PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby Panz » Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:57 am

Now, I have not gotten a ride into town for a bit during the times when our binky comic shop is open, but from what Ive gleaned, Mags has become addicted to "Kick" a performance enhacement drug, he also, recently, began to exhibet a split and diametrically oppossed personality disorder. Bad side Mags/good side Xorn
(I hope this is literate, I'm typing without my contacts)
IF he survives Morrisons run, if we can catch him, we should be able to help him with medication...and rehibilation, if we want to play this as reality wise as possible. And you are so right Paty, there has always been somerhing soundly creepy about Chuckie.



As far as I can tell, Claremont/Davis are a go on Uncanny...You can't know how long Ive waited for this, I almost cant believe my eyes. Davis draws a pretty cool Nighty.

*Blah!* it is either 3' of snow or 1' of mud...I am dreaming of coconuts and tropical vegitation :P
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby Paty » Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:08 pm

:mags:
I don't for one miuse believe this is the real Mags...nothing points to it...or conversely, that this storyline is reality...nothing ponts to that either.
buildings come and go in the landscape...landmarks disappear and rise again...everything is disjointed and dreamlike...or rather, nightmareish...
In spite of the idiotic word balloons supposedly covering the glitches of no superheroes in residence...yeah.. Marvel...stupid...Magneto made a couple of phone calls to lure the heroes out to Brooklyn with the threat of a "black hole bomb"... Give me a freakin' BREAK!!! For this insert, the book was delayed a whole wWEEK!!??? Right...you may have Morrison mindslaves by the short hairs...and force them to swallow anything...but I, and any erudite reader, know poison jello when I see it...NO THANK YOU!!!

They ust think we are as stupid as they WANT us to be!!! I refuse to buy the last arc of Morrison's run. I am actually glad Wizard printed the whole thing...stupid move on Marvel's part...cuz who is gonna buy the mag now??? No one with a modicum of taste or intelligence. I mean.. Wizard at least has articles and other features that make the bucks you plop down WORTH it...and the Morrison drek is freebies, if you wanna read it. I didn't really...but I did admit to some curiosity as to what was gonna happen. You, know...like rubberneckers at a train wreck... where's the blood? Horrible...but you can't resist looking and going EEEWWW! Now that curiosity has been assuaged...wped out...cuz it is as bad as I thought it would be... I can walk away. Cassandra Nova as a GOOD character... the X people calling her "Cassie"!!!??? NO WAY, Jose! I am gonna puke!
Morrison should be drawn and quartered. Whoever allowed him to run amuck with Marvelcharacters should have the same fate visited upon him!!!

The whole thing is horrible...and there are still mindslaves out there who are trying desperately to find something good and "interesting" about this drek! Fer Goddess sake, don't waste your money!

My fervent prayer is that Chris can fix it. My more than fervent prayer is that he will take time back to the previous Alan Davis run to do so...it would explain and negate all the abberrations with Magneto's personality the last ...oh, close to ten years, I guess...
Eve of Destruction... the Genosha mess...allof that crap...not his fault! It wasn't HIM!!! And the whole thing is a fever dream of Chuckie's...his mind being attacked by CN, who is not so innocuously living in the basement, not so innocuously relearning her ABCs!

But that's just MY take on it. While Chris is perfectly capable of doing something splendid to rectify the mess and rescue the character, it will depend on Marvel allowing him free rein to work his magick. He built the X empire once...he could do it again, if they would let him. Will they LET him? You tell me...I have stopped trying to fathom irrational business decisions at Marvel.

When I left staff, Iwarned Romita and others that Marvel, if it continued in it's present course, was headed for a fall. I even gave a timeframe...and except for the five years that the Image guys bought Marvel, I was dead ON! Almost to the day with the declaration of Bankrupcy! what I am wondering is who paid these guys to destroy Marvel from within? Now, that may sound paranoid...but I am beginning to believe that sabotage can be the only explanation for what has happened there. Marvel was never that stupid on purpose...venal, greedy, shortsighted, maybe..but never that stupid about business matters. they always covered their OWN asses. this whole mess smacks of frenzy and industrial sabotage...or should I say literary sabotage? A company whose stock in thrde is it's characters, MUST, at all costs, protect the viability of those characters!!! Disney knows that ...in spades! You can't sneeze, witout Mickey and pals being disinfected for latent germs!
Now, I don't advocate the stranglehold Disney has on it's characters...but a modicum of concern for the integrity of the characters should be the prime directive for editorial at Marvel...with the power to back it up. But Marvel has no real editors that I can see...at least not on the X books...and especially not on New X men! Quesada has, in the past, been a good creator...writer/artist...but whether he can pull this all together as an Ed in chief is another matter. That he let Jemas dig Marvel so deep a grave to begin with is mind boggling. But he was new to the job and feeling his way with regard to what he could do and not do...sorta like a tyro taking over the Presidency...the first years are spent learning the job...and Jemas took advantage...and nearly destroyed Marvel in the interim.
Now, Joey the Q has siezed the reins of power...so we will see what HE is gonna do. The Claremont/Davis teamup bodes well...IF they will be allowed to work the magick they CAN work.
Only time will tell...and we must wait and see. I just hope this latest debacle with Mags hasn't sent the last of the "old guard" packing. I, for one, am so disgusted I am about to quit! If Morrison had gotten that new two year contract, I would have packed it in and never bought another Marvel book. Thank the GODS he left! Personally, I think he saw the writing on the wall...having written himself into a corner that had a mile deep dropoff...and no parachute. That's really why he left. he was looking for an excuse...and the brouhaha with Mark Waid was tailored for his move. He could go out looking like the high king muck a muck eschewing the company that dissed his pal, Mark.
PTUI !!! He'd said what he wanted to say...he'd done what he wanted to do...he was outta there in any event. Sooner or later...thank goodness it was SOONER!!!

No, no, Paty...tell us what you REALLY think...

LOL.. I am an opinionated person. I am also a literate and intelligent one. Yes, I DO say so myself. Erudite others concur...not that that matters. But I have ever spoken what I believe to be truth...what i know, in my heart, is RIGHT. And something was definately rotten at marvel. Only time will tell if the rot is still there. I would like to think it isn't. I would like tho think that things can change...but not at the expense of the kind of quality that I expect from Marvel. without that quality, there can BE no Marvel...and the people upstairs had better start realizing this.

