Dave on the X-men Again?

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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby HoodedMan » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:25 pm

"I'm sensing just a bit of tension here!" :p

It does rather seem a shoddy way of running a business. Has anyone bothered to ask anyone in upper management about the methods (or lack thereof) behind the madness? (If they didn't know before, maybe they do now :p)

In any case, it doesn't sound like too much of a fun place to work (though you're doing what you enjoy, it's just held up by other people). I had a situation like this once at a newspaper (wrote story way before deadline, editor totally forgot about it) and it irritated me to hell. I eventually became freelance because of it. :x

In any case, you have my condolences for what they're worth; I hope nothing like this happens to Dave and I look forward to seeing what develops. :)
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Paty » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:32 pm

:mags
LOL... the trail of script/synopsis to penciller, to office, to letterer, to office to inker to office, to colorist, to office...to printer... is the grand circle of cimic bookmakeup. Now, some of the steps may have changed with the advent of computers. I don't know if lettering is now done by computer and laid in by the printer, or not. It may still be laid onto the original art for all I know... details of production change with the advent of new technology... but the time any aspect of this chain sets on an editor's desk can often remain the same..alas. so writers and artists are yelled at, pressured and coerced into turning in work by a certain date. Now, sometimes these dates are kosher... and sometimes thay are not.
I could always tell when my boss, Sol Brodsky, was up against a tight deadline cuz he would hover around my office until I would stand up and tell him to go away if he wanted the project by the time he needed it. when he had built in a two week buffer zone between the time he told me he needed it and the time he REALLY needed it, he was nowhere in sight...unless I missed MY deadline... which I rarely did...and then only if he inserted other projects with more time pressing deadlines. He knew better than to yell at me for these particular latenesses... cuz he caused them... a truth I was only too willing to point out to him. I never took blame for shit that wasn't my fault. LOL...
so as of tuesday the eighth of March, to my knowledge, Dave has not yet recieved the script for GSX3. Considering his health ... or lack thereof... and such, this is not a wise move on their part.but then, we know that the editors don't know what they are doing... so ... par for the course.
Now, Dave contacted his editor on the project, and the editor said that Joss hadn't turned in the script yet... so that is why Dave hasn't gotten it. OK...Joss should be made aware of the fact that Dave is old and not healthy and is probably not as sippy-fast as some of these young turks he is used to dealing with...or maybe he is just too busy with other things.
I dunno...the skinny is that Marvel likes to work at least two months ahead of print run... and this is a wise policy. It was always supposed to be that way... but it never was.. writers can be late... artists are ALWAYS late... it's a given... so most otf the time, everything ran late...LOL... cuz no one knew the definition of "deadline". this was the reason for a lot of those "dreaded deadline doom"s of early comic book history. when you slipped in a reprint or a specially done singl, stand alone 'tale' of another time or place...while the artist and writer and production staff had a chance to cach up. Editors were known to keep special stories complete in a drawer... with coloring and everything done...ready to ship to the printer in case of a deadline emergency. they were wise. The stupid ones trusted the writers and artists to deliver on schedule.
wne, however, cannot fault an artist when the script/synopsis has not been presented to him...

Oh well...sooner or later the script will turn up I suppose. I just hope there is enough time for Dave to do it. He's not as fast as he once was... and he was second only to Neal Adams in late deadlines...LOL...Neal was notorious for missing them... but when the pages DID come in, they were to DIE for! Dave was like that in his heyday... late pages, but when they came in, you could see the work put in on them and understand that that kind of art didn't happen overnight.

So we shall see how long these boyos are gonna take to get crackin'

Paty
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Dark Bamf » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:09 pm

Re the Avengers cover: It's Sentry vs the General. I was initially confused because they sent me two shots of Sentry and the scan of the General didn't come through, so I thought the good guy and the bad guy were twins.

I'm delayed getting started on the cover, because I blew a vein in my left eye--my good eye--and until it clears up, I can't see well enough to draw.

