QUITTING TIME???? Kurt leaves the X-Men!

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:38 pm

Maybe we need a giant bug-zapper?

Kurt may have had an 'open-door' policy with Amanda that allowed him easier access to Limbo. Didn't she want to clean out a draw for him?

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:28 am

Angelique wrote:
The Drastic Spastic wrote: In the last series, random people on the street also "knew" he'd "been a priest". Which he hadn't, and none of his friends even "knew" about it until after it was all over.
That moment in the last solo series occurred only in Nightcrawler's imagination while he was running something like a 106 degree fever. I don't think it counts.

No, it didn't.

It's in the first issue when he's talking to the security guard.

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:19 am

Maybe the guard had been to one of Kurt services or something...

BTW...I love your avatar, Dras...is that your kitty? It's so wretchedly adorable...bath-time to nap-time in the blink of an eye

Jeremus · Post by **Jeremus** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:59 pm

Elfdame wrote:
You know there's only one way to get rid of her, but I'm afraid to actually use the "I don't believe in faeries" defense because I'd be afraid that a REAL pixie would drop down dead.
Thank you for giving me the biggest laugh I will probably have today.

That was brilliant.

I'm glad I could make somebody happy!:)

('Cause I'm REALLY going to cry if Kurt leaves the X-men for good....

)

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:27 pm

Nandireya wrote:Maybe the guard had been to one of Kurt services or something...

BTW...I love your avatar, Dras...is that your kitty? It's so wretchedly adorable...bath-time to nap-time in the blink of an eye

Or maybe Marvel just constantly forgets to keep its writers on the same page?

*cough*Civil War*cough*

Jeremus · Post by **Jeremus** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:31 pm

The Drastic Spastic wrote:
Angelique wrote:
The Drastic Spastic wrote: In the last series, random people on the street also "knew" he'd "been a priest". Which he hadn't, and none of his friends even "knew" about it until after it was all over.
That moment in the last solo series occurred only in Nightcrawler's imagination while he was running something like a 106 degree fever. I don't think it counts.
No, it didn't. It's in the first issue when he's talking to the security guard.

You're right. Was it Barney(?) the security guard from the hospital (issue #1)? He said he read about Kurt studying for the priesthood.....

Maybe Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa doesn't agree with Austin's "Bobby Ewing" scenario to get Kurt out of the priesthood. There are a lot of people who sort of ignore that storyline..... (I'm kind of with them because it's too hard for me to believe that so many people knew he was a priest ...I mean he even had a collar on his uniform... and then suddenly it was all in his head ?:?.......but I digress)

OR... the third Nightcrawler series occurred BEFORE he discovered it was all in his head.....which would mean Barney maybe really didn't exist,.... but I really doubt that.

Maybe the idea that his priesthood was all in his head....was all in his head...(like maybe that Pontiff guy really screwed with his mind and made him THINK that his being a priest was all in his head). I could go for that.

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:12 pm

I think Kurt's studying to be a priest was universal...but his being ordained was only in Uncanny and THAT'S what was all in his head...

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:34 am

Isn't it against the church law to wear a collar when you haven't been ordained?

And durrrrr, that stupid costume was also all in his head. The whole thing was just a bad dream. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:32 am

*shrugs* I've never studied to be a priest...couldn't if I wanted to...being female and all...

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:32 am

It is. Men who are studying for the priesthood don't wear the collar until and unless they've been ordained to the transitional diaconate, the last step before being ordained a priest.

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:39 am

Just goes to show how badly thought out the whole thing was...

Ult_Sm86 · Post by **Ult_Sm86** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:01 pm

that's the problem though, it really wasn't thought out.

Chuck-o just went and changed shit 'cuz he thought he could. TBH though, half the time Marvel was dictating certain things. He took a lot of shit and I've read his blog and he's a dick, sure, but he's not completely at fault.

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:29 pm

Also to be perfectly fair, making Nightcrawler a priest was one of Claremont's ideas. It could have been interesting in theory , but it was handled dreadfully by pretty much every author who dealt with it from inception to retcon.

Jeremus · Post by **Jeremus** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:58 pm

You're right. I think Claremont's idea was fair...sort of a 'what if Kurt becomes a priest'. I didn't mind it. But if they wanted to get him out of that role, there were a hundred ways to do it that would have been fair and dignified to the character. To make him choose to leave for personal reasons (which was sort of being set up, I thought) where he couldn't accept the Church's stance on certain issues.....that would have been 'fair'. But to make it all a hoax/dream.....that was low. In my opionion it wasn't respectful to Kurt. Also, the Supreme Pontiff would have been a great adversary for him....(maybe he could have had ties with Mephisto or something....I don't know), but THAT was all screwed up too.

