Dave Cockrum's Star Trek art

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Dave Cockrum's Star Trek art

Postby Uncanny » Tue May 23, 2006 8:43 pm

Hello Paty and Dave,

I've been "spying" around here for a while and I finally decided to register.
I heard about your health problem so I hope that every day will help you feel better and better... just like your art did to me when I was reading your X-Men as a 11 years old kid. I still have the french versions of each issues with me and I bought, some years ago, the "Essential X-Men" trade paperback. I believe it was the first Essential book Marvel ever released, at least for me, and I was delighted to have the chance to look at your black and white art.

So what's the connection with Star Trek? Dave Cockrum's art of course !

I've never really been a fan of Star Trek but I recently bought the whole Marvel's run on eBay because of Dave. Just as soon as I learnt Dave had been illustrated it (No idea if it was ever published in France). So, here I was, drooling for weeks until I recieved my books. While I was unpacking the parcel I was already excited as I was expecting some great art long lost to me, something that would match Dave's X-Men run. I opened the first issue and... Klaus Janson screamed at me, how disappointing ! Just to be fair I have to say that I fondly remember Mr Janson inking over Frank Miller's Daredevil but his inks on Dave don't fit at all. Even more frustrating, deep under the inks, I could still feel Dave's art should be on pair with his best work ever but no matter how I looked at it, it appeared somehow ruined beause the Cockrum/Janson combination doesn't work here. As I was anxiously going through all the books for a change of inker, even worse, it's Dave's art that disappears after a few issues :-(

So, here am I, desperately looking for more with some crazy hope that mebbe...
mebbe Dave kept some xerox of his pencils? (Crossing my fingers).

Thanks for so many happy hours of reading Dave !
Uncanny.


[Edite le 26/5/06 par Uncanny]
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Dave Cockrum's Star Trek art

Postby Dark Bamf » Wed May 24, 2006 5:22 am

I ddon't have any pencil xeroxes of my Trek art, more's the pity. And I don't want to say anything against Klaus Janson's work, because I admire him tremendously--but having said that, I agree that he's not compatible with every penciler. He doesn't work well with me, nor John Buscema, either. At the time, I asked for a different inker, but the editor couldn't see that there was anything wrong and refused to change.

:bamf
'I'm in love, I'm in love with Atilla the Hun--
Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
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Dave Cockrum's Star Trek art

Postby Uncanny » Wed May 24, 2006 1:37 pm

Thanks for your reply Mr Cockrum.

About Mr Janson, no misunderstanding here, I like his style and appreciated his work on many occasions. The job he did on your Star Trek pages is as usual very competent but it just doesn't fit your style to my opinion. In fact, at times I don't necessarily dislike when the inker overcome the penciller if the result comes out better. Sometimes it can even become a necessity to improve some mediocre pencils.

I recently bought some of your inking over Mr Heck (Marvel Comics Presents #32 p29).
Although your own style clearly stands out to the point where It's easy to tell who's the inker, I feel that you still respected Mr Heck work and that the end results turned out pretty good !

Here's the page :
http://suprfile.com/get.php?id=12r3ver

As far as we are talking about inkers, I always had a big crush on the job Sam Grainger did on your first X-Men run. At that time your art has been inked perfectly by several fine artists like Frank Chiaramonte, Bob Mc Leod or Dan Green but, for my money, Sam Grainger's brushes work was gorgious !

In term of recognition he seems vastly underestimated. I didn't find his work very often because in France I only had access to a handful comics titles but I alway found his work perfectly suitable to most pencillers.

Give me whatever Cockrum/Grainger's art, I know I'll love it !


[Edite le 26/5/06 par Uncanny]
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Dave Cockrum's Star Trek art

Postby Dark Bamf » Thu May 25, 2006 3:44 am

I liked Sam Granger's work. It was strong and professional. Having said that, however, I have to note this one thing: I had a habit of penciling faces with hard edges and Dick Tracy-like chiseled chins. When I inked myself, I'd smooth those hard edges off. Sam emphasized those hard edges. If you ever saw any of Sam's solo work (he did a superhero rock group strip at Charlton called The Guardians) you'd see that was actually his style.

