sketch of kurt and ororo

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sketch of kurt and ororo

Postby prettyminotaur » Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:49 pm

Dave, I seem to remember seeing a great sketch of Kurt and Ororo that you did way back when...is there a file of that lurking around somewhere?

Thanks very much for creating Nightcrawler. He's been a source of much joy to me over the years! (obviously!)

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Postby Dark Bamf » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:53 pm

Which sketch are you thinking of? I've done quite a few of the two of theem together.,

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Postby prettyminotaur » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:41 pm

They were sitting under a tree...

So, the rumors are true, Dave, and you're a Kuroro supporter from way back? :D

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Postby Dark Bamf » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:57 pm

Oh, that's the one that was published in one of the very expensive X-Men hardcover coffeetable books. Chris Claremont owns (or owned, anyway) the original. I drew it on the back of a page, and gave it to him as a gift. I do have file copies, but it's also been published in one of my sketchbooks printed by Aardwolf.

I never heard the term Kuroro before, but I get it. I did sort of lean in that direction for awhile. Around the time of Uncanny #150, I flirted with the idea of a Storm/Magneto pairing (Paty did a gorgeous piece of Storm and Mags kissing), but I've since come to the conclusion that there's no man in the Marvel universe who's worthy of her.

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Postby prettyminotaur » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:16 pm

She is pretty spectacular...but I like the idea of putting her with Kurt. I'll look for that sketch some more...thanks!

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sketch of kurt and ororo

Postby JRCarter » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:36 pm

Originally posted by Dark Bamf
I never heard the term Kuroro before, but I get it. I did sort of lean in that direction for awhile. Around the time of Uncanny #150, I flirted with the idea of a Storm/Magneto pairing (Paty did a gorgeous piece of Storm and Mags kissing), but I've since come to the conclusion that there's no man in the Marvel universe who's worthy of her.
:bamf


Not even this guy?


Image

Although, I think every guy wanted Ororo back then. It's been a common theme in X-Men comics that there was one female all the guys thought about. In the beginning, it was Jean, then Storm, then Dazzler, then Psylocke. Now it's Emma.
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sketch of kurt and ororo

Postby Diablo » Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:19 am

A Storm/Nightcrawler relationship would be welcome.
But I doubt it will ever happen...

(and I'm not a fan of the Storm/t'Challa couple. A little too easy)

A little question : Dave, who do you think Nightcrawler would get involved with if you had to choose one and only one woman among all the Marvel Universe babes ? ;)
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sketch of kurt and ororo

Postby Dark Bamf » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:39 am

Tough question. I liked the Kurt/Cerise pairing, but in the long run I'd opt for Kurt/Meggan.

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Postby Diablo » Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:32 pm

I was sure of your answer, Dave ! :)

I totally agree : Meg and Kurt are a great, great couple... though I like the Nightcrawler/ Scarlet Witch pairing too. :wanda;)
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sketch of kurt and ororo

Postby Dark Bamf » Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:50 am

I never saw the Kurt/wanda pairing. That was in one of the offshoot series I never read.

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Postby Paty » Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:21 pm

:magneto
Yeah... after the scene in Uncanny 150 where Storm walked into Magneto's bedroom and stood there watching him sleep... which, though I know neither Dave nor Chris meant it to be erotic, was one of the most erotic scenes...hmmmm...I did the piece of art Dave mentions...LOL... which is one of Dave's favorites, I believe. You can check it out over on my website at:

http://www.patycockrum.com/

if you want... I forget which gallery it is in..LOL...but it is there I am sure...probably the Magneto gallery...LOL...

As to the drawing of Kurt and Storm... I thought it was in the gallery here...and if it isn't, it may be over at Dave's official website at:

http://www.officialdavecockrum.com

I am not sure of all the stuff that is there and we are still working on both of those sites... so check back every once in a while if you don't find it. I will warn you that, unlike some other sites that have Dave's and my work on them, possibly even this site...you cannot rightclick on either of our home sites to download pix from them... sorry...but we have had people steal art and post it where we don't want it to be posted... totally without our permission. a friend actually found some of my Magneto work on a PORN site... fer cry eye!!! So I strongy suggest to the mods that if there isn't a right click lock on the gallery here that they should get one in place...also Jason, if he is peeking in...on the cockrum site he set up for Dave a year or so ago. Jason... if you need help doing this, let me know and I will give you the addy of our webpage designer and she can walk you through the process to do this.

