Dave's perspectives on X-Men

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Dark Bamf » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:48 pm

Personally, I've always considered Doc Doom to be Marvel's greatest villain. He even has a twisted sort of nobility (that's not to say it's safe to turn your back on him). That said, I still prefer Magneto--because I no longer see him as a villain. An adversary, absolutely. But he has a point of view I can see and understand, and though I don't agree with some of his methods, I do agree with most of his goals.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:25 pm

:magneto

Oh, bite your tongue, child... this corner of Nightscrawlers is Magnetoville!! We have shrines to him in every room of the house! Magneto Rules! Doom Drools! HE ain't the one getting his own movie...heh..heh...

LOLOL... you are talking to an old biddy who, when she was a teen, back in the Jurassic, used to ride her horse hell bent for leather about the hillsides of rural Maryland...DRESSED AS ZORRO!!! Both Dave an I have fun with our superdoops! And yes, indeedy, the old can learn from the young... but the young rarely listen to the old until they bash their noses against reality and only some of them have the grace to say... gee.. the old bat was right...
Now, go back to Newsarama and post that Paty Cockrum is a real, charming person, sane and witty... no... wait... that's Magneto too...sigh...
I just can't win...

I am real happy you seem to have enough sense to eschew Byrne...what happened? did he kick you off his board for something as piddly as liking another writer? I heard he recently did that to a poster who was one of his longtime fans. Tsk! ain't gonna win friends and influence people that way...LOL...but apparently, Byrne didn't learn that when he was young and whth him it is old dog,new trick and imposibility all in juxtaposition, or better yet, conjunction!

the problem with a lot of the boards these days, seems to be that they are infested with trolls that shout anyone off except the ones bowing to their particuar godling... Now, I cannot attest to this as I am legally blind and it is difficult for me to even see the damn screen...especially with the fine print some of these sites have... so I just don't go there. But Rivka does.. and she alerted me to the newsarama blog thing... "You've been blogged"she says to me...over the phone cuz she is in the frozen north and we are in the sunny south..."Blogged?" sez I, "What's blogged.?..it sounds faintly obscene...I might like it!" I am still young enough to remember some things...let's see... we used to hug 'em... and we used to kiss 'em.........and what was that other thing we used to do?

So when she told me what it was and that we would probably get an influx of trolls and Morrisonites gnashing their teeth because I really don't like their little tin god... for good reason, mind you...and that I should gird my amble loins for battle., I was intrigued.
"BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA !!" sez I. "I LOVE a good battle!" And I went off to sharpen my vampire, bloodsucking fangs, repoint my ears and don the famous Magneto helmet I keep in my room with a votive light in front of it!

And. VOILA !! here comes an unknown guest getting in our faces...just for expressing our considered opinions...gee...FFUN!

I think a lot of people on the net take themselves too seriously. While the favoritism and nepotism and bigotry I SAW at Marvel apparently remain extant there... I do speak to people who still go and work there, y'know... they love me...I love them...and the battle to get ethnic minorities and, especially women , treated right in this medium is ongoing, you still gotta have fun with the characters... cuz they are, in spite of Joey's assertation in his recent "cup of Joe" forum, what it is all about. Joey wants us to believe it is all about the creators and their feelings and their families...and I know that Joe is a good family man and probably tender hearted to a fault... I haven't met him, but I have seen him on TV and like his manner and style... but it IS NOT about the creators... it is about the CHARACTERS...who will be teaching lessons to the young long after the creators of yesterday and today and even tomorrow are dust and in their graves!

So, in spite of the FUN, you have to take the teaching potential of comics and movies and gaming seriously. I took it seriously waaaaa y before other educators did and used it in my classroom...much to the delight of the kids!

