GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby Paty » Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:23 pm

:mags

PATY'S BACK ONLINE...and I wanna talk about Magneto! About his return! About his backstory that Chris so wisely gave him. About all the ups and downs this character has gone through...and, more importantly, why...and how.

Magneto is and has been the ultimate adversary for the X men in general and Xavier in particular. That Chris Claremont is bringing him back...the REAL Magneto.. in Excalibur is wonderful!! He will hopefully address the problem of his differnet characterizations...as well as cement his backstory and characterization into so unbreakable a mold that it cannot ever be tampered with again by those little neo nazis at Marvel. The complex, anti hero adversary Magneto was Claremont's masterpiece... and I think he knows this and wants to restore him.
NOW'S THE TIME TO DO IT, CHRIS...IF YOU ARE LISTENTING...OR REDING!!!
And kkudoes to Marvel for finally having the fine good sense to let Chris write as he can write! He built the X empire as we know it today...the one lesser talents tried to tear down with the resultant destruction of a huge financial leg of Marvel. why this was allowed to happen by a corporate entity that had everything to lose by it and nothing to gain is still a mystery. It will probably remain so. But that doesnn't mean that the stupidity has to continue...and it appears that someone has finally awakened and smelled the dungheap. And told Claremont to FIX it!
YOU GO! CHRIS!!! Do Mags ERIGHT!

So, seeing as how some people have hissy fits if we mention the REAL Mags...or even the book he is in... outside of Cokrum's Corner, we shall just stay here and post PRO Magneto messages on this thread.

So this is the thread where we can discuss Magneto. His backstory, his involvement with all the X folk incouding NIGHTCRAWLER...LOL and what has been done with and to and because of him.

Y'know, from my own experience and talking to others who took up the banner after I had left Marvel and turned away in disgust and didnn't know of the Magneto wars until I got a computer...it seems that Magneto, of all characters, is a focal point ...a pivot around which swings the most convoluted inner politics at Marvel that anyone could ever imagine. whether this is due to the backstory Chris gave him...making himJewish and a Holocaust survivor...or whether it has to do with inner office jealousies is not known. What we do know is that Magneto has been a hot contention point at Marvel for over a decade...longer, if you count the inner maneuverings of editors and writers and artists that happened before Claremont left after X Men 3.

We cannot say that personal grudges, politics, jealousies, and prejudices do not affect the comics. They do. Writers and artists bring their own life experiences and personal bents to their work. Editors bring theirs. When editorial direction and writer direction clash there are always fireworks. Apparently this has happened to and about Magneto more than any other character at Marvel...and perhaps more than any other character in the comics universe. It is not a new thing...just more pronounced with this character. Why is that? His Jewish Holocaust survivor background? His rising popularity with readers...especially female ones? Does it involve the professional envy and jealousy...which ,I assure you, exists in any creative workshop... of Claremont's brilliant body of work..eighteen or so successful and profitable years on the same venue...a feat not likely to ever be equalled!? does it involve any and/or all of these factors?

Whatever the controversy swirling around Magneto has as it's origin or it's continued existance long after the root of the dissention has been gone, the controversy still exists and influences politics ...as well as storylines ...at Marvel.

Marvel is to be applauded for letting Claremont restore Magneto to his viability as a complex adversary for Xavier. Puerile minds who obviously did not understand the importance of this relationship, sought to destroy it with devastating results. Marvel knows it has to rebuild it's core X characters into the strong story elements that they were in the eighties...under Claremont. And they have wisely chosen the master to rebuild their X empire...well... he built it in the first place, who better?

So, since to even talk about Magneto and the book he is appearing in on other threads, we have to go into folders within folders, here is the GREAT MAGNETO THREAD! We can talk about him here! His story lines, his back story and history... how he has been abused and how people have fought for him! If an ar5ist or writer has told you about Magneto politics, I wanna know it here. I want the whole, documented story of what we know has happened with regard to the Magster.
I want to know what is going on with this character...not only now, but in the past. Because people have come and gone from Marvel...been hired or not because of how they viewed this ONE character! and that speaks volumes to me of political agendas and manipulation of the printed word...of the subtle shaper of children's perceptions. Make no mistake about it...comic books and comic characters..whether video, cartoon or literary, have a profound impact on young minds and behavior patterns. when you start tampering with that clandestinely, what you are doing needs to be scrutinized in open, public forum.

Hopefully Magneto's fortunes are once again on the rise. To understand how they hit the ultimate low of the abomination that was Planet X we need to examine all aspects of his character and the politics swirling around it. I invite all to discuss Magneto...in all his incarnations and aspects within this thread.

Yeah, people, Claremont and Magneto are back with a vengance...and so is Paty!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAA

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:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
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Postby Northstars Love » Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:47 pm

LOL ! Paty you're too funny! :D But ya, great thread to start. I love Mags. And I'm very happy HE HAS RETURNED! Sorry to shout. :oops But I"m so excited by that very fact! And I knew ever since Planet X That he wouldn't stay dead!


