Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Vaiyala » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:47 pm

Okay, so I've been re-reading through the issues of Ultimate and after reading about the Breaking Point online, I skipped straight to the second annual (I hadn't read it yet). All I can say is...wow. I literally kind of stopped and stared into space after that.

(I won't explain to save spoilers for those who ain't read it yet. :D)

But for those of you who have, what do you think? Especially of this page: Click here if you don't mind spoilers... It's sad...

[Edited on 30/3/09 by Vaiyala]
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby LIV4TheObsession » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:13 pm

Wow...I acctually haven't read that issue. Can you tell me what happened?! That's such a sad page. :bawl
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Vaiyala » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:16 pm

LIV4TheObsession wrote:Wow...I acctually haven't read that issue. Can you tell me what happened?! That's such a sad page. :bawl


Want me to send a private message? Spoiler spoilsports might kill me if I post it here. >_>
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby LIV4TheObsession » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:22 pm

I feel dumb for saying this, but how do I send a private message on this site? (I'm so friggin' bad at BB code or however you do things here. -sigh-)
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Vaiyala » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:38 pm

LIV4TheObsession wrote:I feel dumb for saying this, but how do I send a private message on this site? (I'm so friggin' bad at BB code or however you do things here. -sigh-)


:LOL No worries. You just send a u2u message (you can find it at the bottom of someone's post, where it has the PROFILE button and everything).
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Bamfing_Bob » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:40 pm

Oh, that is sad.
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby The Drastic Spastic » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:27 am

This came out like three years ago so I think you can relax about spoilers.
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Bamfing_Bob » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:31 am

but I still haven't read it! lol
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby The Drastic Spastic » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:53 am

Bamfing_Bob wrote:but I still haven't read it! lol


You read the spoiler page that was posted! Do you care about reading other spoilers? Silly boy...
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Vaiyala » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:23 pm

The Drastic Spastic wrote:This came out like three years ago so I think you can relax about spoilers.


I meant the people who haven't read it yet (like Bob :LOL). But there's much more to the story than the spoiler page so I think there's still something for him to look forward to.
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Elfdame » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:46 pm

I know a couple of us (the_lone_bamf) and I, as well as some of my fanficcer friends, hated the depiciton of "nutjob! Kurt" so much that we did our own variations, either retconning or else coming up with odd explanations for why he went from this affable kid to this berserk weirdo.

Myself, I found that particular scene very poignant, but I didn't like Ultimate X-men in general, and the whole Kurt As Loony Bin Fodder turned me off completely, so I never found out what Rogue meant by that remark -- if they ever even addressed it. Like, "You are a monster b/c they turned you into an assasination machine?" or "You are a monster because you are a teenage boy who thinks about teenage girls?" or "You are a monster because of some other reason we don't know yet?" or what?!?

The scene early on where he saves the evil guy (I forget his name, but it's one of the splash pics at the top of Scrawlers) seemed to indicate that Kurt had a good heart -- saving his enemy. But the whole "I'm miserable because nobody likes me so I'll do whatever it takes to make my mark" angle sort of ruined him for me.
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Vaiyala » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:57 pm

Elfdame wrote:I know a couple of us (the_lone_bamf) and I, as well as some of my fanficcer friends, hated the depiciton of "nutjob! Kurt" so much that we did our own variations, either retconning or else coming up with odd explanations for why he went from this affable kid to this berserk weirdo.

Myself, I found that particular scene very poignant, but I didn't like Ultimate X-men in general, and the whole Kurt As Loony Bin Fodder turned me off completely, so I never found out what Rogue meant by that remark -- if they ever even addressed it. Like, "You are a monster b/c they turned you into an assasination machine?" or "You are a monster because you are a teenage boy who thinks about teenage girls?" or "You are a monster because of some other reason we don't know yet?" or what?!?

The scene early on where he saves the evil guy (I forget his name, but it's one of the splash pics at the top of Scrawlers) seemed to indicate that Kurt had a good heart -- saving his enemy. But the whole "I'm miserable because nobody likes me so I'll do whatever it takes to make my mark" angle sort of ruined him for me.

The depiction was definitely different, I'll agree, and I can't decide whether I like it or not. On the one hand, it makes me feel sorry for him, knowing that he's so screwed up in this that even his teammates are turning against him. I really believe it was the Weapon X procedures that did it but I guess some people just don't care (*coughDazzlercough* :D). On the other hand, it's not really the way I or anyone else, for that matter, expected him to turn out. I mean, when he first made an appearence, he was a really lovable character and didn't even show signs of insanity. What happened?

And yeah, I'm still wondering that, too. Anything he's done in the past is most likely due to the Weapon X experiments (since they kidnapped him when he was really young and all) so I'm really curious as to what Rougue is talking about. Whatever it was, though, she didn't have to be so cruel. : (I hate it when the so-called good guys act like that so I'm pretty iffed about the way she spoke to him.)

