A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Paty » Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:24 pm

:mags:
Ok, people, here's a question I need the answer to and can't find myself due to all our reference books being packed in boxes in the fershlugginer barn!!!

Several years ago, Marvel printed a big, full color, coffee table type book on Marvel comics...possibly on the X Men specifically, but definately on the creation of certain groups...among them the X Men...and specifically the Cockrum, Wein, Claremont X reboot of 75...that would be giant Sized X Men nuber One.
In this big, glossy book...printed , I believe, first in soft cover and later in even glossier format with hard covers, they printed some of Dave's design sketches...and even told of how he took Nightcrawler to DC first...printing a piece of B/W art with Kurt shown in a group called "The Outsiders". the artwork was dated 1973 and mentioned Nightcrawler by name...along with several other characters from the inexhaustible Cockrum stable.

Ok...here's the question.
What was the Name of that book...and the official publication date as shown on the incicia inside the book? Under ordinary circumstances, I would know this, cuz I would just go look it up in our copy of the book... but all that stuff is still packed...and i need to know the info as soon as possible...so can anybody out there help me out with the info?
Thanx...

Paty
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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Panz » Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:55 pm

Is that "Marvel: The characters and their universe"? Big book...black cover with a bunch of marvel characters ripping out of a star shapped rip?

lessee...By Michael Mallory?
Mine is in Seattle still *sigh* but from what I can find online it was published by Levin Associates and was published Oct.10, 2001...Can someone please help me confirm this? That was the first edition I think, which I have . The 2nd edition was a collectors edition and about $80 .

I'm not sure if that was much help...I've got my posessions scatered across several states . :dead
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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Nightcrawler ZERO » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:08 pm

hmmm..... I think I found the picture you're referring to in Dave's Gallery, but he didn't date it......

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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Paty » Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:42 am

:mags:
Yes...that's the picture...and the date is there if you can blow it up big enough...it's right after his signatrur which is right bove the D in Outsiders. LOL...
And the date is "73!!! I know, cuz i have the original here...LOL...
But what i need to know is the name of the book that Marvel printed with that piece of art in it. It might have been the one you suggested, Panz...or it might have been an Ultimate X Men compilation of some sort. that was Dave's best guess... but i doubt it was that, cuz Ultimate is a totally different universe than the one he dealt with...and hopefully, never the twain shall meet... when II asked Dave, he couldn't remember the damn title, either.. so he took a wild guess at it. but yes, it was a big glossy book of the type you described, Panz.
I just need the correct title and publication date...and writer or editor if that is available.
Thanks, y'all!
Paty
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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Nightcrawler ZERO » Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:08 am

Well, I own the "Ultimate X-men" book (which has nothing to do with the Ultimate universe), and I klnow it's not that one. Only rejected concept work of Dave's that was in there was one of his Phoenix designs....
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Postby kladyelf » Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:59 am

I looked up the title of the book on amazon.com and this is what i found:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books

It has bibliographical info on the book itself if that is what you need, the art itself is another question, but it does let you peek inside (only the cover and contents page by the looks of it)
if you need any other help please don't hesitate to ask :) :bamf
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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Paty » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:12 pm

:mags:
Well, there's the two hundred and some odd page Marvel Universe book that they are also touting...and a number of other ones...but i need the one with the damn Ou6tsiders piece in it...
Now some of these books have a lot of info, but I specifically need the Outsiders pie e reference. Is the "Marvel: The characters and their ...etc...the book I am looking for?
Amazon had a shitload of books on the site...and it could be any of them. I need the specific ref...and page number that illo appeared if possible.
I know...I am asking an awful lot...I may go to our local bookshop and see if they have any of these on their shelves...I already spent a very frustrating morning with the acres of boxed books...some of which are not labled!!! I didn't pack THOSE you can bet!!! but I wasn't the only one doing the packing! sigh...
So I am still looking for the specific ref...if anyone can get it for me.
thanks
Paty
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Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby BAMFCentral » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:42 pm

I remember flipping through the Big Black book with the Characters bursting through.... I do not recall seeing that pic inside the book. Does anyone actually own the book and can refute me??? This one actually looks like a reprint. The cover is different from the first printing.

