GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Post by Paty » Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:39 am

:mags
Well... since original pencils are inked... I would imagine not... the inker could have been told to make him modest... and that's just a guess... but I would love to think Lee did that. He did show him nekkid in 275 even if WE didn't see anything interesting... Rogue did... and it's my bet that it wasn't for the FIRST time! LOL...
Oh, I'm bad...
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEEEEE..
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:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
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Post by LadyErin » Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:25 pm

But that's why we love you!

And I'll side with you on that bet.

On a unrelated note....*thumps head into keyboard after reading an email that states RBM was a great writer of Chris's caliber*

I think things are going to get ugly...*goes off to reply and defend Magneto*
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Post by Paty » Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:57 pm

"mags
RBM's lackeys abound...they are like gnats... irritating to the Nth degree...always buzzing around and making life miserable...and with such miniscule intellect that it is amazing that they can even exist, much less be such an annoyance! BUt... there they are! You swat one down and another zooms in to "bug " you...sigh...

Y'know, in the good ol' days when when people actually wrote snail mail fan letters, we used to get fans like that. "I hate ...insert victim writer or artist... he STINKS! I am not gonna buy this book! I am not gonna read this stuff! they need to do it THIS way!" Implying that they were little gods and knew ALL! Heh...get al letter of that tone, shitcann it sooooo fast.
But the internet has given the mindless a forum. And, like gnats, they swarm in ever increasing numbers...making life for everyone miserable.
The only thing one can do is aim the RAID of intellect at them and say your piece and hope it proves lethal. At least it will fell some of them... for a while, anyway. But they abound, so more will come back...to annoy and try to make the current writer produc the same kind of dead writing they want and got from the former one... to feed on... like the insects that they so greatly resemble.

Ah well... since Marvel found out what happens when you let the brain dead write major characters...not only does everything die and stink to high heaven, but you have these nasty gnats wanting more...let us hope that Marvel has learned a sharp lesson. Of course, to learn a lesson, you have to have some kind of viable intellect... and i am not sure Marvel corporate and editorial minds are so endowed. They haven't shown much good sense or taste in the past several years! ...decade?

And an hellacious lot of the machinations, plots, subplots, political intrigue, inter office maneuvering, backstabbing, coercion, sneakiness, secrecy, childishness, jealousy and sabotage has revolved around Magneto! Like planets around a sun! Dependant on the wellspring of energy and life giving light that star exudes. Some planets are dead and lifeless and of little conesquence... but some, like that green one, jealousy, fester and spread poison throughout the solar gravity well... trying to kill the very thing that helps to sustain them. Ablolutely amazing!

Ah well...off you go... do battle in Magneto's name!
LOL

Paty
:mags
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Post by LadyErin » Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:04 pm

I think I scared the little piss ant off....:LOL
Me:
To compare Morrison's muck and mire to Claremont's writing is like comparing a preschooler's finger paintings to the Mona Lisa. How the run started, I don't know, but it finished horribly. Plots holes so large a damn *planet* could fall though do not a "great writer" nor a "better X-Men run" make; coupled with no respect for the work of other writers, not to mention Marvel cannon, about sum it up.
. I actually was pretty polite until he suggested that it was RBM's idea to have the "Magneto" be an imposter. That he didn't mean it to be Magneto at all. I went rather livid. Got worse when he said, "Don't be one of the guys that threatened to kill Ron Marz because Hal Jordan died; it's not healthy for you or the comics community in general."

Excuse me, me fighting for continuity, good and responsible writing, and common respect are bad? *breath, breath* Ok, I'm alright. But after my last reply, he has responded, and that was more than a day ago. Guess I shut him up. For now.
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Post by Paty » Mon Sep 06, 2004 8:35 pm

:mags
Don't count on it! They regroup and try another tactic if one they are pursuing fails. They love to twist what you are saying to make it fit their secnerios or way of thinking. Hitleresque tactics if there ever were any. the brownshirt training tactics mirror the attack of the mindslaves. fortunately Morrison has burned his bridges behind him and will , with any luck, never return to Marvel! Good riddance. Now if the mindslaves would only follow him and shut the hell up! So the rest of us can enjoy some good writing for a change!

Carry on, dear... the battle is a good one... and a lot of us older folk just don't have the energy any more to fight on the front lines... and we must fight. These little shits take silence as acquiesence... which it is not necessarilly.
sigh...they keep saying that they will not buy the books and since they quote panel and page, it is obvious that they ARE buying the books...I just wish they would follow their demented god into the obscurity his talent will make for them. but they like the spotlight, don't they? Puerile.