The audience is no longer the unsophisticated kid with a comic in his back pocket. the audience has changed...and is changing...is litterally in a constant state of flux... even as we speak. the internet has changed everything...not just the way comics are made, but the whole quality of the ardience...the readership. Marvel has been trying to woo new twelve year old fanboys...cuz that was always it's target market. but the fanboys are out playing interactive video games! The readership has changed...is changing. Girls make up a growing part of the readership and they like convoluted plots and interesting, complex characters. The older readers, who have money and can influence their kids to read these books that they loved, are leaving in droves cuz the characters bear no resemblence to the characters they loved. If Marvel doesn't wise up soon, it isn't gonna HAVE an audience left. And then they are gonna stand there scratching their heads and fondling their gonads...or fondling their heads and scratching their gonads... and say"Wha happened???"

Dave believes in the goodness of Chuckie. Dave has shown irrational behavior in choosing his friends before this. After all, he actually shared an apartment with Shooter! at one time. And there have been a few other times when I have questioned his understanding of people's motives and motivations. Dave is a trusting soul.I don't think Chuckie is at all trustworthy. I mean.. would a trustworthy person send teenagers out to battle a supervillain??? Under ANY conditions??? Cildren who were entrusted to his care??? I don't care what the motivation was...you do not send teenagers out to do an adult's job...especially if that job incurs the possibliity of physical harm or death! And the X men were teens at the beginning...some of them quite young. Totally under age!

This is an arguement I have with Xavier afficionadoes forever. It's one thing to be a teen and say " I am gonna put on a costume and swing through the streets and do good and fight bad guys...because i believe it is the right thing to do..." It's another to be an adult, sitting safely at home and saying, essentially, "Go get 'em, my X Men!!!"
You do simply not send children into battle with people you know can crush them...and Xavier KNEW Magneto's potential. No...Chuckie isn't trustworthy at all..condemned in my eyes by his own actions over the years...but i don't expect a lot of people to agree. Once in a while, like you, some people do and I smile at that. Almost invariably it is females who demur when considering Chuckie's trustworthiness. I wonder why that is...do we lookdeeper?
An erudite Doctor once said that he trusted his wife's view of personalities better than his own. They would go to a party and after the party he would ask her to tell him about this or that person...and she would tell him things about them, after one contact, that he didn't find out for himself for months...so he had come to depend on her evaluation of people, over the years of their marriage. He allowed as how women can size up a person so much faster than a man can...and so much more accurately.
I agree with him. women have learned over the centuries to look for subtle nuances in people...it is how they have survived...and in many places in the world, still do! You learn the subliminal warning signs...the look in the eye that spells danger...the subtle movements that men aren't even aware they make...and women too. and, yes, some women are better at it than others. and some men can do it too...and some of them are better at it than others, too.
I don't like chuckie...I don't trust him. Not even Patrick Stewart, whom I admire gretly, could make me trust him! LOL
But's that's just little, ol' opinionated ME!!!
LOLOL
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby LadyErin » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:32 pm

Originally posted by Paty
:mags:
I don't for one miuse believe this is the real Mags...nothing points to it...or conversely, that this storyline is reality...nothing ponts to that either.
buildings come and go in the landscape...landmarks disappear and rise again...everything is disjointed and dreamlike...or rather, nightmareish...
In spite of the idiotic word balloons supposedly covering the glitches of no superheroes in residence...yeah.. Marvel...stupid...Magneto made a couple of phone calls to lure the heroes out to Brooklyn with the threat of a "black hole bomb"... Give me a freakin' BREAK!!! For this insert, the book was delayed a whole wWEEK!!??? Right...you may have Morrison mindslaves by the short hairs...and force them to swallow anything...but I, and any erudite reader, know poison jello when I see it...NO THANK YOU

They ust think we are as stupid as they WANT us to be!!! I refuse to buy the last arc of Morrison's run. I am actually glad Wizard printed the whole thing...stupid move on Marvel's part...cuz who is gonna buy the mag now??? No one with a modicum of taste or intelligence. I mean.. Wizard at least has articles and other features that make the bucks you plop down WORTH it...and the Morrison drek is freebies, if you wanna read it. I didn't really...but I did admit to some curiosity as to what was gonna happen. You, know...like rubberneckers at a train wreck... where's the blood? Horrible...but you can't resist looking and going EEEWWW! Now that curiosity has been assuaged...wped out...cuz it is as bad as I thought it would be... I can walk away. Cassandra Nova as a GOOD character... the X people calling her "Cassie"!!!??? NO WAY, Jose! I am gonna puke!
Morrison should be drawn and quartered. Whoever allowed him to run amuck with Marvel characters should have the same fate visited upon him!!! !!!


Ok, I’m really glad I spent my money on tuition and not this run. But I have to admit to the rubberneck syndrome here too-I kinda want to see what is happening. Although the details I’m getting from a couple friends who are spending money may cure me of that. And WHAT?!?!? Cassie? Someone’s on drugs-or should be…maybe this is just a bad LSD trip or something…it would explain the lack of continuity scene to scene.

The whole thing is horrible...and there are still mindslaves out there who are trying desperately to find something good and "interesting" about this drek! Fer Goddess sake, don't waste your money!


Seems like in every fandom there are people like this, they are spoon fed crap from a cesspool and then politely ask for more, all the while bashing and attacking anyone who demands something of significance. They are too brainwashed by the person with the spoon to see the man behind the curtain. They believe all the glitter and false promises, all the praise (self-proclaimed normally) and ask no questions. The man with the spoon is god and no one is allowed to follow an other-they are the proof positive someone has pissed in the fan pool and they (along with more than a few others) need a good class on fictional writing (and a lesson on anatomy and drawing realistic human figures but I’ll get off my soapbox right here)

My fervent prayer is that Chris can fix it. My more than fervent prayer is that he will take time back to the previous Alan Davis run to do so...it would explain and negate all the abberrations with Magneto's personality the last ...oh, close to ten years, I guess...
Eve of Destruction... the Genosha mess...allof that crap...not his fault! It wasn't HIM!!! And the whole thing is a fever dream of Chuckie's...his mind being attacked by CN, who is not so innocuously living in the basement, not so innocuously relearning her ABCs!

