On working from a script.... or Panz has a lot of balls aski

A monument and archive dedicated to Dave and Paty Cockrum. Nightscrawlers was their home on the internet and always will be. This forum preserves that legacy.

On working from a script.... or Panz has a lot of balls aski

Postby Panz » Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:02 pm

First off, I know that you are both up to your ears in packing and preparing to move, and so if you don't have time or inclination to answer one of my curious Panz questions, I entirely understand, and no harm done.

Here is my situation, and the question.
Having worked on (am still working on) several sequential projects with artists and having helped a couple of students at the University of Idaho with formatting a script, I have been asked by the University to talk with a bright eyed class of graduating graphics students about working with a writer and from a script and possibly teaching a seminar in script writing. Sometimes it pays to be a big mouth and tell other what to do all the time :P They are not paying me for this three hour stint, but hopefully, I can wring some green stuff out of them in the future.

I feel like I've had the unique opportunity to see how others write, having been the submissions pile slavey for a small indy company. I've watched editors shudder and reach for the brandy LOL!

I've made my mistakes, worked with an artist who could not and would not take direction or even remotely follow the script and had a beast of a headache trying to get rid of the fellow. Naivete is a lot of fun, and thankfully, cureable.

Being both artists and writers, in your opininion, what are some of the worst and best things that a writer can do to aid the artists in bringing the story across? Because, I'm the worlds most curious person, I'd ask who your favorite writers to work with are and why? I don't really want to get into the negative of this question...but a few "Don't do this to your poor artist" type hints would not be bad.

Wish me luck :P hopefully I won't get the hiccups this time :LOL
Panz

Wallowing in the deepest pits of melodrama
User avatar
Panz
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:24 pm
Location: Pandemonium
Title: The Red Queen

On working from a script.... or Panz has a lot of balls aski

Postby Dark Bamf » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:29 am

Hey, Panz--congratulations on your (non-paying, alas) gig. Hopefully, I can help a bit, and maybe Paty will take a break from packing to say a few things too.

Originally posted by Panz
Being both artists and writers, in your opininion, what are some of the worst and best things that a writer can do to aid the artists in bringing the story across? Because, I'm the worlds most curious person, I'd ask who your favorite writers to work with are and why? I don't really want to get into the negative of this question...but a few "Don't do this to your poor artist" type hints would not be bad.


Part of the problem is to know the capabilities of the artist you're gonna work with. Some are a lot more creative than others. Most have their own vision of what the story shoud be, but sometimes it's not adequate for the project. Some artists are not storytellers, and should be doing other forms of art.

So. Depending on your artist, you may not give him enough, if he's not all that creative, or if he's creative and innovative in his own right, he may feel that you're trying to stifle him if you give him a lot of material. On the other hand, some writers and some projects--like Neil Gaiman on the Sandman series--provided the most miniscule details, because he was a meticulous planner and wanted all that detail in the story.

Worst things you can do to an artist--and I know, because I've been on the receiving end of both of these at one time or another--is (1) to give him a boring script, and (2) drown him with so much copy that there's no room for the art. I could name a couple of writers who suffer from that second particular failing, but I won't. In the case of (1), if he's creative, he's gonna muck with your script to make it more interesting (Neal Adams used to do that). If not, you're gonna get a dull story. In the case of (2), if you overload him with copy, once again you may get a dull story because there's simply no room for exciting art. Or you may force him to edit or ignore a lot of your copy, and then you, as the writer, will have to work around or cover up intrusive artwork in order to get your copy across. Or edit yourself.

Writers I've enjoyed working with: Chris Claremont, Marv Wolfman, Len Wein, Roy Thomas, and Cary Bates. Since I was friends with each of those guys, working with them was a very easygoing partnership. Each had idiosyncrasies; Chris wanted to write more than I left room for, and he was forced to limit his copy. Cary Bates--on the Legion of Superheroes--hated to have to write large groups, and to my frustration, rarely included more than four Legionnaires in any story.

Oh, and I forgot. I like to work with me as a writer. I generally write a plot-with-dialog if I'm going to draw the story. I don't necessarily put down all the dialog in my plot, but certainly enough to know what I'm going to have to do to make the story work. And I generally have a lot of the pictures in my head before I ever set pencil to paper.

This all manages to sound a bit pompous to me, but maybe it'll be useful. :kiss

:bamf
'I'm in love, I'm in love with Atilla the Hun--
Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
--Atilla's Hunny
User avatar
Dark Bamf
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 791
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:00 am
Location: Belton, South Carolina
Title: The Creator

On working from a script.... or Panz has a lot of balls aski

Postby Panz » Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:32 pm

Thank you Dave :) I think I did all right on my first gig. Of course, I had to come down with a head cold, so it was like "Good eebning" :LOL The fates always manage to deliver the punchline. I had a few over a thousand art students and it was a bit daunting, but they were an easy and very attentive crowd and asked, mostly, intelligent questions.... They always say that you learn by teaching, and this seems to be true.