Carry on, soldier!
LOL
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:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
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Post by LadyErin » Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:04 pm

Yes, I know. Like roaches, you scrap on off the bottom of your shoe and twenty more crawl out from under the wall....

Actually, I gave him homework. He said that he didn't mind knowing the facts of history and wanted to know where I based my statement that Magneto was Jewish. So I copied/pasted the quote from UXM 274 where he describes what he did. Explained that that meant he was a Sonderkommando and told him to go look it up.

I wonder if he did....(probably not but eh, I tried).

And it's probably a good thing I am never silent then. They seem to be rather...ummmm....childish and ethnocentric comes to mind.

LOL, Yes Ma'am!;)
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Post by Paty » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:35 am

:mags
Heh... not unlike the children they emulate, they will attempt to wear you down... and we can't take them over our knees for a good spanking... which might drive home some attention to manners and the fact that they don't know everything! LOL...
Let us know if he did his homework and his comments... I am willing to bet he didn't... and if he did, he will twist twhatever he reads to reflect kindly on his little tin god. PTUI ! They do that...it's seemingly what they live for...
Cockroaches, indeed...

Have you seen the newest Excalibur? Not much of Mags in it and what there is is him sitting there reading Kipling... with glasses on...not unlike the last time we saw hin in Ultimate X...magnifiers... LOL... logical and somewhat charming... LOL... I actually liked the incredulity in Ultimate with which he told Xavier of actual proposals of marriage and the fact that it seemed the bigger threat you were, the better you got treated in prison! Y'know something? He was probably right!
HA!
LOL
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:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
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Post by Panz » Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:50 pm

heehee! I have yet to get the newest issue. Had to get our decrepit old truck repaired first, but hopefully I can pick it up today. Kipling huh? Mags has good taste in literature. I hope this title makes it. I'm afraid to get too attached to it.

But you both are right, it seems that comics in general are incredibly WASP. Most of the readers are white males. It is VERY difficult to get anything but white male characters to the forefront in a title, unless, of course, they are female and take off most of thier clothing :p

The arguement over whether Mags if Jewish or not, which is just blind ignorance on the part of those arguing against it, make me think of the idiots who write all of the "Holocaust revisionist" books and the white supremist sites who claim that Hitler was framed. I have had some serious wars going with some of the morons on these sites before. They won't believe the truth, because they don't want to. I'm afraid that the more Claremont brings Magneto's ethnicity into the forefront, the louder the opposition crowd will bitch that Clarmont is mis-writing "Morrisons character" *yawn* :smirk I have such a hard time not playing with people who are intentional idiots...they twitch so well :toothy...

Not that all comic readers are ethnocentric drones, but I think a certain stripe of them certainly are and they want everything to conform to thier own vision of what the world is. Mainstream comics panders to them for the most part, but with characters like Mags, and Hub and Storm and Shola, there is a strong insurgence of ethnic diversity. It is still a safer bet to make the ethnically different character female; strong ethnic male characters, unless they are sterotyped to hell and back, scare the mostly white male readers I think.

...I'm starting to ramble...time for some tea.
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Post by Paty » Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:55 pm

:mags
Heh... Actually, Panz, you are correct. the comics biz... with very few exceptions... is run by and for white males of European descent. girls are for T and A windowdressing... with the occasional dominatrix thrown in for eye candy for the closet D and S group. but even then, they wimp them out. these pud pullers wouldn't know what to do with a strong female!
Take Emma, for instance. whiney, kininving, sneaky...wearing essentially a white dominatrix costume...at least at first... when she was bitch queen of the hellfire club. but wimped down for X dom...sigh. Y'see... it's a rule... if you are a female hero, you cannot be anything but wimpy... or conflicted or powerless or confused or not in control of your power...or... well... you know... It makes the males feel sooooooo strong and manly.
BARF...PTUI...
sorry, you guys who are looking in on this... but it's the truth. You see an occasional strong female... cuz writers like Chris love strong women... and write them that way. But chris is being besieged by little jerks and jerkoffs who are terrified of strong women and too stupid to understand, much less enjoy, complexity in characterization. They do "female oriented" books without a female in sight in a creative role. Like they know anything about how a female thinks and lives. They know how they WANT a female to think and act... but reality escapes them. And this is the fare they spew... fodder for like minds...they actively cultivate the juvenile male populace... and no one else... cuz it is easy to write for that kind of mentality... simply because it is the level of their own mentality. If others of greater intellect read their drioppings, fine... but that is not their target market.
This has been the formula for a long time. And it has worked... up till now. But, unbeknownst to them, the demographics have changed! The target audience nowadays is really not reading a lot of comics. The target audience is playing interactive video games... because they are more interesting and action packed and the target audience can interact better with the video game than it can with the comic book that they have to READ!
So the field is left to the slightly older adolescent males who were reading before the computer age and palmsized video games... and females whom the books are certainly NOT aimed at... and older readers who are getting tired of juvenile schlock and British morbundity and cynicism... and little else.
It's no wonder the biz is in the shitter! But, as I have said before... I think DC has a better handle on it right now because Paul Levitz is no dummy. I just hope he is keeping an eye on RBM over there. I would hate to see RBM do to DC what he did to Marvel. I think DC has too much sense to give him the carte blanche that Marvel did... at least I hope so.