But that's just MY take on it. While Chris is perfectly capable of doing something splendid to rectify the mess and rescue the character, it will depend on Marvel allowing him free rein to work his magick. He built the X empire once...he could do it again, if they would let him. Will they LET him? You tell me...I have stopped trying to fathom irrational business decisions at Marvel.


I still like your clone theory. I think it would cover things nicely, but I am really interested as to what Chris is going to do and how he is going to clean it up. Defiantly going to have to spend money on that one and not borrow friends copies.

When I left staff, Iwarned Romita and others that Marvel, if it continued in it's present course, was headed for a fall. I even gave a timeframe...and except for the five years that the Image guys bought Marvel, I was dead ON! Almost to the day with the declaration of Bankrupcy! what I am wondering is who paid these guys to destroy Marvel from within? Now, that may sound paranoid...but I am beginning to believe that sabotage can be the only explanation for what has happened there. Marvel was never that stupid on purpose...venal, greedy, shortsighted, maybe..but never that stupid about business matters. they always covered their OWN asses. this whole mess smacks of frenzy and industrial sabotage...or should I say literary sabotage? A company whose stock in thrde is it's characters, MUST, at all costs, protect the viability of those characters!!! Disney knows that ...in spades! You can't sneeze, witout Mickey and pals being disinfected for latent germs! … Now, I don't advocate the stranglehold Disney has on it's characters...but a modicum of concern for the integrity of the characters should be the prime directive for editorial at Marvel...with the power to back it up.


Now, first off, I wouldn’t have, under normal circumstances, deleted parts of your post in my reply, Paty, but since I’m trying to reply in a concise manner, I had to. And you must be a really shrewd businesswoman. As well as an observant one. Of course, that wouldn’t surprise me. And no, you don’t paranoid, just practical. It strikes me as either someone not caring or someone who has no business sense at all. Or possibly a monkey with a typewriter…You see, people get on my back about talking about certain characters as if they are real people. To some level, I think you have to. But really, if the people who own the characters wouldn’t stand up for them, then the fans must. Someone who knows the character(s) must fight for him(her/it) simply because someone needs too. Of the few characters I have created in my writings, I am very protective of. Not meaning that nothing bad ever happens to them-that’s bad writing but that I will not let other writers use them, because then they may do something to harm the character I have created.

… He'd said what he wanted to say...he'd done what he wanted to do...he was outta there in any event. Sooner or later...thank goodness it was SOONER!!!

No, no, Paty...tell us what you REALLY think...

LOL.. I am an opinionated person. I am also a literate and intelligent one. Yes, I DO say so myself. Erudite others concur...not that that matters. But I have ever spoken what I believe to be truth...what i know, in my heart, is RIGHT. And something was definately rotten at marvel. Only time will tell if the rot is still there. I would like to think it isn't. I would like tho think that things can change...but not at the expense of the kind of quality that I expect from Marvel. without that quality, there can BE no Marvel...and the people upstairs had better start realizing this.


You should say so yourself, Paty. One thing that the world has taught me is that you must speak up for yourself and you do that very well. And again, I agree with you here too. Something is very wrong here. Like I said-someone is on drugs or needs to be. What gets me is the lack of regard for people who have taken time to express why they have problems with the company (or hot air factory). Not only are we telling them not to, we are explaining it to them. Like a caregiver to a child, we are explaining that this knife is sharp and will hurt you if you play with it, but also how to use it so he doesn’t get hurt. But they aren’t a child who has to do to learn, has to get cut to understand…then again, maybe they are.

The audience is no longer the unsophisticated kid with a comic in his back pocket. the audience has changed...and is changing...is litterally in a constant state of flux... even as we speak. the internet has changed everything...not just the way comics are made, but the whole quality of the ardience...the readership. Marvel has been trying to woo new twelve year old fanboys...cuz that was always it's target market. but the fanboys are out playing interactive video games! The readership has changed...is changing. Girls make up a growing part of the readership and they like convoluted plots and interesting, complex characters. The older readers, who have money and can influence their kids to read these books that they loved, are leaving in droves cuz the characters bear no resemblence to the characters they loved.


This is my biggest gripe. Not only are girls ignored but the older, more educated readers are as well. X-Men, when written with the slightest bit of respect for backstories, canon, history, interpersonal relationships and the issues brought to the forefront in a well-written issue, flies right over the head of most younger teens (and some adults). It takes a lower of maturity to understand that just isn’t there for most tweens and young teens. My introduction to X-Men was TAS-the episode titled “Enter Magnetoâ€
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby Panz » Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:58 pm

Paty, never shut up :P we love you beyond reason here and enjoy every LAST word that you say.

If you or Rivka could be so kind as to send me a link or addy to the mailing list. While I love no one as much as Nighty, Mags is certainly up there in the top of my list and I would like to keep an eye to what the latest news is on him and the situation. apparently, GM is [spoiler] killing off Phoenix at the end of his run, and
I don't know what is to happen with Xorn/Mags[/spoiler]
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby Nightcrawler ZERO » Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:34 pm

Xorneto will probably end up mindwiped, with the Xorn helmet welded back on, playing patty-cake with Casandra Nova in the basement.
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby LadyErin » Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:51 pm

Originally posted by Panz
Paty, never shut up :P we love you beyond reason here and enjoy every LAST word that you say.


Thank you-that is much better than what I was trying to say.
If you or Rivka could be so kind as to send me a link or addy to the mailing list. While I love no one as much as Nighty, Mags is certainly up there in the top of my list and I would like to keep an eye to what the latest news is on him and the situation. apparently, GM is [spoiler] killing off Phoenix at the end of his run, and
I don't know what is to happen with Xorn/Mags[/spoiler]


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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby Nightcrawler ZERO » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:06 pm

Hey- I got another theory on the Wizard issue.

Maybe the house of ideas is thinking again?

Think about it- 2 facts:

1- Morrison fans will buy anything written by him
2- Morrison's last arc, by being such, should be his best selling arc.

So, if Marvel is forced by contract to damage their characters, they can damage his reputation.