Welcome back Paty! ;)
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Postby Paty » Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:20 pm

:mags
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
Of course he won't stay dead! He never dows. Y'know someone mentioned somewhere that probably his secondary mutation was immortality! I'd almost say his primary mutation was immortality...considering how many times over the decades of X stories he has bit the big one! He's giving Wolvie a run for his money.

Personally I think his power has something to do with it. Magnetic resonances never really die out do they? at least not while the earth spins and the solar system revolves...and the sun continues to bombard us with magnetic storms...so as long as that happens, he can't really die, can he? The magnetic flux will line up all his atoms to process the power most efficiently and clean up any aging...any deterioration of cellular structure...the whole rejuvination magilla. right?

Of course, since that bozo in NYC wasn't the real one anyway...patently obvious to anyone who knows the Master...heh...he really didn't have to come back from THAT death.

I am eagerlly awaiting what Chris is going to do...how far back is he going with the imposters? He could wipe out a lot of bad Magneto stories with this is he wants to...bad characterization...bad writing...all gone! Damn, but wouldn't that be FINE!!

From my fervent lips to the ears of the Bright Lady!

Meanwhile, we can only wait to see what Chris will do. A month is forever, isn't it? I haven't waited for a comic like this in decades!
And I know I am not alone. When I emailed that last page of Excalibur to private correspondents, they came out of the woodwork to request the image and to a person whooped and hollered in glee! I dunno...maybe that was the straw that broke my dear ol' computer's back...it went blooey around that time! but I am back just in time for the next preview ish to hit the stands and you can bet I will be there!!! Well... I will be there the next day, since we have to take Dave to the Hopital for a checkup on Wednesday...but i'm gonna call em and tell them to reserve that preview ish for me!
pant...pant...

I do hope that Marvel will have the common good sense to let Claremont alone and let him rebuild theX empire. I do believe there are still factions there that hate this character to little bits...and, even though I have my guesses as to why, I would love to know EXACTLY why Magneto is such a sore spot with soooo many people...both pros and readers. You know, you could do a doctoral dissertation on not only the character of Magneto, but the historical upheaval in the comics society of professionals and readers that he has caused.
there is something very potent going on here and, personally, I want it brought out in the light of day and discussed. I want this thread to be a journey of discovery and enlightenment where the Master of Magnetism is concerned...for he is at the heart of the X Men...along with his relationship to xavier... whether some people want to believe this or not.
Nothing in X dom is two dimensional. Maybe it started that way...but the complexities have come to far...and they are whqt keeps so many readers coming back again and again... well into adulthood and even old age...witness ME ! kiddo...LOL

So help us out here. Insights into the character of Magneto...historical references you may have gleaned that others may not know of...I will be the first to admit I do not know all the times and places he has appeared. some books I just did not follow, some I was too poor to buy and some came along when I had recently lost my eyesight ...and I didn't get them cuz it was a moot point. Magneto Rex came out just after the eyes blew and Dave read me the first issue...oog...don't ever let Dave read you anything out loud! He had this horrible southern accent for Rogue and horrible booming tones for Mags...it was awful! the next issue, I used a jewelers loupe to read the book letter by letter and word by word. It was torturous...but better than Dave reding it to me! So I am missing a lot of Magneto history...albeit BAD Magneto history...but still...

I often think that maybe I should just let the ten years of bad Magneto history go...but it IS canon...oog... so it must be dealt with. If Chris could take Mags back far enough..say to the Alan Davis run of the early nineties, we could do away with a lot of crap! He probably won't, but I can dream , can't I?

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:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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Postby Ghost » Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:54 pm

sure u can dream. and i hope i got an soft landing if i get on the floor again i finally found an comic store on the island i life on and i was just reading a bit from the years i missed since i life in spain. phew at least i maneded the language problem i had so i'm glad i found a store just at the rigth time to see an rebirth of the x-men and magneto how i knew then as kid when i sneaked into the collector store. sorry again for my english but well i didn't had an teacher since 8 years. so paty i'm glad your happy and i'm happy i can read spanish and english whitout searching each word in a dictionary english german spanish german . yay :oops so i'm off running the 45 miles to the comic store see u ;)
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Postby Nightcrawler ZERO » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:35 pm

Hmmm...,.

On another forum, someone posted this interesting article about Magneto's name:

http://www.alara.net/xbooks/magname.html
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Postby Paty » Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:14 pm

:mags:

from the tenor of the powt, I am guessing that Alara posted that during the Great Magneto Wars when She, rivka and Dannell Lites fought Marvel for Magneto's ethnicity and soul. They went through hoops and twisted themselves into pretzels to try and reconcile the garbage Hardass spewed about Magneto ...and forced his writers and artists to spew, as well. If Rivka ever gets a moment to get back on the board, I am quite sure she will regale us with the horror of the Magneto Wars...LOL
this, I will admit, was during the time when I could either not afford comics and/or when I could not read them because of the eyes. I am doing better these days...heheheheheee

Ghostie, dear, do you get recent issues in Spanish? Or do you have to wade through English/Spanish dictionaries? and how recent is "recent"? Have you seen the abomination that is Planet X? PTUI! If you have Excalibur one and are a Magneto fan, ou have to be as thrilled as the rest of us die hard Claremont Magneto fans!!!
It is soo good to hear from people in other parts of the world who have a mindset like ours. I know Lady Orla over on the MML has her own website devoted to Magneto and Rogue...as a followup to the Savage Land saga...it is called Magnetic Attractions...and is enjoyable to visit.
Meanwhile, time marches on to this wednesday, which is, heh heh, preview day for Excalibur two!!!
Bells on, everybody!!! Happy nekkid pagan dance around the halls!!!