The characters are icons. They are things you use to tell stories, morality plays and such... and their core characterization must remain solid. they can change, but only as far as their core personalities let them. Morrison didn't adhere to this basic rule. He took characters who had been established long berfore he was out of short pants and warped them just to tittilate people who didn't want to read thirty years of good character development. If he wanted to do something wild and different with characters, why didn't he create his own? Well, he did, in a sense...he created one of the most vile and promising new supervillains to come down the pike in years! Cassandra Nova!!! Then, as a parting shot, he tried to do a Claremont with her and in the "future" arc tried to make her palatable and an accepted member of the group without doing the work of showing her changing... LAZY...LAZY...LAZY and none of us buy it for a minute.
For the whole second half of his run on New X Men, Morrison went more and more off the wall and shot himself in the foot more and more often because he simply didn't care what others had done with the characters...he only want ed to do what he wanted to do ... so he did it. And that is four year old, stamp your foot and pout spoiled child behavior. these weren't his privately owned characters todo that to and it was irresponsible and junenile in the extreme. This is not only irresponsible and lazy, it is reprehensible and disrespectful to other writers who have come before. His followers rail at any change to his drivel, but don't realize that he did wholesale to other, more proficient and established writers and creators, what he accuses others of doing to him. He was not unlike an unmannerly and rude child in a fine china shoppe, throwing priceless characters hither and yon ...simply because he COULD... and there was no mature editorial hand there to stop him. I have been told ...by people who were there... that when the Planet X pages came in THEY KNEW they were hot potatoes and the general feeling was "I don't wanna touch these with a ten foot pole" and they just shoved them along and what should never have gotten printed... and they KNEW theat arc should never see print because it was over the top... DID get printed cuz everyone was too chicken shit to stop it or even voice what seasoned staffers knew..."Uh..I don't think we ought. to PRINT this..." to someone with a little sense of the business. Later on, of course, they realized, because of the outcry, that they fucked up royally...and tried to salvage some of it ...and the only thing worth salvaging was the evilness of the major villain... Cassandra Nova...Morrison's one contribution to the ongoing saga aof the X Men....their friends and enemies... and, in Magneto's case, their considered and often right ADVERSARIES! Mags is not so much the villain that Stan originallymade him as an adversary, who, once you know his backstory, makes more sense than Xavier does at times. It is just his methods that we call into question. His conclusions that humans can be vile beyond belief to those they think are 'different" from themselves and you simplydo not bargain with them from anything but a position of power is correct. It just IS! In a utopian society such as the one Xavier wants...which is a goal worth striving toward... Magneto's views might not apply... but in the real world of today.. they apply in spades! The majority of mankind has not evolved past the "Hulk smash" method of dealing with things. We are trying, yes... but we got a long way to go and, I velieve, a very short time to get there.

In any event... welcome to the board. I do tend to go on at length...no...really, I do... and you always know where I stand. I am opinionated and learned and my eyes don't work so well any more...but there is nothing wrong with my mind...and I speak it with verve and conviction.

This annoys some people...who wish I would dry up and blow away...literally... well poop on them..may their bowels misbehave...may the toilets overflow and may the plumbers be on strike!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA

see? FUN!
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:magneto
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Angelique » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:36 pm

I also think Doom's a great villain because it seems most of the time, he actually thinks he's good. It's also what I like about Magneto. I mean, who doesn't think ending war, world hunger, or oppression is a good thing?

What makes Doom (and yes, in my eyes, Mags) a villain is what lies behind the talk of good intentions as well as the methods used to acheive these goals.

And huzzah for civil disagreement!

It takes a lot to get me into full on rant mode. I usually resort to medieval literary insults before I get really quiet, and then really mad. But I honestly do think Grendel is a cute name.
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:36 pm

:magneto

Hmmm... isn't there a comic book character named Grendel? I have a visual floating around in my head... but i never read the Grendel book...was he a troll, too?

LOL...I am probably defaming some beloved character...Oh, well, us crazy villainous types gotta do something to have fun...

LOL
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:magneto
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:03 pm

:magneto

Actusally, that was a discussion I had with Claremont once. He was wanting to do something with Mags, but not sure what. this was, I believe, during Dave's first run on the book, when we talked to Chris ofen.
It was my opinion that no "villain" thinks of himself as a "villain". They all have reasons for doing what they are doing. Now, up to that time we had had precious little input on WHY Magneto acted the way he did. OK... in reality, Stan just didn't develop him beyond a maniacial nutball to use as a foil for the kids. and Stan has said publically that he regrets that and has lauded Chris for what Chris did do with the character. But Stan had used him enough that something HAD to be there... so WHAT WAS IT?

