The Nerds thus Spakth'

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The Nerds thus Spakth'

Postby Saint Kurt » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:49 pm

Or, well they voted at least. We nerds are democratic that way I guess.

CBR did a poll a few years ago ranking the top 50 X-men. I don't go to their forums much because it's kind of a wretched hive of scum and villainy, but I was cautious and I came out of it without having to cut anyone's arm off. I also discovered they did a new poll for 2008!

Nightcrawler is in it and I'll get to that, but first, the weirdness. The results are just ... well, to me it shows how out of touch Marvel is with their fans.

Several of the characters on the top 50 are Chuck Austen creations. Didn't the fans HATE Austen? They sent him death threats and stuff. But a few years later people are putting Husk and Stacy X in their top ten lists. Maybe Austen wasn't so evil after all. {Edit: I just got totally schooled on my knowledge of things XMen by Slarti so yeah... they're not really Austen's characters. I totally thought they were. I'm leaving my original text up so you all can share mistake as well. :) }

Cyclops was #2 which was like ... shocking to me because I have never personally encountered anyone who says that Scott Summers is their favorite X-Men character. And I've met a lot of nerds. I used to work at science fiction and comics conventions. Never saw any love for Cyclops. But there is clearly a great deal of love that was previously unknown by me. Go Slim!

Rogue was #1. So it's a good thing the Marvel writers utilize that fan love in the books so well by keeping her in a coma.

Wolverine was #7. So apparently he's not the best he is at what he does. He's the seventh best. Which would make him the last picked if the X-Men were a Football team (or soccer or whatever you guys want to call it). So it's a good thing he's in at least 8 or 9 Marvel books each month.

Nightcrawler is in one book each month which is really too bad since he is #6 on the list. (And more importantly rated as more people's #1's than Wolverine was - people who like Nightcrawler REALLY seem to like Nightcrawler.)

I don't know, but it seems like there's a message in there somewhere. It's surprising how many new characters or side characters ended up quite prominent on the list. The fact that Xorn was on the list at all is SHOCKING to me.

Pixie was #34 so, I can totally see why Marvel is making such a big deal about her. As opposed to Nightcrawler who's only like ... 28 more nerd poll spots more popular than she.

;)

-e

{EDIT: Came clean on my weak 80/90s X-Books knowledge. --SK}

[Edited on 28/1/2009 by Saint Kurt]
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Postby Diablo » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:32 pm

Well, it's great to read this kind of topic. Thanks, Saint Kurt. :)

So there's still some blue elf love around, apart from this fine, fine place.
Good to know !

Now if only Marvel could hear us all... That's another matter, entirely. :rolleyes
Let's wait for the next convention announcement, shall we ?
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Postby Bamfing_Bob » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:48 pm

Wow, this is sad cuz you'll recall Wzard #200 where they listed the top 200 comic characters of all time. Wolvie stole the top spot, but Nighty ranked in the 130's. Look's like Wizard needs to give Nighty more credit.

And I agree about Cyke. He's a dork...
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Postby Angelique » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:04 pm

Saint Kurt wrote:Nightcrawler is in one book each month...


And that's only if it's determined that his minimal presence in that book doesn't interfere with Scott and Emma or detract from the incarnate awesomeness that we're expected to believe is Pixie.
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Postby Saint Kurt » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:29 am

Angelique wrote:And that's only if it's determined that his minimal presence in that book doesn't interfere with Scott and Emma or detract from the incarnate awesomeness that we're expected to believe is Pixie.


That's exactly what I'm saying!

It occurs to me though that, his minimal presence might be a good thing. (hear me out on this one...)

Too much Wolverine and people are like ... "Meh...He's the best at what he does, all the time, in all the plots. Whatevvvver.....zzzzzzz." But Nightcrawler (and Gambit - people who like Gambit are even crazier than Nightcrawler fans. They REALLY like Gambit) got a lot of favorites (as in when ranking their top 10 favorites, they were in the #1 spot). To me the favorite thing is really important. It means that people go to the store, take the book off the shelf, see what their favorites are doing and if it looks like they aren't doing anything interesting, they just might put the book back. (Tell me I am NOT the only one who does this.) You don't actually need to skim through the book to find out if Wolverine's in there or not.