YeeeeHAAAAAA!!!
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:mags:
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
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Postby LadyErin » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:29 am

YAY! Not only is Paty back but the Magneto thread is back! *does a happy dance: party*

Ok, I can be serious now. Maybe. For a while.

That's what I was thinking, that he can’t be killed. Or at least easily killed, despite the lines of bull that Marvel wants to spin and try to sell. I mean really, how do you stop much less kill a force of nature? Because that’s what he is. You would need to sever him from the Earth’s EM field, since his tie to it would be so strong at this point in his life that he probably needs to make an effect to stop connecting to it. And then the Sun is just a ball of magnetic energy, so then block him from that. Then his body completely destroyed. But with the Shadow King and Betsy…they survived on the astral plane correct? Without a body? It stands to reason that because Magneto can access the astral field he could survive there too. So then you have an astral entity to deal with. Paty, you know more about that than me. Much more. So, Paty, if anyone wants to know what that would entail, I bow to your experience.

But I’m getting more and more eager to see what Chris will do. It’s been a while since I trusted that what was done for the characters would be what is best for them, what is true to them and not some half baked marketing ploy that will backfire or leave the character(s) and continuity in shambles. Once burned, twice wary I guess. But that’s a whole other rant. Nonetheless trust Chris, I do. I’ve driving my family nucking futs. And yes, I did whoop and holler although I doubt you mean me. It was wonderful to see and I hunted loose change in the house until I came up with enough money to by it the week after.

Originally posted by Paty
From my fervent lips to the ears of the Bright Lady!


I’ll add my prayers to that.

Originally posted by Paty
but i'm gonna call em and tell them to reserve that preview ish for me!
pant...pant...


You’re as bad as me. ;) Course that is a wonderful trait, love for (and lust of) Magneto.

Do a Doctoral dissertation on Magneto and his impact? My dream come true. A way to combine my obsession with Magneto, with my calling pysch and soc. Matter a fact for my senior psychology and sociology capstone/thesis paper I might try that. (and yes, I doubled majored. Yes, I’m both ambitious and fool enough to double major) And no, nothing in X-lore is flat. Not anymore. They wouldn’t hold my attention if they were. A for instance, over in LiveJournal we are discussing Movieverse Magneto. Not my favorite incarnation (and call me silly but I will always love TAS Magneto best, simply because he was the first Magneto I ever met-but more on that later) but an interesting one. What prompted this was a wonderful written movieverse fic about Magneto and his encounter with someone from his past. Mind you it is rated ‘NC-17 for aftermath of extreme violence. Disturbing themes’â€
http://lady_erin.livejournal.com
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Postby Panz » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:55 pm

So, it'll be interesting to see how Mags is going to clear his name , if he even plans to. If that wasn't him in NYC, Who was it? Who framed him and why?....this is going to get veeeeeery interesting.
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Postby scheherazade » Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:05 pm

Indeed, Panz... Veeeery Interesting. *ponders deviously* Although, I was reading Interview with Chuck Austin and he talks about Marvel's decision to bring back both Mags and Xorn. I wonder how long they're going to have the person I'm assuming to be imposter!mags being Xorn, and how long he was the real Xorn for. Wow... That's really confusing. You know, that means that there was someone pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn?

Ok... so I just thought about that, and came up with a theory on who/what the imposter!mags was. I think it was probably a very high-level metamorph, better than Mystique, who was able to imitate not only someones looks, but also their distinctive smell, and their brain chemistry (so people like wolverine or a telepath wouldn't recognise them) and also imitate their powers. There. I like my theory. Now all that's missing is a motive... but anyway.
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Postby Panz » Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:36 pm

*nods* I like you theory as well. Motive?....we don't need no steenking motive heeheehee! No really...Insanity, megalomania...perhaps it is a mutant who hates all of mutant kind, even his/herself and wants to make as much trouble for them as possible. Some one with a personal bone to pick with Mags...from how I read the last few pages, it looks like Xavier was expecting mags and knew he was 1. not dead and 2. on Genosha or would meet him on Genosha....It's only been one issue and Chris has already got me tied in knots...a pox on him, the dastardly fellow!

I'm embarrassed to admit that I like Wicked...I used to BE Wicked many moons ago, when I was still a silly little git. :p dressed like that too...only I had purple hair.:D

And nasty old thing that I am, I think Mags looks yummy in civvys...put the man in a pair of tight trousers and I'll follow him anywhere :naughty
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Postby LadyErin » Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:55 pm

Yes, he does. :lick But then, put that man in anything or nothing :naughty and I would still follow him anywhere.

