Nightcrawler Origins

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Nightcrawler Origins

Postby Karl » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:17 pm

Indigo_Lady,
My recent post referred to Kladyelf's request for info about the older origins series that she mentioned. It sounds to me like "The Winding Way", which is available in trade paperback.
I already posted my opinion of the recent series further up on this page, on 4/28.

I agree with you about the Draco arc. Kurt works best as a mutant, not as the son of a demon.

I have seen First Class and recommend it highly. It does a great job of illustrating the basic conflict between Magneto's ideas and Prof. Xavier's. Azazel is merely a red mutant having with no connection with the young Mystique, thank heavens!
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Postby NachtcGleiskette » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:42 pm

Indigo_Lady wrote:Karl, I think what was being discussed was the latest "Origins" single issue. I only recently got a hold of this through Ebay, and I was really disappointed. I know maybe they were attempting to untwist a back story that had gotten so convoluted it was hard to follow, but it left me feeling really cold.

I'd love it as much as anyone if that whole horrible Draco business were reconnected completely, but it makes me wonder what plans the movie writers might have if there is a sequel to "X-Men First Class". I haven't seen the movie yet, but from what I've heard, Azzy is merely a Russian mutant. That would suit me much more than Kurt being the son of a mutant that set himself up as Satan. :yech


Of all the things that needed a retcon, The Draco is #1. But this didn't touch on that part of Kurt's history, it retconned the good stuff! It took away his happy circus life and created this super cliche emo background. Lame.

I highly recommend seeing First Class. I was not looking forward to Azazel in this movie, but he's an awesome character. They ignore all the Draco bs completely and just make him a mutant. It's very good.
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Postby Karl » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:16 pm

NachtcGleiskette,
Being the perverse sort of person that I am, Kurt's happy circus life was one thing that did not please me, so I didn't miss it at all. It makes more sense to me that someone like Kurt would have ended up as a freak in a sideshow, rather than a valuable and respected performer, at least as a small child. Perhaps later on, as he grew up, he might have had a chance to learn to perform and thus prove himself useful in other ways. I can't speak for European circuses, but the American ones were not always places of sweetness and light, with benevolent and caring owners.
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Postby littlebamf » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:03 pm

But by the same token, as unbelievable as the whole happy life was, it did help shape him into the dashing swashbuckler and became a defining quality of his. I'm pretty sure his life wouldn't have been that perfect, but it is possible to be happy despite hardships and really, he had it difficult as it was without the whole sideshow aspect. Being the star performer had a bittersweet side as well, as people assumed he was in a costume and not truly blue and fuzzy. As for how he was allowed to be the star, well its a case of the money. If someone shows a natural talent for something, no matter how they look, then those who can make money bringing it to the public will do so. Kurt could pull off stunts that some acrobats could probably only imagine. Sure, the whole circus backstory can be a bit fairy tale but it depends how you look on it and I'd certainly take it over the Draco any day.
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Postby Karl » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:42 pm

I don't think I've run across anyone as yet who actually liked the Draco story. I'd take just about anything over that. It's just not what the entire X-Men series is about. It's supposed to deal with mutants, not devils and demons. And I don't care if the writer did try to make devils a form of early mutants. I'd have been just as glad if all the magic stuff wasn't part of the series either.

As for Kurt's origins, I simply find tragic characters more interesting than basically happy characters who led basically happy lives. That's just how I am.
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Postby NachtcGleiskette » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:35 am

Karl wrote:As for Kurt's origins, I simply find tragic characters more interesting than basically happy characters who led basically happy lives. That's just how I am.


I think what makes Kurt so special is that he managed to beat the odds to have a happy life. And it's more than just everything that happened to him was rainbows and kittens - he was certainly dealt some shitty hands. But his outlook on life let him keep living it in positivity, which is huge. A guy who should probably have an enormous chip on his shoulder and hate the world for the life he was given is actually pretty happy.

I don't mind characters having dark pasts, but I don't enjoy every character having a dark past, and I certainly don't want a dark past applied to a character that didn't have it before. Not everyone has to be brooding and emo.
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Postby Wahnsinn » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:16 am

Not to defend the sheer awfulness that was the Draco, but I'm pretty sure Azazel isn't supposed to be an actual demon. He's supposed to be a long-lived mutant who was mistaken for a demon in biblical times, and he used that misconception to his advantage. That silly idea was so poorly conveyed that even later writers and editors can't keep it straight. :doh!
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:35 am

Chuck Austen wanted it to be a Demon & I get the impression his message wasn't made clear after the editors muddled it up when they saw what Chuck was actually trying to do. That's always been my impression.


Also, for a look at a talented version of Kurt who is part of the circus but still looked down on for being a freak/mutant and treated poorly because of it, read Weapon X Noir: Mark of Cain. I'm going to re-read it myself again soon being I've already forgotten the details, but it was a very clever/fun read. And Kurt is the central character (for the most part).


[Edited on 6/9/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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Postby NachtcGleiskette » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:49 pm

Azazel was never intended to be a demon. He was intended to be an immortal mutant who's kind were what biblical demons were based on. Chuck Austen never intended Azazel to be a demon. He was always just supposed to be an ancient mutant, but with the story being shortened (seriously, it was supposed to be longer) and whatever else, that wasn't communicated clearly enough for most readers. (Although, it was communicated.)
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Postby Karl » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:51 pm

I read Mark of Cain and absolutely couldn't stand it to the point that I got rid of the comic.

Yes, I know the silly bit about demons being only ancient mutants, but that seemed to me to do nothing more than cheapen the concept of both mutants and demons both.
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:53 pm

Well not every comic is for everyone. I liked the espionage aspect, I liked the art, and I thought it was a clever way of writing a version of Kurt we had never seen before.
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Postby Karl » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:36 pm

Guess it's just a case of different strokes for different folks, which is fine.
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