What Claremont did was brilliant. He took stuff that was already in canon, built on it, used it to change the character logically. He took the starting point of Magneto being de aged into infancy. After that, Mags disappeared for a long time. So what happened between his deaging and his reaging? the thing that made him change his behavior patterns. Moira tinkered with his genetic structure, removed the blockage that was causing his powers to back up and drive him nutsy every time he used them...and basically opened the floodgates of his power while allowing him to think clearly. With the history Chris gave Mags of being a Holocaust survivor, and wanting a homeland for mutants where they would be safe... which had also already been established...the whole backstory fell into perfect order. It wasn't until Harras and the attempt to take away this brilliant backstory, and make him a Gypsy... which some people will still not let go of as false...that we get a conflict of his motivations and his actions. What happened before the deaging/reaging thing was gone. The really nutsy Magneto was being supplanted by the good man with a problem that had been underneath all along. Remember, that in the early issues, he didn't kill anyone... even though he COULD have. OK.. that was the Code and the writing of the day... but he still DIDN'T kill anyone. in the existing canon.. so his basic underlying honor was intact... well except for the citizens he did kill when his power manifested the first time...after the death of his beloved daughter, Anya... but that we can forgive him for... at least I can. Other heroes have done terrible things when their power first manifested, and been forgiven for it, why not Mags? ...he was provoked. Some asswipes kept me from rescuing my child, I would kill them, too... believe it! then in Uncanny 150, some militaristic nuts throw a NUCLEAR device at him for telling the world to lay down their weapons and act like grownups...Yeah... sink the freakin' sub! Teach the asswipes you mean business. You go into a sub you take the risk that you can be sunk... it ain't a ride at Dinsey World. You pays your money and takes your chances in the armed services of ANY country. If Unka had sunk that sub for lobbing a NUCLEAR device at the US, no one would have said anything... so why is it so awful when Mags did it?

Anyway... Chris built the character logically ...and his complexity generated a inrush of female readers who loved the character and avidly followed the X books waiting for Chris to drop more goodies from the Magneto table on them. Fanfic abounded! Stuff the readers wanted to see happen...and they knew they never would so they wrote it out in fanfic... some of it VERY good stuff, indeed. Better than what is in the books from the boyos these days, that's for sure...

those that we percieve as villains usually have their own agenda. If it is self serving and egocentric, they are truely villainous. If it is not, and has a point beyond self service, greed or egocentricity, then we need to examine what they are saying... because they , while not espousing OUR take on the world, may have valid points that we cannot relate to but someone else can. There is no ONE WAY for everybody... that is a given. Unless the human race is invaded by buggies from outer space and it is US or THEM... humanity will probably never form a worldview. Unless our survival as a species is threatened, the various cultures will never come completely together as humans rather than as either a racial, ethnic or other diverse grouping. they just won't. Traditions and behavioral codes have developed over the centruries and millenia differently and traditionalists in those societies will resist change because it frightens them. Fear is the great motivator in the human ape.

Hitler killed millions of Jews... he thought he was doing the right thing...to himself, his followers and a lot of others, he was not the conssummate villain. To the Jews, Gypsies , gays, and other s he was the devil incarnate. But he needed someone to blame Germany's economic woes on, someone whose moneys he could confiscate. This was a ploy used by people throughout history with a lot of success. Philip the 4th of France did the same thing with the Templars, at once getting rid of powerful entities in his kingdom and enriching himself with their moneys, as well as wiping out, in one fell swoop, the tremendous monetary debt he was into them for.
But were either of these guys RIGHT to do what they did? Absolutely not. Because their motives and methods were self serving and barbaric and inhumane, they are viewed by history as villains. Although there are still some who view them as heroes...go figure...The nazi party is alive and flourishing in America and lots of fallen heroes of WWII ore probably rolling in their graves.

And, in spite of denials, we can see that it is still extant in the attacks on the Jewish heritage Claremont gave Magneto. They continue... they have continued since Harras forced Claremont off the books and Marvel's economic decline began...and they still rage today... believe it.

Magneto's innocence in House of M was established... In Son of M, Luna looked into his soul and told us that he "wasn't a BAD man... he was a SAD man..." So where will the boyos take him now? Back to villainy? totally illogical and a waste of a complex, excellent character a good writer could run with... to the economic enricchment of Marvel! Magneto is extremely popular as a complex character.