And yes, a self-hating metamorph! That works! BTW, I uploaded about half of my magneto scans and clips. You can see them here
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Postby Nightcrawler ZERO » Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:30 am

Possibly Magneto's Mummandrai? (What Cassie Nova is)

Joseph wasn't as dead as once thought, and wanted revenge on Magneto?

Escaped clone?

Identical twin brother who Mags abandoned while escapeing Auswitz?
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Postby LadyErin » Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:12 am

I highly doubt it was a twin. He wouldn't have been in the SK if he had a twin. (Well, comic wise he was in the SK)
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Postby Diablo » Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:32 pm

Oh, Paty is back ! :)

And she wants to talk about Magnus. How bizarre ! ;)

I don't know how Marvel will erase the Planet X fiasco.
But I'm glad they do it !

Magneto won't be killed. Because he's the best antagonist for the X-Men. He's a really important, charismatic and complex character, just like Doctor Doom in the FF series.

:bamf+:doom+:magneto= the coolest characters ever !
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Postby Paty » Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:39 pm

:mags
OY! the luck I have been having! First the computer goes down and they have to commpletely rebuild it...which means I lose all my files...but they do actually save some in an "old files" folder for me.
then I have visitors for two weeks and cannot get to my computer cuz I just don't have time! and this week has been wall to wall thunderstorms and a tornado warning yesterday!!! supposedly near here!!! We saw black clouds to beat the band...but thankfully no funnel cloud!
So I am back for a short visit between thunderstorms...since they are constantly firing up this week and I shut down everything when they come through!

PANZ!!! How are you girl? Dave heard at the con inCharolette that you were under the ewather or had surgery or some such! Are you OK? It is sooo good to see you on the board!

Sad to say that I didn't get the advance copy of Excalibur 2...they sold it just befor I got there!!! So I had to wait for the real issue..BUT...
ZOWIE!!! DAMN!!! HE LOOKS GREAT!!!
and he's a reasonable man, too. YAY!!! Chris is gonna establish that that bozo in PX was obviously not him! So, obviously he wasn't Xorn! So who is Xorn? and who was the Imposter?
Doesn't Chris keep you rivited to the edge of your seat? DAmn! It is about time Marvel wised up and let him run with his talent.
Harras editing Claremont was like hamstringing Secretariat! A crime against nature and better business.
Now, if Marvel only has the sense to let him alone and let him rebuild his corner of the X empire!!!

I, along with Rivka, fear that the howls and prostations of the Morrison mindslaves on all the other boards are gonna make Marvel wonder if they have done the right thing.

HEY, MARVEL!!! YOU DID THE RIGHT THING WHEN YOU GAVE CLAREMONT HIS HEAD!!! DON'T SCREW IT UP !!! LET HIM RUN!!!

Ok...sorry.. sometimes you gotta beat stupid business types and bigotted editorial types over the head with what is patently obvious to the intelligent readershiip!

sigh...

Anyway E2 was such a treat you could hear my whoops and gurgles for miles! I pick it up each day and drool all over it! And, yes, wait for the next issue like a teenager all over again!

Mags is my age...I got dibsies on him, gals...LOL...drool...slobber... yeah...he looks good incivvies...I still want him back in his duds...or a workable equivalent. I also wish they would give him come color in the next movie. I really hate the "black on everybody so they will take it seriously" look! Whatta ya want? Yellow spandex? YEAH!!! that's exactly what I want! It works for Spidey and DD...it can work for X people too...if it is played seriously and realistically! Costumes do not have to equate with "camp"...and shouldn't. The modified costume of the Excalibur
3 cover is fine! If that is the costume they give him in the third movie, I will be pleased as punch. Ian cannot fill out the comics coltume as it should be filled...ahem... no, not there...sigh... I am talking pecs...biceps, triceps, abs...sigh... but the costume on E3 would work magnificantly...no pun intended.

There is some scuttlebut on the boards about the discrepancy in the Auschwitz number on Magneto's arm. And this may present a problem...but I understood why Claremont changed it.
Back when Dave was drawing the Uncanny title, I believe...161 or thereabouts, the story with Baron Strucker.. probably what happened was that indiscussing Magneto they said to each other"hey, if he's an Auschwitz survivor, he needs a number...since all the holocaust survivors have their numbers tattooed on their arms..." or something like that...So Dave gave him a number. But, correct me if I am wrong, you bibliophiles out there... but didn't that number run around the arm? It should have run the length of the arm as shown here in E2. I think Chris is going for a specific timeframe at Auschwitz, since Rivka, a scholar of such things, tells me that certain numbers are traceable to certain periods in the registry at Auschwitz. so my bet is that Chris is establishing ...via the number itself... when he was there. The number that Dave gave him could have been a mistaken memory of Xavier's. I am betting that Chris is gonna establish HIS Mags as the one and only true Magneto!!! So firmly and clearly that there will be no room for screwing around with it. He is gonna establish once and for all that Magneto was and is a GOOD man who has issues and a problem with controlling his powers and how they affect him. He may even establish that the sun has a factor in the headaches or the effect that it has on magneto's sanity. Who knows? Now's the time to do it, Chris...if you're listening!
Do it well, kiddo...as I know you can!
You got my vote...and my bucks!
WHEEEEEEE!!!! Heeee's BACK!!!
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Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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Postby LadyErin » Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:16 am

Paty! I've missed you!

