Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

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Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

Postby Panz » Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:08 pm

Hiya Paty (and Dave when you get back) I was curious as to what you thought of the entire Cassie Nova/Genosha story arc?

For me, there are entire points where it doesn't make much sense, and since then there doesn't seem to have been much done to correct all of the inconsistencies. I mean IS there a super deadly amount of radiation or not? has the world done anything about it? What about those giant uber-mega-mile-high sentinal jets? there were two dormant ones left over, right? but four were sent...:shocked

Anyhoo, Chris is kicking off the all-new Excalibur series with Xavier going to the ruins of Genosha, perportedly to mourne his dead friend Magnus...

Claremont interview

Lopresti art

There are some more art previews at ComiX-Fan, but for some reason I can't get the hyperlink to work *sigh*...I was wondering what you think and if you guys are following the lead in arcs with Chuck Austen on Uncanny and New?

I'm pretty excited about it, just because it IS Chris writing it and at long last, someone is going to try and clean up the Genosha mess. I Imagine with twin boys, Chris is pretty used to picking up messes, but I can't help but wonder what will happen whith Xavier when Magneto shows back up... :halo
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Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

Postby shakspear » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:38 pm

More power to Chris and Alan with Uncanny and Excalibur! Long may they reign!!
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Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

Postby Paty » Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:10 am

:mags:
Haven't been to the comic shop this week but hope to pick up Chuck Austen's first interim issue and New 155 tomorrow...or at worst, monday! I am looking forward to the repairs and retconning that Chris and chuck are gonna have to do to clean up the Morrison mess.
and, I am sorry Morrison fans, but it IS a MESS! Enough plot holes to drive a caravan of semis through!
The art mixup on the radiation factor of Genosha was one of the biggies. When the X people first went back to Genosha after the sentinels blitzkreiged it...and tell me why sixteen million MUTANTS just sat there and didn't fight back... but anyway... When the X people first went back, they were wearing no radiation suits. when fans pointed this out, and they took them back in a later issue, they were wearing radiation suits. It should have been the other way around...cuz there is a radiation with a short life...and logically you should have had to wear suits right after deployment...and been safe a while later...but maybe that was Morrison transmitting his thoughts to the artist and getting them back asswards...oops.. that's ass backwards.
so if we say that this radiation is the short lived kind, then we can waltz around half nekkid...as we know the girls will be dressed...or not...as we know the boys will be dressed. Sexist art still abounds at marvel...I don't care how updated or retro the mode is now...it's ALWAYS been that way. sigh...
That, is of course, a moot point. These are little boy's fantasies...so nekkid girls will abound.
Why there are wrecked sentinels is beyond me...no one put up any kind of resistance as far as we can see in Morrison's run...and the world didnn't say "boo!" about the loss of sixteen million lives as far as I can tell. No public outcry! No big UN thing on it! Zip! No big Michael Jockson songfest to morn a whole nation destroyed! Life as usual...not even a couple of TV documentaries! what? sixteen million deaths aren't newsworthy? Mechanical monsters wreaking havock isn't newsworthy??? Gimme a break! A couple of thousand refugees in Zimbango or wherever are starving because their own people are fighting tribal wars and trying to wipe each other out for the meager resourses extant...and the world is up in arms! But sixteen MILLION mutants are bombed to atoms and scattered radioactive bones and no one says anything! Can you spell PLOTHOLE?! Can you mutter "non existant STORYTELLING!!!"???
Yes, where IS Cassandra Nova? How much did she control? And Who? She was Morrison's one really good addition to the X Mythos and he destroyed her as a villainess in his future arc! Missie Cassie, indeed! PTUI! He couldn't even do THAT right! At least he was consistant...he destroyed every other character he could possiblly get his hands on...why not his own? PTUI!
CN was a formidable villain...or villainess, if you prefer...and should have stayed that way for any of Morrison's run to have had any validity at all...so now, if Marvel has any sense, it will retcon the whole smarmy run outta existance as a bad pizza dream of Hank McCoy's!
Cuz you are right, Panz...NOTHING makes any sense in his run. but then, you gotta understand that except for a few early issues, Morrison was not reaally storytelling. He was merely seeing how much havock he could wreak and having fun tearing down the solid characterizations that had been built by Claremont during his eighteen year tenure on the books. Jealousy does weird things to people, doesn't it? That's all it can be in my opinion. Morrison can write and write well when he chooses to. He just didn't choose to in the X run. He couldn't hope to match Claremonts body of work...or his brilliance of characterization, so the only other thing he could do was destroy...which he was very good at, thanks to Marvel's stupidity about not watching the store!
The whole mish mosh totally amazes me. I cannot believe the Marvel I knew would be so careless of their characters...their VALUABLE characters! It totally boggles the mind! But they let it happen, so now the only thing they can do to control and redirect the damage is to retcon that drek outta existance in the 616 Universe...which is the REAL X Universe...not a sidereal one.
when I read the new offerings, I shall let ya know what I think...but this fixing the world thing is gonna take time...unless you do a "JR wakes up and it is all a dream" thing here. Yeah..that's got my vote! Solve a lot of problems if you took the whole wretched thing back to Alan Davis's first run and blame it all on fake magneto clones of Astra's making!
Yeah...that works! Retcon ten years of shoddy writing outta existance at one fell swoop!
Works for me!
LOL
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Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