I have always admired your work, and it is interesting to see your point of view, and I thank you for that. My next gig is going to be about translating a script or commercial copy to paper...a storyboarding class...in spite of the fact, that to my eyes, the better half of the students seemed barely conscious, there is a lot of interest ( I believe it is the province of young 20-something students to seem mostly comatose, they do it so well...)

I very firmly believe that communication is ESSENTIAL between artist and writer, especially if the writer is not artistically inclined. I always try to give the artist room for toe wiggling. It is dismaying when they don't want it. I like the fine art of compromise and think that, if the parties invloved "Grok" what the other is saying, can be the very best of partnerships. I learned to script, mostly reading Claremont, and a bit from Ellis (Can't you tell????;)) and have had to learn the hard way to trim my dialogue...otherwise you have squashed scenes and characters trying to peek around the balloons, like inflated air-bags :P

I think of the two "Don't do this to your artist" things that you mentioned, the worst would be a mind-numbingly dull script ...the other is entirely my fault as the writer, it is my duty to convey the information in a clean, tight EXCITING format, and not in the least the artists fault. That would be a terribly boring thing to have to work from *bleh*

I don't get more pitches out there, because I end up mucking about in other folks projects and arbitrating squabbles. I ned to be less of a busybody.

I am happy with the University projects, and if I'm helping the kids and helping the comic industry, I'm happy. Chris is far more my muse and unwilling guru, than I am his fangirl, (I'm a Nightcrawler fangirl first and forever) but I still think I drive him batty, I'll try not to drive you nuts too ;) Thanks a million for your help. :kiss :) :bamf
Panz

Wallowing in the deepest pits of melodrama
User avatar
Panz
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:24 pm
Location: Pandemonium
Title: The Red Queen

On working from a script.... or Panz has a lot of balls aski

Postby Dark Bamf » Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:47 am

My pleasure, Panz. Oh, here's another tip--one I learned the hard way as a budding writer:

Never write captions that describe what's going on in the artwork. :D Quickest way I can think of to look like an amateur.

:bamf
'I'm in love, I'm in love with Atilla the Hun--
Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
--Atilla's Hunny
User avatar
Dark Bamf
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 791
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:00 am
Location: Belton, South Carolina
Title: The Creator

On working from a script.... or Panz has a lot of balls aski

Postby Panz » Sat Dec 06, 2003 5:56 am

"My obnoxious slime-green crocodile hide cod-piece of Thag-Mak-Ul will protect me from the deadly magenta death rays from Ulina's tri-serpent crown of Ultimte Dominion" neener neener neener :P

Please kill me if I go too much this direction...I worry about being too tabloid-esque all the time :/

Thanks again, I hope you can deal with a gimpy aging fan girl who thinks you're the coolest thing since velveta ;)....but not quite as cool as dark chocolate :D
Panz

Wallowing in the deepest pits of melodrama
User avatar
Panz
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:24 pm
Location: Pandemonium
Title: The Red Queen

On working from a script.... or Panz has a lot of balls aski

Postby Dark Bamf » Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:35 pm

I have to grant you the chocolate, Panz. I'm a chocoholic too. But I think you're cool too.

'Slime-green crocodile hide cod-piece of Thag-Mak-Ul'?!?

:bamf
'I'm in love, I'm in love with Atilla the Hun--
Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
--Atilla's Hunny
User avatar
Dark Bamf
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 791
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:00 am
Location: Belton, South Carolina
Title: The Creator

On working from a script.... or Panz has a lot of balls aski

Postby Panz » Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:52 pm

Would you believe that I read too much Conan and John Carter: Warlord of Mars at an impressionable age??????:oops
Panz

Wallowing in the deepest pits of melodrama
User avatar
Panz
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 2:24 pm
Location: Pandemonium
Title: The Red Queen

On working from a script.... or Panz has a lot of balls aski

Postby Dark Bamf » Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:20 pm

Naughty Panz! I don't believe John Carter ever said anything about cod-pieces! :P:LOL

:bamf
'I'm in love, I'm in love with Atilla the Hun--
Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
--Atilla's Hunny
User avatar
Dark Bamf
Lookout
Lookout
 
Posts: 791
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:00 am
Location: Belton, South Carolina
Title: The Creator


Return to Cockrum Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron