Dave's perspectives on X-Men

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:43 am

:magneto

sob... Oh, the shame... the ignomany! sigh... I shall endure this... at least some people like me grilled...or so I understand...
OOg...grilled SPAM ...the mind boggles...the stomach turns...
Damn... we are SOOOO off topic here, aren't we...?
Sorry about that...

LOL
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby SamKarns » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:27 pm

By the way, the idea that the Holocaust could be caused by sentient bacteria rather than by hateful humans strikes me as a bit anti-Semitic.
****
It IS anti-semitic and how dare this asshole to write such a disgusting and blatant story. How dare some of the brainless to defend Morrison's shitty rendition of the X-Men.
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby SamKarns » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:33 pm

LOLOL... you are talking to an old biddy who, when she was a teen, back in the Jurassic, used to ride her horse hell bent for leather about the hillsides of rural Maryland...DRESSED AS ZORRO!!!
****
SO IT WAS YOU WHO WAS THE BLACK WHIP!
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby SamKarns » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:49 pm

ya gotta wonder what female would wear a costume like that...although it beats Red Sonja's by a mile and a half! That much flesh is askin' to be sliced and diced...
****
Hey! I love Red Sonja, Paty, leave Red Sonja out of this. Is it that time to say, "You're insulting me!" and ban you? LOL! Because I'm Gawd--BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:12 pm

Yes! and I had a fighting Legion, too!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
down in flames, Don DelOro!!!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
No,you're not... John Byrne is God and he will tell you so...if only in his actions and snotty demeanor.

red Sonja, as Barry winsor smith first drew her in his very illustrative comic, Conan, wore a full body armor chain mail shirt and enough covering to be a viable warrior. Skimpy, but Viable, considering Conan's lack of armor himself... But the chain mail coin bra andd crotch hankie is, I am sorry ... right out. Sexist eye candy is all it is. She is supposed to be a warrior and dresses to entic males and then gets belligerant when they try to take her up on her "fuck me" costume??? No... C'mon... I am sorry... no woman is stupid enough to do that. It is a male fantasy. this is what I am talking about in regard to female input if males cannot make their fantasies at least marginally reasonable. some of the costumes extant in the ooks these days belong in Hustler!!! Nowhere else... least of all on a serious superheroine. It's just wrong. How would you guys like it if women put out comics whth males walking around in codpiesces for costumes? And it was the only thing to read and you were being told "get used to it" and "what's your problem?"
While the comics started out as stuff for little pre teen boys to read and get off on...mostly because of rthe adventure stories...the sex and violence has happened since the Code died....there ARE female readers. And there would be a lot more of them if women were portrayed with even a modicum of respect and decendy. Not every girl out there is either a virgin, mother or slut...and that's about it for personification in the comics any more. Once in a while you will get a writer ... and sometimes an artist... who likes strong women and writs and draws them with respect and thoughtfulness as tohow they might think...sometimes they used to even ask their women friends and family for input. I don't see much of that today...and I really don't see much of it in the Frank Thorne/John Buscema costume of Red Sonja. Sexy, maybe... but functional? You gotta be kiddin' ... it is pure, unadulterated sexism.
LOL
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:magneto

[Edited on 24-9-2006 by Dark Bamf]

[Edited on 24-9-2006 by Dark Bamf]
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby SamKarns » Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:45 am

No,you're not... John Byrne is God and he will tell you so...if only in his actions and snotty demeanor.
****
You're going to get me in BIG TROUBLE on the Byrne Boards. If JB or some of the good members of the JBF is reading it was a joke.
++++

Red Sonja
****
Paty, the coin, chain mail bra and panties were around during the code as a matter of fact while you wee still working at Marvel. Leave Red Sonja alone--she's the exception. I was hoping Brigette Neilson wore her comic counterparts attire. She had a great body.

I know I'm drifting, but what about She-Hulk. You don't think she, of all heroines, should be clad with her bra and panties? Marvel hasn't gone that route with her but I think she of all Marvel characters should. It never made sense Jen would wear button shirts and jeans and when she hulks out it becomes a white shredded medical scrub.

I am aware she has Reed Richards specially made outfits but I think it's... safe. Too safe.

Was it ever weird for you to see Magneto running the X-Men? I don't think it his make up. Do you recall why he stepped in as leader?
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Postby Dark Bamf » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:54 pm

Xavier had to go across the galaxy to help Lilandra recover her empire and he asked Magneto to take charge of the school--which in this instance mainly meant the kids (the New Mutants). I wanna tell you, it was a hoot watching the kids dial up Magneto's frustration level.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:47 am

:magneto

sure... Xavier was dying of something...forget what... but Lilandra and the shi'ar came to take him away to be healed on their homeworld... and he had to leave the school... not knowing when or if he was coming back. Now, why he didn't leave it in the hands of his senior X people ...like Storm, Cyke or Hank or Jean, I will never know... some of them were off doing other things, perhaps...like Scott may have been up north with Madelyne at that point and Jean may not have been in the picture... but there were senior X people about...
But, instead, he asks his old foe... MAGNETO??? Go figure...
Personally, I think he was setting Mags up for another failure... and that is reprehensible... but other times when the kids fought Mags, he told them after the fray, that they were in no danger ... he controlled erything.
but he had had enough brushes with being disabled or sick or out of commission to have had a backup staff in place for just such an emergency...the number of students at the school suggests at least a housekeeping staff. when it was only four kids, sure, it was like a family...but when he branched out into the New Mutants, there had to be housekeeping, as well as teaching staff... any of which s could have taken over before an emeny... one would think...
But NooooOOOOoooooo...has to be Mags. And the whole debacle was rather funny in places... with Mags going nutsy fagan with rebellious teens that werenn't being mind controlled into tame, respectful quiet children... with good manners. These kids ran poor ol' Mags ragged and nearly caused him to climb into a bottle to keep his sanity. He rose to the occasion, however and actually won their respect and fondness, if not love... and I think that was more honest than the blank eyed "Oh, Professor, you're so wonderful..." that the X kids spouted all the time. I still say those kids were constantly being subliminally nudged into pablum...by Xavier.
but Mags did win the kid's trust, even though they started out hating and not trusting him. when he didn't think he could properly guide them, he turned them over to Emma... big mistake there... and eventually they all died, didn't they?... well... a good precentage died, I believe... starting with doug Ramsey... That is all in the old volume of the New Mutants... circa the eighties... when Claremont was doing half a dozen spinoff X books every month and making Marvel a fortune by keeping them all in the top ten!

She Hulk... I haven't seen Jen lately...I don't read all of Marvell's books by a long shot... But, y'know... somehow green flesh just isn't as delicate as pink flesh, is... and she's THE HULk ... albeit in drag! Whatta ya want? her skin is virtually indestructable! Red Sonja's isn't, thank you very large ...If you get right down to it, the case for her busting outta her britches IF those clothes are Reed Richards' unstable molecule duds... is nul and void. those are the costumes that when the Torch flames on, go molecule neutral and when he flames off, go back to original costume. Mr Fantastic stretches this fabric from here to hell and gone... and the she hulk' clothes made outta the same material tear when she becomes three sizes bulkier???? are you trying to kid me here??? Ripped clothes??? Reed Richards' unstable molecules cannot stretch that far??? they do for Reed... they do better than that for the Torch... why not Jen??? Try "WE NEED MORE FLESH SHOWING ON THIS BROAD!" sexism...kiddo! Her costume or clothes don't hae to tear and basically undress her... it is all in what sells comics to pud pullers!!! Female flesh... green, pink or other...

You should have seen the coin bra and crotch hankie on Wendy Pini... she had that costume made for her by a pro costumeur...and it was a knockout! It was also still ludicrous for a warrior. It was guaranteed to make eyes bulge and pants bulge even further. when she walked by, there was not a dry pair of pants in the room...speaking of males, of course...and possibly some of the females, too... for all I know...
Wendy would go around with her dull, make believe sword and play at being Red Sonja...and I bet she never killed anything in her life... let alone had hot blood running down her elbows...a rather delicioous sensation to a real warrior...trust me on this.
Pure sexism, kiddo... nothing but... and yes, I know she was wearing it when I was still at Marvel...I yelled and screamed about it... yousee what good it did, don't you??? Barry windsor Smith at least had her in a viable costume... but it didn't have enough skin showing... and the code let it through... which boggles my mind even now. I guess they thought if Conan could wear a loincloth and a pair of boots, the girls should be equally nekkid...PTUI!

Now, why should YOU get into trouble at the Byrne board??? You gonna go over and tell him what I am saying? HELL, kiddo...they just did that on Newsarama...he doesn't have to come here! HA! I hear he is already badmouthing me about the excerpts on Newsarama...so who cares? For the past twenty five years Ihave convniently forgotten him and let others deal with his attitude... or not... but the tribute book thing brought him back into our sphere... and the aggrivattion factor mounted when others told me what he was saying about other creators...including Dave and Chris... so it is about time he found out how others think about him... and you know what? I am hearing from a lot of fans who think I am crazy as a loon about many things... but they also think I am bang on about Byrne!!!

Do I care? no. I only saay what I think and feel. what I can extrapolate from what is public knowledge, with the iknowledge of the inner workings of the biz that I have.

Byrne ticked me off before I ever met him . He used to have this robot character... named ROG 2000. He would do various things with him. A friend, Duffy Vohland apparently told him of this female friend, whom he corresponded with about comics, and Byrne... who was still a fan at the time... drew ME as a female robot, ala Rog... but with the designation ...PATY 69. Think about that. The asswipe had never even MET me and he slaps that designation on me!?! Did he think I ws stupid? A bimbo? a...c...well... you know...??? Or was he hoping? who knows? But it did not endear him to me to begin with. and he is either too stupid to understand what was insulting about it... or he is too crass to care. Then when he visited the offices for the first time and caused such a ruckus...people wanting to strangle him and such... I asked who this person was and was told John Byrne. Which immediately brought to mind the PATY69 THING...
I just stood back and watched the mayhem he created...one of his few lasting creations... everywhere he went in the offices... and figured someone would kill him sooner or later. I was an optimist in those days...

So you don't have to worry about Byrne, kiddo... just don't mention any other creator's name on his forum and you should be safe... but i hear he tossed an old time fan for mentioning that he liked Alan Moore's work...BOY! is THAT inseurity!!! Byrne has more chutzpa than brains... or common decency... What goes around comes around sooner or later, so Byrne better look to his past arrogance and quake in his boots. I don't think he has enough fans to wantonly waste them, these days...


Paty
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Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby SamKarns » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:02 am

I think you miss-understood what I meant about SHE-HULK. During the Savage She-Hulk book, the clothes Jen wore could not turn into a comics' code white dress. Her clothes should have burst off like the Incredible Hulk. Do you remember Jen wore button shirts and jeans through out the book? I agree with a lot of your concerns but I think She-Hulk should have been the exception if they did choose that route, but she's still intact to your perception of women in comics.

I find it strange these fans turn pro is so driven to have every female character to have barely anything on except for SHE-HULK a character who would be more logical to do so.

Red Sonja. We just have to agree to disagree, I was born seeing her in her chain mail princess leia outfit and have accepted it. I love it.
++++

Do any of you think Magneto is a little crazy and a bit extreme in his beliefs? I think it's a sign of cowardous to kill humans who are inferior to a person like Magneto.
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Postby Paty » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:21 pm