Postby Nomad X » Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:43 pm

From the last issue of Uncanny and New, it seems more like Austen is trying to fix, not retcon... Which is actually fine with me...

[spoiler]He'salready started getting rid of the hypocrit and harlet Emma Frost... In his first issue she flips out because Scott said "with someone" instead of "with you"... She also talks about helping the students and then actually puts her life on the line to help them (getting hit in the head with a brick would kill most people) instead of saying she wants to help them and then running and hiding behind them.

And then, oh no, he couldn't have done this in Uncanny... it's a sin... Austen actually has the characters dealing with the dead and dying!!! How dare he have Juggernaut flip out because he can't dig fast enough to save people buried under rubble!!! Why would Wolverine possibly go nuts and destroy a monument to Magneto... the same guy that just killed hundreds of people in New York and once almost killed him by ripping every ounce of metal out of his body... The nerve... And let's not get into the way Xavier was acting... I mean how could someone who dreams of peace possibly try to talk someone down instead of just mind blasting them into stupidity?

So, yeah, it looks more like Austen is trying to fix and deal with Morrison's run rather that get rid of it altogether... I like that better anyway, I hate it when things are retconned... Get's to confusing... [/spoiler]
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Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

Postby Diablo » Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:14 pm

I'm just waiting for issue 443. What will Chuck do ?? Can he repair that ? Will Marvel allow it ... or do they want Magneto dead ??
I hope next week's issue will give us answers.

(anyway, there's still a magnifiscent Magneto : the 1602 one. :))
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Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

Postby Paty » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:32 pm

:mags:
this is true...and as long as Gaiman writes it, there will BE a magnificent Magneto!
I have heard that there IS a followup series planned..they DID set it up as an alternate continuing universe, after all...parallel development, or some such...but I fear the characters will lose so much of their depth if a lesser talent than Gaiman writes it. DC was smart, not greedy. when Neil no longer wanted to do Sandman, they cancelled the series, in spite of it's high ratings...rather than let a lesser light mess with the concepts.
You can bet Marvel has NOT this kind of integrety.Gaiman sets up a fantastic series and they are gonna take gross advantage of it's fans. Typical. Greed.that's allit is...no feel for who should be doing the creative chores here..zippo...Gaiman doesnn't wanna work on it, then we will bring in somebody...anybody can do this stuff...and keep it running...SHEESH!
They still don't get it do they?

We'll see what hapens. I did enjoy the Gaiman run...but cringe at the thought of anyone else writing that line.
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Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

Postby Diablo » Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:34 pm

Yeah, Gaiman sure is unique. :)

I've read issue#443, and I'm really disappointed. I guess Chuck did what he could, though.

I know Magnus will come back... but it will probably take years...