If the fan boys get their Morrison fix from Wizard- early , they won't buy the issues. There is no way to prove that Wizard's sales come from the inclusion of Morrison's arc.

Therefore, the industry will assume that fans were too disgusted with his work to buy it.

This is a future timeline. M2 doesn't count as continuity. Bishop and Cable's timelines no longer exist. Only DOFP exists as an unalterable timeline, and the X-men managed to avert being pointed at that future. There is NO RISK OF THIS BECOMING CONTINUITY...............

Now, DC just has to survive their restructuring by Morrison.
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby kladyelf » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:48 pm

(when did Image own Marvel...?)
I've said it before and I'll say it again! Charles is on something! He's having flashbacks :D I can picture the finale in my mind!

after defeating magneto, the X-men, a bruised Mags and the brotherhood do a can-can through the ruins of New York singing:

(to the tune of "in the Navy" again!)
Chuck on Acid!
He's affecting you and me,
Chuck on Acid!
Messing with reality..
Chuck on Acid!
We ain't rated as PG
Chuck on Acid!
Chuck on Acid!

then they all go off surfing,

Wolverine: I love the smell of spandex in the morning, smells like... victory

everyone else looks puzzled and starts sniffing their underarms and go "huh?"
at which point a large foot from Britain drops out of the sky and squashes everyone flat.

(ah yes, Monty Python meets the Village people meets Apocalypse Now - which i have never seen by the way... i think i need to sleep now :LOL: )
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby anthomaniac1023 » Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:15 am

Now. Lets be reasonable here. Marvel is not trying to sabotage Morrison in any way with this issue appearing in Wizard. On the contrary, they're trying to get people more excited for the arc. Marvel loves Morrison. There are many fans who love Morrison, I personally think his is possibly the most intelligent and entertaining run of X-Men ever, although its close between this and Claremont's original stuff. Sales haven't dropped tremendously because people haven't liked Planet X. 151 will have excellent sales.
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby scheherazade » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:39 am

Wow... Just read entire thread... Too much character rape for one sitting... *goes off to little corner to cry*

*comes back*
How can he DO that? Magneto is a great character, wonderfuly developed. I always was intrigued by his history, it made me understand him more. And, yes, the world needs more super-Jews, damnit! Even evil ones. feh
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby Rivka » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:43 am

Originally posted by anthomaniac1023
Now. Lets be reasonable here. Marvel is not trying to sabotage Morrison in any way with this issue appearing in Wizard. On the contrary, they're trying to get people more excited for the arc. Marvel loves Morrison. There are many fans who love Morrison, I personally think his is possibly the most intelligent and entertaining run of X-Men ever, although its close between this and Claremont's original stuff. Sales haven't dropped tremendously because people haven't liked Planet X. 151 will have excellent sales.


Neither you nor I know what kind of sales NXM #151 will have -- I do know that it's unprecedented to reprint an ENTIRE issue as a preview! Paty knows the comic book industry better than just about anyone, and none of her speculations should be taken lightly.

That being said, you are incorrect in a couple of things you've said. Marvel is NOT in love with Morrison. Jemas gave him a sweetheart contract and he couldn't be edited, he wouldn't cooperate with the other writers, they had to bend to his wishes, and the editors couldn't do anything about this trainwreck that is "Planet X" -- this is no love-affair. On the contrary, it is very frustrating to have to clean up after Morrison's mess. And he is going to leave a stinky mess.

Another thing, Marvel management is mainly concerned with money. Will they do anything -- i.e., order Joe Quesada to do anything -- in order to sell comic books? I hope they have more artistic sensibility than that. I can't believe that printing the entire issue of NXM #151 in WIZARD is just a money-making move, since it could have the opposite effect; there has to be something more to it. I have no idea what that might be, but it sure as heck doesn't make sense.

In any case, if Marvel had the confidence in Morrison that you seem to think they do, they would NOT reprint the entire issue of NXM #151 in WIZARD Magazine.

One theory I thought of: I think Marvel is aiming that WIZARD printing at the retailers, a large number of whom are fanboys themselves, who have the market in a stranglehold -- a few thousand of them can determine the sales numbers of ten-times that number of comic books. Marvel wants the fanboy retailers to order NEW X-MEN #151 - #154 in huge numbers. It doesn't matter that the actual readers might be turned off, or say, "Hey, we already read this in WIZARD, why pay another $2.50 or whatever for the actual issue?" THe retailers will -- like loyal zombies -- order NEW X-MEN #151 in high numbers even if there are stacks left sitting on the shelves. No loss to Marvel, just to the retailers, who would be stupid enough to overorder this entire storyarc, which has only one good thing going for it, Silvestri's art.
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby Rivka » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:11 am

Originally posted by scheherazade
Wow... Just read entire thread... Too much character rape for one sitting... *goes off to little corner to cry*

*comes back*
How can he DO that? Magneto is a great character, wonderfuly developed. I always was intrigued by his history, it made me understand him more. And, yes, the world needs more super-Jews, damnit! Even evil ones. feh



LOL, yeah!

The Marvel Universe, and X-Universe, certainly need Jewish Holocaust survivor Magneto, one of the greatest comic book characters ever developed anywhere! There are a thousand stories to tell about Magnus, and his past, present, and future -- none of which include smashing him back into a Silver Age, one-dimensional cartoon villain.

I've cried during the last few days too. Even though I had an idea what was coming in NXM #150. (I've read the preview copy.) It isn't just what happens to Magneto, it's how Morrison degrades adn humiliates the character, and gives the finger to Magneto's fans. It's how Morrison's followers praise this awful writing, and imagine all this deep stuff when there is NO THERE, THERE. Nothing there but some kind of jerky Silver Age parody, using Magneto as a straw-man or puppet in order to express Morrison's personal views about super-heroes and super-villians and how these are "out-dated" and "old fashioned."

Yeah, and in order to do that, Morrison has to use and abuse Magneto, of all characters! Magneto, the most un-Silver Age like villain in all of comics. Chris Claremont recognized how useless the one-dimensional Silver Age Magneto was 20 years ago! This argument has already been had, this conundrum has already been solved. Claremont solved it over 20 years ago. Sure, Harras and his allies in the last few years tried to gut Claremont's Magneto, tried to return him to the Silver Age, and we all agreed this was BAD, bad bad bad. Useless, wasteful, ridiculous, and even (in the case of some people at Marvel at the time) anti-Semitic.