:magneto

Well, considering the fact that the worst thing he imagined for mutantkind has happened... with him too incapacitated to do anything but duck his head and survive,... the genocide of Genosha...under, by the way, Morrison... I don't think his viewpoints are extreme at all.
He watched millions of his Jewish kinfolk and friends slaughtered in the Holocause. He vowed to never let that happen again ... and guess what?... I did!
The choice of the number... sixteen million ... was no accident, either. There were estimated to be that number of Jews in Europe when Hitler began his slaughter of them. Add to that, the gypsies, gays and even christian sympathizers, and you have a rampage of genocide to equal no other in the history of mankind. but even Hitler didn't off all the jews...he tried, but no cigar... didn't kill the sixteen million he wanted to kill... but... guess what? sixteen million mutants perished on Genosha... and no outcry from the rest of the Marvel Universe world community.
You think he's a little crazy??? You wanna go for LOTTA crazy and with good reason???!!! The thing he spent his adult life trying to k eep from happening again... happened! and all he could do was sit and watch and survive again? can you imagine the guilt trip he must be on? survivors of the Holocaust go around hollow eyed and wracked with guilt at having survived THAT atrocity... and Mags survived BOTH the Holocaust AND the Genoshian genocide!
gimme a break! what do you want from this poor man? Blood? You got plenty of that... sixteen million souls worth. And get this...Magneto didn't know that Cassandra Nova was behind this genocide... the last time he knew, the Sentinels were in the hands of the HUMANS! reason enough to hate humans? You betcha! But I don't think he hates and wants to destroy all the humans... that was the false Maghneto of Planet X. It wouldn't be logical to begin with...cuz...think about it... WHERE do mutants come from??? the majority come from HUMAN parents!!! You wanna repopulate the world with mutants? You don't killl off all the humans...they are the source!!!
We haven't really seen what Mags thinks of all this crap... except what we saw in Excalibur... and he was being very reasonable there...not hating humans and actually being more sane and together than Xavier... who kept mistrusting him...this from the person who gave over his kids to Magneto's tender care not that long ago in Marvel time! You wanna spell hypocracy in action? X A V I E R
No, I don't think Mags is overreacting... I think the rest of the Marvel Universe is UNDER reacting. where was the outcry that should have been lifted when sixteen million souls were wasted... literally as well as figuratively.?! It didn't happen. Life went on as usual??? No biggie...they were only mutants, anywaay... You think Mags is too overreactive??? what world are you living in? sixteen million...any race, ethnic group, gathering, clan, whatever... sixteen million!!!
there were three thousand ... give or take... killed on 9/11 in an act of war so heinous that the world cried out FOUL! Nowhere near SIXTEEN MILLION in an act of out and out undeclared war on a soverign nation which had been ratified by the UN.
No... I don't think he is over reacting... I think he is in shock and is beyond reacting to anything right now.
then, he loses his powers... the only thing standing vetween him and a world that wants to kill him. Fear humans? sure... in all the storiy lines, the humans are persecuting ... sometimes to death... former mutants who are now...merely human! Wanna hate humans? I hate the humans as they are being written in the books today, too. There is no need for this persecution... and real humans wouldn't do it... I believe. they would say..."OK... you are human as me...welcome back!" That's what they would say...unless they had been abused by rogue mutants... and that happened to very few humans... so I don't believe that real humans would work that way. BUT IF THEY DID... and in the comics, thay ARE DOING THIS persecute the former mutants thing... MAGNETO WOULD HAVE EVERY REASON TO HATE THEM AND GO AFTER THEM AS SOON AS HE HAD POWER TO DO SO. THESE HUMANS ARE AS BAD AS THE NAZI WAR CRIMINALS WHO STOOD BY AND LET THE HOLOCAAUST HAPPEN AND WHO AIDED AND ABETTED IT DURING THE GENOCIDE.

I AM OUTRAGED AT HOW THAT WHOLE gENOSHA HOLOCAUST WAS HANDLED. iT BASICALLY SAID... THESE LIVES ARE OF NO SIGNIFICANCE... AND THAT IS DOWNRIGHT SCARY. ok... THEY ARE ONLY COMIC FIGURES... COMIC CHARACTERS... BUT WHAT KIND OF LESSON IS THIS TEACHING OUR KIDS? tHAT IT IS ok TO KILL SIXTEEN MILLION PEOPLE WHO ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOU ... AND NO ONE WILL RAISE A FINGER TO GET JUSTICE FOR THOSE KILLED? wE MUST REMEMBR cASSANDRA nOVA WAS SHELTERED AND PROTECTED BY xAVIER AFTER THE GENOCIDE. vERY LIKE THE NAZIS WHO WERE SHELTERED AND PROTECTED BY uNCLE sAM IN THE LATE FORTIES AND EARLY FIFTIES... UNTIL iSRAEL WENT AFTER THEM FOR VENGENCE.... AND JUSTICE. wITHOUT mOSSAD TRACKING DOWN THE NAZI WAR CRIMINALS, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO JUSTICE FOR THE MILLIONS THE NAZIS KILLED.

OH, crap... the caps thingie, which has a mind of it's own is misbehaving again... I am not retyping that... sorry for the above caps.. I am not shouting at you...honest! It is the damn caps button on this keyboard which activates when it wants to.
sorry about that...sigh...

but the upshot is, NO...I do not think he is overreacting. I do not think that a hatred of humans would be out of bounds for that kind of attack on a peaceful nation of mutants just getting their feet under them...no matter how belligerant their leader is. they didn't do any harm to anybody...in fact they were invaded and being used by other humans before the whole Sentinel thing went down! the humans have a LOT to answer for...and now, they are persecuting those who are as human as themselves.

c'mon... turn the other cheek only goes so far, y'know... survival instinct has gotta count for something here... and revenge is a dish wellknown to the human ape and best served cold. If they use the genocide at Genosha to make Mags into a total villain again... it would be a totally wrong waste of a character... but also totally believable and a viable reaction from him. It would, given his backstory, be unequivically understandable... and this interim of calm acceptance, merely a post traumatic shock reaction to the horror of Genosha. I will bet that is what they are gonna do...I hope it is not...but if they cannot get rid of Magneto's Jewish backstory... and with the movies cementing it, they cannot logically do this... their next trick is to make him so vile and hostile that no one will want to associate with him... and I am talking FANS here...not comic characters.
We will see what they do with him. A lot of people are watching and waiting for them to put their fat feet in their mouths and shove to knee AGAIN! especially with regard to this very popular Character.

Paty
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby SamKarns » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:58 am

I'm not too anal about caps. I'm fine with it. I see you're passionate at what you're talking about. What I also like is you don't feel the need to make someone feel stupid because my opinion is different.

Beast. When was it decided he would not be used as a member and why?

Who was responsible for him becoming fury and blue? Why was it decided he would be part of the avengers?

What was wrong with beast with large feet and white?
++++++

I guess you're tired of my She-Hulk question, but hust in case you didn't see it here goes:

During the Savage She-Hulk book, the clothes Jen wore turned into a comics' code white dress. Her clothes should have burst off like the Incredible Hulk. Do you remember Jen wore button shirts and jeans through out the book? I agree with a lot of your concerns but I think She-Hulk should have been the exception if they did choose that route, but she's still intact to your perception of women in comics.

I find it strange these fans turn pro is so driven to have every female character to have barely anything on except for SHE-HULK a character who would be more logical to do so.

Thoughts?
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Postby Dark Bamf » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:12 am

Frankly, Scarlet, I don't give a damn about She-Hulk's clothes. And I don't remember who was responsible for making Hank McCoy blue and furry. My mind seems to want to connect Jim Starlin to the art chores, but I may be mistaken. Jim wrote most of his projects, but whether or not he got tthe blame for that...I dunno either. I spent some time on Google trying to find out, but no luck. And our comics are still unaccessable out in the barn. Especially unaccessable to me, since I can't climb the stairs.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby RodrigoBaeza » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:44 pm

Originally posted by Dark Bamf
And I don't remember who was responsible for making Hank McCoy blue and furry.


The first "blue and furry" Beast story was done by Gerry Conway and Tom Sutton, in an issue of "Amazing Adventures".

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Postby Dark Bamf » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:19 am

Aha! That's why I couldn't find out. I was looking under 'Beast;. Some of these compilers actually listed Giant Sized X-Men #1 as the first Beast issue.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby SamKarns » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:18 am

Where is Paty? Is she okay?
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Postby Dark Bamf » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:41 pm

What, you think I locked her in the basement orsomething? No, she's just been busy, She'll be blasting back onto thezse pag es shortly.

Actually, we were just back in Illinois viting my (94-year-old) dad, and she brought back a vissual aid he no longer uses, a gozzmo called a video eye. It's different from the CCTV, the devicr she has, and she believes it'll be a better aid for ner work. She's been rearranging her room to make a place for it, then she has to set it up. She'll be back, no fear.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:43 pm

:magneto

OKK...OK... sheesh! I don't get on the devilbox for a week and people wonder if Dave's done me in...LOLOL... besides, we don't have a basement in this house...

Hi, SK...how ya doin'? LOL... As Dave said.. I have a new toy to help me maybe get back to drawing and I have to rearrange a whole shitload of furniture to accomodate it! Plus, we have houseguests coming in this weekend, so I have to get up to the studio to change the sheets on the guest quarters up there and dust a bit... and I had to shop after our sojourn to Daddy's... so, as Dave said, I really have been too busy to look at the computer. I even went no mail on one of my very active lists, but the other list, the Magneto Mailing List, went bonkers and I haven't even had time to read all the posts that came in on that!!! sigh...making news of the Master wait... go figure...LOL

Yes, indeedy, the first appearance of the Beast in blue was in Amazing Adventures... and I guess you have to thank Gerry Conway for that decision. Back then, editors actually edited and didn't write the storylines for writers to follow. which is how it is being done today... editorial writing the storylines for a whole year and making writers simply write dialogue...with predictible stagnation... In any event, back then, when storytellers actually told stories, writers would get an idea. If they really wanted to pursue that idea, they would go to their editor and run it by him or her. If the idea meant a radical change to an established character, they would sometimes go to the Ed in Chief... who, at the time, was Stan, himself. If you could present a case for the change you wanted to do to or with the characer, It might be allowed. I think the change to Hank McCoy was OKed because they wanted a little diversity in the visuals back then and GS 1 hadn't come out yet with Nightcrawler. The name "Beast" just didnnn't seem applicable to a person whose only beast like attributes were large hands and feet... and the ability to use them to swing from trees and ledges and such. They decided they wanted him to be more "beast-like" so they made him more animalistic in appearance. They probably either told the artist on the book to design something... or maybe Romita SR, who was Art Director at the time, designed the look. Next time I talk to him, I shall ask him about it...he will probably remember. Of course, the further mutation into a cat-like appearance I believe we lay to Morrison and his "secondary mutation" storyline. I hesitate to say crap, because it COULD have been interesting. He left it to others to make it interesting, or not according to THEIR talent... cuz he sure didn't embellish on it, himself ,to any coherent degree.

regarding the she Hulk... yes, indeedy... with the attendant height and bulk change that Jen goes through, her clothes should definately split...or at least bulge at the seams...like the Hulk"s pants, which never seem to split, no matter what the bulk ratio is. You wanna know why the Hulk is so mean and angry and uncontrollable all the time??? It's because his balls are awueezed into size thirty two waist britches... THAT'S WHY!!!
Those pants never split a seam... and were squeezing him in threads of iron long before anyone even thought of "unstable molecules" in clothing.
So the Hulk has the same problem as the she Hulk, to my mind. Especially in the earlier issues when Banner was drawn as a ninety four pound weakling scientist type... and the Hulk really bulked up to about three times Banner's size. Modesty, and the Code, I am sure, kept the pants from shredding right off him... but it hadda hurt in places they couldn't even mention back in those days!!! At least I always thought so.
At least she Hulk has the advantage of changable "unstable molecules" to adjust her clothing to cover nekkid NO-NOs... although with today's standards of dress code, I don't know why they even bother... most females have a degree of nudity that boggles the mind. cheap thrills for pud pullers, I guess.

My take is that comics could be a medium that adults could enjoy, too, if the story quality weren't sacrificed for the juvenile sex thrill factor.... and let's not forget biggerr and bigger explosions...covering whole double page spreads and going on for three or four pages! Gee...I wonder what THAT signifies to the juvenile mind...

OOOOOOooooo... OOOOOooooo... I KNOW... but I can't say it here...

heh heh...
In any event ...I am back and have hopefully answered all the questions to date... if I have skipped any... blind eyes and waning mental abilities... just repeat the query...I will try to get to it eventually...LOL Yes, you may not agre with me, but at least you know where I stand on things...and I will defend to the death your right to express your opinion, too... As I have always said, a difference of opinion not only makes horse races, but it makes for interesting exchange of ideas and discussions, too... if people can divorce their opinions on a subject from their sense of self worth.
It seems to me that more trouble is caused by people not being able to allow others their own opinion and pathway in life. and that is so wrong. to me, there is no ONE WAY... there are a multitude of possibilities... and the only thing I get judgemental about... as most teachers do...is the execution of the idea. Is it logical, entertaining or breaking new ground in a logical manner? with storytelling and established characters, I can be very demending. If you are setablishing new characters that you, as a writer or artist want to act and look a certain way, then GO, BABY, GO!!!
If you are using established characters, you must adhere to the core characterization set down by canon. You can build on this, and establish formerly unknown things... like Claremont did with Mags, or Chuck Austen did with the Juggernaut... but you need to know and consider the character's former established history. when writers don't do this, I have issues with not only them, but the editors who let them do it...to the detriment or destruction of the character.
I also have a problem... on a corporate level, if nothing else... with writers who "kill" characters for shock value only. Gratuitous death is not what the comics should be about, any more than gratuitous sex. These are supposed to be adventure stories... not TRUE SEX AND VIOLENCE magazines.
And while writers will and do inject their own biases and "takes" and agendas into their writing, comics should not be used as a propaganda machine. And comics should be fun, too. This fact has been lost, I believe. The last "fun" stuff I remember reading was Booster Gold and Blue Beetle on Kooey Kooey Kooey...and that was hilarious...especially the other superheroes reactions to this adult version of getting the spare change out of mama's purse and going down to the corner store to blow it on comics and an ice cream sundae! LOL

OK... enough for now... gotta go and get this place whipped into shape so our guests won't think we live in a pigsty...and I am still tearing up my room and moving furniture... so my participation for a while may be spotty... but Dave hasn't slit my throat and buried me under the duck pond or anything...LOL
but thanks for noticing I wasn't around, kiddo...LOL...it would warm the ol' cockles... if I had any cockles...

LOL
paty
:magneto

[Edited on 9-10-2006 by Dark Bamf]
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby SamKarns » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:58 am

Cockles? I am young.

Well... I will continue these discussions when you're ready or when Dave pops in from time to time.

I'm sure you'll be cooking for your guests like you did for one of our members?

If so, boy are they lucky. I heard you cook pretty well?

[Edited on 9/10/06 by SamKarns]
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Postby Dark Bamf » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:24 am

Dhe does. How d'ya think I got to be so rotund?

I had a sudden thought about unstable molecules. Reed Richards has had serious money problems over the years. But you'd think a guy with his brains would think of licencing the formula to all the fabric manufacturers of the world, and making a fortune off the royalties! He must really be 'the world's dumbest smart guy' if he hasn't thought of it. :LOL

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby SamKarns » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:55 am

So true. Which comes to mind... Did you and Chris think of your characters to have unstable molecule outfits during your run?

What you think of Angel as a character?
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Postby Dark Bamf » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:04 pm

TYeah, we figured on unstable molecules. Tht's howcome Colossus' blue pants disappeared when he was armnored up.

I didn't think much of Angel. I'm a Hawkman fan. Nicest thing you can say about Angel is, he's pretty, and he flies.

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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:58 am

:magneto
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA
He's pretty ... and he flies??? Oh, that's too good! He's also rich...wealthy...lotsa loot! Can't make yourself a heaven on earth without big bucks, Y'know...LOL
Of course, he's snootty about it, too... poor little rich kid. Him and emma...sigh...
I never cared much for angel but Dave is correct...he is pretty and he flies. Hawkman is a much btter character...he's gritty, a warrior and he has Hawkgirl/woman to fly around the skies with and their costumes are cool. angel is such a lame monniker for a superhero...sigh...I liked it better when he was the Darkangel... We actually had some gorounds designing a costume for a DarkAngel version of him. I think they did a "dark" form of him in later issues... but lost track of him for a while. He's back in and out of the mansion these days, I think... but mostly he keeps to himself.

Reed Richards can be about the stupidest superhero extant at times... but that is an engineer for ya... they don't communicate well... ask Dear Abby and Ann Landers... they have done whole columns on women married to engineers who bemoan the engineer lack of communication skills... case in point, I was married to an engineer for twelve years... simply couldn't talk to the guy... there was no viewpoint but his own... so you KNOW we butted heads often. He usually lost the arguement by throwing up his hands and storming off when I wouldn't concede my point. Reed is totally in character as an enginer/inventor type. Brilliant in his field and dumb as a stump in relationships, common sense and real living. Not all engineers are like this, of course... but an uncomfortably high majority show a similar pattern .
I always thought Reed talked down to Sue and didn't like him for it. Never thought they should have married... but hey...marriage happens, so I guess the couple is OK as the token married couple for the company. Others may split... but Reed and Sue were the essential married couple muddling through. It was a rule. Wonder if it still is in today's topsy turvy Marvel Universe.
I am still rearranging the house for fall housecleaning. I gotta bring in the plants from the screen porch, which entails a whole rearrangement of the living room to accomodate them... so housecleaning..UGH... twice a year whether it needs it or not...sigh...so my attendance will be spotty for a while yet, sorry guys and gals...LOL
I promise to peek in occasionally until I finish up... but we have another guest coing in to hotel cockrum this week... and yes, I do feed my guests on occasion. No one leaves hungry...it's a rule! I have a goal of massive weight gain for all my guests...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA

LOL
paty
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Angelique » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:24 am

Warren was known as Archangel for a bit. Probably still is. At any rate, I think it is a neater code name. Not so heavily associated with warm, fuzzy, sentimental Christmas card misconceptions.

As for the Richards', I will only use the spoiler text just in case. [spoiler] You really, really do not want to read Civil War or any of the Fantastic 4 tie-ins. Suffice to say, it will be interesting to see how and if they patch things up. [/spoiler]
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby SamKarns » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:41 am

I like the codename Angel, always have and always will. During my days in catholic school Nuns would tell stories of what angels could do so I never thought they were pussies. I think Angels are bad asses.

++++

Were there X-Men members you regret not exploring?

+++++

PATY!!!! Where are you?
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Dave's perspectives on X-Men

Postby Paty » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:49 am

:magneto
LOL...I am right here. what? you didn't read my latest post just above Angelique's??? I did that one yesterday!

Yeah... angels can be badasses... but the point was that Warren Worthington wasn't a badass...he was the fluffy bunny kind of angel.PTUI!!!
You want retribution or flaming sword kind of angel...yeah... he might have been interesting. But a costume with a halo on it? gimme a break. Better than the school uniform, I guess...but I never saw him as much more than a prissy do gooder...never a force to be reconed with...like Hawkman... who is down and dirty in the avenging fllyboy tradition. Total badass!!!
Maybe it's that the wings are white...and you think "dove" rather than hawk or eagle. doves are fat fluffies...hawks and eagles you do not mess with cuz they have talons and they will kill you! when he was blue, with the mechanical wings, I took him a little more seriously. then, he might kill you. You don't take flying things seriously unless you know they can or will hurt you. The Wasp has more sting than the Angel. Her you take seriously... A wasp can hurt you...what can a dove do? shit on your head?
Actually, I could see development of Warren take a nasty turn. That would be interesting... a reversal on bad character turning good like Rogue...l or at least adversarial rather than outright villainous...ike Mags and Juggy... He would be much more interesting with internal conflicts making him somewhat ruthless on the inside while having this angelic, fluffy bunny exterior. A power-mad lex luthor kind of thing...or Doc Doom kind of thing...a darkness inside that he struggles with would give him more interest and dimension as a character. The not quite fallen angel with a valid point to his rebellion. But, like Magneto's valid viewpoints, his divergance from fluffy bunnyness would need to be traumatic. It might, indeed, be interesting. Flffy bunny Angel fans would howl, of course...LOL...but as the character stands now, he is a nonentrity...just another dogooder in the Xavier mold... with wings. He's pretty and he flies. so are butterflies. But they aren't superheroes.
Paty
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Magneto Rules!
Xavier drools!
Write support the Claremont Magneto! Cast a vote for complexity in characterization! And write to protest THE USELESS KILLING OF NIGHTCRAWLER !!!
Write to :
Isaac Perlmutter , Alan Fine, Alex Alonso and Nick Lowe at
Marvel Entertainment Inc.
135 W 50th Street
New York, NY 10020
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