:bamf
'I'm in love, I'm in love with Atilla the Hun--
Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
--Atilla's Hunny
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Dave Cockrum's Star Trek art

Postby Uncanny » Thu May 25, 2006 11:03 am

After many careful comparisons and examinations I didn't notice any particularly hard edges.
Sure, Grainger brushes work is sharp but supple at the same time and it's probably the reason
why I appreciate his inking and why it doesn't bother me at all. I also like his use of large black
areas. Like I said : just gorgeous !
About the ciseled chin, damn, I never noticed before that most of your male characters have it !
But then again I'm a big fan of Mister Kirk Douglas or Robert Mitchum so it doesn't bother at all.

Mr Cockrum I have a question for you about one particular page. Something that bugged me for
many years now.
It's the last page you did on your first run (X-Men 107, last page), you can have a look here :
http://suprfile.com/src/1/133uaf2/xmen107lastpage.jpg

I had some mixed feelings about it. First, of course, this was your last effort on the serie but I always
felt something was definitely wrong with it. The art seems as if been done in a rush and looks like if it
wasn't your work. Inking was by Dan Green who was just filling in before Terry Austin started his run
with Byrne. But Dan did a very capable job until this particular page and I believe I see some trace of
your style in it.

So, was it a deadline problem both you and Mr Green faced or was the page edited/modified by someone
else for whatever reason ?

Do you remember anything or am I just seeing things here ?


[Edite le 25/5/06 par Uncanny]
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Dave Cockrum's Star Trek art

Postby Dark Bamf » Fri May 26, 2006 12:38 am

Frankly, I don't know what you're talking about here.

:bamf
'I'm in love, I'm in love with Atilla the Hun--
Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
--Atilla's Hunny
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Dave Cockrum's Star Trek art

Postby Uncanny » Fri May 26, 2006 12:49 am

Art is great on every other pages but a bit less on this particular one and I was thinking that mebbe there was a reason.

Besides yourself, who was your favorite inker ever?

Back to Star Trek :
From all your other works I can tell you like drawing science fiction comics so was it your decision to leave? Was it somehow related to the bad choice for inkers?

[Edite le 26/5/06 par Uncanny]
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Dave Cockrum's Star Trek art

Postby Dark Bamf » Sun May 28, 2006 7:14 am

My favorite inkers over me were Ricardo Villagran, Rudy Nebres, Bob Wyacek, Bob McLeod, and Joe Rubinstein. Favorite inkers who never inked me were Wally Wood and Al Williamson.

Well, it's not strictly true that Woody never inked me: one afternoon at his studio in Valley Stream, NY he persuaded me to pencil an installment of his newspaper strip CANNON. After he finished inking it, you'd never know I penciled it.

:bamf
'I'm in love, I'm in love with Atilla the Hun--
Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
--Atilla's Hunny
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Dave Cockrum's Star Trek art

Postby Uncanny » Sun May 28, 2006 12:21 pm

No inkers from your first X-Men run... OK, I'll stick to Sam Grainger anyway albeit I like most of the inkers you list except one. Actually it's not that I dislike him, I find his skill amazing but I believe he has a natural tendancy to totally cover the penciller : Rudy Nebres.

Well, you could say the same about Wallace Wood but what can I do, I love him no matter what !

I'm not surprised nobody could ever spot your Cannon pencilling when Mr Wood ink somebody it's destined to become Wood's work. Only a handful of stylists like Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko could still show under Mr Wood brush.

Byt the way, at times I find some Wood influence (mebbe even Gil kane) in your own style when you draw mechanical designs like this one : http://suprfile.com/src/1/s95vdw/Startrek08.jpg

I'm particularly talking about the background machine.
This is your only solo Star Trek job and luckily it's a cover ! More the pity that you didn't do everything on this title.
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