All we can do is speak our piece to the powers that be... support Chris and Mags and hang in there and enjoy for as long as possible! don't let the creepoids keep you from enjoying Mags and what Chris is doing. If that happens, they will have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Enjoy it to the fullest... and if Marvel lets the pissants dictate to them and start interfering with Chris's ability to repair the gaping holes, well ...when they fuck it up... just walk away and stop spending money and let the beggers go bankrupt... again! sometimes people have to learn the hard way.

Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
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Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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Post by LadyErin » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:50 am

Don't they ever! And the little bug hasn't answered. Not a peep. It's nice actually. Quite. Panz, Paty, I'm really glad to know I'm not alone in this. I mean, X-men should written for people that are outside the mainstream. And yet, it is not. A sad, sad day when a door made of outcasts isn't written for them. *sigh*
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Post by Paty » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:48 pm

:mags
count rivka in on our side, Erin... she's just been offline cuz she has started a new semester in a program she doesn't want to be in... and it is taking it's toll on her already... plus she just had her house torn up because the kitchen plumbing needed replacement... it was leaking all over everything! and someone ran into her and totalled her car...luckily she was only shaken up! so she would be right here saying the same thing in spades if she had time to do so! LOL... she and I keep in touch by phone... we both have unlimited long distance calling...LOL... so sometimes we are on for hours discussing the magster and the state of affairs...no pun intended... of comics today. she is a veteran Marvel watcher, since her be all and end all is Mags! LOL...but she manages to keep abreast of interior things going on at Marvel! and right now the ascendency is Claremont. How long his star can rise and how far they will let him go depends primarillly on sales and positive feedback... but I think they are finally wary of the internet drones... so they will look at bottom linne... and all of Chris's books are doing well in a horrible market!
As long as they pay no attention to the mindslaves who can only parrot "But it's NOT Morrison!" and "don't TOUCH anything of our god's run!!! or we'lll...we'lll..." fill in the blanks...they will be OK. Just ignore the mindslaves who can only talk about Morrison and how his wonderful stuff is being ruined! and monkeyed with! As if he didn't do the exact same thing to others! tit for tat, kiddies.
chris actually isn't changing that much... at least not so far...but the one bug up their asses sems to be Magneto! It has always been Magneto! It will probablly ALWAYS be Magneto! They just cannot let him be rational, likable and Jewish all at the same time! And for many of them... Morrison really doesn't have a thing to do with it EXCEPT that he portrayed Mags as they want to see him... a stinking rat bastard! they laud canon until it comes to him! Then they conveniently forget sixteen or seventeen years of character building with him... and go back to issue one! and then they scream when someone says..."HEY! what about all this canon!?!"

I have never seen anything like it! I would like to think it is an anomaly...but byrne's followers did the same thing twenty years ago... only they didn't have the internet to bully and coerce with.

the times, they are a changin...
Paty
:mags
... and not for the better, I am afraid! We can but hope that Claremont will hold the line!
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Post by Diablo » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:03 pm

We can only HOPE Magnus will remain in the side of the angels. I think, as long as Claremont writes him, we're safe.
I'm perhap's pessimistic, but there will always be someone to remind us he was a terrorist in issue#1.
That's okay for me, IF you remember there is a difference between a villain and a slayer. The most important thing for Magnus is not to become the murderer he's portrayed as in the Ultimate Universe.
You can't really like Mark Millar's Ultimate Magneto.
He's kinda stupid. :(
Just like Millar's Ultimate Nightcrawler is non-existant. :( again.

