GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby Diablo » Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:23 am

Nightcrawler ZERO, you made my day. :-)
Happiest news here.
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby Paty » Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:40 am

:mags
I can only hope that Bendis does the right thing here... but seeing how badly the Avengers storyline was botched, I cannot be sanguine about this.
From the lack of coordination with Claremont's Excalibur storyline to the major canon glitches which reveal little or no research into canon re: Wanda's powers or how the marvel Universe works...Hey, Strange... you weild Chaos magick and have for close to half a century...whatta ya mean there is no such thing as chaos magick? the whole thing is a mess! Geezmareez!I MEAN ... FREAKIN' BASIC BLUNDERS!!!
and they are gonna entrust the most complex, convoluted conflicted character in Marvel's stable to this basic incompetant!?! the mind boggles!!! someone who doesn't do his research!?! Obviously! someone who cannot be bothered to coordinate with the writer he professes to admire!?! Gimme a break!

I do not hold any hope for anything marginally readable if Avengers Disassemble is any indication of Bendis' capabilities. sorry...

I expect a modicum of professionality here... and I have yet to see it. while this storyline...which, by the way, even Marvel admits now was a big mistake... may have been passed on by editorial, Bendis is responsible for at least trying to make it readable. that is what writers are supposed to do.
Major amounts of die hard Avengers fans are terminally ticked off and howling... and most of these are educated and erudite older folk...not pureile fanboys.
It is a monumental mess...in some waays as bad as Planet X... in some ways not.. but it makes a shambles of another of the major financial legs of Marvel. You cut too many legs out from under Marvel and it is gonna come toppling down like a broken chair. Marvel cannot survive the wholesale departure of the old time fans. It simmply cannot... and a shitload of old time fans are so mad they are gonna leave if something isn't fixed fast! X fans ore one kind of craxy...but Avengers fans are a different breed... and this storyline struck at their very heart...killing characters they loved and followed ... sometimes for onger than Bendis and his ilk have been alive!
Bendis may be the nicest guy in the world... but the fact that he goes out of his way to look like Morrison gives me pause. I mean...who wants to look like a supercilious snotty weasel? Really! And he is mentored by Brevort who may be the one responsible for this crap... but Bendis wrote it and will catch the lumps!
And once again, a major piece of Marvel history and characterization is shot to shit.
Marvel stumbles on...zombie like...reeling...how much more punishment can it take, folks? Stay tuned...I hear spidey has now turned arachnid...and Gwen fucken Norman Osborn...riiiiiiiiiight...chop, chop...TIMBUUUUUURRR!!!!

Paty
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby Diablo » Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:36 pm

Yeah, Osborn and Gwen Stacy... it's kinda disturbing.
The loss of innocence, really. Gwen Stacy was an iconic character who's lost now : the perfect comic-book girlfriend from another time.
I'm not shocked and I like the idea of a Gwen Jr but... it's just weird.
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Postby Paty » Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:28 am

:mags
right... and this was supposed to have happened WHEN??? nO.... I am sorry... it seems all the females at Marvel have to either be sluts or brain dead... and they cannot even leave the dead alone.

The boy children at Marvel need a swift kick where it will do the most good... in the brai- sack hanging between their thighs!

Paty
:mags
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby Diablo » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:22 pm

Nothing to do with the Excalibur series, but everything to do with Mags.
Have you seen what Randy Bowen has in store for Magnusz Paty ??
Yep, it's a statue !! :bamfv :mags
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Postby Diablo » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:24 pm

And again...
I'm really waiting for the final version to join my Doc Doom in the living-room ! :):)
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Postby Paty » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:24 pm

:mags
Oh, my stars and garders!!!
that is lovely! any details on size or when it will be released???

there is, in this month's Marvel Previews, a bust of Magneto that is unusual... It shows him from the waist up, reaching out limilar to this one, but inhis other hand he is holding the helmet...making his head bare...with a stern but nice facial expression and his hair , though cut close, still framing his face and showing. It is a lovely piece and I have already ordered two of them... Now this! I wonder if it's solicitation wil coincide with the House of M series. the bust i just ordered is due to be released next april, I believe.

so... where did you get this little tidbit, dear? LOL... and was there any other info? I got the much more dynamic cold cast figure many years ago... but this has a nice regalness to it... if not a lot of action.

Obviously one for the collection...
So, thanks for the "heads up!"
LOL
Paty
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Postby Diablo » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:47 am

http://www.bowendesigns.com

We still don't know when it'll be for sale. But I just can't wait ! :bamf
You can tell Dave that Randy Bowen said he'll do a Nightcrawler statue too ! -no pictures available yet...
Yeah, I'll have no money left...