Still, there are those authors that seem to refuse to accept Austen's version that Kurt's not a priest or was never ordained. Aguirre-Sacasa in the Nightcrawler series, Rucka (in Wolverine #19 Logan had Kurt meet him at the bar because he needed a priest), and Robertson drew Kurt as a priest when he was 'image-induced' in the Wolverine series and in Unlimited (forgot the issue #) when he visited Kitty.

Maybe you're right, Nandireya.... maybe it was his ordination that was all in his head and not his studying. I really need to go thru the back issues.

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:40 pm

I honestly don't think there was any way to get Nightcrawler out of the priesthood that would have been, as you put it, 'fair' short of making his ordination something that never really happened.

As a good Catholic, he would have known that leaving the priesthood just does not happen. You can be laicized, but you can't just quit being a priest like quitting a job. Having a character join the priesthood is something that has to be done right or not done at all because it is a permanent change.

Post by **Freak** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:02 pm

I'm with sk in this, you're basically a priest for life if you're a catholic.

And here i I see the inherent problem with the whole story: You can't make any real lasting changes in a comicverse, a certain status quo has to be sustained...OR you do something that can't be easily changed back and you end up with resurrected characters, false priesthood, and deals with the Devil.

Jeremus · Post by **Jeremus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:25 pm

Sorry to keep this priest thread going but I'm not Catholic and it's interesting:

So you start out with a calling and then you enter a seminary and study study study. Then you pass a test (?) and are ordained to the transitional diaconate where you live like a priest for a sort of trial period (?). (I assume you can't perform the Mass or anything....but what are your duties? Are you called Father, then?) Then, you decide that being a priest is exactly what you want, and, with approvel, you're ordained to the priesthood where you are a priest for life. Is this right or am I completely off?

So if Kurt was an ordained priest, he couldn't quit. But if he were still in the seminary, he could quit....but he wouldn't have been called a priest. Right?

Just want to learn new things

Jeremus · Post by **Jeremus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:33 pm

Nandireya quoted:

Maybe we need a giant bug zapper?

I wonder what Gambit's up to these days....

[Edited on 01/19/09 by Jeremus]

[Edited on 01/19/09 by Jeremus]

Elfdame · Post by **Elfdame** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:45 am

Jeremus wrote:Sorry to keep this priest thread going but I'm not Catholic and it's interesting:

So if Kurt was an ordained priest, he couldn't quit. But if he were still in the seminary, he could quit....but he wouldn't have been called a priest. Right?

Right. Like the sacrament of Baptism, ordination changes one's soul forever. One may reject the love but the bond remains. Imagine getting adopted; you are now and forever part of that family, but you still have free will to not show up at the reunions or snub everyone on the Xmas card list. But you are their family even if you didn't start life that way. Not a perfect explanation, but I hope it helps.

And, yes, it's *kind of* the way you describe although it varies from era to era and culture to culture. The diaconate was at first its own type of order (cf the Bible, book of Acts of the Apostles, chapter 6) but thru the centuries up til the last 40 yrs it kind of morphed into a step on the way to priesthood. Some men now are deacons for life, as their own calling.

Most of the time they do go to seminary as well as pass certain tests to determine their psych profile, etc. If they make it to diaconate ordination, they can still "drop out" from the priesthood path. Some of them wear the collar during this time, but you do NOT call them Father yet. A bishop ordains a priest. Other bishops ordain bishops.

HTH

Jeremus · Post by **Jeremus** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:50 pm

THANKS!

This definitely helps! I think your adoption comparison explained the priesthood perfectly. I really appreciate the information!

Elfdame · Post by **Elfdame** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:34 pm

Anytime, no prob. Actually, SK had a thread explaining a lot of this kinda stuff (before my time here), so I'd best quit hijacking this one.

But any questions you have about Catholicism, feel free to post or PM me. I am a crappy Catholic, but it's the most important thing to me.

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:03 pm

Freak wrote:I'm with sk in this, you're basically a priest for life if you're a catholic.

Unless you just go and renounce the whole entire thing, right?

Angelique · Post by **Angelique** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:07 pm

The Drastic Spastic wrote:
Freak wrote:I'm with sk in this, you're basically a priest for life if you're a catholic.
Unless you just go and renounce the whole entire thing, right?

Nope. Then, you'd just be a laicized priest. Still a priest.

Post by **Slarti** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:43 pm

If anybody is interested in gettng back to the point of this thread, I thought I'd just point out listening to the Uncanny X-Cast podcast the other day that the hosts felt like this one-shot is just a simple ploy to get people to buy yet another one-shot.

It's by a no-name writer and artist and they think exactly because Kurt hasn't had a lot to do in the main books and has been suffering these inexplicable doubts that Marvel decided to make a few bucks by pimping a whole book that will just explore his doubts and explain why he might be missing for a month or two before the books/teams get reshuffled again.

Elfdame · Post by **Elfdame** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:46 pm

Oh, joy. Angsty!Kurt. No buckles swashed, damsels saved, or witty jibes traded, I'll wager.

*sigh*