Off-topic : I'm SO waiting for the big Magneto statue that Randy Bowen will SURELY do one day. Do you ??
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Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

Postby Paty » Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:59 am

:mags:
well... no matter what they do with this mess...short of a total retcon...which apparently isn't gonna happen... they are gonna have real trouble trying to fix things.
Now, I am not saying Claremont cannot fix things...that is one of the things he does best, after all... he takes lemons and makes lemonade... but the mess is so humongous that it is like trying to clean up after Godzilla has had diarrea all over tokyo! One pile of shit after another! Don't expect it to go rrapidly... or even well in certain quarters. I do look forward to excalibur and Chris's takeover of Uncanny. If anyone can fix ...he can. But there is the fact that he doesn't have all the X characters... which is a pity... and that some of these characters are indeed in the hands of people who actually LIKED what RBM did.
That's Rat Bastard Morrison..for you initial collectors...Heh...
So the fate of some of the old faves is in deep doggie doodoo, if you ask me. Which characters are going to who...or whom? OOOoooOOO deep dark secret!
Marvel is stupid... there are no brains at all there. a HUMONGOUS re boot..and no major HYPE? No posters? no ad campaign? No hoopla which is a proven seller of Marvel comics??? What pablum are they using for brains at Marvel? Why aren't we seeing major displays in the stores? Because every two seconds some element or team changes at Marvel? Stories are re written at a moment's notice? There's no one HOME there? all of the above?
such total market stupidity boggles the mind. And now I hear that Marvel is putting out it's own Previews like flyer..which explains why I couldn't find the Marvel section in the April Previews...so I don't even know, if I am a regular peruser of Previews where to go to look over marvel's offerings and possibly want to buy something I don't usually buy! Oh, smart move, Marvel!
Stupid...STUPID...SSSSTTTTUUUPPPIIIIIIIDDD!
Marvel is a rudderless ship right now...there's nobody with a brain home there. Goddess only knows what's gonna come out of zombie central!
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Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

Postby msgt » Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:59 pm

Hi Paty :)

I wanted to comment on the Cassandra Nova stuff you mentioned earlier in this thread.

Cassie was a good guy in Here Comes Tomorrow because Cassandra Nova was Ernst!

Ernst was the little girl who looked like an old woman. She was a member of Xorn/Magneto's Special class.

Remember how the Xmen defeated Cassandra Nova?

They put her in the alien named Stuff's body and trapped her there. This was in New X-men 126.

So the Xmen rehabilitated her! They put her in that body and programmed her to learn. So she became child like!

It even says so in one of the letter pages that Cassandra was Ernst.

Magneto/Xorn did not know she was Cassandra. Austen wrote that even Beast and Cyke didn't know because they went looking for NOva, even though she is one of their students, little Ernst.

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Genosha, Mags and Claremont's new Excalibur

