Ultimate X-Men General Discussion

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Post by Nandireya » Sat May 27, 2006 11:26 pm

I finally picked up the issue yesterday...and I noticed they printed a letter from someone who actually likes him...guess there had to be someone out there somewhere...

So...is Kurt pissed at Piotr 'cos he's gay, 'cos he kept it from him, 'cos of his faith (I'm guessing he has it by the 'abomination' bit), or all three? And if Ali CAN hear him wouldn't she kick his butt? "He's still the same guy you doofus! You liked him before. He said he's not after your tail...so what's your frikken problem?"
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Post by Confizzle » Sun May 28, 2006 11:37 pm

I think it was the Pitor not telling him and the religion thing, but damn Kurt why you be so mean to Petey.

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Post by Nandireya » Mon May 29, 2006 6:47 am

Hopefully Ali'll kick his butt and help him get over it...
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Mon May 29, 2006 12:28 pm

Actually, I really like this development. I mean, if its about his faith, it makes sense. And the whole feeling deceived makes alot of sense as well....

I think what I like about it is here's a guy who is different from everyone. And who knows how it feels to be persecuted for being different, in a way you cannot control or change...and yet....despite that, he still has his OWN prejudices. It makes him very human.

I'd like to see the whole thing fleshed out, and worked through. I wouldn't mind if it carried for a while, and they really dealt with it. I mean, you know eventually he'll come around (or maybe he won't.....wouldn't that be interesting??), but I don't want it to be handled as "________ knocks some sense into Kurt". This would be a nice bit of characetr development if he were able to come to his conclusions on his own....over time...
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Post by Confizzle » Mon May 29, 2006 3:45 pm

Yeah I have to agree with Nacht, this makes Kurt seem like a bit of an asshole, but to tell you the truth I'm not sure how I'd do in his situation, they aren't just having him ride the "Tolerance Train" but actually making him a bit of a homophobe, and let's hope he comes to terms with it on his own, maybe Petey and Northstar can make him watch "Brokeback" :LOL

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Post by Nandireya » Mon May 29, 2006 10:47 pm

I don’t mean immediately…it’ll take time…I guess I just don't like the 'abomination' bit, that's gonna take a lot to come back from (one may even leave the book, and I'm guessing it won't be Piotr...which would mean we'd be down to one background appearance a month)...maybe it's 'cos I'm also one who knows what it’s like to be on the receiving end of peoples' intolerances...

I doubt much will be done with it...they're too busy with Jean (Bloody bird!) and the Magician (Bloody Gary-sue!)...Kurt's still just set dressing. He got, what, one page and one panel on the frontispiece? That’s a lot for him...

Just hope they don’t go with the obligatory “He saved my life…he can’t be all bad…â€
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Post by Cibo » Tue May 30, 2006 2:01 pm

What's so terrible about Kurt having bad character traits? Comics shouldn't be totally politically correct because they should mirror the real world to a certain extent and prejudices are something very human, deeply rooted in (most probably) every culture across the globe, only the groups they are aimed at are different.
I think my dad has never got used to the fact that there are indeed gay people out there (he does not hate them or something, it is just hard for him to believe they excist) and that doesn't make him a bad person right away. (And he didn't like Brokeback Mountain. My mother and I thought it was great.)
And now there's life/ And a chance to make up for all those mistakes/ But please don't get me wrong/ Cos everything was honest/ True and from the heart/ There's still the same old hang ups so don't fret/ It's not safe yet/ And who knows there's always time to screw up again
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Post by Nandireya » Tue May 30, 2006 11:47 pm

I know I'm being an unrealistic dreamer...but is it so bad to want everyone to get along?
:read The Librarian ~ Keeper of Elfin Facts :read

:bamf I'm sick of my subconscious...it's like it's got a mind of its own... :bamf

:D A Touch Of Velvet :D

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Post by Nandireya » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:48 am

I just had a thought...the Ultimate X-Men are about to be betrayed by one of their own, right? Everyone's assuming it's gonna be the Gambit possessed Rogue or the Mary-Sueish Magician...but what if it's Kurt? What if he's still under Weapon X control? Or maybe SHIELD did something while they were poking about in his head? Maybe the cover of the annual is him being more assertive in getting what he wants because one or the other of these two have really brought the devil out in him…

Of course, if he gets the boot in favour of the Magician I am so dropping this title…
:read The Librarian ~ Keeper of Elfin Facts :read

:bamf I'm sick of my subconscious...it's like it's got a mind of its own... :bamf

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Post by Tyros » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:47 pm

Originally posted by Nandireya
I just had a thought...the Ultimate X-Men are about to be betrayed by one of their own, right?
I just assumed that they meant Jean and the whole phoenix thing.