Dave
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Paty » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:32 pm

:mags
doesn't sound to me like you can start anyway... they haven't sent you reference on the general, have they?
I don't know about anyone else, but after Avengers Disassemble, i won't ever buy another Avengers book. they made wanda the villain...they killed characters that had formed the heart of the Avengers for decades...including my fave, the vision...and I want Marvel to godown in flames cuz they obviously haven't the talent to just tell good stories... they gotta destroy everything good and replace it with their shoddy, shallow crap.
I expect them to follow the Hardass/Morrison tact that makes Mags a shallow eeeevil villain... and when they do, I shall walk away from Marvel forever... and a lot of folk I know, loyal readers for decades, will do the same thing...I know, cuz they have told me so. I already know readers who won't pick up an X book until the Scott/Emma adultery is retconned out of existance or at least Scott is relieved of total moral decay by exposing the fact that Emma used her powers to seduce him and he was too stupid to see it. He was probably so used to a telepath going into his mind, between Xavier and Jean... that he had no innate defenses or even a tiny glimmer of what was happening. that would be acceptable to these readers...but nothing else.
Now, they are taking Emma down the road of barging into people's minds willy nilly anyway... so maybe they are going in that direction. All I know is that there are a lot of angry Scott fans out there...
Add to that the angry Hawkeye, vision and Magneto fans and you have a shitload of hostile fandom. they aren't the ones who flood the airwaves with whining and yelling... they are the silent majority... and if Marvel ever wonders why they can't break a hundred thou on books that used to regularly sell between one and two hundred thou, a big reason is that they have so warped the characters the older readers were following, that those readers have left...and won't be back while the present characterization exists.
guess noone ever told them that you cann't make Robin Hood a nazi and expect people to follow you anywhere.
In the meantime...Marvel stumbles on... they still haven't sent Dave a script he could be thinking about...
sigh...


Paty
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Nightcrawler ZERO » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:55 am

wow- just did a look-up, and there are no less than 5 marvel villains named "the General"- let alone those named "General__________"

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/appcharg.htm
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby CylverSaber » Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:19 am

Jemas who kept objecting to what he was doing with some of the characters...my guess is Scott/Jean/Emma...

Bill Jemas, the guy who championed projects such as Marville, Rawhide Kid, Bad Girls for Fanboys, etc, having a problem with portraying Marvel characters in a bad light? Not likely. That guy practically lived off of portraying Marvel characters in as salacious and controversial a way as possible, and outright stated that he liked to upset fans because controversy was good for sales.

Reportedly, the problems between Morrison and Jemas arose from Morrison's preference for way out there, cosmic type of stories, and Jemas' preference for street-level stories. Jemas also had a lot of edicts like "no flashbacks", and that kind of interference got on Morrison's nerves.

a nice incestuous little office with not a seasoned pro in sight. Oh... I forgot Rabbit Ralf...

There's also Tom Brevoort, who's been at Marvel for more than 15 years.


Oh well...sooner or later the script will turn up I suppose. I just hope there is enough time for Dave to do it.

These days, Marvel isn't too worried about late books... they have a ton of them. So if it takes Dave a little longer, they'll probably just reschedule it. Heck, Joss's Astonishing X-Men has been late a couple of times itself.


wow- just did a look-up, and there are no less than 5 marvel villains named "the General"- let alone those named "General__________"

I have a feeling it's a brand new character they created for the Sentry.
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Nightcrawler ZERO » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:05 pm

Originally posted by CylverSaber
wow- just did a look-up, and there are no less than 5 marvel villains named "the General"- let alone those named "General__________"

I have a feeling it's a brand new character they created for the Sentry.