I actually like UXM in all other areas other than Kurt's character. And Jean. Jean annoys me. :LOL
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Elfdame » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:13 pm

Whatever it was, though, she didn't have to be so cruel. (I hate it when the so-called good guys act like that so I'm pretty iffed about the way she spoke to him.)


Yeah, but remember, Kurt just went whacko, kidnapped their friend, and THEN tried to beat everyone's butts. Rogue's seen the bad side of the boy, PLUS whatever was in his little noggin when she absorbed him. I don't know that she was being cruel per se, only expressing disgust. Sometimes (in real life) people project their own fears onto someone else, to look at those negative feelings from a comfortable distance. She might think the whole Weapon X thing (wasn't she the one who said Kurt's behavior could make all the Weapon X-ers look nuts? been a while since I read it) has tainted her, and his bizarre behavior slammed that right in her face.

Yeah, I never put much stock in psychology either. But it's one way of looking at it.
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Vaiyala » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:30 pm

Elfdame wrote:
Whatever it was, though, she didn't have to be so cruel. (I hate it when the so-called good guys act like that so I'm pretty iffed about the way she spoke to him.)


Yeah, but remember, Kurt just went whacko, kidnapped their friend, and THEN tried to beat everyone's butts. Rogue's seen the bad side of the boy, PLUS whatever was in his little noggin when she absorbed him. I don't know that she was being cruel per se, only expressing disgust. Sometimes (in real life) people project their own fears onto someone else, to look at those negative feelings from a comfortable distance. She might think the whole Weapon X thing (wasn't she the one who said Kurt's behavior could make all the Weapon X-ers look nuts? been a while since I read it) has tainted her, and his bizarre behavior slammed that right in her face.

Yeah, I never put much stock in psychology either. But it's one way of looking at it.


True, you are right about that. Maybe "cruel" wasn't the right word to use. But she could have at least been a bit more understanding. I mean, Wolverine's a literal killing machine yet no one seems to mind that because there are times when he can control himself. He only loses that control every once in a while.

Kurt has been fine up until this point. He hasn't even shown a hint of insanity despite the Weapon X experiments. But the one time he cracks and starts attacking people (something Wolvie has done even to his friends in the past) he is discriminated against, even when the team knows he's had a rough life and went through the same horrors Logan did. That's what I don't get.

He didn't kill anyone, didn't betray anyone like Scott has done before, so why is he getting harsher treatment from the rest of the team? (Man, I go way too deep into this stuff. :LOL You'll have to forgive me for that.)

[Edited on 30/3/09 by Vaiyala]
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Trigger » Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:14 pm

As far as I'm concerned he did betray them when he took off with Dazzler. That kind of stress on the team could have just pushed Rouge over the edge. Plus, he was knocked out when she said it to him right? I'm going to say it's easier to say those kinds of things to an unconcious kurt rather than a post-berserking Wolverine.
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby the_lone_bamf » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:51 pm

Ahhh... we revisit Nutjob!Kurt with his Phantom of the Opera syndrome...
I have to say, when I first read these issues and the surrounding events- I was pretty dumbfounded. I've grown up admiring Nightcrawler, absolutely loving the character- and embarrassing as it is, he was definitely a role model for me when I was younger. So to have him going to far off the deep end (in any universe, and I do think that UXM Kurt isn't completely removed from the one we have come to grow and love- he just had a different life) and be so *hated* by his teammates- well, it really threw me. It was one of those situations where I was reading, got really upset- and then had to step back and think "Whoa, this had the power to make me really upset. Who'd have thought?"

Rogue's words on that page did make me upset... first at the character, then at the writers for being so harsh to someone I like so much (and I'll admit, I have a soft spot for the just-a-little-crazy types...) but I guess I got over it when I started to think about it from a writer's perspective. Or something. I don't know.

So do I *like* crazy Nightcrawler? Well... he's not my favorite... but I do appreciate the different take because it made me "feel something" while reading, which is hard to do- and not a reaction I get too often from boring ol' 616 events these days. UXM does seem preoccupied with DRAAAAMAAAAA... but meh, that's what it's supposed to be, right? ULTIMATE 2TALY RAD XTREME X-MANS!1!

Question is- do you prefer Insane (but in the forefront of events) Nightcrawler, or the Coping (but in the shadows with the Morlocks, you might see him in 6 months if you're lucky) version?
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Vaiyala » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:54 pm

Trigger wrote:As far as I'm concerned he did betray them when he took off with Dazzler. That kind of stress on the team could have just pushed Rouge over the edge. Plus, he was knocked out when she said it to him right? I'm going to say it's easier to say those kinds of things to an unconcious kurt rather than a post-berserking Wolverine.


:LOL at the last part.