Morrison, of all writers, wasn't he supposed to be the one who liked complex villains? Wasn't he suppoed to be the one who saved Magneto, not complete Bob Harras' most cherished dreams, and gave John Byrne a new reason to live?

Instead, Morrison not only finishes the destruction of Magneto started by those most jealous of CLaremont, but goes further, using Magneto as a straw-man for his new theories about superhero comics, reduces Magneto to one of the most horrible portrayals of a character in X-Men history.

And don't doubt that's what GM is doing. I won't quote from NXM #150 yet -- but it is certainly beaten into us during this entire arc, "Magneto, you're old," "Magneto, you're out of touch," "Magneto, you're old-fashioned," etc etc etc. This is good writing? A good writer would have been able to see that Magneto is the most cutting edge, up-to-date character in Marvel's pantheon. Claremont made him that way years ago, and it was too ahead of the times for Bob Harras to comprehend.

As far as writing those great characters Xavier and Magneto, Morrison is the one out of touch, out of date, befuddled and lost in his own little world of theories and philosophies. Lest you doubt, read the preview of NXM #151 in WIZARD [spoiler] where Logan 150 years in the future is calling Cassandra Nova "Cassie," and "Missie," and "Missie Xavier," like she's this sweet innocent thing -- this embodiment of evil that killed 16 million mutants, and untold numbers of others throughout the Shi'ar empire. After turning Magneto -- Magnus, a survivor of Auschwitz who spent most of his life as a good man struggling with his dark side -- into some kind of retarded junkie that Wolerine has to dispatch once again. [/spoiler]

Marvel needs to keep a balance, when portraying characters that so many people love. Individual writers can NOT masturbate in their books; they can NOT be allowed to indulge in their personal fanboy fantasies. No editor should be allowed this either. There has to be a balance, and Morrison was allowed to break this balance. And it is wrong. If I owned Marvel or was the writer for X-MEN I'd want to turn Magneto back completely into the Headmaster Magneto from New Mutants days. I'd completely turn him into a hero, and Xavier would be the true villain of the books. And you know what, I would be wrong to do that. I could not responsibly do this. It would be me, pissing on the comics, and it wouldn't be right. I would have the responsibility of writing for the entire audience, for all the readers, loyal fans, many of whom love Xavier as the hero, and see Magneto as a villain.

There has to be a balance. Marvel has totally destroyed that balance by letting Morrison spank his monkey in NEW X-MEN. I really hope they can restore the balance as soon as possible, but after reading NXM #150, I don't know how that's going to be possible.
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Postby anthomaniac1023 » Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:12 am

Originally posted by Rivka
Originally posted by anthomaniac1023
Now. Lets be reasonable here. Marvel is not trying to sabotage Morrison in any way with this issue appearing in Wizard. On the contrary, they're trying to get people more excited for the arc. Marvel loves Morrison. There are many fans who love Morrison, I personally think his is possibly the most intelligent and entertaining run of X-Men ever, although its close between this and Claremont's original stuff. Sales haven't dropped tremendously because people haven't liked Planet X. 151 will have excellent sales.


Neither you nor I know what kind of sales NXM #151 will have -- I do know that it's unprecedented to reprint an ENTIRE issue as a preview! Paty knows the comic book industry better than just about anyone, and none of her speculations should be taken lightly.

That being said, you are incorrect in a couple of things you've said. Marvel is NOT in love with Morrison. Jemas gave him a sweetheart contract and he couldn't be edited, he wouldn't cooperate with the other writers, they had to bend to his wishes, and the editors couldn't do anything about this trainwreck that is "Planet X" -- this is no love-affair. On the contrary, it is very frustrating to have to clean up after Morrison's mess. And he is going to leave a stinky mess.

Another thing, Marvel management is mainly concerned with money. Will they do anything -- i.e., order Joe Quesada to do anything -- in order to sell comic books? I hope they have more artistic sensibility than that. I can't believe that printing the entire issue of NXM #151 in WIZARD is just a money-making move, since it could have the opposite effect; there has to be something more to it. I have no idea what that might be, but it sure as heck doesn't make sense.

In any case, if Marvel had the confidence in Morrison that you seem to think they do, they would NOT reprint the entire issue of NXM #151 in WIZARD Magazine.

One theory I thought of: I think Marvel is aiming that WIZARD printing at the retailers, a large number of whom are fanboys themselves, who have the market in a stranglehold -- a few thousand of them can determine the sales numbers of ten-times that number of comic books. Marvel wants the fanboy retailers to order NEW X-MEN #151 - #154 in huge numbers. It doesn't matter that the actual readers might be turned off, or say, "Hey, we already read this in WIZARD, why pay another $2.50 or whatever for the actual issue?" THe retailers will -- like loyal zombies -- order NEW X-MEN #151 in high numbers even if there are stacks left sitting on the shelves. No loss to Marvel, just to the retailers, who would be stupid enough to overorder this entire storyarc, which has only one good thing going for it, Silvestri's art.



Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but showing the entire issue is a marketing ploy to get excitement up, whether it makes sense to you or not. You say I don't know what I'm talking about, but you seem pretty confident making assumptions about Marvel's relationship with Morrison. They're probably greatful for him breathing new life into the X-Line. (which he did, in my opinion) Its silly to think that NXM 151 will sell less than 100,000 copies. As for the only thing good about the arc being Silvestri's arc, as I said before, I happen to think Morrison is the best person to write X-Men in years.

EDIT: Didn't the print the entire issue of Wolverine #1 in Wizard? We know how that sold...
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Postby Rivka » Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:33 am

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you...



Since you're just speculating, you are not disappointing me. In fact, your answer is entirely expected, and is not disappointing, in that I expected a rather junior-high-ish response bordering on the personal.


but showing the entire issue is a marketing ploy to get excitement up, whether it makes sense to you or not.


You do not know why Marvel decided to print the entire issue in WIZARD, and it makes no sense for a lot of different reasons. It is not really a guaranteed money-making ploy, and indicates a certain desperation on Marvel's part.