And I did mail Rivka and ask if I could post from her "Magneto is Jewish FAQ" thing posted on Alara's site. She said she didn't mind so long as I gave credit. Which I would of course. So as soon as we get more info, and she gives more background, I'll post more stuff. Well, info and background are kinda the same thing here.
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Postby Northstars Love » Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:25 am

Good to see you back. Had computer problems myself Paty. HD was wiped clean and I started anew. What a pain in the ass! :mad

E2 was awesome! I'm just as thrilled to have Mags back as you are! As for the Mags haters, deal with it! Morrison's Planet X arc basically went out the window with the emergence of the real Mags. YAY!

Whom better to know Mags then you and Rivka about the number on his arm. But are some fans really intent in finding out if the number really is legit to that period? Claremont had to do some research of course if this is true. Makes sense. Most writers have to when they write about real history as opposed to fictional works.

If the number is found to be incorrect for the time...heh... I can see the uproar about this on the other boards! :rolleyes lol
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby kladyelf » Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:56 am

*throws a discreet sheet over Paty*
Just in case you're still doing the happy-nekkid dance.... :LOL Yes i have to admit i'm finding Excalibur 2 pretty good ... loyalty to the original series notwithstanding.

*listens to purse whimper in pain*

but seriously tho :D if you wanna know who "Xorneto" was i've got a thread speculating who he was over in the Off-Topics section called "Who was that masked man?" :shifty :puzzle

.... or alternately you could just bug bamfette into telling you, my pester powers seem to have diminished somewhat. ;)
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To Stupidityyyyy - and beyond!

*after reading the latest gory/depressing "mainstream" comic* ....*sigh* that's it, I'm packin' up and moving back to the Eighties...
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby LadyErin » Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:51 am

Originally posted by kladyelf
but seriously tho :D if you wanna know who "Xorneto" was i've got a thread speculating who he was over in the Off-Topics section called "Who was that masked man?" :shifty :puzzle


Actually it's in here.;)
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby BH123 » Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:46 pm

How should Magneto be written? Good question.

As I posted on the X-Universe board at http://www.comicboards.com, the question of whether or not Magneto was out of character in "Planet X" depends entirely upon which Magneto we are talking about. Are we referring to...

the original Stan Lee & Jack Kirby "I am a one-dimensional Hitler-esque ranting megalomaniac who thinks mutants are superior to humans" Magneto?

the Chris Claremont-penned retcon "Oh, by the way, I spent my childhood in a Nazi death camp, and saw my entire family murdered by humans, and that's why I'm in such a bad mood, and my actions are entirely justified" Magneto?

the "I'm still in a bad mood because of the Holocaust but maybe I need to reassess my course of action and try to work with Xavier" Magneto?

the "I tried Xavier's way and couldn't get it to work for me, so I'm going to kinda sorta go back to my prior ways, but with less ruthlessness than before" Magneto?

the "I just found out my mental profile had been fudged by Moira McTaggert, casting doubt on my choice of free will in all my recent actions" Magneto?

the "Hey, wouldn't it be fun to tastelessly crash Illyana Rasputin's funeral in a melodramatic recruitment drive for my Acolytes" Magneto?

the "Oh, I'm back to wanting to conquer the world and wiping out humanity, so I might as well use the mutant population of Genosha as my army" Magneto?

or the "Ha ha ha, all this time I was Xorn, but now I'm back, taking drugs, and wrecking NYC, but my followers think I am a twit" Magneto?

There have been soo many disparate, contradictory portrayals of Magneto over the past four decades that it is impossible to reconcile them all. Trying to do so is futile and pointless.

In the end, the Magneto from "Planet X" is just as valid an interpretation as the Mangeto who is now rooming with Xavier in the new Excalibur series.

Of course, feel free to disagree :D
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby LadyErin » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:54 am

Originally posted by BH123
How should Magneto be written? Good question.

As I posted on the X-Universe board at http://www.comicboards.com, the question of whether or not Magneto was out of character in "Planet X" depends entirely upon which Magneto we are talking about. Are we referring to...


Hope you don’t mind me using these as a list.

1. the original Stan Lee & Jack Kirby "I am a one-dimensional Hitler-esque ranting megalomaniac who thinks mutants are superior to humans" Magneto?

This works just fine. Provided, of course, you are willing to write the other characters in this flat, one-demessional manner. But then, I am reminded of my dear Dr. Ron, who said something alone the lines of
All human behavior makes sense. Sometimes only to the person at the time they commit the action. But everything has a reason. No one acts just because. It all makes sense.