Yes, he betrayed them (I will admit that) but I'm still sticking by my thoughts that they should have cut him some slack. Just a little, you know. He's still really young in this series so any resentment (from Dazzler, that is) shouldn't be shown. What I mean by that is, she shouldn't hold a grudge--not for too long, that is. I understand why she'd be pissed at him. I'd do the same if some crazed kid kidnapped me. But in Kurt's defense (I'm a NC fan so I have to :D) they should've gone easy on him. They could crack down if things started getting really serious. Really, he didn't physically hurt anyone. He just teleported them to random locations, after all. :P

Actually, I don't think he was unconscious. A tear was rolling down his face in the last panel.

the_lone_bamf wrote:Ahhh... we revisit Nutjob!Kurt with his Phantom of the Opera syndrome...
I have to say, when I first read these issues and the surrounding events- I was pretty dumbfounded. I've grown up admiring Nightcrawler, absolutely loving the character- and embarrassing as it is, he was definitely a role model for me when I was younger. So to have him going to far off the deep end (in any universe, and I do think that UXM Kurt isn't completely removed from the one we have come to grow and love- he just had a different life) and be so *hated* by his teammates- well, it really threw me. It was one of those situations where I was reading, got really upset- and then had to step back and think "Whoa, this had the power to make me really upset. Who'd have thought?"

Rogue's words on that page did make me upset... first at the character, then at the writers for being so harsh to someone I like so much (and I'll admit, I have a soft spot for the just-a-little-crazy types...) but I guess I got over it when I started to think about it from a writer's perspective. Or something. I don't know.

So do I *like* crazy Nightcrawler? Well... he's not my favorite... but I do appreciate the different take because it made me "feel something" while reading, which is hard to do- and not a reaction I get too often from boring ol' 616 events these days. UXM does seem preoccupied with DRAAAAMAAAAA... but meh, that's what it's supposed to be, right? ULTIMATE 2TALY RAD XTREME X-MANS!1!

Question is- do you prefer Insane (but in the forefront of events) Nightcrawler, or the Coping (but in the shadows with the Morlocks, you might see him in 6 months if you're lucky) version?


:) Definitely agree with everything you've said here. And it made me just as upset (something I would have never expected from a comic, even one with a story centered around Kurt). I tried looking at Rogue's words from the writer's perspective but I couldn't because see, here's the thing... Rogue is being hypocritical in a sense when she says "I know what kind of monster you are."

Xavier's mutant team is supposed to be supportive of each other through the good and bad, first of all, and secondly... She's made some pretty f***ed up mistakes as well. When you think about it, she doesn't have to right to say anything about him. Kurt was experimented on, had things done to his mind before he was even fifteen. Rogue has been a traitor several times and this was of her own free will. Therefore, she can't say a thing about Kurt, acting as if she's never done "monstrous" things before. (Does anyone get what I'm trying to say? I kind of have a hard time getting my words straight. :shame )

I prefer insane Nightcrawler in this situation, personally. It's his behavior--behavior he really has no complete control over--that shows his perfect teammates can be pushed to the brink along with any human just by being in the face of someone with a mental illness. Sad, really. :ooh:

[Edited on 30/3/09 by Vaiyala]
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby The Drastic Spastic » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:28 am

Elfdame wrote:
The scene early on where he saves the evil guy (I forget his name, but it's one of the splash pics at the top of Scrawlers) seemed to indicate that Kurt had a good heart -- saving his enemy.


lol he wasn't saving him he was stealing his snowmobile. :P

I liked nutty Kurt because at least it was interesting. I liked neck-snapping Morlock Kurt even more.
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby love_of_bob » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:28 am

The Drastic Spastic wrote:
Elfdame wrote:
The scene early on where he saves the evil guy (I forget his name, but it's one of the splash pics at the top of Scrawlers) seemed to indicate that Kurt had a good heart -- saving his enemy.


lol he wasn't saving him he was stealing his snowmobile. :P


I think what is referred to is after he and the X-men break out of the Weapon X facility and he stops one of the X-men from frying...what was his name? Wraith?...in the helicopter. Said bad guy then almost blows Kurt's brains out in gratitude.
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Vaiyala » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:59 am

love_of_bob wrote:
The Drastic Spastic wrote:
Elfdame wrote:
The scene early on where he saves the evil guy (I forget his name, but it's one of the splash pics at the top of Scrawlers) seemed to indicate that Kurt had a good heart -- saving his enemy.


lol he wasn't saving him he was stealing his snowmobile. :P


I think what is referred to is after he and the X-men break out of the Weapon X facility and he stops one of the X-men from frying...what was his name? Wraith?...in the helicopter. Said bad guy then almost blows Kurt's brains out in gratitude.


I'm pretty sure that's the scene (and yeah, it was Wraith). Man, I hated that guy...
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Witchbrew » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:27 am

Kurt was stopping Storm from frying Wraith. Wraith then tries to blow away Kurt. Nick Fury shows up and takes out Wraith before he can shoot Kurt (Ult X-Men 12).
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Ultimate X-Men Annual #2

Postby Vaiyala » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:20 pm

Witchbrew wrote:Kurt was stopping Storm from frying Wraith. Wraith then tries to blow away Kurt. Nick Fury shows up and takes out Wraith before he can shoot Kurt (Ult X-Men 12).


Yeah, and then Yuri blames Storm for killing him, right?
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