If Joey is reading this, pay attention,here kid! The people trying to change Magneto's history may try to introduce the old BYRNE plot of making everything a mental implant. byhowm? Xavier? the historcal GOOD guy of the X books??? YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT CAN OF WORMS??? iT WILLMAKE PLANET X LOOK LIKE IT IS WELL WRITTEN... WHICH IT IS NOT. OK...so what about all of the historical scenes we have seen with Mags and other people interacting BEFORE Xavier ever met Mags in Israel ... in Uncanny 161 ???!!! Ya gonna ignore that too? Maybe you could if the books weren't being reprinted for anyone today to read and understand the forty years of canon Chris and others laid down. But the books keep being reprinted... you cannot DENY the CANON!

Now, Joey has promised that this revision or wiping out of Magneto's history and ethnic identity will NOT happen. Logically it shouldn't. But I do not count on anything logical happening at Marvel these days... they have done so many illogical things that the mind boggles and one looks askance at promises which are continually broken...with an "oh, well...get used to it..."

From the brouhaha with Magneto's ethnic backhistory, to the continued discrimination against minorities and women in the business at large and Marvel in particular...I understand I am not the only one railing at the industry about discrimination...especially against women... the boyos at Marvel better watch their steps... cuz the Angel of Death is watching...

Not me... although I am watching too... I am not the Angel of Death...especially economic death, which Marvelflirts with all the time as a publishing entity...the movies are another matter and are keeping the Marvel venue afloat, for sure... God help Marvel if Avi Arad abscounds further than he already has and they let lesser men call the shots on the movies...does the phrase "down in Flames" mean anything to ya? ... except for my column over at Scream if You Want It..of course...heheheheheeee... I gotta get back to writing that thing...

I just am a ...as a lot of people like to think.. cracy ol' broad. Yeah...right.. but I am watching, too, Joey. Keep your promises. Be the man I think you can be... and you should be. when it comes down to brass tacks, the buck DOES stop with you, buddy...

Paty
:magneto

[Edited on 21-9-0606 by Paty]
Magneto Rules!
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:07 pm

:magneto
Hey... why didn't I get my little Magneto icons?in the former post?? I typed it in right...it always worked before...

Paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Dark Bamf » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:23 pm

The original Grendel was a character in the epic poem 'Beowulf'. But I think there was a comic by that name. I never read it, tthough.

I don't know that Doom thinks of himself as 'good'. He just wants what he wants and woe to anybody who stands in his way. He's amoral. But he allows himself the delusion that he's justified in his actions.

That's what comes from living in a tin can.

Personally, I think Doomsie needs to get laid. Maybe we should introduce him to Iron Maiden from T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents. :LOL

:bamf
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Atilla the Hun, Atilla the Hun.
He may pillage your village and kill everyone
but I still love Atilla the Hun.'
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:13 pm

:magneto
better hand them a can opener or two... the mind boggles at tin can love...or, for that matter, sex...LOL

I dunno... Doomsie never did it for me like he did it for Alizar Temmpleton...the Dr Doom Lady of early Marvel fame...LOL... No lie... this lady was as nuts about Doomsie as I am about Magneto... with what I consider less reason. No silvery white hair... no yummy studmuffin bod...we're talking comics here...not movies!!! Ian McKellan is not a studmuffin! ... not tome anyway...I know gay guys who adore him... but I digress... Claremont made Mags very sympathetic, if still a bit nusty...but Doom was always an arrogant bastard...sorta like a tin coated Byrne... so I never saw the appeal he had for his fans.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess... The idea of parking Doomsie's iron boots under one's bed is daunting in the extreme, though... while the idea of purple boots under the bed is luscious...heh heh...OK...OK...I like purple and red...they are exotic and erotic colors for a bedroom...sigh...

Ok... sloooorb.... that's enough sex for one day...
heheheheheheheee
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:magneto
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Angelique » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:33 pm

I know I called {Saint Kurt} "Beowulf" after she busted a bunch of trolls in chat.


{edited out real name for privacy and context. :) --SK}

[Edited on 21/9/06 by Saint Kurt]
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:14 am

:magneto

Yeah...I remember a comic called Grendel... don't know if it had anything to do withthe classical figure, though as I never picked it up... but i have vague memory of visuals of the character floating around in the recesses of what passes for my mind...Of course, classical figures do get changed when they enter the world of superdoops...

Look at thor...he started out as Thor Redbeard in classical norse Mythology... and segued into a blond, clean shaven guy with bllue polka dots on his chest and a truely magnificent red cape, when he appeared in the books at Marvel... the cape was about seventy two yards of red...LOL ... very impressive. Fairly good lip service to the rest of the mythos, dressing everyone in modernized superdoop versions of supposed warrior dress. the Valkyerie were amazing too... bullet boobs and pigtails... ya gotta wonder what female would wear a costume like that...although it beats Red Sonja's by a mile and a half! That much flesh is askin' to be sliced and diced...but, as usual, boys are writing and drawing these things, soooooo...
I don't much mind Thor's costume... it was colorful and tried to update to superhero style a supposed warrior's garb of the early nordic period...whether that was accurate or not is anybody's guess, but it was a spiffy costume. I was a bit put off by thor as the Frog Prince, though... Of course, girl's costumes are a whole other thread...

LOL
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:magneto
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Unknown » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:44 am

Originally posted by Paty
:magneto

Oh, bite your tongue, child... this corner of Nightscrawlers is Magnetoville!! We have shrines to him in every room of the house! Magneto Rules! Doom Drools! HE ain't the one getting his own movie...heh..heh...

LOLOL... you are talking to an old biddy who, when she was a teen, back in the Jurassic, used to ride her horse hell bent for leather about the hillsides of rural Maryland...DRESSED AS ZORRO!!! Both Dave an I have fun with our superdoops! And yes, indeedy, the old can learn from the young... but the young rarely listen to the old until they bash their noses against reality and only some of them have the grace to say... gee.. the old bat was right...
Now, go back to Newsarama and post that Paty Cockrum is a real, charming person, sane and witty... no... wait... that's Magneto too...sigh...
I just can't win...

I am real happy you seem to have enough sense to eschew Byrne...what happened? did he kick you off his board for something as piddly as liking another writer? I heard he recently did that to a poster who was one of his longtime fans. Tsk! ain't gonna win friends and influence people that way...LOL...but apparently, Byrne didn't learn that when he was young and whth him it is old dog,new trick and imposibility all in juxtaposition, or better yet, conjunction!

the problem with a lot of the boards these days, seems to be that they are infested with trolls that shout anyone off except the ones bowing to their particuar godling... Now, I cannot attest to this as I am legally blind and it is difficult for me to even see the damn screen...especially with the fine print some of these sites have... so I just don't go there. But Rivka does.. and she alerted me to the newsarama blog thing... "You've been blogged"she says to me...over the phone cuz she is in the frozen north and we are in the sunny south..."Blogged?" sez I, "What's blogged.?..it sounds faintly obscene...I might like it!" I am still young enough to remember some things...let's see... we used to hug 'em... and we used to kiss 'em.........and what was that other thing we used to do?

So when she told me what it was and that we would probably get an influx of trolls and Morrisonites gnashing their teeth because I really don't like their little tin god... for good reason, mind you...and that I should gird my amble loins for battle., I was intrigued.
"BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA !!" sez I. "I LOVE a good battle!" And I went off to sharpen my vampire, bloodsucking fangs, repoint my ears and don the famous Magneto helmet I keep in my room with a votive light in front of it!

And. VOILA !! here comes an unknown guest getting in our faces...just for expressing our considered opinions...gee...FFUN!

I think a lot of people on the net take themselves too seriously. While the favoritism and nepotism and bigotry I SAW at Marvel apparently remain extant there... I do speak to people who still go and work there, y'know... they love me...I love them...and the battle to get ethnic minorities and, especially women , treated right in this medium is ongoing, you still gotta have fun with the characters... cuz they are, in spite of Joey's assertation in his recent "cup of Joe" forum, what it is all about. Joey wants us to believe it is all about the creators and their feelings and their families...and I know that Joe is a good family man and probably tender hearted to a fault... I haven't met him, but I have seen him on TV and like his manner and style... but it IS NOT about the creators... it is about the CHARACTERS...who will be teaching lessons to the young long after the creators of yesterday and today and even tomorrow are dust and in their graves!

So, in spite of the FUN, you have to take the teaching potential of comics and movies and gaming seriously. I took it seriously waaaaa y before other educators did and used it in my classroom...much to the delight of the kids!

The characters are icons. They are things you use to tell stories, morality plays and such... and their core characterization must remain solid. they can change, but only as far as their core personalities let them
The majority of mankind has not evolved past the "Hulk smash" method of dealing with things. We are trying, yes... but we got a long way to go and, I velieve, a very short time to get there.

In any event... welcome to the board. I do tend to go on at length...no...really, I do... and you always know where I stand. I am opinionated and learned and my eyes don't work so well any more...but there is nothing wrong with my mind...and I speak it with verve and conviction.