You say I don't know what I'm talking about,


I believe I said, we all are speculating, and don't know the truth. Stating something with great confidence doesn't make it true, to be sure. On the other hand ....

but you seem pretty confident making assumptions about Marvel's relationship with Morrison. They're probably greatful for him breathing new life into the X-Line. (which he did, in my opinion) Its silly to think that NXM 151 will sell less than 100,000 copies. As for the only thing good about the arc being Silvestri's arc, as I said before, I happen to think Morrison is the best person to write X-Men in years.


I'm very confident about what I said -- from what I've heard from inside Marvel. Jemas tied the hands of the front-lines editors and writers with his Morrison sweetheart deal and it has made for a difficult, frutrating time. Morrison is writing drek, and he is leaving a mess for others to clean up. He has not breathed any new life into X-Men, rather he has driven away fans who would otherwise have been reading X-Men, and he has degraded the X-Men.

EDIT: Didn't the print the entire issue of Wolverine #1 in Wizard? We know how that sold...


It was a #1 issue, and we all know what putting the NUMBER ONE on an issue will do. This upcoming storyarc in NEW X-MEN is a "Days of Future Past" riff starring Morrison's Marty-Sue and Mary-Sue creations, that won't have any real bearing on the current X-Men continuity, and a lot of people were planning on passing up this final Morrison "epic.
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Postby anthomaniac1023 » Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:48 am

Well then. I suppose we'll just see when the sales charts are released in February.
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Postby scheherazade » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:01 am

Originally posted by Rivka
LOL, yeah!

The Marvel Universe, and X-Universe, certainly need Jewish Holocaust survivor Magneto, one of the greatest comic book characters ever developed anywhere! There are a thousand stories to tell about Magnus, and his past, present, and future -- none of which include smashing him back into a Silver Age, one-dimensional cartoon villain.


Rivka! (damn good Jewish name, BTW) I completely agree with you. It's kind of like having a scary little fanboy writing the comics. You know, the kind that issue strange fanfic challenges on mailing lists and the like... This writing would be trashed in the fanfic world, that's for sure.

On two slightly OT notes (but the discussion is heading there anyway):

What are some other Jewish comic characters. Someone mentioned a third (besides Mags and Kitty) earlier in the thread, but does anyone know any others?

Also, I'm in a rather heated debate with a fool who stated "Isn't it strange that Polaris went evil when she turned Jewish?" *burning rage* Anyway, I beat down fool for being ignorant, As Lorna would only be Jewish from birth if her mother is Jewish, but then I fear that I may be missing something: We don't know her birth mother's religion, right?

and
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Postby Rivka » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:43 am

Originally posted by scheherazade
Originally posted by Rivka
LOL, yeah!

The Marvel Universe, and X-Universe, certainly need Jewish Holocaust survivor Magneto, one of the greatest comic book characters ever developed anywhere! There are a thousand stories to tell about Magnus, and his past, present, and future -- none of which include smashing him back into a Silver Age, one-dimensional cartoon villain.


It's kind of like having a scary little fanboy writing the comics. You know, the kind that issue strange fanfic challenges on mailing lists and the like... This writing would be trashed in the fanfic world, that's for sure.


I agree.

On two slightly OT notes (but the discussion is heading there anyway):

What are some other Jewish comic characters. Someone mentioned a third (besides Mags and Kitty) earlier in the thread, but does anyone know any others?


Here is the address of a website called Jewish Comics: a select bibliography.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropol ... JWISHC.HTM

It lists comics stories by author. There is another website that lists only the characters, and I don't remember where that is, and it didn't show up on a quick Google search.

Anyway, some of Marvel's Jewish characters are:

Sabra -- Ruth bat-Seraph. She is a mutant superhero, but she works not only for Israel's Mossad, she is a member of Xavier's underground. Lately she's been more and more upset with her government's policies towards mutants. She really really hates Magnus. She sees him as a disgrace to all her "people" -- as a Jew, a mutant, and a former citizen of Israel.

There is also Dr. Samson, the psychiatrist and gamma-ray victim, sometime superhero/super-being, and psychoanalyst to the HULK and one time to the members of X-FACTOR in Peter David's X-FACTOR #87, one of the greatest comics of all time.

Recently, Ben Grimm, the Thing of the Fantastic Four, was revealed to be Jewish.

There is Xavier's one-time love, and mother of his only son, Gabrielle Haller. (The son was Legion, David Haller.)

Walter Langkowski, "Sasquatch" from Alpha FLight is Jewish.

There might be a few more characters, but I can't think of them immediately. A pretty impressive list, and Marvel should be proud of their diversity of characters. Magneto, when portrayed accurately, is a tragic figure, a classic tragic Byronic character, a villailn-hero, or a villain always with the potential to be a hero. It's a shame that the EVOLUTION cartoon did a better job of portraying him than NEW X-MEN does.


Also, I'm in a rather heated debate with a fool who stated "Isn't it strange that Polaris went evil when she turned Jewish?" *burning rage* Anyway, I beat down fool for being ignorant, As Lorna would only be Jewish from birth if her mother is Jewish, but then I fear that I may be missing something: We don't know her birth mother's religion, right?


Good Lord, you have my sympathies. The only thing I can think this person is referring to is that in UNCANNY X-MEN it was recently revealed, that Lorna Dane has found "proof" Magneto is genetically her father. I don't really care for this retcon, but it's something Claremont wanted to do too, and I don't think it's a major contradiction of anything in continuity (yet), so I have to live with it.
Anyway, maybe this person you're arguing with is trying to say, since Magneto is Jewish, Lorna is, but as you say, since she wasn't raised by him, and her mother probably was NOT Jewish, she really isn't is she. And why would the fact she's Magneto's daughter equal (a) she's turned "evil" and (b) she's "turned Jewish."

Maybe the person you're arguing with meant well, but I don't think he has thought the matter out very clearly.
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Postby scheherazade » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:50 am

Thanks for the link *g*

Originally posted by Rivka
Maybe the person you're arguing with meant well, but I don't think he has thought the matter out very clearly.