For now, let's enjoy Chris Claremont's complex Magneto, Xavier's soul-brother. :)
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Post by Paty » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:17 am

:mags
Right... so what the hell is he doing showing u in Avengers this week to cart off Wanda? If he's lying low on Genosha...what is he doing showing up inAvengers...IN FREAKIN' COSTUME!
Or so I am told... I haven't seen it yet... but I hear it is Bendis setting up his next year's mini series The Family of M...or somesuch. And tohell with what Claremont is doing. There is either nocontrol at marvel...or there is acive sabotage aimed at Claremont and magneto in particular.
It 's the little anti-magneto band of Harass followers... Millar being paramount in the vangard. But the like thinkers include Byrne...who, thankfully, may have burned his bridges as badly as Morrison did...Morrison, who thankfully is gone... Bendis, Macchio, Brevort and a hidden number of "plants" hired by Harass when he was there to salt the company with anti'Magneto employees. This underground movement is stillin place and moving to get the ratbastard back...nomatter what! You can see it coming.
Yeah... enjoy the complex Mags as long as you can... they'll wipe him out if the possiblly can. It's already in the planning, kiddies.
You mark my words. No...I'm not paranoid...just tired of the bullshit. they are soooo stupidly obvious. and they think they are so smart and secretive.
PTUI!
Now the Avengers fans know what theX fans felt a year ago. Sick to their stomachs.

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:mags
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Post by Panz » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:44 am

I just don't see why they are (or seem) so dueced bent on reverting him to a mustachio twirling EEEEEVIIIILLLL cliche?????? I mean, hasn't that been done to death? maybe it flew like an eagle "back in the day" but is that REALLY what America wants? It's just so flat footed and *yawn* predictable, when there is so much meat on the bones of Mags character to sink ones' writing hooks into.
Ok, so they are trying for utter facile simplicity, no nookie, no naughty words, no REAL violence, ultra short arcs to keep the ever shortening attention span of the average reader, so why can't they have a cool "villain" for once and not yet another meglomaniacal clone with a chip on his shoulder????

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE Marvel, some of us actually DID manage to graduate from middle school, we can think and read. We would like to hand you money for a good product....Claremont can give us that if someone would just quit with the character musical chairs and give us a stable team to get into the swing with.

Or better yet, break the universe up into many realities and let each artist and writer tell HIS own version of the Marvel Universe? no complications, everybody gets to read the version they like best and I can stop ripping my hair out while there are still a few tufts left.


Please?
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Post by Diablo » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:50 pm

Okay, now I'm afraid ! :(
I'll get the next issue of Avengers Saturday... but I think I'll come here first to know -something I seldom do : I prefer discovering the story INSIDE the comic-books.

But it's Wanda and Magnus, two of my favourite characters.
So...

Remember when they turned Iron-Man into a traitor in the 90s ?? It's the same idea here. It didn't make any sense then, it doesn't now.
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Post by Paty » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:05 pm

:mags
sorry... I suppose I should have put that in the spoiler thingie...but I am sooo mad I can't even think straight!
What it is...is that they seem bound and determined to make Marvel theirs... no matter what. they have to get rid of characters they don't like but instead of having them go off and do something else so they can be used by someone with a mind to tell other stories, NO... they have to kill them. Shock value! the death toll is rising! they really don't want the old characters around... they want their new characters or to haul out unused characters from the dust bin to use... so their insipid stories will SEEM new!
and they are gonna ram the new Avengers down our throats by using two of the most popular characters... Wolverine and Spidey... to do it. I mean...c'mon... Wolvie is already in too many places at once! What is he? the Multiple Man? He would have to be to be in so many places simultaneously! And we are supposed to BUY this???!!!??? Give me a big Freakin' break!!!
There will be a bunch of diehard Wolvie and Spidey followers who will pick up the New Avengers cuz their faves are in it... and this is what they are counting on to bolster the book.. cuz they KNOW a lot of REAL Avengers readers are gonna leave. I hope it falls flat on it's improbable face. I hope they do too... from a storey higher than the tenth floor.

the new Avengers lineup sucks moose...sideways... with a straw! The characters that have been killed...Hawkeye and the Vision ...how do you kill an android? Answer...you can't ...Byrne took him apart and the fans howled to high heaven so they had to eventually restore him.. but the juveniles didn't know how to write him either.. cuz the Vision was another complex character ... just like Mags!
they cannot write anything more complex than two dimensional characters, apparently... so they get rid of and kill off the ones they are incapable of writing so someone else with a modicum of talent can't use them. And they are still being allowed to do it. It's gotta be Quesada. I still wonder how much who is pay ing him to destroy Marvel... cuz he couldn't be doing this much damage for free...could he? I mean...he's not THAT stupid, is he? If you are gonna sabotage the company who is paying your bills... you better be making big bucks under the table!

Why doesn't perlmutter wake up and smell the coffee? Avi Arad wants the characters of the eighties... who were treated and written as heroes... to make movies with. This wholesale destruction of that universe is not gonna give him anything to work with...either movie or merchandise-wise. He's out on the west coast and not minding the store here on the east.. and the children are "home alone". OOg... what a comparison...but an apt one I think... only there won't be a happy ending here.
This is a tragedy unfolding at Marvel. It doesn't read out in the books... it reads out in real life... and there seems to be nothing we can do to stop it...except write to Perlmutter or Arad and protest to the heavens. Maybe they will wake up while they still have a company...maybe not.

As to ditching the shared universe... nope. That is part and parcel of the company's identity with the stocks and trades commission. it is what they use to lure merchandisers... this HUGE conglomeration of fans who follow the interlocked storylines across a battery of venues. A spidey toy can have elements in it that will make a wolvie fan pick up the spidey toy, too. and vice versa. X toys can cross over into Avengers and DD can have adventures with Iron man and Thor...The shared Universe is such a huge tool for the luring of merchandisers that it couldn't be disposed of if they wanted to... it is part of Marvel's identity.
But the improbable things they do with it are ridiculous. wolvie, the most overused character in comics, is in more places at the same time than a battery of clones! Weapon X... Weapon Xa.. Weapon Xb...Weapon X c... etcetera... ad infinitum... ad nauseum...

What's next? Spidey A Spidey B? Spidey C?...Oh, wait... spidey... Venom... Carnage... OOOoooOOO Dark Spidey...
Gimme a break!
Paty
:mags
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Post by Diablo » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:32 pm

For Wolverine, it's exactly what I said in another thread. Yep, he's become the Multiple Wolverine-man. LOL ! :D
Next time he'll be in the FF and in the New New New Defenders.
The problem is : it makes the character totally uninteresting cause he can't change anymore !

You know, I already couldn't really care for Spidey because he was in four or five series in the nineties. Among all those wall-crawlers, who was the real one ?? It's the same thing -and it's even worse !- for Wolvie now.

Oh, and don't count The Vision dead, Paty. He WILL come back. :) As for Wanda, I don't know. I'm just afraid. :X

But honestly, Hawkeye's death doesn't bother me. Never been a big fan of him. I always prefered DC's Green Arrow.
And I like it when important characters bite the dust. The problem is : you HAVE TO replace them with new, complex and interesting ones.
It's SO easy to kill, but SO difficult to create.
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Post by Northstars Love » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:02 pm

Originally posted by Diablo
For Wolverine, it's exactly what I said in another thread. Yep, he's become the Multiple Wolverine-man. LOL ! :D
Next time he'll be in the FF and in the New New New Defenders.
The problem is : it makes the character totally uninteresting cause he can't change anymore !

I am under the same belief. His second mutation has to be multiplying himself. :rolleyes He's being thrown out there just to sell books. Wolverine in the New Avengers? Ya right! Done just to sell the book and to bring over people that may not have read the "old Avengers". But Hey! Wolverine's in the New Avengers! Let's buy it!!!! Come on! :shakeno How is he supposed to be in every X book in creation and then appear also in non-X titles? Easy. He is Multiple Wolverine! Sorry, one is enough.
Oh, and don't count The Vision dead, Paty. He WILL come back. :) As for Wanda, I don't know. I'm just afraid. :X

But honestly, Hawkeye's death doesn't bother me. Never been a big fan of him. I always prefered DC's Green Arrow.
And I like it when important characters bite the dust. The problem is : you HAVE TO replace them with new, complex and interesting ones.
It's SO easy to kill, but SO difficult to create.

I liked Hawkeye. I was sad to see him wiped out. :( But as for turning Wanda evil this is not good. I want to see her stay good. Perhaps join the X-Men or even her father on Genosha? Keep Mags on the side of good Marvel. Although he was a great villian and adversary to the X-men I think its his time to evolve to a more peaceful character. One that creates instead of destroys.

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Post by Paty » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:30 pm

:mags
Ha! our dread lord being nice and reasonable? the little neonazis left over from Der fuher, Harass, won't let that happen! they are still there working under the tablecloth to upset the apple bowl.
Look at what Morrison did! they were howling with glee! Until avi Arad threw a shitfit and came down hard on the little buggers. so they slithered back into the dark bowels of Marvel to work their cancerous wiles again...and again... and again. As soon as Avi went west again, it's back to business... and business is to make sure that since Mags is irrevokably Jewish...that he is the biggest monster in the history of the world! that's the only way they can see him... and Perlmutter and Arad being Jewish doesn't mean jack shit if they aren't keeping an eye on those children. they have sabotage down to an art.

the vision is the easiest of the newly dead to bring back. He wasn't really "alive" to begin with. He was an android. sorta like Data.. from star trek NG. He was sentient, he had feelings... and a human template from which his personality was evolved. but not life. He couldn't father a child... which was why Wanda's pregnancy by him was soooo bogus. If he did manage through electromagnetic stimulation to cause her to concieve parthenogenicly, the child would have been a direct copy of her..having only her genetic makeup. But that possibility was never explored...the dolts! His character was complex and interesting because he had the feelings of a human and no way to really express
them.. logically. .He worshipped life...partly because he had none... or at best, a half life that had everything to do with programming but nothing to do with reality in physical form. A man, trapped in the body of a machine. A functional man...with all the needs,desires and wants of any man... but no right, in his own electronic mind, to pursue those drives. He was a very tragic character. I loved the way Roy Thomas wrote him... because Roy understood the pathos of the character. No other writer has understood the overwhelming complexity and pathos of the character so well. But, frankly, I would rather see him dead than in the hands that now script the avengers. and the upcoming project with , in al probability, Magneto, will also be in those heinous hands.
If they put him back to mindless megalomania, I am gone. and a whole bunch of people I know who value the complex Magneto are gone as well. We are tired of being jerked around by thise morons....these lpuerile little jerkoffs who think that having secrets makes them big shit on totem pole!
Hey, Marvel dipshits...without us fans, you are nothing! We knew that back in the seventies and eighties...without the fans, the creators are nothing. These yoyos don't seem to realize it...they mouth it but they are not listening to what they are saying. They claim to not be influenced by the babbling mindslaves who have taken over the chat boards ...which have been denuded of fans wanting to talk about characters. they listen only to these patheticly jabbering fans who only wanting to talk about their fave artist or writer. It's about the CHARACTERS! DAMMIT! nOT mORRISON OR bENDIS OR yOUBANGI mYASSI...
OR WHOEVER... it's about the CHARACTERS!

sigh...yeah... wolvie is used to sell...that's it. No concern for the character. If he's in the book sales go up...cuz all the little fans who only buy Wolverine stories have to have their complete collection. It's sickening... and no one to keep it straight. quesada doesn't care as long as sales go up. He's supposed to be safeguarding the characters to keep their characterizations stable. YEAH...RIGHT!

sorry... I am soo pissed and this time it isn't all about Mags! Oh,yeah... they'll screw him over...he's target number ONE... but the devolvement of the whole Marvel Universe is the company headed toward Ultimateville...and didn't I say they were gonna try that sooner or later? Boy! let me tell ya! If I owned the company, the Ultimate line would be the second thing to go...right after every single person Hardass hired! Except claremont, whom he fired first and who has come back and toed the mark to get and save as much as he could of the empire he built. The empire the movies are based on...the eighties X universe!

I am totally appalled at the stupidity of upper management in this whole debacle. But in the end, they are the ones who wil lsuffer...and their pocketbooks will suffer the most when the final legion of die hard fans gets disgusted and leaves. they cannot replace those die hard fans...they were left overs from a pre computer readership. their ilk doesn't exist any more...especially if they are so disaffected that they don't sit down with their kids or grandkids and have fun reading grand adventures in the comics.
The real fun of the older comics is that they had to tell a story on one level... but be exciting on another level. there was always one obligatory fight scene... if nothing else, a Danger Room fight scene... and then the writer could tell his story. If there was another fight scene occasionally in the same book,the kids would really get stirred up... but it wasn't necessary if the one fight scene was there. Just one! No twenty two pages of mindless fight ... blood flying... heads rolling... on camera for the world to gag on... the story was more important and the readers knew that. Now it's all T and A pinups and wall to wall mayhem. No wonder there's no appreciable story... and kids who have grown up on computer games don't want one beyond a basic level. You move forward in the game... personality development doesn't count...story doesn't count... move forward... clean cup...move down... clean cup... It's a Mad Hatter teaparty!
And we're stuck. We want stories... good characters and characterizations... but the writers are either incapable of doing that...or too lazy to do it. it is, after all, easier to write crap than it is to actually write good stories that don't depend on sex and violence. And easy is good for these little boyos...you betcha!

sorry for the rant... as you can see, I am once again fearful... for the company I loved... for the company I left one family to work at... for the Camelot that was and very obviously is no more... and for Mags in particular. Their perrennial target and scapegoat. I wish I could think better of Marvel's chances in this avalanche of crap... but i cannot.
And that's horrible.
paty
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Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
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Post by Diablo » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:27 pm

I won't be that pessimistic, Paty !