The mini-bust you're talking about is interesting, indeed.
I've seen it in Previews. It seems you can remove the helmet !!! :)
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Postby Paty » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:04 am

:mags
Heh... and here i thought they HAD done one with the helmet removed! LOL...well, it doesn't show it with the helmet on...so go figure. But I am told that one ships in april. I've already got two ordered! LOL
Well, this Bowen one isn't as dramatic as the cold cast they did of him flying several years back, but it is beautiful, nonetheless and i willdefinately want it when it comes out!

thanks , darlin... I shall tell Dave about the Nighty statue...he will be excited I am sure! when you get pix by all means let us know.

And according to Rivka, there's stuff goin on...apparently Bendis had a "stickey" thread devoted to House of M on his website...in whichhe was discussing Magneto and the House of M... and suddenly it is gone. so did Jill's little blab of info over on another thread about whocaused Planet X influence Marvel into rethinking it's storylines? frankly I could stand Cassandra Nova being responsible for it all...it was one of my pet therories and would explain why Mags was so ineffectual... CN wouldn't reqally know that much about Magneto and his powers. If he was a foe of Xaviers, she might even have thought of him as an ally... but Xavier's concern for Mags and his former connection with him would have caused CN to possibly use his image to screw with Xavier's mind.

In any event, looks like something's happening...and the big yearly meeting should be sometime around now so all the little boyos can plot out their upcoming craziness...which they won't adhere to anyway, if the fans guess what is going on. sigh... it is soooo juvenile.

I really wish Marvelhad someone with a brain and a backbone running it.

Paty
:mags
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Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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Postby Diablo » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:08 pm

Paty wrote :
I shall tell Dave about the Nighty statue...he will be excited I am sure! when you get pix by all means let us know.


I SO want pictures of that statue ! I promise to let you know, as soon as I find them.
But it can take time. The prototype exists, but no one -except some of Bowen staff- has seen it yet.
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Postby Paty » Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:30 pm

:mags
Oooooooo... cool beans! Maybe Dave can contact Randy himself...heheheheeee... sometimes it helps to be a "big name" LOL... like the creator!
If the prototype exists, don't you think they would let the "CREATOR" OF THE CHARACTER SEE IT?

But then again... this is Marvel we are talking about...probably not... they like to keep their little secrets... it makes them feel important...

sigh
Paty
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Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
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Postby Diablo » Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:22 pm

Dave can always try !!
And he's welcome to share it with us if he's got a picture !! :D
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Postby Paty » Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:02 pm

:mags
Yeah, right... dream on, dearie! LOL

Hey! it's good to see the forum backonlline! did they change servers or just fix glitches? Jillsaid they were considering changing servers since this one has had so many problems.

Anbody know?

Paty
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Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
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Postby Diablo » Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:14 pm

First pics of painted Magneto by Bowen, Paty.
But I think they're gonna change it : darker colours and white eyes instead...
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Postby Diablo » Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:14 pm

...And a second one ! :)
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Postby Paty » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:38 pm

:mags
Hmmmm... I could see darker purple. the Red is fine. You wouldn't want to go darker on that...but the purple verges on lavender when it should be a rich almost royal purple. when I color my art of Mags, I usually do a very dark, deep magenta on the inside, to give it a little life sometimes with light magenta if there is a lightsource from below.
but then, andy Yanchus always said my coloring was gaudy. well, yeah... I did the display coloring for the merchandising and we wanted it eye catching. But superhero comics get their pizazz from brilliant color! It enhances what is happening on the page and gives it life. I noticed when computer coloring came in, a lot of coloring got"gaudy" especially at first... Spawn was the best! wow! that early spawn stuff knocked your eye out...it was lovely. there is a whole science to using strong color to create mood and lead your eyes where they should go... and computer color can be deliciously strong and good in this respect.
But, of course, the pastel people got in and four color went the way of the dodo for a lotta years. UGH! If you have a full range of color, you should use it. You don't have to use all strong color, but you should use SOME of it. and issue after issue of monochromatic color schemes was driving me up a wall!
I am not fond of pastel colors! I hate pastel comics. there are a couple of X titles that are so pastel it makes me puke! they look like kindergarden coloring books. and while I have no problem with kids coloring comic -based coloring books, the real deal shouldn't look like crayola! You have rich wonderful inks out there with such a wide range of color! the trick is to use pastels where they can heighten, enhance and contrast with the action that richer colors create. Of course, some of the blame goes to a lack of blacks in some art styles. When you have a dearth of blacks, it looks like saturday morning cartoons of the very early variety...and in that case, you have to become a painter and use rich color to give depth and weight to the page...since the requisite blacks aren't there to do it. Coloring isn't just slapping this or that shade into an available space... there is a science to it that I don't think a lot of these kids understand. do they teach COLORING at Joe Kubert's school...or only how to draw pinups? Cuz good sequential storytelling seems sometimes to have gone by the board too. Or maybe I am just OLD... does anyone else out there have trouble sometimes with which blurb or word balloon to read next? Ok...some of the pages look wonderful... bu you have a devil of a time figuring which thing to read first... and I always get it wrong... left to right, up to down sometimes just doesn't work!
when we were printing on newsprint, we were limited in our colors because of the saturation point of the paper. You were printing four colors on both sides of newsprint quality paper and that stuff acted just like a sponge... so you had only , I believe, sixty four interior combinations of solid and screened color to choose from. with the advehnt of Baxter quality paper or better, you had a limitless range with fine, airbrushied screens , fades, special color effects, color holds ...You name it! and there are a lot of color techs out there that don't know how to color for the comics! they have great technical skills... they can make photoshop or painter or whatever dingbat program they use... sing! they just don't understand comic coloring and how to most effectively use it. They need a tutorial by Marie Severin!!! The Dean of colorists! she's got a wonderful eye for color! Or ME!!! I would give those pastel people what for and tell them to go back to coloring BARBIE... and not action hero comics!
sHEESH! And I ought to know... cuz I colored Barbie for a while when Marvel was doing it...PTUI!
Yeah.. royal purple on the cape. Make it really rich. I don't know about the all white eyes. this figure is so static in it's pose that that kind of effect might be a little much... although it would be easier than having to paint all those lovely blue eyes! LOL... But that's just laziness...or cost concerns...
Give him his lovely blue eyes, boys...