If people are doing the skim for their favorites thing then, you want to have a lot of time devoted to favorites right? And well, they've certainly got a lot of time devoted to Cyclops. (Still floored by the #2 spot and the 22 favorites thing, but whatever... so there are Cyclops fans out there. I can deal.) But what about Rogue? She spends a lot of her time sort of between big cool events (as in she'll be comatose and when she wakes up it's a huge plot changing revelation then she loses her powers and when she gets them back ... it's in a really cool way.) In that way, I can see Rogue's appeal, she's hot, she's got big knockers and a tight outfit, and when she's in action - things happen; when she's not, you know something is going to happen.

What does Nightcrawler do?

Admittedly, he gets smacked down in battles almost as much as Rogue does (but not quite) but when he gets back into action lately it's been so he can tell people that he really does suck as much as he was afraid he did. (Even if he awakes and immediately kicks ass.) I like that Nightcrawler has doubts, I can totally relate, it's exactly like veterinary school. I get up in the morning wondering if I'm going to suck as utterly as I did yesterday and by the end of the day a bunch of really smart doctors have told me that actually, I suck more. This, I have come to believe is part of my medical education. Somehow. I'm not sure how yet, but I'm told that it's going to make me a better doctor someday and since I don't know any other way, I believe them. So it's just one of the many things about Nightcrawler's character to which I can relate.

Clearly a lot of other people can relate to his character, but maybe part of his popularity is that it's there in small doses? Pixie on the other hand doesn't have doubts - she's a little like Nightcrawler was and Wolverine is but in a Kitty Pryde kind of "They like me! They REALLY like me!" kind of way. It's going to get old. If they don't watch out she's going to be the next Wesley Crusher who the Star Trek guys thought all the nerds would want to be, but instead they just wanted to beat the crap out of him. But if Nightcrawler keeps plodding along, peeking his head into frames, and saying reasonable, relatable, believable stuff and then once and a while doing something awesome? That might put him where Rogue is some day.

Which is pretty much exactly what's happening with the character now right? :)

-e

{EDIT: brutal typo :( --SK}

[Edited on 29/1/2009 by Saint Kurt]
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Postby Angelique » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:37 am

On the other hand, with the economy being what it is, there is such a thing as too little of a good thing too. I don't want to pay three dollars for a book that has only one page I like or a three panel (if even that) appearance of a favorite character.

I don't skim for favorites. I skim to see if the whole book is worth my money, and if I have to search through pages of dross to find one page I like, I'm not buying.

Who knows? Maybe Marvel thinks they're doing us more monetarily challenged 'Crawler fans a favor by reducing/eliminating our motivation to spend our money on them.

Aw, who the heck am I kidding?

At any rate, I'm saving money. :evil

[Edited on 29/1/2009 by Angelique]
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:56 pm

Saint Kurt wrote:I don't go to their forums much because it's kind of a wretched hive of scum and villainy, but I was cautious and I came out of it without having to cut anyone's arm off.


:D

I don't know, has Nightcrawler quit sucking in the last year or so? Haven't been keeping track. The doubts, last I saw, were overwhelming. Not cool. A little doubt is normal, but it's way beyond that.

Maybe he was always like that, and I just can't relate any more.

I started really liking Cyclops when he originally hooked up with Emma Frost. That has been handled really well for years now, and probably has something to do with his approval raiting bump. That relationship makes him a much stronger character, and far more relatable and likeable than his relationship with Jean ever did.
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:11 pm

Hmm....

well I'll make a few points here.

1) You have to remember that a lot of the times polls are taken on fan forums but who goes on fan forums?
Well yeah, duh fans, but what kind? You get comic fans sure. I mean hell, Slarti, SK, myself, don't forget hundreds of others, we came to Nightscrawlers (or certain members founded it) out of their love for the comic series.