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Post by Nandireya » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:54 am

Originally posted by Tyros
I just assumed that they meant Jean and the whole phoenix thing.
:scratch Hmmm...forgot about her...and it's not like they haven't pulled the old 'been there done that' before...even though I kinda thought the whole point of the Ultimate universe was to do something different....
:read The Librarian ~ Keeper of Elfin Facts :read

:bamf I'm sick of my subconscious...it's like it's got a mind of its own... :bamf

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Post by Diablo » Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:54 am

The Ultimate Nightcrawler character is getting ridiculous.
He doesn't understand gay people, and now he's depressed and will -I assume- shortly leave the team because he has "no friends left here".
What's going on with Kirkman ? I am perfectly aware that before his run, the Kurt character was unexistant, but now he's just getting dumb.
Shouldn't we Scrawlers protest about this ?

Also, has anyone read the Ultimate annual ? I can't find it... It seems Kurt finally plays a role in it but I'm afraid he's not on the team after that.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:54 pm

The Ultimate Annual doesn't come out til wednesday...

I wouldn't start worrying that Kurt's gonna be thrown off the team til it happens. They mention a betrayer from within the ranks but I can think of at least one character who most definately could fit that way better than Kurt.

Plus....wooo more Ali!
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Post by Diablo » Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:41 pm

Well, the man isn't on the future covers anymore...
We'll wait till wednesday then.
But I've got a baaad feeling about this.
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Post by Nandireya » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:23 am

I've been seriously considering dropping this title for some time...Kurt's depature may just help me make up my mind :thumbdown
:read The Librarian ~ Keeper of Elfin Facts :read

:bamf I'm sick of my subconscious...it's like it's got a mind of its own... :bamf

:D A Touch Of Velvet :D

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Post by Diablo » Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:34 am

Well, to be honest, I stoped readind the title two years ago, being fed up to see the Kurt character going nowhere. When I go to my comic shop, I generally pick one issue up, read Kurt's lines, go "sigh", and put it back on the shelves where it belongs. It's perhap's an interesting title for the X-fans, but definitely not for the Nightcrawler fans.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:48 pm

Man you kids and your complaining! Most of my favorite Ultimate characters are already "dead" but I still take a look at the book! It's still pretty interesting.

But seriously, you want to drop a title? Drop it. Stop filling the threads with negative vibes for those who are still reading though. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but threats about dropping a title over speculation that at this time has NO merit is just counterproducitve.

So, anyway, back on topic: Anyone have any clues as to who the betrayer may be? Any ideas? Anything at all?

[Edited on 29/8/06 by NachtcGleiskette]
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€

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Post by Confizzle » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:56 pm

You're right there Nacht, this thread is starting to look like the "Gambit" one at X-fan:LOL ;)

Anyway I suppose the obvious answer for the betrayer would be either Jean or Kurt, but Kirkman could surprise us.

BTW does anyone think that Kitty should just go to Ultimate Spiderman and stay there. :D

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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:32 pm

I was showing this to Id earlier, and figured I'd share:

This is a cover for the upcoming Cable stuff in Ultimate (yeah...hmm). I think it's issue 75. Now, what's wrong with this cover (other than Kurt's not there)?
Image

It could be an artist mistake but seeing as covers are one page and it's RATHER obvious I doubt it could make it past editorial....

Is that a hint?!! I HOPE SO!!!

[Edited on 29/8/06 by NachtcGleiskette]
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€

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Post by kamizzi » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:53 pm

Wys³ane przez Confizzle

BTW does anyone think that Kitty should just go to Ultimate Spiderman and stay there. :D

I think!

and why the heck, Kurt is so weard in the ultimate x-men??!!
in the last few parts??
he was nice at the beginning, I think... and now he become...
different...


and in weapon x kurt was about 16, i think...