I wouldn't have minded a scarlet with/kurt pairing but they have so destroyed her between Avengers disassembled andd House of M that i don't even know the character any more... much less identify with her...sigh... but I still think a Storm/Kurt pairing would be grand...beats her being paired with Woverine, whom I consider merely a thug any more... all vestage of his heroic warrior image haveing been shattered by very un heroic nastiness in recent scripting. I was never sanguine about Logan... after all... he has razor blades coming out of his hands and he is not loathe to use them... and we are talking major slice and lots of blood every thime he does... so thugville he has always been for me... and lately he has been even worse cuz these children don't have any inkling of how an honorable warior acts... sigh... but that's another diatribe altogether... Kurt is such a cutie I haven't yet found someone beyond Storm that i consider worthy... and I thought Meggan was partnered with Captain Britain... or is that just House of M kaka del toro?


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Postby Angelique » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:26 am

Meggan and Britannic married at the end of the old Excalibur series.
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sketch of kurt and ororo

Postby Paty » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:12 pm

:magneto

good.. this shows you how much I remember of that series...LOL...so OK... Megan is out for Kurt....thankfully the "priest" thing is a moot point...did anyone ever really BELIEVE the Catholic church would ordain a priest who looked like a demon??? Gimme a break!
so we can takd him back to the swashbuckling Kurt of yore... the one Dave created...yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaa...which means a healthy interest in women. so we're back to square one with who to pair him with, aren't we?

sigh... Well, there's still 'Ro...LOL

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Postby Angelique » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:42 pm

^Actually, if the church in the Marvel Universe had any basis in real Catholicism, it could happen. They're not that caught up in physical appearances.

Oh, and the Church is far less likely to ordain a man who doesn't have a healthy interest in women. There is a difference between vowing to control that interest for the sake of one's calling and not having any interest to begin with.
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Postby Paty » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:40 pm

:magneto
too true. but about the time the whole "priest" thing came out in the books, the RC church here in America was embroiled in the public scandal of child abuse... and I doubt the church would have wanted the controversy of a demonic looking priest... no matter how well intentioned and mannerly he was..LOL they had enough controversy on their plate at the time. churches suffer in public opinion when controversy within it's walls rears it's head...
then again... Kurt is German and he might very well have been a priest in the Lutheran church whose rituals and such closely resemble the Catholic church from which they sprung... I don't know if it was ever established that he was, indeed, Roman Catholic. But I am sorry...I cannot believe any christian church ordaining a demonic looking priest... no matter what! wouldn't happen.. I don't care if he IS a dashing superhero with the X Men...that was part of the whole thing with mutant kind... their differences and the humans' lack of acceptance...and the high muckety mucks of any group are so totally aware of their... and their organization's... public personna/visual acceptance factor that it wouldn't happen. the whole thing was never real enough to me to be considered real canon ...at least in my mind. It was ludicrous.
Kurt's obvious and well known attraction for and to women would have made his sacrifice a real one in that regard. I just don't think he could have managed to get past the physical identification barrier. There is too much superstition connected with the church's denounciation of "demons" in it's lore to have allowed that to happen. and let's face it... pointy ears... forked tail, glowing eyes...fangs...brimstone stench when he bamfs, indicating an excursion into or through the nether regions...demon for a father... we are talking demonic background and appearance here...and the Catholic church just is not THAT liberal...sorry. we might see female priests before we would see a demon lookalike ordained... and you know how hidebound the church is about females in priest roles. Bet it doesn't happen in MY lifetime! I ain't holdin' MY breath on that one!!! Even though it is conceeded by many clerical scholars that Mary Magdalene WAS, indeed, a disciple... and therefore women can be priests, too...it is not happenin', kiddo. snowball's chance in hell... as it were...and we arenn't talking hell frozen over, either...in other words..don't make book on it...

There's still always "Ro... and that takes us back to the drawing...
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Postby Angelique » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:07 pm

Actually, Bavaria is predominantly Catholic, so it would make less sense for him to be Lutheran. (The Lutheran Church also does not have a celibate clergy, and Lutherans tend not to pray the rosary.) And I am all too familiar with the scandal. (Not a fun time to be Catholic.) Nonetheless, I also know that differences in physical appearance have not prevented some people I know from serving excellently in the priesthood.
I would wonder about anyone who'd complain about Kurt looking like a demon, like just exactly how they'd know how a demon would look. :shifty
Besides, I thought it was established that Azzy's a mutant. Not a demon.
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Postby Paty » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:06 pm

:magneto
Well.. I have found that in metropolitan areas of the US, because of a large influx of so many different races, styles of dress, basic physiology... that you get a lot more tolerance in many regards. and some individuals are very tolerant of differences, even in small towns. but then there's the large body of very vocal folk who want everything their way so they can feel comfortable... and even if they are in a minority, they make their voices heard loudly and stridently. Other, more tolerant , genteel folk try to ignore them and consequently, they are the ones that get heard and sometimes even set policy for majorities that eschew their bigotries.