I think it might be that he didn't mean well or didn't think it out very clearly... Or, if he did, he certainly doesn't now... *deletes flames and sighs, but then goes back to site and is happy*
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Postby Rivka » Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:17 am

Originally posted by scheherazade

I think it might be that he didn't mean well or didn't think it out very clearly... Or, if he did, he certainly doesn't now... *deletes flames and sighs, but then goes back to site and is happy*


Argh, believe me I know how it feels. The best thing I ever discovered was the "Filter" feature on AOL and the newsgroups, and the "Ignore" feature on X-FAN. Sorry if I sounded too "polyanna-ish" about the matter.

At least this dude is saying outloud what many more are probably thinking-- like lifting the rock to expose the crawly things underneath to the light. I have interacted with many X-Men readers over the last 8 years (since I've been online), and believe me whether or not they admit it, there are some genuine Judeo-phobes and anti-Semites out there who take it out on characters like Magneto or Kitty Pryde. So it doesn't surprise me if this kind of thing has been "inherited" by the character Lorna Dane along with Magneto's magnetic powers. And again, I may be completely wrong about this particular dude's motives.
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Postby Paty » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:17 pm

Originally posted by LadyErin
Paty, I enjoy few things more than reading your opinions-in fact I have, in class, whipped out my laptop, pulled up you emails from the magneto mailing list or pulled up your posts from this site and read them off in a class debate, since you state you opinions so wonderfully. Funny, really, how many people, when I tell them who I am quoting, don’t argue.


:mags:
HAW HAW HAW You gotta be kiddin'!!!
That's funny!
since I am mostly opinionated on Magneto, I can not imagine what you are quoting in a classroom...unless it is a class on superhero comics!
LOL
sorry I have been absent from the boards for so long..I am packing like a fiend and hope to the sweet bright lady that I get it all done before we have to be outta here! My stuff takes no time at all...Dave's stuff takes forever!!!

Yeah...puberty and the onset of the ability to HAVE kids is a great leap forward...but the understanding and maturity to properly handle that condition and power is often lacking for over a decade.
I have two sons. the first was mature in his understanding and thinking and responsibility when he was fourteen. The second is thirty four this year...and is still, in many ways, a kid. But he shows flashes of a responsibility that his older, wiser brother lacks! How to judge individual chidren? Ain't an easy thing to do at all... Peter Parker grew up overningh...Is bobby Drake grown up even now???
comic book characters let us see all the possibilities...fom monstrously complex and deep as the ocean... to shallow as rainwater in a puddle. It allows youngsters to find the degree of maturity they most identify with and learn from it...advance in maturity and understanding. It is a fertile ground for planting "what ifs" and seeing what happens when one selects a path to pursue...without accruing any harm to the reader. With possibly accruing understanding to the reader. this kind of action is viable...that is not...
When characters are written shallowly, or, in the case of the latest New X Men arc, inanely, the reader can learn nothing...understand nothing...except that the writer doesn't know how to write! Of course, if you don't know what good writing IS, then you can be led by the personality of the writer...and this is what I think has happened here. Morrison in his early days showed signs of being a good writer. His stories were interesting and well constructed. then something happened. Maybe he went on a decade long bender..maybe he got into drugs...I donn't know...maybe he got early fame and started believing his shit didn't stink! that happens to a lot of people...unfortunately. Fan adulation can warp your vision of yourself...and the worst thing for anyone is to take themselves too seriously! Hey! Guess what? A rock from space falls on you and removes you from the equasion, the world will go merrily on without you, kiddo! Believe it! some of these guys believe they are the sun and the moon and that no light shines unless they say so! And the Morrison said "Let there be light"...and there was light! and the Morrison took credit for it!
PTUI
I suppose I am digressing here...I better go back and read all the posts since last I was here... I understand there are a shitload of them...
Catch you later, kiddo...
LOL
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Postby Paty » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:29 pm

Originally posted by Nightcrawler ZERO
Xorneto will probably end up mindwiped, with the Xorn helmet welded back on, playing patty-cake with Casandra Nova in the basement.


:mags:

Xorneto...hey, I like that... cuz this is NOT Mags, for sure!... ends up dead...If what I saw in a preview issue a couple of days ago is true. Yeah... that's a spoiler...and I don't CARE!
Of course, I didn't get to read it all...but a more sorry waste of trees I have never seen in all my born days!
I'll pick it up to read it...PTUI... and I do not expect it to be any more coherent than the rest of Morrison's drek. what I did get as a casual runthrough was disjointed and stupid. I will let you know if I change my mind after a more thorough perusal...but I do not expect to change my mind. It's awful. It needs to be retconned outta existance...no lie! It is destructive in the Nth degree to virtually every character it touches.
I am still wondering WHO paid these guys to so deliberately set out to destroy Marvel...and it's merchandisable characters! this kind of mayhem just doesn't happen by accident!
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Postby Paty » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:51 pm

Originally posted by Nightcrawler ZERO
Hey- I got another theory on the Wizard issue.

Maybe the house of ideas is thinking again?

Think about it- 2 facts:

1- Morrison fans will buy anything written by him
2- Morrison's last arc, by being such, should be his best selling arc.

So, if Marvel is forced by contract to damage their characters, they can damage his reputation.

If the fan boys get their Morrison fix from Wizard- early , they won't buy the issues. There is no way to prove that Wizard's sales come from the inclusion of Morrison's arc.

Therefore, the industry will assume that fans were too disgusted with his work to buy it.

This is a future timeline. M2 doesn't count as continuity. Bishop and Cable's timelines no longer exist. Only DOFP exists as an unalterable timeline, and the X-men managed to avert being pointed at that future. There is NO RISK OF THIS BECOMING CONTINUITY...............

Now, DC just has to survive their restructuring by Morrison.


:mags:
Ha! I pity DC! they should keep him away from their major characters!
The problem with this is that...yeah it isn't a vialble future timeline..BUT the events leading up to it...the Planet X arc has to be retconned outta existance...or no more Magneto! that happens, and I am so GONE it will make tidal waves!
I read Marvel for Mags! It's that simple! MAGNETO! the Claremont Magneto! The one that's interesting, complex and sympathetic! The one who has a valid point to make...not the raver, lunatic that he was...and Morrison would make him again!
the Planet X arc was a giant "Fuck YOU to the fans, the industry as a whole...and everybody who loves and reads superdoop comics! To everyone who thinks that these characters DO have a life of their own...who like and respect the characterizations. He was saying.."HEY, DODOS... THIS CRAP...THESE STUPID CHARACTERS AREN'T IMPORTANT...I'M THE ONLY THING THAT'S IMPORTANT!!!"
And the walking, talking rectum believes it!
Sorry, all you Morrison fanatics out there...but sooner or later you are gonna wake up, smell the coffee and say.."Duh...wha hoppen???"