Postby Paty » Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:41 pm

:mags:
Gimme a break, kid. I am neither in my dotage nor mentally deficient. I know the salient points of the "Future" crap even if I didn't buy the books. I browsed through them in the store to see if possibly there was anything worth buying...and believe me...there wasn't.
The whole last issue which purports to explain so much is simmply Morrison up against a last issue, with his fans screming for a resolution ...needing a resolution so they can say to the world "see? He tied it up!"
Cassandra Nova was a villain..she was brilliant as a villain. but he didn't want a really evil smarmy villain as his only legacy on the X books...so he undid this by calling her Cassie and blaming everything on a sentient bacteria? that is soooo lame it isnnn't even funy. He tries to do a Claremont...making Cassandra Nova turn into a sympathetic character...calling her Cassie. Wolvie calling this bitch who caused the death of sixteen million people...innocent people! Cassie is an affront to anyone's intelligence. Even trying to imitate Claremont, Morrison fails dismally.
With Mags, Claremont brought his background along slowly...building stories around us finding out about him...this is storytelling, kid. It has no resemblence to the crap that Morrison dished out in one issue. Oh...this sentence tied that up and that sentence tied this up and every thing is explained.
Bullshit! Kaka del Toro! ! Crappo del Ferdinand!
This is not storytelling! It is how a six year old tells a story. And then the little old lady who was a bad person at the start of the story a long time ago says "Yes, dear, you can call me Ernst"
PTUI! I know storytelling, kid! I edit a bestlselling NY Times author! I have had, in my time, a license to teach English compositional literature in three different states! This bears no resemblance to storytelling. If this little tin god were in any English class I taught, he'd get a freakin' big fat F for his puerile efforts on the last two arcs.
Earlier stuff he would have gotten higher marks on simply because there was more legitimate structure to stories...even with the monumental continuity glitches and character misrepresentations...but there was a modicum of storytelling there. But the whole weapon X thing was a diversion cuz he had issues to fill and instead of actually telling a fleshed out story he filled those issues with crap and then went on to have a temper tantrum in Planet X and then realized he had fans to mollify, so he tried to clean up eerything in "Future." A ploy which is so blatantly obvious to a professional that it is ludicrous.
And he says the whole thing is the fault of a sentient bacteria! Give me a freaking break!
I have seen better stuff written by sixth graders!
The pattern ..and it IS a pattern with Morrison... is that he starts out a series with interesting, if controversial, stories and points. His writing at the beginning is structured and well done. then, somewhere about halfway through, he seems to loose interest. From that point, the writing goes steadily downhill and usually ends up so fractured and inane that it isn't readable or even coherent. Why this may be...why this is a pattern with him... is anyone's best guess. I have been told that he brags on public forums that he does drugs. And quite frankly, the side effects of some drugs would explain the fractured writing perfectly. IF this is the case, I just wish he wouldn't try to write under the influence...cuz that never works. Other artists and writers have found this out and have averred in public that yes, they do drugs to court their muse...but they never write or draw under the influence because what comes out isn't coherent or viable.
Morrison has talent. .. but he abuses it. He has fans... and he abuses THEM! Because of his talent, he got famous early and it went to his head and now he makes up his own reality and actually BELIEVES it himself. He has become a cult leader...not unlike Jim Jones or that walking talking rectum in Waco. Let us only hope he doesn't get it into his head to gather all the faithful into a building and give everyone poison jello or burn it down...because there are some people who would follow and do it because he said to do so!
Remember what spidey says... "With great power, comes great responsibility!"
People with talent should use it to teach, to inspire, to help people understand problems and to foster the higher precepts of loyalty and goodness and courage.
The X Men stood for these things. They were heroes. Even the villains had a point to their actions. and the interplay of the two points of view taught lessons in understanding, tolerance and problemsolving.
Morrison by his own admission, elected to tear down that dialectic. He elected to wallow in crap...crap of his own making. He elected to destroy the core characters of a company...and try to make it so that writers coming after him could not fix them. The whole last two arcs are totally despicable with no social or literary redeeming value whatsoever. All Morrison's run has done is lose Marvel huge amounts of readers who had hertofore been faithful readers for thirty years! Doctors! Lawyers! Professionals in many walks of life who grew up with the X men...counted on them to provide a stable foundation of truth and justice and stalwart goodness for them in a world of shifting values and murky politics. They were a beacon...something they could sit down with their kids and say..."Look, these are what HEROES are!" Morrison willfully destroyed all that. By his own admission, he willfully set out to destroy the Xavier/Magneto dialectic. So to do this he had to destroy the characterization of the whole group? No. he didn't have to destroy all the heroes to do that...but he elected to destroy the characterizations of every character he could get his hands on.
He couldn't have done marvel more damage if he were PAID to do so ...and I am beginning to wonder if he wasn't PAID to do so.
And Marvel should have protected it's valuable characters from the depredations of this kind of corporate sabotage. That it is now jusping around like a cat on a hot tin roof and having the movie people screaming to get the characters back into being heroes and in line whth the movies, hints that someone is finally waking up and smelling the kaka.
This whole mess goes beyond inept storytelling and nonexistant editorial...although both are exacerbating influences. It goes to power plays inhouse. It goes to corporate sabotage. It goes to wheeling and daling and under the table plans and maneuverings. Something here smells as fishy as a three day old dead cod. Only time will tell what it is...and it WILL tell rational minds that stand back and look at what is happening.
It is an intriguing puzzle...and, of course, we donn't know all the pieces of the puzzle because nobody is talking aobut the inner workings. Marvel ties everybody that works for them up with gag orders and such. But all that does is foster mistrust and speculation...and in the long run that will hurt Marvel even more.
Marvel built it's rapport with fans over many years by INTERACTING with them. The fans could TALK to Marvel..they felt a part of it. They could suggest things and sometimes these suggestions were taken seriously because they were valid points or enriching input. Now it is a closed shop. They wallow in their puerile little secrets. They dole out hints here and there, like crusts of manna tosses before us swine. they are the creative...or not so creative ...gods and the rest of the world are slavering peons. And, in the end, that, too, will lose them readers.
There is an old song that is so true in life...and even more true inbusiness...the words go:
Make new friends and keep the old...
One is silver and the other is GOLD!
Now insert "readers" for "friends" and you SHOULD have the working motto for Marvel. But they haven't learned the truth of these words yet. And time may just run out on Marvel before they wise up.
Paty
:mags:
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
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135 W 50th Street
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