I don't know- one of the big points Bendis made when discusssing New Avengers was that he'd be using a lot of clasic villains who hadn't been used in a while. Plus, look at the incident that brought the New Avengers togethe- a prison full of old-school villains being busted open.
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby mt_rambler » Wed Mar 09, 2005 6:59 pm

Originally posted by Paty
All I know is that there are a lot of angry Scott fans out there...
Paty


And angry Jean Grey fans not only do they break up her marrage and have Scott be with a woman who has tried to kill the X-Men from the start. But then kill off Jean for what the 100th time.
Be seeing you,
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Nightcrawler ZERO » Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:48 pm

Found this on Newsarama:

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread. ... adid=29174

Bendis also added that the alternate covers for Steve McNiven’s arc (#7-#9) which focuses on The Sentry will be by Dave Cockrum (#7), John Romita Sr. (#8 – a wedding cover at character creator Paul Jenkins’ request), and Marie Severin (#9). As Bendis posted, “If you do not know these names, please go find out who they are. They are true greats.


so now we know what issue Dave's drawing for. And he seems to be in pretty good company as far as the other creators drawing alternate covers go.
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Dark Bamf » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:15 am

I've got the 'general' reference and the Joss script. And the eye appears to be clearing up at least enough that I can work with it, though I still see blood clot residue in it, like little Rhorshak blots and little broken snakes.

:bamf
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Diablo » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:41 pm

We're supporting you Dave ! I'm sure you'll be doing fine.... and I just can't wait for this !! :bamf:bamf
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Indigo » Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:46 am

Some pics of the General for those who are curious -


Image


Image

I can't wait to see and purchase your cover Dave.
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby JasonSacks » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:58 am

How's the art coming along on the cover and GSXM #3? I'm looking forward to both!
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby JUSTOOGOOD » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:50 pm

Congrats Dave, thanks Marvel and lucky for us.:bamf
I'm the best there is at what I do...
...no wait,
...that's someone else.

*ANYTHING STATED IN THE ABOVE POST IS MERELY THE OPINION OF MYSELF: UNLESS SUPPORTED BY FACTS/SOURCES ETC*
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Paty » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:08 pm

:mags
Well...
Bad news, guys and gals...Dave's bouts with dialysis are soing some good but leaving him too washed out to do the story for GS 3...Good news is that Neal Adams, I believe, is gonna do it in Dave's stead. Or at least that's what Cliff tells me. In any event it should be a good looking story, since Neal is one hell of an artist and actually helped Dave to get his first professional comics work.
Dave is adjusting to the dialysis with a bit of snarling and growling but the alternative is six feet under... and as time goes on and they leech more of the toxins out of his system, he may perk up and be able to return to work. He thinks he can still do the Avengers cover, as it has plenty of time to go until it's deadline.
He was doing pretty good before this past weekend and we were hoping he could do the project bfore he had to start dialysis, but it caught up with him very rapidly...and this is not unusual, we are told. He managed to stay off dialysis almost half a year longer than the docs thought he would...so that was good. but when the kidneys really fail... they do it rapidly, and Dave was operating on just one... the other having given up the ghost a while back. So when this happened, it happened fast and while they werenn't gonna dialyze him when they put in the catheter, it turned out that they had to, cuz his toxicity rose and his O2 plummetted into life threatening levels. so they dialyzed him right thebn and there...That was last Friday. Monday was his first regular dialysis and he is out to the dialysis unit today, as I type this. He goes again on Friday. This first couple of weeks is really gonna wash him out... until he gets used to the procedure. Hopefully, once his body gets used to the dialysis, he can be weaned off the oxygen...but we shall see.
diabetes is a very nasty degenerative disease... so anybody out there who has to eat candy to stave off low blood sugar attacks or who pees more tan normal or who has tingling in their fingers or feet...should get themselves a checkup...with emphasis on diabetes testing. It is not a disease to screw araoun with. It can kill you...or make you wish it HAD killed you!
Otherwise, Dave is in as good spirits as possible...under the circumstances. I know he checked in yesterday to see what was happening at Nightscrawlers and he will probably check in later..possibly not today but maybe tomorrow. The dialysis takes it's toll right now. four hours of being uncomfortable and wishing you were somewhere ...anywhere... else.