The future storyline is of no significance at all...it is a waste of trees and four issues. I can sit back and not worry about buying this bookfor the next four issues. I probably wouldn't have bought Morrison's run after one fifteen anyway, but I wanted to know how he was gonna bring Mags back... Too much curiosity...too much patience with drek...too much devoition to the Magster...waste of money...sigh...

HE'S GONE! HE'S GONE! Intelligent readers can breathe again...and not dread going to the comics store...YAY!

No, no, Paty...tell us what you REALLY REALLY think...

LOL
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Postby Paty » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:00 pm

[quote]Originally posted by kladyelf
(when did Image own Marvel...?)
I've said it before and I'll say it again! Charles is on something! He's having flashbacks :D I can picture the finale in my mind!

after defeating magneto, the X-men, a bruised Mags and the brotherhood do a can-can through the ruins of New York singing:

(to the tune of "in the Navy" again!)
Chuck on Acid!
He's affecting you and me,
Chuck on Acid!
Messing with reality..
Chuck on Acid!
We ain't rated as PG
Chuck on Acid!
Chuck on Acid!

;mags:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA I love it!!! I love it!!
Rhythmic clapping...
We want YOU...
We want you...
We want you as a new recruit...
We want you...
We want you...
We want you in a nuthouse suit!!!

LOL
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Postby Paty » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:23 pm

:mags:
I think part of the problem with characters like Lorna and Mags is thea the nature of the power is disruptive to thinking processes.
think about it...funnelling the magnetic forces of the world...or in magneto's case, possibly the SUN!!! through your body should have some kind of deleterious effect on it.
Mags has at times acted like a genuine wackadoodle! so has Lorna! So, in spades, did Zaladane! They all have magnetic powers!
I do not think that all mutants with Magnetic powers should be Magneto's children!!! Lorna makes no sense...nor does Zaladane, as some fans have postulated...Mags wasnn't the kind of guy to just screw around aimlessly...to scratch an itch, as it were. He always channelled his energies into his machinations...not into one night stands!
To have him screwing around is more like Gambit than Mags! Gambit's the Lothario...the one night stander...He cann't evenkeep his hands and mouth off teammates when he is loudly professing his love for Rogue...and those chickens will come home to roost, youbetcha!
Nor does being Jewish have anything to do with anything. It doesn't make you a villain! It doesn't make you a hero! Only your actions towards your fellow occupants of the planet can do that. Some people think Saddam and Osama are heros...others do not...depends on whose side youare on, doesnn't it? That's why Magneto's viewpoint in juxtaposition to Xavier's is so interesting! They are gboth approaching a problem from different viewpoints...who is right? who is wrong? Both? Neither? this is what good, interesting stories are made of!
but I digress again...
the whole effect of the magnetic storm and flux on the nervous system of those that carry the capackty to access it has to be enormous. It could burn them up...it could make them crazy.. it could either age them prematurely or, conversly, it could line up all their atoms and regress their bodies to the optimum age to carry the load...and keep it there! No wear and tear on it, everything functioning at maximum capacity... And these effects could vary from person to person, too... Lorna could go nutsy in fits and starts...like when the magnetic storms of the sun overload her ability to cope with the magnetic flux... or have a cumulative effect and destroy from within..Like Zaladane. Mags seems to have mastered his control of the flux...but even he could be iffy with it when he is tired, or hungry or both! If he isn't aware the sun is affecting his magnetic flux, he could vary in temperment... at least untilhe realizes he is accessing the Sun's magnetic flow and consciously attempts to control the huge flux of sunspot activiey... This is a humongously explosive , corrosive and destructive power! And I am only talking about it's effects on the body it passes through and the mind that directs and weilds it. It's potential for disruption of bodily functions like thinking is immense! That any of the characters who have this power are unstable is not surprising. Their stories are the battle with it, themselves and the forces which shaped them.
And these could be such great stories!!!
sigh...Immature, stupid or drugged up writers obviously can't handle characters with so many potentialities...so they just trash them so others can't use them and show up their deficiencies. And in the case of Magneto, Marvel LET Morrison do that! It boggles the mind!
Children who have not gone back to the beginning can not possibly understand the complexity of Magneto. He is an adult character for adult readers...and should not be downgraded demeaned or destroyed to bring the literary tenor of the books down to it's lowest fanboy level.
Mags is a character that, properly written, could support his own book...interacting on occasion with Xavier and the X brats...uh...men...right...right...
...slap...slap...wake up,Paty...tell 'em what you REALLY REALLY REALLY think!
LOL
Paty
:mags:
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
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Paty
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PATY!!!! rumour has it... (NXM SPOILERS)

Postby LadyErin » Sun Dec 14, 2003 7:55 pm

Originally posted by Paty

:mags:
HAW HAW HAW You gotta be kiddin'!!!
That's funny!
since I am mostly opinionated on Magneto, I can not imagine what you are quoting in a classroom...unless it is a class on superhero comics!
LOL
sorry I have been absent from the boards for so long..I am packing like a fiend and hope to the sweet bright lady that I get it all done before we have to be outta here! My stuff takes no time at all...Dave's stuff takes forever!!!


LOL. Well, first we where talking about writing (mostly how to clearly make a point) the got on fictional storytellling, then...welll...some how when ended on on comics and characters and what responiblity the writers and artists have to the readers. Then we got on X-men...poor professor didn't know what to do. LOL.

And best of luck packing-I really should start mind too...But have much less to move and seven months to do it...Oh, well.
Catch you later, kiddo...
LOL
Paty
:mags:


Best of luck and may the powers watch over you and keep you safe.
http://lady_erin.livejournal.com
:magneto
What do you mean, you "don't believe in homosexuality?" It's not like the Easter Bunny, your belief isn't necessary. ~~Lea DeLaria
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