HOWEVER; there's also the significant number of fans who have seen, and maybe only seen, the movies and/or tv series('). With Wolverine & The X-men out, Scott is kinda bad ass this time around. Don't forget freakishly dashing and fantastic singer James Marsden played Scott, which I don't care how much you hate him, he nailed the part and *still* gave him enough charisma to maybe perk up his fan base. (Scott's I mean).

So don't rule out that there's also people who have no freakin' *clue* about who our Nightcrawler is. Though six is sweet, I think he should be in the top five (if I remember correctly he has been for a long time.) I'm sure these numbers would change if they poll again after "Wolverine Origins"

2) How do they do their poll? How do they analyze their results? I'd really like to see the data table for this one because I find it very, and I stress very, hard to believe Wolverine is that far behind. Again, if he is, then wait til Origins is out. That should change everything. But maybe, JUST MAYBE, the fans are finally getting sick of seeing that guy in every god damn book.

3) Where's spider-Man? :smirk JK. My actual third point is you say you were "surprised" SK (as I would have initially been as well) and then "shocked" at Xorn's appearance, but I'll be honest, Marvel has been working hard to bring in new characters. Now we may complain about them all the time, but they're still coming in and they're making good appearances. They're usually presented in nifty venues. Now I'm not saying the new characters rock hardcore, but I believe that until recently they have handled bringing in newbies to their ranks very well, introducing characters with different abilities and giving each one a whirl on the "plot-ride". Again though, I'd like to see the polls after Wolverine Origins, or even Wolverine & The X-men completes its first season. Bet you'll see totally different numbers after that series. I'm thinking even this "Quitting Time" (or whatever they're calling it now) might even change the placing of some of those characters either for the good or the bad. We'll have to wait and see.
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Postby Angelique » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:35 pm

Nightcrawler was given a few brief moments of not sucking recently under Brubaker's pen (taking out a Warskrull single-handedly, proving better than Wolverine and Colossus combined at taking out Omega Red- while injured, to boot, being written as nice and/or funny during some down time, et cetera,). But Marvel seems to have the idea that we're more interested in less popular Pixie, Wolverine, and Emma than in seeing any more good stuff with Nightcrawler.

As for Cyclops' likeability, taking into account only the comic books, I find that just as irrational as the way hot telepaths seem to adore him despite having no legitimate reason to do so. (I mean, even the crazy, understandably bitter ex-wife who hates his guts can't keep her hands off him, and he was horrible to her!)

[Edited on 29/1/2009 by Angelique]
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Postby neling4 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:08 pm

Saint Kurt wrote:
To me the favorite thing is really important. It means that people go to the store, take the book off the shelf, see what their favorites are doing and if it looks like they aren't doing anything interesting, they just might put the book back. (Tell me I am NOT the only one who does this.)


You're not. I do it too.

I was pleased to note that the poster refused to acknowledge the "Racoday" arc.
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Postby Elfdame » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:45 pm

Angelique wrote:
As for Cyclops' likeability, taking into account only the comic books, I find that just as irrational as the way hot telepaths seem to adore him despite having no legitimate reason to do so.


I too wonder why they fall for him, although stability must be kinda nice when you see how devious most people are (emotionally; I realize Cyke is devious tactically but that's a plus in his favor). But at the risk of having to heft rotten tomatoes at myself, I have to admit that he was kinda neat during Whedon's portrayal. Admirable (except for the Emma fixation). And there have been one or two folks (I forget at the mo) who wrote him rather sympathetically in X-novels.

But if my first experience of Scott had been during Astonishing Whedon era, I'd be inclined to cut the fellow some slack. He even made some clever remarks and then kicked boo-tay when the baddies least expected.

Since I don't follow the comics, I had no idea where Kurt was this whole time, though I did squee upon seeing Spidey and Kurt together ... for a few, all too brief, moments.
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Postby Nandireya » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:11 am

Angelique wrote:As for Cyclops' likeability, taking into account only the comic books, I find that just as irrational as the way hot telepaths seem to adore him despite having no legitimate reason to do so. (I mean, even the crazy, understandably bitter ex-wife who hates his guts can't keep her hands off him, and he was horrible to her!)