Finally, Marvel Comics released a Nightcrawler ongoing series, something I've dreamed of for more than ten years !!
On the plus side, there is also Claremont's Uncanny and Excalibur, Peter David's Madrox -and his return to The Hulk -YES !! :) , and also She-Hulk : clever, hilarious writing with a good knowledge of the Marvel Universe. Okay, it seems Madrox and Shulkie's series won't last... but still.
Darkness isn't everywhere yet.
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Post by Paty » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:38 pm

:mags
Oh, the art on the Avengers was lovely... very well done... but once again it's all the fault of the female. she has to be stopped by the stalwart male and carried off by another male... in this case, Mags... in his new Excalibur/movie costume.
Now, if Mags is trying to lay low, and stay hidden and "dead to the world" this is NOT the way to do it. And I don't think Cap would have given Wanda over to him without a "by yr leave' cuz as far as he knew, Magneto was the monster that caused so much mayhem in NYC and was supposed to be dead. Nope... he handed her right over... not a question. blammo... hand the comatose girl over to the villain! WHERE ARE THESE CHILDREN'S MINDS??!!!
I have said it before and will say it again... there is no one home in editorial at Marvel! NO ONE!!! Conflicts like this one should not happen. this is apparently the Magneto of chris's Genosha...he is beautiful and reasonable... but at this moment, he is supposedly held captive by "pirates" of space and time... or some such. He can't just go skipping around blowing his cover like this and expect the world not to come knocking on Genosha's door... and I thought that was what they were trying to avoid! OK... so yeah... Xorn tells the X people that the Mags of Planet X was not the real one...and THEY know... but how dothe Avengers become privvy to this info? Hear it on CNN? gimme a break!
This smacks of either editorial incompetance...which we all know is extant in gread amounts on the X titles, at least... or direct sabotage of Claremont's storylines... and that bodes not well at all.
the House of M project has been already announced for next year... so we know Bendis wants to glom off Mags and do dastardly things with him. He had previously not advertised that he had any interest in Magneto... but that was when Morrison was crapping him up... so now Chris has rescued him and the Hardass gang wants to grab him again to mess with him. Why can't they leave Claremont and the characters he wants alone???!!! we can't even relax for a year! The little neonazis are on the march again! sieg heil! down with Magneto!
I don't know what is gonna happen to the Avengers book. I hope the readership drops it like a hot potato. Even with the big name daraws of Spidey and Wolverine... which is a blatant addition to counteract the sales slump that will surely happen as die hard readers leave en masse. I know I will probably never pick up another Avengers comic...and i was once one of the most fervent followers of that book... at least until Byrne destroyed the vision.. and it took years to get him back to where he was interesting again... and now this. No... I am done with Avengers.
If they screw Mags over again, I will be done with X men, too... Maybe I shall keep getting the Nightcrawler book... it is pretty good... but I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop on what Claremont is trying to do with Mags. I don't think they will give him the time he wants to do the stuff he wants... he is building a careful storyline and he doesn't have time to DO that... he needs to go in and cement what he wants with that character well and soon! cuz you know they are gonna undo anything he tries to do...

Y'know... it's funny... if Claremont had not had an eighteen year run with all it's offshoots, Marvel wouldn't have an X empire. Chris built it almost singlehandedly. Dave andLen created the magic football, handed it off to Chris and he ran with it. Marvel owes it's X empire in all it's richness to Claremont... and these johnnie come latelys won't let him rebuild the foundations that hardass and company did their best to tear down. Good writers build on the foundations laid down by former wruters ... they don't destroy and tear down something so wonderfully constructed ! Especially for their own self gratification... except at marvel. It seems envy and jealousy rule there any more.
either that or Marvel is bound and determined to yank the whole shebang outta forty years of development into the very shallow present...and even shallower future. And that would be catastrophic for them. It is the old time readers who are sustaining the books and merchandise.
they better wake up soon before the oldies are all gone in disgust.... and they find out the younger audience is more interested in movies and interactive vids... and there is no more market for comic BOOKS! could it be that this is what they WANT???!!!

paty
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Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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Post by Diablo » Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:19 pm

Regarding Avengers :
Not the best issue there ever was, but not the disaster I was afraid of.