so that's the latest news from Cockrum Corner... which, by the way, is what we have named the studio on the corner of our property! LOL
Paty
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Diablo » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:15 pm

Ow, sad news Paty... :(
I hope you'll be back soon, Dave.
Neal Adams is a good choice, but I SO hope you'll draw the elf again.
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Paty » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:14 pm

:mags
Yeah, he hopes so, too...this crash came hard and fast. and kinda took us by surprise. We knew he would have to go on dialysis sooner or later but the rapidity with which it finally hit was amazing. He managed to go without it about half a year beyond what the docs expected... but when the ol kidney crashed, it did so with a bang!
so we shall see how Dave adapts to this procedure... it is an intrusion in his life, to be sure... but others have bounced back and led good, productive lives after going into dialysis... It's all up to Dave. And I know the support and loyalty of his fans is a great incentive to him...so thanks, darlin', for the support.
Huggies
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Dark Bamf » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:04 pm

I want to apologize to all yoou fans out there and the folks at Marvel, for letting my human frailties interfere with the GSX-M3n #3 project. Various side effects of the dialysis have left me weak and very shaky, and drawing is very difficult. Presumably, once my body settles into the dialysis routine, I'll be able to manage better. Oh, and BTW, the skin doctors also whacked off a chunk of my nose a cou[ple weeks ago, to remove a basil cell carcinoma, with the result that Paty says I now look like a pekinese.

:bamf
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby HoodedMan » Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:02 pm

You can't apologise for something you have no control about! I'm sure, though I don't speak for anyone in particular, that no one can blame you for your "human frailties". After all, you are only human! :)

I do hope that you get better, but there's no rush on it or goal; I just hope you feel better!
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Paty » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:41 pm

:mags
LOL... well...he DOES look like a Pekinese! and it gives new meaning to "looking like your dog! All you will remember we got dave a Peke to entice him to get well last year... now, they match!!!

LOL
Paty
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby CylverSaber » Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:40 am

Originally posted by Dark Bamf
I want to apologize to all yoou fans out there and the folks at Marvel, for letting my human frailties interfere with the GSX-M3n #3 project.


No apologies warranted Dave. I'm only disappointed that Marvel won't delay the book to allow your health to catch up.
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby Indigo » Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:13 pm

Just get better Dave! I know I can wait a little longer for a Dave Cockrum fix.
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby BruHed » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:15 pm

Hi there--just read the bad news (Cliff told me yesterday) and wanted to add my well-wishes to the well!
This is only my second post since joining last year, so I'm not a regular, but I have no less love for Dave, Paty and their respective work. I hope Dave returns to his board ASAP.
BTW, did you check into one of those portable dialysis machines? (Invented by Dean Kamen, also inventor of the Segway and son of EC great Jack Kamen) I don't know about the cost or availability, but it wouldn't hurt to check out.

Anyway, BEST of the best to the best of the rest.
Thanks much,
Mike

P.S.: I heard they might get Rob Liefeld to draw Nightcrawler in the story. (Obligatory April Fool's gag!) :LOL
Mike P, so-called creator of "America's Favorite Blockhead"(tm)
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby BH123 » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:36 pm

Originally posted by Dark Bamf
I want to apologize to all yoou fans out there and the folks at Marvel, for letting my human frailties interfere with the GSX-M3n #3 project.


Well, yes, I am disappointed. But you certainly have nothing to apologise for. Of course your health must come first.

In any case, I look forward to your eventual return to comics, sooner or later, whenever it does come. And I wish you the best of luck in overcoming your current ailments.
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Dave on the X-men Again?

Postby JasonSacks » Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:19 am

Dave, just get well. You've already created a tremendous legacy of great comics. Now worry about taking care of yourself.
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