So it begs the question as to why Magneto acted in such a manner. Enter Chris.

2. the Chris Claremont-penned retcon "Oh, by the way, I spent my childhood in a Nazi death camp, and saw my entire family murdered by humans, and that's why I'm in such a bad mood, and my actions are entirely justified" Magneto?

This explains a lot of Magneto’s truly horrible behavior. In my opinion (and I’m just a psychology student, so ask me again after I earn my degree) Magneto suffers from a minor case of Manic Depressive (aka Bi-Polar Disorder) which is aggravated due to his helmet pulsing his powers back on his brainwaves; a moderate to serve case of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder); Survivor’s Guilt; and possibly something else. But I do not think that his past justifies his actions although it does case me to look at them differently.

3. the "I'm still in a bad mood because of the Holocaust but maybe I need to reassess my course of action and try to work with Xavier" Magneto?

I think this is a natural progression of Magneto. He has now realized he is becoming the one thing he hates/fears and has committed atrocious actions against humanity. So he now tries to atone for his actions.

4. the "I tried Xavier's way and couldn't get it to work for me, so I'm going to kinda sorta go back to my prior ways, but with less ruthlessness than before" Magneto?

This strongly points to something that needs to be said. Magneto needs the emotional support of others. Xavier-one of the few people that really knows him- is gone. The other X-men left him. He was taking care of teenage mutants when he has never parented a teenager before. He doesn’t have the life experiences (he was hardly a teenager himself, just went from child to adult as his life demanded) the parenting skills (his first daughter died as a child, Wanda and Pietro…well, he was terrible with them) the training or education (which speaks of gross negligence on the part of Xavier and the other X-men) to do what was asked of him.

5. the "I just found out my mental profile had been fudged by Moira McTaggert, casting doubt on my choice of free will in all my recent actions" Magneto?

Given his past and his treatment under the SK and watching what Dr. Mengele did to ‘his’ children and factoring a case of PTSD this is a logical reaction, actually.

6, the "Hey, wouldn't it be fun to tastelessly crash Illyana Rasputin's funeral in a melodramatic recruitment drive for my Acolytes" Magneto?

Hey, I never said he was a ‘nice’ or ‘good’ guy by traditional terms. But if he where in a manic episode, (which could be the case, and probably was) then yes, this too is logical.

7. the "Oh, I'm back to wanting to conquer the world and wiping out humanity, so I might as well use the mutant population of Genosha as my army" Magneto?

I can see that. Manic ideas, paranoia, and access to power makes for a bad combination, and he was injured at the time, no? So it makes sense that he would want to be well armed.

8. or the "Ha ha ha, all this time I was Xorn, but now I'm back, taking drugs, and wrecking NYC, but my followers think I am a twit" Magneto?

This is the one that comes from no where. Mags is a drinker, yes. A genius? Of course. A sneak? Well duh. The man was a double agent.
But a drug addict? No. (And believe me, I know drug addicts) Xorneto’s behavior was of a hard core drug addict that had been abusing the drug for a long time. A liar? Well, not a good one.
And remember-Logan didn’t know that Xorn and Magneto were the same person. And he should have. They would smell different after all.

There have been soo many disparate, contradictory portrayals of Magneto over the past four decades that it is impossible to reconcile them all. Trying to do so is futile and pointless.

In the end, the Magneto from "Planet X" is just as valid an interpretation as the Mangeto who is now rooming with Xavier in the new Excalibur series.


See, I think if you look, and study, human behavior, you see that Magneto has been consistent until Planet X. Then this behavior comes from no where. It could have been done in such a way that it could have been Magneto. But it wasn’t. So now it needs to be fixed.
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby BH123 » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:37 pm

Originally posted by LadyErin

This explains a lot of Magneto’s truly horrible behavior. In my opinion (and I’m just a psychology student, so ask me again after I earn my degree) Magneto suffers from a minor case of Manic Depressive (aka Bi-Polar Disorder) which is aggravated due to his helmet pulsing his powers back on his brainwaves; a moderate to serve case of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder); Survivor’s Guilt; and possibly something else. But I do not think that his past justifies his actions although it does case me to look at them differently.

(SNIP!)

See, I think if you look, and study, human behavior, you see that Magneto has been consistent until Planet X. Then this behavior comes from no where. It could have been done in such a way that it could have been Magneto. But it wasn’t. So now it needs to be fixed.


Interesting anlysis of the psychology of Magneto. I wish that the writers would delve into this material in the actual stories, instead of just sticking the character in a "good guy/bad guy" revolving door that goes round and round.

I think that one of the (probably unintentional) problems with retconning Magneto to be a Holocaust survivor is that for many people this provides some sort of excuse for all his actions. Whic is totally wrong. Magneto's past explains many of his actions, but it should certainly not serve as some sort of automatic get-out-of-jail-free card.

Traumatic, nightmarish childhood or not, Magneto went on to commit many, many horrible acts against others as an adult. As you said, it is obvious that he is burdened by severe psychological disorders and unresolved issues from his youth. He has a lot of major problems, and that makes him a very dangerous individual.

I always saw Claremont's backstory as an explanation for why Magneto did what he did. I certainly don't see it as any sort of justification. If anything, it makes his actions worse, because he willingly became the exact sort of genocidal tyrant that destroyed his family. Magneto cut himself off from his humanity & his conscience, and buried them underneath a selfish, sadistic, power-hungry persona.

In the end, Magneto is still responsible for all of the ruthless terrorist actions he committed in the stories by Stan Lee and Roy Thomas. There are certain mitigating circumstances, yes, but they do not simply erase his guilt.
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby scheherazade » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:09 pm

Originally posted by BH123
I always saw Claremont's backstory as an explanation for why Magneto did what he did. I certainly don't see it as any sort of justification. If anything, it makes his actions worse, because he willingly became the exact sort of genocidal tyrant that destroyed his family. Magneto cut himself off from his humanity & his conscience, and buried them underneath a selfish, sadistic, power-hungry persona.


I concurr!

I think, as far as retcons go, making Mags a Holocaust victim was damn good. It explains so much, and leads to more intriguing ideas and plots than any other "origin" for the master of magnetism.

I was coming back from watching Spiderman 2 with a friend and my brother, and we were trying to figure out which other bad guys would show up in the inevitable 3 and 4. I mentioned that dr. conners (i think that's his name? he's the guy who will be Lizard) was mentioned in the first movie, and (i think) at one point was supposed to be the villian for the second movie. My brother asked about how he became a giant lizard, and I found myself parroting back the same origin for almost any spidy baddie. (and spidy himself, too!)

Lizard - is left criminaly insane after a labratory experiment goes bad
Green Goblin - is left criminaly insane after a labratory experiment goes bad
Doc Oc - is left criminaly insane after a labratory experiment goes bad
Hydro-man... even.

and any who don't have that exact MO, have a really similar one, like Electro, who accidentilly got electrocuted and mutated, and then went evil.

that whole shtick is tired and not that interesting anymore. but Magneto... there's and interesting origin:

tortured in childhood, once he finds his powers his sense of betrayal and vengance cause him to become the thing he loathes most in the world.

most excellent
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby LadyErin » Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:29 pm

Originally posted by BH123
I think that one of the (probably unintentional) problems with retconning Magneto to be a Holocaust survivor is that for many people this provides some sort of excuse for all his actions. Whic is totally wrong. Magneto's past explains many of his actions, but it should certainly not serve as some sort of automatic get-out-of-jail-free card.


Well, for some people it may excuse them. I don’t think it does. Saying “This is why he acted thus…â€
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby Paty » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:31 am

:mags
Hell's Bells! It HAS happened again! genosha was a Holocaust of sixteen million Mutants...if we are to believe the count we were given...although how that many people could have gotten there in such a short time beggers the imagination and boggles the mind...what? they shipped them in in tanker loads?
but I shall not quibble... sixteen million give or take...mutants killed...um without a finger being lifted ...riiiiight...OK... does anybody believe this?

We know by now that the IMPOSTER in Planet X was just that... an IMMPOSTER!! wolvie didn't smell him as magneto.. and I trust Wolvie's nose!!! And Hank McCoy's!!! They didn't smell Magneto... so it couldn't have been him. I don't even care who it was! It wasn't Mags!
Now, I hear the Morrison groupies are stomping up and down about the Xorn thing waving firebrands and screaming bloody blue murder that their god's wonderful crapola is being messed with. And they don't even care that their leader says "It's OK, you little idiots!" So something else is going on here..AGAIN... uz the little bozos simply won't follow their tin god over to DC and leave us happy Magophiles alone!

If we look at the explanations for Magneto's behavior in a physiological vein, we see that early irrational behavior was explained by the genetic flaw that Moira found when he was in her care ...AND CORRECTED!...thus opening the gates for him to use his power without it backing up and making him irrational. That he reacted badly to this revelation ...considering his background... is entirely logical. But it does not negate that he now can act rationally iIF HIS POWER DOESN'T BACK UP ON HIM!

But does it? Does the helmet actually cause feedback even as it protects him from other things? Could be. Does the sporatic but humongously powerful electromagnetic activity of the sun and sunspots have a backlogging effect? Can... as I have always suspected... Magneto actually harness not only the strong magnetic flux of the earth, but the sun as well? If he is processing these energies...and remember the sun's energies ar a whole lot more erratic than the earth's... and is not cognizant of the power backkup and overflow of a sunspot...simply because he doesn't realize he is drawing from that source, then he hasn't been consciously dealing with the erratic nature of the flow. Could this be the reason for his bipolar fluctuations? A physiological reason...exacerbated by his emotional state?! A double whammy as it were?
Once again, an explanation...not an excuse. aBut, how to deal with this if it is true?

We do note that Magneto does well and acts reasonably and responsibly when he is getting laid...uh... when he has constant female companionship...and regular sexual gratification. Look at his behavior when he was married to Magda. A steady, considered husband until trauma forced him into the psychotic break that activated his powers. Later, the interlude with Isabel...once again, a lovelife and he acted rational...if driven to find the Nazi fugitives. And again with Lee Forrester. A rational and considered man while he was connected to her...uh... no pun intended.

There is a behavioral pattern here and a possible pathway for his salvation and the salvation of the world from his actions or possible actions.

The man needs socialization...especially familial socialization. He needs a woman he can trust and love to cuddle with...who can soothe the savage beast that lies in the lair of his soul.

Um... I got a candidate...although right now she is stupidly playing house with a Cagin walking talking rectum...sigh...

The greatest fear that Rivka and I have is that the screaming bratpack of Morrisonites will so inflluence Marvel idiots that they won't give Chris a chance to go where Magneto needs to be taken.

The internet is a wonderful thing for fan interaction...but when a mob of wolvish children can drown out the considered opinions of mature readers one begins to wonder if it isn't more a bane than a boon.

Back in the halcyon days of yore when Chris and Dave were bringing the X universe into being, they used to get boxes and boxes of fan letters. Now some of these were considered discussions of motivations and directions of character development ... and some were crayon on lined paper... and you could easily see the difference, consider the points made and discuss them without public pressure on either writers, artists or editors...much less the brain dead business types.. And the raving lunatics didn't get together in a band and seek to browbeat a company into doing what THEY and only they wanted. All aspectsof character development were in the hands of the writers and artists and editors... not the fans. The different aspects of the characters got their turn at the forefront. The creators could ... and DID... consider what educated and erudite readers had to say without being browbeaten in public ... and having to defend their stories and reasoning to screaming mobs who don't want to listen because their favorite writer isn't the one talking. The internet is fostering anarchy...mob rule... and the people at Marvel who make the decisions as to where the books and characters are going are too easily swayed by what they percieve is a wave of fan opinion...when it is only a vocal minority. The unvocal majority are tired of fighting the screaming children and are just suffering in silence or turning away indisgust at the devolvement of the artform.

And it seems the Master and his characterization is at the center of the controversy.

Now, this kind of thing simply does not happen with one dimensional characters. chuck Austen started to do the same sort of thing with Juggernaut that Chris Claremont did with Magneto. Do we hear howls of protest about Juggy? "Take him back! Make him an eeeevilvillain again!!!"? I havennn't heard any. The tide isn't rising to form a "Return the Juggernaut to his pristine original characterization...the Stan Lee one dimensional characterization... again!!!"

Nope..nada...

So what is it about Magneto? Because it IS Magneto! It is not Xorn...although they are using the Xorn/Magneto supposed connection to whoop and holler about. No, it's not really about Xorn...it is about Magneto.

Wolverine kills people...nobody is gonna lobotomize him for it. Iwould daresay that if you really looked at Wolvie, that he has killed, in his lifetime, far greater numbers than Magneto ever dreamed of killing! Does Logan elicit the rabid response for his misdeeds that Magneto does? No he does not. Cassandra Nova kills SIXTEEN MILLION and gets a basic education and a "no supervision...get home free" pass. Not even a slap on the wrist! And my bet is she's behind the whole Planet X mess. But does she get villified as Magneto does time and time again? She didn't even have a decent explanation for her motivations...much less an excuse!!! And Morrison had the balls to have logan caller "Missy Cassie" a hundred fifty years from now??? Gimme a break! BARF! BARF!!! BARF!!! there are so many more villainous without excuse villains that it boggles the mind that there has been a decade long WAR over this one character.

Psychological discussions rage. Physiological discussions rage. Fanfic steams the glasses!...and worse...LOL...Magneto stirs the emotions in a way that no other character in the history of comics does. So why would anyone want him to be devolved into the stupid, puerile, waste of a one dimensional character again??? Publishers... of mental clarity and high business acumen...all over the world search for a characte that will generate such controversy and loyalty!!! And marvel is so stupid that they let bigotry rob them of the loyal readership for over a decade!

but heeeee's back! Can't keep a GOOD Magneto down! Heheheheheheee!

It's all mixed up with his Jewish background and a bigoted faction at Marvel and the new internet cult of favored writers and little tin gods and egos and office politics and one upsmanship and favoritism and nepotism and a bunch of things that should never come into play in creative writing...but do.

but if a person like Magneto did exist...how, indeed, would we deal with such a wonder.. such a treasure... such a horror???!!! Does anything we are doing in modern thought prepare us for the kind of person that Magneto is...or has been... or will become?

We better be thinking about it. I hear the first truely mutant gene has been found in an infant who is less than a year old and has the physical development of a seven year old in muscle tone and minature physiology. They have done DNA studies and found a true gene mutation that has produced this anomaly and they have no idea yet, because of the age of the child.. what this mutation means or will mean for the kid as it grows. The Mutant age is manifesting even as we speak...or type, as the case may be...and we had better be ready for it!

The times they are a-chyangin'...and they are getting more and more interesting and exciting!
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