This annoys some people...who wish I would dry up and blow away...literally... well poop on and may the plumbers be on strike!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA

see? FUN!
Paty
:magneto


Yes, I agree with basically what I quoted. The fact is, I thought you were the Internet troll...of course, now I think of you as the nice lady who should be treated with utmost respect. :-) Thank you very much for proving me more or less wrong

As for Byrne...its not his personality (which is annoying), its how he sort of did a lot of damage to certain characters. Like Donna Troy, for example, making her backstory even more confusing. And there's some people who don't like what he did with the Sandman. Like you said, people who IRREVERSABLY ruin characters really don't deserve respect...then again, nothing is irreversable in comic books. And since Magneto is basically back to something like normal...I have to turn to redeeming Wanda. (Mind-controlling bacteria! Mark my words).

Personally, I don't like pretending stories never happened (unless there's an in-story reason for it), but I'll all up for ruining characters created by people that ruined characters...not Cassandra Nova though. A female X villian that dosen't wear provocative clothing! HUZZAH!

And last but not least...Doom only wins because the Doom song sounds better than the Magneto Song.
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:47 am

:magneto

Magneto song? Doom song? there's a Magneto song??? where are these songs? We filk songs over on the filk thread, but this is basically just bastardizing existing songs...you know...
In the X Men...
fine Magneto's still my boy...
In the X Men...
He's my willing bedtime toy...
In the x Men...
He will scream and cry for joy...
In the X Men...
In the X Men...

that sort of thing...LOL...Oh, crap... this is awful...Imust be having one of those rare hormone surges again...sigh...
so what is this thing about a Magneto song vs a Doomsie song??? Geez...no one tells me ANYTHING!!!

Me? an internet troll? Hey the only trolling I do is off the end of a bass boat...
I thought trolls wouldn't let anybody say anything but what they wanted to hear... I mean ... I have an opinion, a learned and considered one backed up with a relativelyhigh intellect and long years of observation and extrapolating what is reallyhappening from clues that are there for anyone to see. sometimes I am off on details...but most of the time I think I am bang on with most of myobservations. Of course, there are a lot of people who don't want to hear my opinions... but they are MY opinions...they can disregard them and call me a crazy old faart and all that if they want to... I still have the same right to post my opinions as they do to post theirs.
The old addage... I may dot agree with what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it... is a maxim with me. differences of opinion breed healthy disussion and as long as people don't take things personally, the exchange of ideas can be exhilerating. Of course, I have unhappily found that a lot of youn people equate a difference of opinion with an attack on them personally... and this is unfortunate.

Byrne has publicly stated in the past that "If I haven't DONE it, it HASN'T been done." which is the veriest crap. He went on to redo the superman mythos ... to it's detriment. He has shitted on characters that were extant before he was even a twinkle in his mamma's eye... and that is sheer arrogance... in my opinion. He was the only person who could walk into the marvel of yore and within fifteen minutes have most of the staff ready to strangle him with their bare hands. He probably doesn't know it, but i saved his life once by diverting a rage crazed staffer from actually attacking him.
It would have been funny if it wasn't so scary. Marvel back then was pretty loose and laid back. Yeah, we had interoffice politics and some backstabbing and crap like that, but Byrne, twice a year visits to the offices were ...um... shall we say... interesting? He hankfully didn't stay long...usually... but within the time he was thee, he usually managed to piss off virtually everyone there... and it was with relief and great celebration that we saw him out the door and we could count on another six months or so to reclaim our equilibrium.
byrne is not creative. He cannot create well... but he can take what others have created and put his own warped spin on it and say it is better than the original...which it is not, by and large. He is the only artist I ever complained to Stan about cuz i simply could not use his representations of the FF in the Merchandising... they were that awful. You cannot hurt ben grimm and the torch, but Mr. Fantastic looked like he was dying of cancer and the Invisible girl looked like a blow up doll with all the proper orifices.... which all his women did until a fangirl married him and taught him there were really bones in girls arms and legs. He still draws all womenn's faces alike... just changes the hair style and color. PTUI!