[Wyedytowany dnia 29/8/06 > kamizzi]
:?

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Post by Confizzle » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:55 pm

Rogue's eyes are wrong.

Kurt could be odd because he's been f^cked around with by the Weapon X program, and he's 14-15?

[Edited on 8/29/2006 by Confizzle]

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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:16 pm

Originally posted by Confizzle
Rogue's eyes are wrong.
Exactly...and my question is...is that an artist mistake, or are we going to see something happen here prior to October?? Maybe in the Annual tomorrow??
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Post by Diablo » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:02 pm

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
Man you kids and your complaining! Most of my favorite Ultimate characters are already "dead" but I still take a look at the book! It's still pretty interesting.

But seriously, you want to drop a title? Drop it. [Edited on 29/8/06 by NachtcGleiskette]
Sorry, but you can't always expect people to like something without a bit of criticism. I've already dropped the title... which won't stop me from looking at it from time to time because of my love for the blue elf character. Which has been a really frustrating experience so far.

Like I said, it's probably a great book for the X-fans, but as a Nightcrawler fan, I'm really disappointed. Kurt never saves the day, and now he's a depressed homophobic mutant. Which is wrong. The ultimate line is supposed to capture the essence of the character we like. And poor Nightcrawler is reduced to a shadow of a role. I would'nt complain about it at X-Fan or Newsrama, but since it's Nifghtscrawlers here, it seems the right place to look at all the Kurt Wagner incarnations and discuss them in all freedom, mein freund.
You have your opinion -which I respect and won't attack-, I have mine, so please let us express ourselves freely, Ja ?
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:27 pm

Originally posted by Diablo
Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
Man you kids and your complaining! Most of my favorite Ultimate characters are already "dead" but I still take a look at the book! It's still pretty interesting.

But seriously, you want to drop a title? Drop it. [Edited on 29/8/06 by NachtcGleiskette]
Sorry, but you can't always expect people to like something without a bit of criticism. I've already dropped the title... which won't stop me from looking at it from time to time because of my love for the blue elf character. Which has been a really frustrating experience so far.

Like I said, it's probably a great book for the X-fans, but as a Nightcrawler fan, I'm really disappointed. Kurt never saves the day, and now he's a depressed homophobic mutant. Which is wrong. The ultimate line is supposed to capture the essence of the character we like. And poor Nightcrawler is reduced to a shadow of a role. I would'nt complain about it at X-Fan or Newsrama, but since it's Nifghtscrawlers here, it seems the right place to look at all the Kurt Wagner incarnations and discuss them in all freedom, mein freund.
You have your opinion -which I respect and won't attack-, I have mine, so please let us express ourselves freely, Ja ?
I'm not attacking opinions, nor am i trying to keep criticism out of this thread. In fact, you didn't even quote everything I said. The rest is as follows:
Stop filling the threads with negative vibes for those who are still reading though. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but threats about dropping a title over speculation that at this time has NO merit is just counterproducitve.
We don't mind sharing opinions and we don't mind if people come in and want to tell us WHY they don't like it. But just coming in with stuff like "it sucks, im dropping it" with no reason is not only annoying, but against the first rule of this board. So, feel free to share your opinions, both good and bad.
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Post by idsunki » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:44 pm

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
Constructive criticism is always welcome, but threats about dropping a title over speculation that at this time has NO merit is just counterproducitve
No one is being silenced, everyone is allowed their opinion. I, personally, would rather it be constructive criticism of the book than just vague threats to drop the title.

The thing I really like about this board is the intelligent discussion I can have about comics I read. If you're going to drop a book, let us know why. If it's based off speculation, please don't be so quick to cast judgment.

In Ultimate X-Men alone, a lot of people were complaining about how super-powerful and lame Magician was. Now? He got beat up by the whole team and is probably going to jail for quite a bit of time.

This isn't to say not to speculate, but don't accept anything as the gospel truth until you're holding the actual issue in your hands, and even then I wouldn't be one hundred percent sure.

-edit- aw man, beaten! -edit-

[Edited on 29-8-2006 by idsunki]
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