LOL
Paty
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Postby Diablo » Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:25 pm

Sorry for the Barbie work, Paty, LOL ! :LOL:LOL

I'd really like the eyes to be white, and without pupils like Ororo, Wolvie in costume, Colossus, Dark Phoenix and Nightcrawler (OK, yellow for him but still.)
He would be more frightening ! And I love the frightening Mags.

Anyway, I'll try to have this statue for sure !!:evil
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Postby DoomInABox » Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:38 am

Kay ... I don't know if this has been posted anywhere else yet, but this seemed like the best place for it ...

Paty, you juuuuust might be interested in this little preview page for the new AoA series ....
http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/AoA/XMAOA001019_color.jpg

Not terribly crazy about the art myself, but the whole thing's gearing up to look pretty good ... here's the entire article if anyone's interested. I found the link over at BAMF Central.
http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26059
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Postby Paty » Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:56 am

:mags
hmmm... interesting. I was never a fan of aoA in spite of the fact that it portrayed Mags and rogue as a couple and made him the hero. I didn't really see the point to the alternate universe... and some of the characers, like sugarman and dark beast really disgusted me no end. so I didn't bother to even read it when it originally came out. I have the reprinted series and still haven't been able to get into them... even though i have tried.
I think a major flaw was that rogue couldn't even touch her bby... which was ludicrous, since she carried it nine months in her body and if any thing or one should have been immune to her powers, it should have been the kid. That kind of stupidity should have been ironed out by editorial... and it just punched up for me the direction downhill that the editorial staff quality had taken. I had no patience with it. I wanted the real universe back, even if they were trying to villify Mags in it. It felt like a sop to the thousands of clamoring Mags fans to shut them up. at least AoA felt that way to me. I love Mags in long hair, but he needs his "bite" his "fire"...maybe some of his badguy image... the freedom fighter who just won't lay down and die. He's not the Utopic good guy. He's the King... the leader who has to do hard things and make hard decisions because he knows the reality og what will happen if you are not ever vigilant and ready to defend yourself...and strike back if necessary.
when AoA came out firt, it just felt to me like "Oh... you won't let him be heroic or even approach that in the real universe... so we're supposed to lap up this alternate universe??? We're supposed tobe thankful for this "bone" you are tossing us, while you trash the original? Gimme a break!"
AoA to me was never real. Never! Much as I liked the Magneto within, we didn't see that much of him... all we saw were these ugly and nasty other characters... ad finitum , ad nauseum...so I didn't like it at all and didn't read it I am not sure if I even wasted my money on it. In later years, I figured that since everybody quoted it and refered to it in discussions, that I should at least give it a read... so I picked up the reprint editions... and haven't been able to even get interested...AGAIN... even though they are sitting right here on my headboard. when I do inane crossword puzzles rather than read an X Men storyline... you gotta know the aversion factor is stillhigh.
I think it was Sugarman and that whole scenerio... he disgusted me so much I couldn't efen read the series! PTUI! Now they seem to be doing it all over again. don't they know to leave bad enough ... or well enough, depending on your viewpoint... alone? what? these children don't have any ORIGINAL ideas??? Geez...