The big black book never came out in Softcover, that I saw. I have a few of the hardcover about Marvel comics at home I will thumb through those and see if I can find anything.
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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Paty » Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:04 am

:mags:
I am told by Den Gale and Mercy Van Vlack, knowledgeable people in the field, that it was Marvel Masterworks number One. Now, this is a fairly rare book, I understand...so maybe my only hope to get the info I need and the reference page is to hie my weary ass out to the barn and start going through the boxes out there...sigh...
If anyone out there has this book,kindly look in it for the illo, Pleeeeeeease??? ...whimper...
You have no idea what I am gonna go through out in that fershlugginer barn! the damn movers felt they had moved an entire library after they finished! No lie! We filled an eighteen wheeler...big North American Van Lines, moving rig...top to bottom, side to side, back to front...and a good feventy five percent of it was Dave's model kits and the books!!! I nearly filled a two car garage with the damn books...and hadn[t packed all of them yet! and this was to about six feet in height! on steel shelving! sigh...so I got a lot of boxes to go through, you can bet...and some of them are NOT marked! sigh...those are NOT the ones I packed, you can bet! OK...so try Marvel Masterworks Number One, any of you bibliophiles...LOL
Thanx...
Pay
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Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Paty » Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:41 am

:mags:
OK...I went to amazon and I think the Masterworks that Mercy and Ken meant is the one titledd:
The All New, All different X Men Masterworks: Giant sixed X Men #1 ...et al...
which deals with the Cockrum/Wein/Claremont X men specifically. It was put out in paperback...so that would jibe with Dave's recollection of it being in paperback...but I don't know if it is merely a reprint title or if it discussed the development of the characters...which it would have to do to have the Outsiders artwork printed. But THAT'S what I am looking for...that discussion of the origins of Nightcrawler...which WE know...but Marvel admitted to ...in print by publishing the original outsiders art...as well as the story of his creation when Dave was in Guam with the US Navy.
So that's the ref I need...and I suspect I shall spend all day tomorrow out in the barn searching...sigh...
Paty
:mags:
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Indigo » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:36 am

That is the one Paty!

Here's the incicia verbatum:


THE ALL-NEW, ALL DIFFERENT X-MEN MASTERWORKS â„¢ VOLUME 1
Originally published in magazine form as GIANT-SIZE X-MEN #1 and UNCANNY X-MEN #94-97. Published by Marvel Comics, 387 Park Avenue South, New York, N.Y. 10016. Copyright © 1975, 1976, 1993 Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc. All rights reserved. Introduction, copyright © 1993 Clear Mountain. All rights reserved. THE ALL-NEW, ALL-DIFFERENT X-MEN MASTERWORKS and all prominent characters appearing herein and the distinctive likenesses thereof are trademarks of Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc. No part of this book may be reprinted or reproduced in any manner without the written permission of the publisher.
Printed in the United States of America. First Printing: August 1993.
ISBN #0-87135-988-X GST #R127032852
10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1


The feature in question is X-MEN: SECOND GENESIS SKETCHBOOK
A look behind the scenes at the creation of the New X-Men

Conceived by Dave Cockrum in 1973 as a spin-off of DC's Legion of Super-Heroes and rejected by then-Legion editor Murray Boltinoff, the Outsiders counted the prototypic Nightcrawler among their number. Undaunted, Dave suggested the character as a member of the New X-Men during the initial development conferences.


Also depicted are unused Marvel Girl and Thunderbird costumes. Black Cat and Vampyre, as well as Dave's model sheets for Storm, Phoenix, Colossus, and Nightcrawler.

BTW, Marvel published a magazine called X-MEN ANNIVERSARY MAGAZINE also that year, September 1993. In it's "Let There Be X-Men" feature, a red version of the Outsiders pic is printed with the following beside it:

The wholly unique Nightcrawler wasn't even conceived as an X-Man, he was meant to be part of DC Comics' Legion of Super-Heroes and, later, of a Legion off-shoot called "The Outsiders" But according to artist Dave Cockrum, DC editor Murray Boltinoff felt the character was too funny looking. Cockrum eventually placed his pointy eared, blue skinned swashbuckler into Len Wein's all-international X-Men!


Again Thunderbird, Black Cat, Phoenix, and Marvel Girl's images are reproduced.

I first learned of Nighty's background in an interview Dave did in THE X-MEN COMPANION I by Peter Sanderson, published by Fantagraphics Books, Inc. © 1982.

I made a website about it last year.

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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Indigo » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:46 am

Darn! I just checked and the magazine version isn't loading from my free site.

Here it is! Hotlinked from my MB, Legion World -

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A Question for the bibliophiles amongst us...

Postby Paty » Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:16 am

thanks everybody!!! this was just the info I needed!
I knew you wouldn't let me down!
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paty
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Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
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