These days superstition doesn't play as great a role as it once did... but such observable differences would garner comment, at least... and the tone of the books is that even mutants who can pass as normal looking are not tolerated and persecuted... so one that looks like Kurt does would hardly be accepted.

This is not to say, you understand, that I don't love Kurt's look... heh...I'm the one who gave him velvet skin! Dave gave blue... with the yellow eyes... but wondered one day what blue skin felt like. I was standing there and said.."It's like soft, very fine velvet... or the short underfur of a beaver...very fine and short, velvety hair all over his body!!!" Chris, who was also there at the time, since the discussion took place in my office at Marvel...thought for a minute... then he said"I LIKE it!" Dave liked it too... so Kurt had blue velvet fur... ALL over his body... which, of course, makes no sense in him growing the stupid goatee thing he had a couple years back. His body hair doesn't work that way! But I digress...

going into the Lutheran priesthood, since it does allow priests to marry would be logical for Kurt... as I cannot see him giving up the ladies! LOL...but I am not sure even the Lutherans would tolerate such a demonic LOOKING person in clergy. The imagry of two thousand years of religious art is still so strong that I don't think it would happen. I mean... people still have problems with SKIN COLOR ... fer cry eye! And it's not just the Catholics, either...so I am not trying to bash the RC church...everybody has this picture of what a "demon" looks like...and getting THAT image outta someone's head... anyone's head isn't gonna be easy. And especially when the group are high profile.

Plus you had the thing that to be a priest, youhave to go through years of training... and where did Kurt have time to do this? He's veen actively superheroing since we first met him. while you can do mail order preacheism... I still don't think you can become a priest that quickly or easily... the training period for priests is arduous and long.. cuz they don't want people who do not feel a true commitment... and are willing to give up certain hard to give up things... like sex. so where he had the time to do his studies , not only academically, but in religion and religious canon and such that is mandatory for ordaining, is beyond me... so to me, the whole priesthood thing was bogue in the Nth degree.. simply a whim of a writer. I know Chris was leaning in the direction of making him very religious... an ironic juxtaposition to his appearance... but while Dave drew the book, he fought it... cuz basically Nightcrawler is his alter ego...and dave is not religious at all.

so that's why I commented as I did. It just never made sense.
At least... to either Dave or me...

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Postby Angelique » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:24 pm

Like I said, I didn't care for how the books went about Kurt juggling superheroics and seminary. (Not in the least bit realistic, and while transitional deacons do have the right to wear the collar, not many of them do.)

I also chafe when people say this or that about the Church. For one, in Catholic art, portrayals of the devil are relatively few and far between. The most common image is the serpent with its head under Mary's foot. Looks nothing like Kurt. Also, where demons are described in the Bible, they also look like seven headed dragons with ten horns, that sort of thing.

I'm trying to recall from my days studying art history in college as to when the devil was depicted as a rougly humanoid sort with pointy ears and a tail, and I'm drawing a blank. But it wasn't until sometime in the Middle Ages. Even so, such a depiction is not as common.

The priests I've known that had the most obvious physical differences were not in major metropolitan areas. (Although Boise, Idaho is getting to be too large a city for my taste, it's hardly a major population center.) And among the teachers in my high school, they were the most popular.

Also, there's a reason why hate groups number Catholics among their targets. So of course I'm going to bristle when the Marvel universe numbers the Catholic Church among those who hate mutants. Sure, mutants may be feared and hated. That doesn't mean everyone fears and hates them. (Also, I forget what issue this is in, but a Father Bowman, after getting over the initial shock of Kurt's appearance, didn't seem to have any problem with that.)