But thanx for posting the links. I am not sanguine about the art, either... except that it seems to have decent color... but I am not a fan of anime like art on an X title... toocartoony...I want my X fold drawn more realistically. Not that this is too bad...it just doesn't DO it for me stylistically... that's all. I am sure people who like the anime style will be happy. I am not horribly unhappy as I am with some styles...but I am not wildly enthusiastic about it either. when you slip into a cartoony style, you lose the sense of reality. the closer to representational art you get, the more "real" it is. Cartoony doesn't make it... at least in my book.
but that's just me... I am finiky...about art especially. I haven't even read the very earliest X Men issues cuz I cannot stand Kirby art...it is soooo ugly! I lif reading comics from the late fifties to the early seventies cuz all I saw on the stands was this awful ... to me...Kirby art. and I couldn't get past the awful art to read the stories. Besides which, costumes in the fifties and early sixties were awful... dull... stupidly designed even for that era. PTUI! I remember that I thought at the time that if I were a superdoop, I sure wouldn't wear something like that...it was ludicrous! The first costumes I remember seeing and liking in over a decade, were John Buscema's Avengers...then Dave's revamp of the Legion of superheroes! finally! Decent art!!! And I started reading comics again.

My problem is that I want good, representational art with no cartoony aspects for my superheroes. I take them that seriously. Nocartoony styles need apply for me..at least for the X folk and the Avengers. toher series can get cartoony, but not these folk... not in my book. cuz these are more adult oriented books. That is not to say that adults cannot enjoy amimeesque art... but it has it's place... and it's place is not in X Men. Just like plastic dinnerware is not used on a formal banquet table. It just ISN'T!!!

Stylistic differences, I guess...
Paty
:mags
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Postby DoomInABox » Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:47 pm

I really love reading your posts, Paty ... it's like opening a dam of information, opinion and all that stuff "not said in polite company." Blah. it's about time someone realized political correctness is sometimes overrated.

I'm not an big AoA fan either ... I've only read part of it, and skimmed through reviews on the rest. I consider it a story with the "once upon a time" factor, soemthing that never really existed because ... well, it never really did exist. If I recall correctly, the whole universe was wiped from existence at the end of the series, with only a few bits and pieces falling over into the main continuity at the whim of the authors. To me, it was more of an ongoing "What If ..." kind of thing, where I can say, "gee, I'm glad that never happened in the real story ...". I don't know what the new one is going to be like, likely I'll only ever read them if my significant other buys them first, but that one Rogue and Mags picture immediately made me think of you.

I agree with you on all your major points ... Magneto has got to be one of my favourite characters, because his development is several levels deeper than your average villain. He's among the first villains I remember being developed as deeply as the heroes were, which was a fantastic idea. I also hated a bunch of the new stuff they've doing with him ... making it seem like his whole purpose was to do such memorably evil things that would shock and amaze the poor, innocent little adolescent readers and put a big spotlight on that part of continuity ... "this is when Magneto , and it was written by ...". Magneto never struck me as being evil by nature ... more of a person who had come to the realization that evil things had to be done for the greater good, and he happened to have the chutzpah to do it. That, in my humble opinion, is the best type of villain ever: one who is merely a hero by nature, but with a very different point of view.

Character depth is one important feature, art and writing are others. Admittedly, it isn't usually the art I get upset about when it comes to comparing a "good" or a "bad" comic, mostly because I'm fervently trying to become a decent comic artist myself and I respect that everyone has their own preferred style. I'm not keen on this "thin as a twig" thing anymore than the overballooning proportions ... every scale has it's extremes. But I'm annoyed as any fan of the eighties books about the influence anime has been having in Western-style comics ... I don't hate anime (quite the contrary), I just despise the meshing of styles where they don't fit. Your "plastic dinnerware at a formal banquet" metaphor is spot-on perfect. I consider one of the a basic rules in comics to be that the art should reflect the tone of the writing. I know I know, we shouldn't exclude artists with different styles, blah blah blah ... But the styles by themselves are not people ... it's not segregation to attribute different styles for different things. You won't see Piccasso-style art in X-Men comics, because it just doesn't fit. The bubbly, big-eyed, bouncy-haired cartoony (and yes, it is cartoony, you just can't call that kind of anime realistic) flapping-mouthed and waving balloon-arms anime is totally the wrong style for the tone of most Marvel books. Unless you're doing something like "Mini-Mutants: Wolvie's First Day of School" or something, it just doesn't work. If you have a serious tone, you need a serious, and therefore more 'realistic', style. I don't even do comics for a living, but if I can figure this out, anyone should be able to. It's not rocket science.

Speaking of general quality of the books ... you've hit the nail dead on the head about originality in comics: the redundancy is starting to become evident even to me. I'm not a scholar on the lore of the Marvel U ... my knowledge is pretty much limited to certain X-Men characters and their involving continuity. But when it gets to the point where half the comics I pick up, my initial reaction is "Oh God, not again", there's got to be a problem. Revisiting old stories, getting new twists out of old themes ... it's all very nice for a bit of nostalgia or a new reflection, but too much just becomes redundant and boring. And then there's the whole "revamp the Marvel Universe" that's caught on after Ultimate came out ... where it seems every author wants to make some new thing out of something that's already been done to death ... and usually ends up making with mistakes in the resulting rush. I mean, a flaw like Rogue not being to touch her own child, even though she bore it in her own body, and therefore MUST have had tactile contact with it? Whatever emotional value this concept is supposed to elicit is totally destroyed by the glaring improbability. If books like that ever make it into my hands, they're usually never read again, let alone kept.

And yet, despite all of this, I still buy monthly titles. I still love comics. I believe there's hope for the business, but I'm not going to hold my breath for it to spontaneously happen tomorrow. Instead, I treasure the few books that stand out from the midden and hope that those creators, at least, know enough of what they're doing to keep the series special.

Heh. Looking back on this monster of an essay, I realized another reason to like your posts, Paty: they make me think, and they make me want to respond. That's really the whole purpose of a forum, isn't it? Not the smileys and piccys and teasers and spoilers ... they're nice, but it's the thinking and the responding that I really come back for.
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby Paty » Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:47 pm

:mags
heheheheheheheheee... yeah... that's the theory. We're supposed to talk about things. If we don't like a book or character and why...not just Ihate this or that... but why and how it could be improved in our estimation.
sometimes people don't want to hear bad thoughts about a creator they like or follow...only good stuff. But that cannot always happen. If no one points out that certain emperors have no clothes on, then everyone blythely goes on thinking am I the only stupid one who can't see the wonderful clothes and I better go along and praise the nonexistant clothes cuz I don't wanna seem stupid or uncool. If more people would voice what they really think and not be shouted down by people with limited agendas, the boards would be more interesting.... and ideas would or could flow back and forth with intelligent discussion of the various factors that go to make up one's dislike or acceptance of a book.

I dunno... to me, this kind of discussion is paramount. some people so identify with a particular creator... writer or artist... that if you criticize their fave's work, it is like you are criticizing them in their mind. And that is sooo crazy it isn't even funny. the people who create stories for fans to read and look at are humans too. They have their own agendas, their own tastes and their own way of looking at things. they get to put their ideas down on paper and get it printed for many to read and think about. But putting your ideas out there publicly means that you are gonna have people who donn't think or see that way and they have the right to "call" you son the things you espouse or say. You open yourself up to public scrutiny of your ideas and ideals and how they aggect what you write or draw. that's a given. All pros know this, even if they donn't want to admit it or deal with it when what they have done is so horrendous to the public that they get castigated for it in forum after forum. the opposite is trye, too. When you are doing good stuff, it is nice to hear fans applaud your efforts... not just the die hard loyal fans of your partivular style of writing or drawing... but the ones that come right out and say..."Hey... this is GOOD... I never thought so and so could do this kind of work... I'm gonna be sure to follow what is happening in this book !"

Yeah... diehard fans are the backbone of the industry. they keep it going. But getting new fans is just as important...especially since the industry seems to be losing ground to the more interactive games and video treatments. You don't have kids carrying a comic book around to relive the adventure when they can carry around a pocket video game that is different every time they turn the sucker on! and they can really be part of the action instead of just reading about it!

Which, of course leads me to believe that the editorial policies at the major studios and companies are myopic in their assessment of their audience these days. They are trying to keep an all male shop and supposedly appeal to female readers which are making up a larger and larger segment of the readership. More females read stories than males do. Yeah... sure, male readers form the basis of the comic book redership to date, but that is because the companies are geared to writing adventure books for boys. Always have been since the pulp magazines. But if the comic book biz wants to survive, they better get a better perspective on girls both in the books and DOING them!

You want to be a comic book artist? Lotsa luck, deary. The last time I really thought about female creators, besides railing that there were none, incessantly... was the time Dave came back from a convention, which I didn't attend cuz I was busy with a firemantic function... and told me this story.
He said that two artists approached him with their portfolios for his opinion. They were both gals and he looked at their work and told them that they were pro quality and had they taken their work up to the major companies to show it around cuz they could surely get work at DC or Marvel! ... silly boy, he likes women and doesn'tunderstand the aversion to women creators in the biz... They replied that they had been up to Marvel and, to quote them, "there's plenty of work for female creators at Marvel... all of it horizontal!" when Dave told me what they said, I told him that obviously things hadnn't changed in the twenty years since we were there. He just shook his head and muttered something about stupidity on the part of Marvel...but that's a given, too.

I think the only way it is gonna change is if someone makes a big enough lawsuit to embarass the companies... and then watch the hustle to get female writers and artists... but the one who 3willhave to make the stink won't be touched! You can bet! so that's the problem. If you wanna work in the biz, you endure the harassment and do what you have to do knowing you aren't gonna be allowed to do what you want to do ... write or draw...or you speak up and get blackballed for doing so....for rocking the boat... for daring to assail the boy's club treehouse.

As I said, honey... lotsa luck, There used to be an old joke that to get a job at marvel, you had to clasp your hands behind your head...swing your elbows forward until they are pointing front and walk towards the wall. If your elbows touched the wall ...you DIDN'T get the job. You figure it out.
Acually the best way to get into Marvel if you are female... and it by no means is a "given"... is to attach yourself to someone MALE that they value or want...or be willing to do things the boys arenn't by and large, asked to do. And I will leave THAT to the imagination as well. I cannot speak for DC or Imags... but I havennn't heard of any female superstars in writing or drawing... and havennnn't seen any touted in the ads... or seen any make the Wizard top ten lists since Christina Z made it for her work on the earliest withcblade series many many years ago. It's not that female writers and artists aren't out there... It's just that the companies, run by boys... don't encourage them or really want them...except as window dressing. coloring, lettering, editorial...don't aspire to anything more creative than that... and with editorial, you don't have nearly the power of a male editor... female editors come and go with the regularity of a revolving door... and we wonders why...NOT!

they will always keep some ethnic or female staffers around tocounter cries of discrimination... but look who has the power.
so if you are gonna try it... more power to you, dear... but be advised the air is toxic, the waters polluted and the ambience shitty for females in the biz. You better have a tough hide, heavy backup and primed and loaded ammo. I suggest getting something really dirty or compromising on someone very high up...LOL... and how you can do that is problematical... but it is, I believe, the only guarantee of success for a female. Talent won't do it... Compliancy won't do it for any length of time...and hard work???Ha! don't make me laugh.

With comic stories, you DO recycle plotlines. sometimes you do outright swipes and use them as a nod and a tip of the hat to creators of decades before. Sometimes you do it for nostalgia sake. But it is not in recycling plots...cuz there are no new stories... there's only recycled ones...LOL... but it is in HOW you recycle them. Heroes must be heroic. Villains, you got more leeway with...and to make a villain into an adversary with a following cuz there are people out there who KNOW what he says is right... well that is a masterpiece. Like Claremont with Magneto. You don't get it every day... once in a lifetimem, maybe...chuck Austen did wonderful things with Juggernaut... and sent him away so others couldn't muck it up... but youknow he'll be back...if only to keep the trademarked name active. that's the comic biz.
If you can make the readers wish that aa month wasn't thirty days and only seven... then you really have a handle on writing. If you can make a kid pick up the book just because the art is sooooo good he can't NOT pick it up...you can smile to yourself as you sweat over the drawing board.

And it still comes down to if the fans like what you are doing.
That's comics...
LOL
paty
:mags
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby Entropy » Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:40 pm

the artist that Doominabox showed is named Chris Bachalo. He's slightly anime influenced but less so than Joe Mad and many others, and is typically a very gritty, and puts a ton of detail in his stuff. while i can understand not wanting him to do X-related stuff (sometimes he overdoes things, or sometimes he's just to hard to follow, not a good thing in storytelling), this pic is not a very representative of his work.
3 comic cvers as one image
http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiec ... &GSub=2905
wolv and cap.
http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiec ... &GSub=2905
New X-men piece
http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiec ... &GSub=2069
an early piece from Shade (another of his styles)
http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiec ... &GSub=4650

and as far as female writers go, Gail Simone (formerly of Marvels Agent X and Deadpool and currently working on Birds of Prey for DC) is a phenominal writer. I've heard a great many fans who have said they'd love to have her on a X-title (me included). Unfortunately i don't see this happening any time soon (and not because of her DC exclusive status either).
Dave, your creations brought joy to my life and inspired my imagination. R.I.P.

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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby DoomInABox » Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:58 pm

If no one points out that certain emperors have no clothes on, then everyone blythely goes on thinking am I the only stupid one who can't see the wonderful clothes


Man, Paty, you are just full of good metaphors!

I agree, as long as we respect each other's opinion, and each other's right to have an opinion, there's no reason why people with opposing viewpoints can't have a polite and serious debate. I mean, what kind of debate can you have with someone who does nothing but agree with your every point? That's not a discussion, that's listening to yourself talk.

And I guess I came on strong about recycling plot stuff. I really do love it when I can point to something, and say "I remember THAT!" ... it makes me feel like a true comic book intellectual. But when an author doesn't bother to look up the continuity of a certain plot, or knows and doesn't care, and then does something that's just a complete and obvious rehash ... I don't blame writers who are new with the series, because sometimes rehashing is the best way to get a the right handle on things. But I thought there were titles like "X-Men Unlimited" to do that sort of thing, so continuity can be kept slightly less clogged with reused plots?

