Nightcrawler Origins

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Nightcrawler Origins

Postby DreadPirateBluetail » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:10 pm

I don't mind. To me, it's always seemed that his fuzz was so fine (and soft:D?) that it wouldn't necessarily appear much different than blue skin.
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Postby deadpixiedust » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:13 pm

I don't honesty remember anyone drawing him fuzzy but I do remember they would add some fuzz in close-ups. Of course I could be mistaken. ;)
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Postby DreadPirateBluetail » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:33 pm

Yes, the Austen/Kerschl X-2 prequel had fuzz sometimes....

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And sometimes not so much...

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Postby deadpixiedust » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:35 pm

Ah yes and I think Alan did that too ocassionally... on the chin. That seems a popular place for it. As it was mentioned. :)
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:16 pm

In that same shot though, wasn't there some on the tail? Or his elbow??
Point is, the guy is blue AND fuzzy. Still... I'm nitpicking. It was fantastic.
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Postby deadpixiedust » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:05 pm

LOL, not nitpicking, the questions been asked before as to why it's not drawn if he has it. Other characters with hair are. ;)
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Postby Angelique » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:47 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I dunno if I agree that he was gorgeous. He looked GREAT but...

do the artists keep forgetting he's fuzzy? I swear Austen's X-2 Prequel was the last time I saw the dude with a fuzzy chin, arm, tail, ANYTHING. He always just looks blue-skinned, not blue-furred.


He's fuzzy like velvet, not furry like Beast.
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:39 am

You would think sometimes it would stand up though, with some friction or something....
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Postby Garble » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:59 pm

This is the biggest ret-conning I've ever seen.

This is like Nightcrawler's origin condensed to a twitter post, run through multiple language-translating engines, then spead-read to someone just before they wrote this.

If you did this to Superman's origin, he'd have been born on an asteroid that crash landed on the roof of the Daily Planet building.
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:37 am

You're saying that you believe it's been shortened? Possibly over-simplified?

I can see that. I'll admit I was expecting more flash-and-bang. If they're trying to dupe us into thinking Kurt is going to die it's reasonable to assume they're trying to make it "short-and-sweet" for obvious reasons. However; if he is actually dying, they're probably trying to simplify his past so that they can intergrade him into the pile of deceased easier, thus making it that much harder to really bring him back. Notice no (or little) mention of his devil like appearance, upbringing, Magik, or even Mephistopheles. Seems like they're trying to take all the "Magic" out.

[Edited on 24/4/10 by Ult_Sm86]
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Postby Garble » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:38 pm

Not just shortened or over-simplified, but fundamentally changed.

Before he had a family and friends. Before he had a career that he loved. He had a life with a variety of experiences that lead him to see that despite a lot of hatred and suffering in the world, there is also love and joy. He left the circus only when the circus changed and he decided it was time to move on.

Now, he spent his entire life either performing under bane of death (with no joy, a look in his eyes that suggests he's dead inside) or drugged out of his mind inside a cage. He was a helpless slave, with no happiness or love besides his long suffering fake mother telling him lies while he lay there drooling.

This wasn't just filling in the gaps left by previous origin stories or tweaking inconsistencies. This was a complete re-write that leaves no room for previous elements. (Unless every flash back to his origin he's ever had in the comics are now just drug-induced hallucinations.)
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Postby Dedicatedfollower467 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:41 pm

I've always wondered how they would be able to take Kurt's gentle and loving nature and turn it into something dark for the new age we live in where angst is a money-maker.

Seems to me (granted, I haven't read the origin comic yet) that giving him an origin in which there was no joy or happiness could easily turn him just as dark as Wolverine.

I'm just sayin'.
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Postby Karl » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:26 pm

Guess I'm in the minority as far as liking the recently retconned version of Kurt's past better than many of the earlier ones. I much prefer characters who go through agonizing experiences and yet manage to survive without being turned into maniacs or monsters, but instead become heroes despite everything. Happy-go-lucky and totally cheerful isn't the way I see Kurt, although I know he has often been presented that way, and loved by his fans for those very qualities.
I found the part where Margali is telling him stories of his idealized past, even though he knows full well that they are lies, to be absolutely heart-breaking. I can well understand how a person who is being dreadfully mistreated may seek relief by retreating into fantasy, if he can find joy nowhere else. Heck, I've used fantasies to get through bad times myself, and even my worst times were never anywhere near as awful as Kurt's.
Yes, this version does contradict or ignore much of what has been previously written. But how is that different from any of the other issues that have rewritten entire chunks of all of the X-Men's past over the years that the comics have been coming out? I sometimes think there's no way to make any of it consistent unless all of our heroes have multiple personality disorder!

To change the subject to another comic that came out recently, has anyone else read Wolverine Origins #46, subtitled Reckoning -- Prologue? Kurt plays a big part in this one, since it's about Logan telling him of a terrible incident from his past. Yes, the main part of the story deals with this incident, but it goes back and forth between that and Kurt's responses to what he's hearing, including some very intense interactions between the two of them. On top of all that, the drawings of Kurt are among the best I've seen so far, IMO.
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Wed May 05, 2010 2:11 am

Wow, and I thought the book with almost the same title that came out in the 90s was bad!!

To be fair though, I laughed my ass off when that guy suggested selling him to a taxidermist. Then there's a fire, for no apparent reason other than, as the book states: "there is always fire". I couldn't stand to read any more though I quickly flipped through the religious indoctrination of a helpless child, the circus owner finding him... Prof X? Wha...? Here? Now? What the shit, man? What the shit?

I seriously wish I hadn't looked at it. I feel personally offended by how terrible it is. Not disappointed, not :rolleyes, but actually offended. Like my pet just died and then someone made a nasty joke about it right in front of me.
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Postby Elfdame » Wed May 05, 2010 3:10 am

Taxidermist? That sounds like the Li'l Kurt cartoons by Shadowscrawl. Guess I'm glad I missed this one too.
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Postby love_of_bob » Wed May 05, 2010 6:08 am

The Drastic Spastic wrote:Then there's a fire, for no apparent reason other than, as the book states: "there is always fire".


I think the implication was that Margali started the fire, or told one of her kids to do it.
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Postby Diablo » Wed May 05, 2010 6:43 am

Worst version of his origin ever.

Nightcrawler is reduced to being a victim and a religious man.

Stupid story.

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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Wed May 05, 2010 7:10 am

love_of_bob wrote:
The Drastic Spastic wrote:Then there's a fire, for no apparent reason other than, as the book states: "there is always fire".


I think the implication was that Margali started the fire, or told one of her kids to do it.


Why? To make a big light so the bad guys could find him? Brilliant plan, lady.
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Postby love_of_bob » Wed May 05, 2010 8:49 pm

The Drastic Spastic wrote:
love_of_bob wrote:
The Drastic Spastic wrote:Then there's a fire, for no apparent reason other than, as the book states: "there is always fire".


I think the implication was that Margali started the fire, or told one of her kids to do it.


Why? To make a big light so the bad guys could find him? Brilliant plan, lady.


She was probably hoping that they'd be too distracted putting out the fire to notice him leaving.
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Postby Cyntosis » Wed May 05, 2010 9:08 pm

love_of_bob wrote:
The Drastic Spastic wrote:Then there's a fire, for no apparent reason other than, as the book states: "there is always fire".


I think the implication was that Margali started the fire, or told one of her kids to do it.


I thought Kurt knocked a torch over into a tent.
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Postby Garble » Sat May 15, 2010 1:13 pm

It's always a sign of great storytelling when the readers have to speculate where a giant plot device came from.
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Postby kladyelf » Sun May 16, 2010 8:55 am

*sigh*

You know that issue has yet (if ever) to get to where i live in the land of Oz, and i have to say it doesn't sound good...

However, I would like to point out that a good, positive origins issue can and has been done, and i actually *own* said issue (i'm just too lazy to go dig it out :D) it was part of a selection of origins issues for different X-men characters.

While it didn't touch on the faith bit so much, although there were hints in background art. But it stuck to the traditional (ie: happy accepted childhood) story with a few bits and pieces there as well to show "yes the world hates and fears mutants" - which IMO sounds like the reason for the retcon of Nighty's happy childhood.

The issue i own could have been updated slightly (eg: changing the wooden carts for trucks and the updating of Winzeldorf - or explaining it away as an olde-worlde tourist attraction) and still have made a passable origin issue for the elf.


*sigh*

It was released in the late 90's early 00's - does anyone know the issue i'm talking about? I have no idea where it is now...
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Postby NachtcGleiskette » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:23 pm

This issue was horrible. It was an unnecessary retelling of his origin story that deleted major plot points and replaced them with nothing. I don't know if you can call it a retcon, only because I'm not sure Marvel will consider this his new origin, but it rewrote for the worse.

What I find especially odd is that it's not as if Nightcrawler's origin has not been mentioned in decades, and it needed a refresher. There was a massive arc of his solo some 7ish years ago that dealt with Stefan and the whole demon children debacle. But suddenly, this is all wiped clean and we have Kurt running away as Margali cowers from the man in charge (Margali doesn't fear anyone).

It was as if the writer had no idea who Nightcrawler is and had never read his story. Like they grabbed an intern and handed him a sheet of paper with a few bullet points and said have at it. Just poorly done all around.
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Postby Karl » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:51 pm

If I remember correctly, that solo series referred to by Kladyelf is "The Winding Way", which dealt with quite a bit of magical stuff.
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Postby Indigo_Lady » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:39 pm

Karl, I think what was being discussed was the latest "Origins" single issue. I only recently got a hold of this through Ebay, and I was really disappointed. I know maybe they were attempting to untwist a back story that had gotten so convoluted it was hard to follow, but it left me feeling really cold.

I'd love it as much as anyone if that whole horrible Draco business were reconnected completely, but it makes me wonder what plans the movie writers might have if there is a sequel to "X-Men First Class". I haven't seen the movie yet, but from what I've heard, Azzy is merely a Russian mutant. That would suit me much more than Kurt being the son of a mutant that set himself up as Satan. :yech
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