Byrne was mostly a nonentity to me...I ignored him... and only recently have I had to even waste time thinking about him... ever since I banned his contribution to the Tribute book because he mouthed off on his own board... which I guess he thought was safe... and someone sent me the link where he complimented Dave in one breath and badmouthed him in another with thinly veiled insults... something i am told he has done regularly with otherrs throughtout the last twenty or thirty years. Well, others may have forgotten and forgiven him his hubris, but I do not put up with shit like that and especially not when aimed at Dave... who at the time was literally dying... and we didn't even know if he would survive to SEE the tribute book...he was THAT ill. so Byrne got on my shit list...as if his depiction years agoof me as a Rog 2000 type robotess called PATY69 hadn't already teed me off with him. He didn't even KNOW me when he drew that slimy piece of shit...so I do not forget and only God forgives... and I don't mean the great God, Byrne, either. He only THINKS he is God... when what he really is, is god-awful!

OK... enough of Byrne...who is really a nonentity for me...except I hope he never gets a foot back in Marvel as the first character he will want to gut and warp outta sight is Claremont's Magneto... for sure! He has this onvelievable jealousy of Chris...and he has not ceased to badmouth him for the past thirty years. He must have really hated that Chris took the X books to such heights WITHOUT his godlike input.

I think the only reason more of Morrison's shit hasn't been retconned is that no one likes pretending something didn't happen if it is in canon... which is why you gotta be reallllll careful what youput into canon... something the so called editors at Marvel need to think about. But of all the shit Morrison dumped on Marvel, there was one gem.... and yes, that was Cassandra Nova. Not the stupidity of a friendly CN of the future arc, but the vile, evil entity we hated in the X books when she was in full bloom. Truely a worthy addition to the X mythos... everything else needs to be undone or retconned...especially the degeneration of the major characters like Scott, Jean and Magneto. Fortunately, they have already debunked the idea that that magneto was the real one...theyhad to...it was so badly written...no idea of what the character could do with his powers...even under mindwarp... so it was easy to debunk the idea that it WAS Magneto. But other characters he shitted on aren't as easilly fixed... so some of the shit still clings to the X mythos... hopefully not for much longer.

In any event...yes, CN is a great villainess...one who should be used with care. You don't want to overuse a character of this magnitude... but i bet the boyos, who haven't a creative bone in their bodies will overuse her to death! We'll see. Just so they leave magneto alone and don't warp him into eeeeeevil Magneto again. OK...he's not a "good guy"... we don't want that... his adversarial role is right were he truely belongs...another opinion...another possible way toresolve the mutant problem... youneed alternative opinions to stay fresh and not stagnate in your storytelling. villains fill part of this bill... but not all of it...you need reasonable adversaries you cannot explain away with ..."they are eeeevil and bad..." cuz most questions are not that clear cut... and the books are a teaching medium for problem solving in the real world.

a small aside, here... I went over to Newsarama to the infamous Paty Cockrum thread...and BWAHAHAHAHAAAAed them...and I think Iscared everybody off...is that possible, Matthew? I mean... gee whiz!!!
LOL

Paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
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135 W 50th Street
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Angelique » Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:21 am

Paul McCartney and Wings did a song called "Magneto and Titanium Man."
Meddle not with the heartstrings of fans, for we are powerful and hold your pursestrings.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:14 am

:magneto
Hmmmm...OUR Magneto? the main man??? Hisself?
Or just some imposter??? Heh... never heard of it! what are the words to this thingie? anyone know? McCartney, huh?
OK... what about Doomsie? Hey Matt... is that the Magneto song? What about the Doomsie song?
Gee...cool...

Paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:26 am

:magneto

OK... Googled ite McCartney song... not impressed with the lyrics... that's for sure! Doomsie's got to be better than that! that was awful...gimme some good Darth Vader music, here...sheesh!

Paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Angelique » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:00 pm

I don't know. I might like that song better if I pass all my exams! ;)
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Postby Paty » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:08 pm

:magneto


Tomorrow...tomorrow...exams are tomorrow...it's only a day away!!!

LOL
paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
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Postby Paty » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:16 pm

:magneto

Y'know... I went back to the blog thingie on Newsarama... saw that, except for Valerie posting, the room was empty. Gee...maybe i did scare them off... I posted a note to that effect and sorta asked where everybody was... but guess what... the bloggers deleted it and when i posted a comment to ask why, I got this page saying I was not AUTHORIZED to post...

ok... NOW... LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. tHEY QUOTED ME...FROM THIS FORUM ... WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.!!! they fucking BLOGGED me!!! and I don't have the AUTHORIZATION to post a comment in my own fraaaakin' BLOG???