So okaaaay, Wanda has turned evil. I can buy that, not because, as Bendis tried really hard to explain, she couldn't control her powers -Huh ??- but because she lost her children and became aware of that, aware of all what the Avengers kept hidden.
I remember reading the Byrne issues more than ten years ago, with the Master Pandemonium storyline -even if I didn't know, then, that Byrne was destroying everything that had been done before.
Anyway, I can understand Wanda's anger, her frustration, her pain.

And finally, Magneto's appearence was rather touching. He wasn't portayed as the mindless brute that appeared during Morrison's run.
But it's true the Avengers couldn't leave him go with all what they think he has done.

I was frustrated, nonetheless, because, all of a sudden, and without an Avengers-blink, all is said and done, all is over.
And where the hell was Quicksilver ??? He would have been the first Avenger to come !!


What will become of Wanda now ? Will Bendis's Magneto be complex and well written ?
I'm still afraid and skeptical, but I'll wait. And I hope that Chris Claremont will have some freedom, that Magnus will stay in the Excalibur series...
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Post by Paty » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:52 am

:mags
It looks like there may have been a time glitch here. If chris, in the next couple issues leads into Mags going and getting her and then she appears in Excalibur, then there has been a screwup in co ordinating the timelines in the books... and that is sloppy, incompetant editing... which we know is rampant and pervasive at Marvel... since they don't got editors, they only got glorified gofers!
the motivation on the Avengers storyline was done well... and the story flowed nicely...I was unhappy about all it being Wanda's fault... in a psychotic daze or not...once again it was women not being able to "handle" things...powers, emotions...etc....and that is just crap! I also got the feeling that they might try to pin everything that happened in NYC on her... now, am I being paranoid? Magneto says "Xavier was right... it was you"
what's that supposed to mean? It was Wanda who did the mess in NYC???we don't know cuz chris hasn't gotten to that part of his storyline yet... or bendis is jumping the gun here and setting up the "House of M" thingie for nest year without benefit of consulting and coordinating with Chris... who has supposed control of the character!! what's going on here? Editorial incompetance or character sabotage...AGAIN!!!!

I don't mind telling ya... I am SICK of it! either thay aren't paying attention or they are actively infighting there... and it is showing up inthe books with broken and incomprehensible storylines. In any event... it is simply NOT PROFESSIONAL!

It would have gotten them kicked out on their tushies once upon a time when characters, continuity and working together to put out the best PRODUCT we could put out was paramount. I guess ego, self centeredness and hubris have replaced professionality at Marvel.
that pisses me off!
Sorry to be such a grouch... but it gets worse across the board. And here i thought it was only the X empire that was sooooo screwed up!
Silly me...

Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
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Post by Diablo » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:05 am

Well Paty, the fact that Chris's story is "late", considering the continuity, wouldn't bother me IF Marvel was treating him and "King Bendis" equally. It would ad mystery.
But it seems Bendis can do all what he wants and not Chris...

Still, I'm not angry yet. Magneto may not be portrayed as a villain in the "House of M" thing.

And not only women are portrayed as not being able to cope with their anger, their feelings. Look at Logan or, more recently, at Juggernaut during Austen's run.
Okay, I admit they didn't kill several members of their team...
On the other hand, Chris's Ororo is the strongest-willed one there is. Hey, she's the leader and even give orders to Logan -well, one of the Logans of course. The one who isn't with the Avengers or with Havok's team or with Cyke's team or in his bed sleeping while other, less lazy Logans are doing his job. ;)
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Post by Nightcrawler ZERO » Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:13 pm

The January Solicits for Excalibur mention "Magneto returning to Genosha with someone..... an Avengers Dissasembled Tie-in"

Joe Quesada has mentioned that one of Marvel's goals for 2005 is to bring back the shared Universe. We're probably seeing the begining of taht now, but with so many stories already in progress, it amy take some time for everything to synch up.

As for House of M, reading Bendis' comments in Wizard, Magneto isn't the one to worry about. Bendis seems to be a big fan of teh Claremont Magneto, and his plot focuses on deciding whether to continue his War for mutant superiority and lose his children again, or tostep down from his cause in order to salvage his family. It sounds to me like he will end up either like the Magneto who led the X-men, or movie Magneto. No return to the crazy Magneto of the nineties. It's Pietro and Wanda who seem prepped for major changes......

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