And thank you for the wish of luck, too. I take it sincerely, especially from someone who actually worked in the biz. I have my art sites posted in my signature if you or anyone else is ever curious (the deviantart one has the more recent stuff).

I did notice long ago that there was a distinct lack of female names in the credits of Marvel's comics, and it struck me a disturbingly suspisious. I do realize that there's probably one woman for every ten guys who like comic books, much less drawing them, but I figured SOME of them must have been good enough to reach the top of the tower, no? And believe me, I know I'm not deluding myself into thinking this is a happy, gender-equal society even fifty-so years after women's voting rights were spawned ... a lot still gets pushed under the rug where it seeps around the corners for any disillusioned person who looks for it. And I thought about it a lot ... it was a nasty worm in my stomach for a good long while before I came to the decision: Screw That. If they let me in fair (I'm still an innocent kid, I can hold onto optimism if I like), then that's fine, I have no problems. But I'm not going to bust my ass to be a floor-mat in a big company ... all I want is to draw comics, even if I have to print them myself, bind them with chewing gum and sell them on the internet. Heck my comic stores know me well enough that they'd take a few for me, (one even garaunteed it when I showed him my sketchbook), and hell-be-damned if they don't have a big-name logo on them. They'll still exist, and I'll be proud of them.

There's a girl in my city who started her own comic and put it into print; she has a company studio name and everything. All the comic stores in my city know and love her ... she's our hero. Her staff consists of her (the artist/writer), the editor/co-writer, and a few friends that help them with deliveries and such. She either prints here in the city, or sends off to the coast to get them done on quality paper. She's not making loads of money off of her one title, (they both hold down full time jobs elsewhere), but she sold out 1500 copies of the first two issues just in my city alone. The demand for them got her to print second editions, and to start printing double quantity of the rest. I had the opportunity to talk to her about how she managed it all and who her printers were.

And as for big female names in comics, here's one ... WENDY PINI. Wendy Pini drew Elfquest, which has been published by a multitude of different companies (no one can quite decide which to attribute it to) and I believe Marvel may have been among them at some point in time. In any case, she is my branch in the river, and I'm holding on with tooth and nail. I mean, you must have seen Elfquest somewhere. The art is beyond fabulous. I don't care if the title couldn't stay in one place, it is still being printed and re-printed and TPB'ed, and what's more, some of the new artists have kept her style to the tee. So they want proof women can draw for the big guns? Wendy Pini.

So yeah, I'm gonna write and draw the books I always wanted to see on the shelf, and like you said, connections are everything. Most of the stores in my city know me by name ... mostly because a lot of owners have more than one store. I don't have to tolerate all that nasty stuff ... not because I'm a coward, but because the big name's just not important enough to me to swim my way through the mire gestating under those rugs. I don't need to climb the tower when I can start building my own, neh? Even if it doesn't go very high, it's still mine.


Phew! You know, a couple months of these essay-posts, and I'll be writing my term papers in my sleep!

And Entropy, just so you know, I wasn't slandering Chris Bachalo's art (I actually didn't even know who the artist was when I posted). I've recognized the pictures you posted from comics I either own or have read. His style is unique and very characteristic ... and most of it I wouldn't even think of as being anime influenced. I've really liked his other work, even if I didn't know who he was until now. I just found that Rogue-Magneto picture wasn't that great, like you said, not representative of his real skill. Meh. We all have our down days. Anyway, thanks for posting those links, and that stuff about Gail Simone ... it's nice to know things like that.
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby Paty » Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:05 am