What the hell kind of way to run a blog is THAT???
What? Blogging is only a ruse to allow people to talk about youbehind your badk???then run away whtn they find out you are THERE...reading their comments???

What kid of crap is this??? Anyone know anything about if there are any rules governing blogging cuz, quite frankly, I think there should be!

Paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Angelique » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:21 pm

I guess it's a case of whoever owns the blog makes the rules. :shrug

But I just posted asking about it. :eeevil

[Edited on 22/9/0606 by Angelique]
Meddle not with the heartstrings of fans, for we are powerful and hold your pursestrings.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:46 pm

:magneto
thank you, dear... since the BLOGGED obviously doesn't have a voice there...

LOL
Paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
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Postby kevinmelrose » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:57 pm

Hi, Paty:

It looks as if something in one of your comments tripped the spam filter, so the program removed your posts and flagged your IP address.

We're trying to figure out the source of the problem, and how to retrieve your remarks.

Sorry for the inconvenience/confusion (and thanks to Valerie for pointing out the situation).

Kevin Melrose
Blog@Newsarama

EDITED TO ADD: If you email J.K. Parkin at jkparkin@yahoo.com with the email address under which you posted, we can at least get you unflagged until our tech person can get on the case of the missing comments.

[Edited on 22/9/06 by kevinmelrose]
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Update!

Postby kevinmelrose » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:33 pm

We've so far managed to retrieve one of Paty's comments. On the upside, she should be "authorized" to post once more.

The rest of the comment-retrieval may have to wait until our tech person returns later this weekend.

Again, sorry for the inconvenience and confusion.

Regards,
Kevin Melrose
Blog@Newsarama

[Edited on 22/9/06 by kevinmelrose]
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:08 pm

:magneto

Thanks, Kevin...I dropped a letter to the tech support off the homepage so they probably have my email addy by now... or will when tech support reports back in...LOL

You don't have to retrieve my posts... they were just me being my own irrepressable self. Having gone back into the site after about a day and a half, and not seeing any of the posters back...little chickenshits... LOL... I posted this post, which is probably what tripped your spammeter...it probably doesn't like broadway shows being quoted...

HELLLLLOOOOO........................................................................hellllloooohelllloooo

Hey Val... there's an echo inhere! did I really scare them all off? Gee...
Is anybody there? Does Anybody care? Does anybody see what I see?
I see fireworks, I see the passion and pomp and parade...I hear the bells ringing out...I hear the cannon roar...I see Americans, all Americans, free forevermore!

ref: 1776..... good musical...look it up

that was it. It appeared for a few moments and then was gone. What? your spam blocker doesn't like broadway musicals? Every time I go into a place where there should be people and there are none, I burst into that song...sans orchestration, of course... and Dave can vouch for that! LOL

It just seemed weird that i could post and then I couldn't and then the posts I did make were deleted... Ya gotta fix that, kiddo... some of us are garroulous and erudite and will quote from beloved movies, plays and books... and if this happens to people not as laid back as we are, it could be a problem for ya!

Anyway...might i suggest that you flag my magnetorampant@yahoo.com addy with a notation to "let this person say anything she wants...it willraise our site ratings..." or some such...BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA.... no,huh? Oh, well... it was worth a try...

Heh heh...
Paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:46 pm

:magneto

sigh...I have been called crazy, insane, charming, witty, and other unmentionable things... now...SPAM!

Oh, the pain! at least I haven't been named a troll...tet...I am not holding my breath, however... some folk donnn't like my viewpoints...LOL

I did get a communication from Mr. Parkin, basically explaining what you just said, Kevin... and I tild him bacically what I told you in the previous post...LOL...
so I guess all is well that ends well... ya gotta fine tune that spammblocker, kiddo... at least the eds should be able to review a post to see if it is indeed, spam...

Gee... SPAM... I'm relegated to SPAM... my life as I know it flashes before my eyes... Packing floor droppings...sigh... Oh, the shame of it all...

LOL
paty
:magneto
Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
:magneto
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Angelique » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:30 am

Ha! Guess who's spam now! :eeevil
Meddle not with the heartstrings of fans, for we are powerful and hold your pursestrings.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6 ... &ref=share

www.heroesfallenstudiosinc.webs.com

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