I actually enjoy the X-Men much more because, even if there is only a token Catholic character (and statistically, there should be more than one X-Man that's Catholic, or at least practicing some religion), there is a relative lack of sympathetic openly religious characters in popular culture. So you can imagine how I appreciate when somebody tries and fails to accurately represent the faith of my favorite superhero- in a positive light. Because at least somebody's trying.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I could certainly think of worse pairings than Kuroro. However, as much as I agree that nobody in the current Marvel universe is worthy of Ororo, I'm kind of leaning toward believing the same thing about Kurt.
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Postby Paty » Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:05 am

:magneto

LOL... Yeah... I take your point. the comics were originally aimed at the great Protestant masses out there in good ol' US of A land. For years, if not decades... there was no mention of religion... except in the very broadest t of terms. then Claremont gave Magneto his Holocause background and brough in Kitty Pryde with her Mogan David pendant... and suddenly peoples of other religions started to have a superdoop of THEIR OWN ! Even if he was an adversary... Mags belonged to the Jewish kids... and so did Kitty.
Political correctness became big. You had the black heroes for the black kids... but then, you had them for quite a while... since the sixties, at least... Then you had Shang Chi for the asian kids... along with several asian girls, too... Iron fist used the asian martial arts... and wolvie espoused the code of the Samurai... but they were western implants.

giant Sized X Men number one was designed to bring in a wide diversity of new superdoops... Russian.. German... Scottish...Japanese... Canadian.. AfroAmerican... well.... you get the picture...LOL...Stan and Roy were on an international kick... and a crusade to get more ladies in the picture... both in the books andin the office.

Religion was still pretty taboo.. it is often a volatile subject. Marvel was still playing the "appeal to everyone" kick by not stating ANY religious background even though we all KNEW Peter Parker was Jewish...LOL... after all... Stan was jewish... and stan created Pete with all his angst and guilt..classic jewish.
but when Chris finally gave Mags his holocaust backstory... and then kitty pryde her Mogan David pendant... well...the lid was off and ethnic kids could finally relate to a superdoop... good or bad... it didn't matter... good was better, of course... but among my jewish friends, Magneto was KING... cuz he was THEIRS! and when Claremont made him have a point to his mayhem... a sympathetic point... his fandom took off. women flocked to him... just as girls flocked to Storm... black or otherwise... girls liked her strength... she wasn not a wimp like most of the marvel women. You even got Northstar outting himself as a gay superdoop and all the gay readers went into throes of "Yes!!! One of US!!!" so believe me I understand the whole identity thing.

Kurt is, I guess, the same with Catholics...although I could get behind him being very religious... as he was in the movie... more easily than I could get behind him being a priest... simply because they did that too fast and too badly. but I DO understand..LOL... He's YOURS.. and heis a HERO to boot! Not to mention cute and fuzy and dashing and charming...geez... how many priests over the years have I known who fitted that.. well.... except the fuzzy part...LOL blue, too... blue just isn't your normal skin tone...unless you are maybe a MUTANT..
lol
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Postby Angelique » Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:36 pm

Thanks for understanding. (And also for making Kurt fuzzy!)
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Postby Paty » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:06 pm

:magneto
LOL... you are most welcome dear. I like him fuzzy, too...LOL I have been called a nut and a crank and either stupid or brilliant simply because I state my "take" on things and what I see and understand of the comics genre. I am probably most of the above at any given time... except stupid... I am never stupid. But nuts, yeah...on occasion... a crank. honey you have no idea how cranky I can get... and there are times I am absolutely brilliant...if I do say so myself... and I do.
I try NOT to bash people and groups... but sometimes their actions make me think harshly of them and I say so. Which a lot of people won't... and these people suffer in silence when a "hey! Am I seeing and understanding what i THINK I am seeing and understanding, here?" would bring questionable topics or observations into the light for discussion.
Unfortunately for many... sometines including myself... I have no such reticence...but then, I am not the only one who needs to occasionally explain themselves. Marvel has me beat by a ong shot!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA

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Postby Angelique » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:48 pm

LOL Or I'd laugh out loud if I could right now. :sick Anyway, I know what you're talking about. I tend to be a motormouth, unless I am really cranky, in which case, well, that's a different story. And fortunately that doesn't happen very often.
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Postby Paty » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:52 pm

:magneto
LOL... Yeah... people who know me best know when i get very very quiet they better watch out. I rant and rave and yell and scream... but when I get well and truely deadly , I get very quiet. You don't want me very quiet... I'm not a nice person when I get very very quiet...
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa

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Paty
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sketch of kurt and ororo

Postby Dark Bamf » Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:56 pm

Paty got a U2U from someone supposedly a moderator, telling her to get back on topic. The fact is, this is our forum and WE make the rules. You can talk about what you damn well please here, as long as yoyu don't start flame wars.

:bamf
'I'm in love, I'm in love with Atilla the Hun--
Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
--Atilla's Hunny
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Dark Bamf
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sketch of kurt and ororo

Postby Angelique » Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:17 am

Well, I'm just as guilty as Paty is. :blush
But yes, I'm interested in seeing that old sketch, too.
Meddle not with the heartstrings of fans, for we are powerful and hold your pursestrings.

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