Secondary mutation?
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Postby Elfdame » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:53 pm

Nandireya wrote:
Angelique wrote:As for Cyclops' likeability, taking into account only the comic books, I find that just as irrational as the way hot telepaths seem to adore him despite having no legitimate reason to do so.


Secondary mutation?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! ROFLMFBO!!!!!
{clears throat} Clearly, a pheromone-boosted reaction. How obvious.

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Postby fourpawsonthefloor » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:03 pm

I think Emma liked him cause she could dance him like a puppet. It's only lately that he's seeming to draw a bit away from that and develop a backbone (kinda).
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:44 pm

The best thing Marvel could do right now is have Scott blast Emma through a wall, hook up with someone completely random, let's say Liz for the sake of saying someone, have someone, please SOMEBODY, kill wolverine (like KILL HIM, but keep him dead longer than DC killed Supes) so you get some real turmoil, have the X-men freak out so certain people *have* to come back and school the idiot nerds on how to be an x-man w/out Loan (*cough*Nightcrawler, Peter, Hank, etc..*cough*), and then top all of that off with Kurt finding out Scott used a little "go-team" of killers from his own X-men and informs Xavier (provided the guy is around I can't keep track of when wheels goes on holidays anymore) and the two ban him from the school, leaving three books. Scott's Malicious X-Force (in search of Logan's body and Logan's killer), Uncanny X-Men (the actual non-lethal X-men Go Team) and New X-Men (which would be boring in school shenanigans to introduce more new people and see if their characters are worthy of getting into Uncanny or not).

That's how I see it at least. Marvel should do *that*.

[Edited on 30/1/09 by Ult_Sm86]
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Postby Bamfing_Bob » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:55 pm

I'd buy it....
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Postby Elfdame » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:44 pm

But ... but {splutters} what about The Incredible Pixette? Oh, I see, she hooks up with Scott.

JK, folks.
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Postby Nandireya » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:52 am

Pixie can't hook up with Scott...she's not a hot telepath...at least she hasn't been revealed to be one...yet...
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Postby Jeremus » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:31 pm

When Scott blasted Emma through the wall, Pixie was on the other side where she teleported to get away from "the debris".......but not soon enough! Somehow, Emma's last thought was blasted into the dark side of Pixie's half-brain and when she cast the spell to teleport, the two combined into one entity.....Meganemma, the White Pixie Witch! Now she can walk around in lingerie and read minds. (Scott will just love those little wings!) :smirk
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Postby the_lone_bamf » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:01 pm

Solid concept, name needs work. Megemma? MEGAMMA. Sounds more sinister. ;)

I... I have the urge to draw this...
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:42 am

the_lone_bamf wrote:Solid concept, name needs work. Megemma? MEGAMMA. Sounds more sinister. ;)

I... I have the urge to draw this...


I thought Meg-enema was totally sinister myself.
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Postby Nandireya » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:22 am

And then the Phoenix Force decides it needs a new host...and they become Dark Megamma Phoenix! Mwa ha ha!

Okay...we've gotten a tad off-topic...oh wait...this is all about comic nerdiness...so I guess it still fits...
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Postby Saint Kurt » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:50 am

I'm sure that by 2010, Mega-Enema will have rocketed to the #1 spot.

-e
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:14 am

I would be very pleased to see a drawing of this Lone Bamf.

Truth be told... i've been writing some of my own concepts of how the story *should* be going on the side. It started as X-4 synopsis, but it slowly became "well before i fix the movies i need to fix where they come from first!"

'Cuz you know... It has to be ME who fixes it? lol :smirk
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Postby love_of_bob » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:31 am

The big shocker for me on the latest CBR "top 50 X-men" list was that Kitty Pryde rated as low as she did. After a much-hailed run written by a big-name writer in which she was the star, a big (albeit delayed and spoiled), dramatic, save-the-world "death" and now an ongoing series with Wolverine, she only rated #10??
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