:mags
Heh...Yeah... I know Wendy... I have worked with her or for her. When she and richard started Father Tree Press and branched out back in the mid nineties, they lived about an hours drive from us... over in Poughkeepsie. I did coloring for her when she started letting other people dosome of the elf stories. I liked both her art and storytelling on the early Elfquest stuff and had a lot of the early b/w issues in our collection... and most of the later redone color versions in trade paperback, too.
She, last time I heard, was still on the west coast trying to sell the Elfquest franchise to someone to make a movie. don't know what ever became of that. Last I heard, Richard was holding the fort in Poughkeepsie and putting out the Elfquest book every quarter or so... but that was several years ago... don't know what's happened with them lately.
wendy and I tended to butt heads a bit. We are both alpha females. she, in her fan days used to dress up as Red Sonja... with coin bra and all...LOL... damn thing weighed a ton, cuz she used real metal sewed on a cloth backing. But she wasn't really Red Sonja... I was. She couldn't kill... I can if necessary. She merely pretended...and I suppose that's OK.
She self published Elfquest when Richard still worked for IBM and supported the endeavor. He eventually quit IBM and went into publishing with Father Tree Press/Warp Graphics... and I don't know if that imprint is still extant. Haven't seen it in Previews lately... but then I don't always look in Previews every month... so maybe he is still publishing a quarterly title... although I cannot think it would be enough to sustain life in New York State!!!
Anyone out there know what's happening with the Elfquest titles?
I do know that I once offered a suggestion for a story... did a whole synopsis for it with some spot art showing the main character and gave it to her for consideration. Never heard anything and finally asked some of the other staff if they knew anything about it. They said they had seen it and read it and it was very good... too good...LOL... it was their opinion that Wendy didn't want that kind of competition in storytelling f with her characters... it was TOO good... deep and insightful and used the characters to a depth that had rarely been seen. I thought it was a good plot but was taken aback by their approbation of it. I had also thrown out a storyline about my fave elf, Skywise, at Richard and he was keen for it as it was somewhere he had thought to go with the character but had never done so. The guys on staff said she shot it down too... it was, once again, too good.
wendy was a tricky person to work for. she wanted to always control everything ... from pencilling to inking styles to coloring styles. Now, I have my own style of coloring and if you don't want it or like it, then don't hire me. But if you hire me, you know what your are gonna get... so don't try to change my style wholesale and make me a shadow of yourself...cuz that won't happen. Artists, like writers, develop a "style" that is uniquely theirs. You either like it or you don't. sometimes they will make some changes if they consider them valid points of contention... but they won't change for change's sake just to peease someone who should have done it themselves if they wanted it to look like they did it.
LOL...As I said, Wendy was hard to work for. She wanted Dave to ink stuff for her, but wshe wanted him to come into the office and ink there so she could tell him how to ink and draw. That's chutzpah. He wouldn't do it. She wanted me to color in the office... and I wouldn't do it. It would have meant going all the way over across the river every day... and warp Graphics wasn't Marvel...besides, I hate people looking over my shoulder and telling me what to do when I had been doing it longer than they had. Maybe I amjust persnikkety...but no... Wendy and I butted heads on some color choices and I came to think that she had some color blindness in certain hues...not an unreasonable thing...cuz she couldn't see the difference in certain hues when the values were close. Iwould say "Wendy, they are two very different colors and they pop out from each other..."and she would say "No... they don't... they are the same..." I would say "They have the same value... but not the same hue..." and she couldn't see the difference. so we butted heads. on it Once in a while she would change something in house ... but not often...thank goodness.
The first thing I colored for her was a piece by John
Byrne in the first Summer Special... it was called "the Price of a soul"... beautiful stuff. When I saw the art I remarked that here was proof that Byrne could really draw if he chose to. I liked coloring that piece very much. I am not a Byrne fan as i consider his work entirely too cartoony... but this was a nicely illustrative fantasy piece using Two Edge and his ma, Winnowill.

Self publishing, if you can sustain the basic printing costs is not a bad way to get started. there is nothing like seeing your stuff in print to make you look at it with a different iey and note the things that work and the things that don't. It is an entirely different thing to see stuff in print than to look at the original pages... as anyone who has done art can tell you. After it's printed, you see EVERY mistake you made!!! LOL... even if others don't.
And being able to say "Look, here's a book Idid...it sold fifteen hundred copies in limited release..." and have it show your storytelling skills in a printee format is a biggie. It is a lot more immpressive in a portfolio than just spot illos or practice pages. and it is great experience. sometimes it woll segue into a gig at a major company ... sometimes it won't. Yes, Marvel did print some issues of Elfquest for a while. don't know why they didn't continue... but it could have been anything from printer's rerogatives to owner's rights...to sales. who knows?

It's a very tricky biz...I shall try to make some time to go look at your sites and let you know what I think. OK?
LOL
Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
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GRAND MAGNETO THREAD

Postby Paty » Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:19 am

:mags
OK... we have kinda gotten off the beaten path here...This thread is supposed to be about Magneto...LOL

In the most recent Excalibur.. number 9...let's see if i do this right... ... [spoiler] Magneto is in Genosha... he has brought Wanda back from that abortion of an Avengers Disassemble fiasco... and is sitting by her bed. The place is dreary although he has managed to find some bedding and some unprepossiessng furniture.. He finally gets up, stretches and goes out to talk to Karima and tell her he wants Xavier back here NOW! When he walks back into the room in which Wanda is sleeping, or comatose... whichever... you see a whole change in the room. The wallpaper is scarlet with gold touches, the furniture is beautiful and well appointee., even to the kind of chair he was siting on... the rug underfoot is a rich Persian. Mags doesn't apparently notice... but Wanda is warping reality even in a comatose state... it is verrrrry interesting. did anyone else catch that little piece of subtlety?.. just a random thought here....[/spoiler]

sorta a small Magneto moment there...LOL... and what do you think it means? Any comments?

Paty
:mags
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
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