line art. anatomically correct...even the horses!!! Excellent representational art which I loved. His death left a great gaping hole in the comic art field, even if he didn't like doing comics...he wanted to do serious painting.. and I don't think he ever did to any great degree. He used to tell me "Paty, when I retire from this..." meaning comics..." I am going to PAINT! It's what I really want to do!"
He would have done it well, too,I am sure.
The trick is, He died before he got the chance to doit. So, do the style you want... in the medium you want...cuz you never know when it is gonna go away...either for good or semi good.
You keep drawing, Jil...
And yeah...I do not mind the pastel ambience of NYX... or even New Mutants. I have hated every time Uncanny or New delved into anime or manga style, though. OOg...hated it...OOg!

But that's just me and , as you know, I am MONDO opinionated...LOL
Paty
:mags:
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