Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby Nikky G » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:43 pm

Angelique wrote:I liked Logan better not as a bitter atheist, but a grumpy skeptic. Still, color me a bit harder to please. I felt Kurt came across as a bit too preachy, but I suppose it was felt that memories of them just pal-ing around didn't add to the story, or perhaps more flashbacks of them playing practical jokes on each other wouldn't contribute.

Yeah, I kinda felt the same way. I was having serious flashbacks to the original X-Men TV show's "Nightcrawler" episode (which wasn't terrible, just not like the comics). That line where Kurt says: "You're killing yourself into hell!" kinda threw me. But now that I think about it, it was probably just thrown in as foreshadowing for the Wolverine #1, "Wolverine Goes to Hell." :shrug
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:28 am

I'm afraid, no matter how you string it, Kurt's character (whether we were for it or not) developed into the sole religious (not just spiritual) figure of the X-Men, and thus every writer who took him on has felt obligated to treat him as such.

Honestly? I thought they could've done a lot worse. It was pretty balanced. I'll give you that though NikkyG, that's the line that had me pause for a moment too--but it's one line in a shmorgasborg of dialogue, the rest of which I have no problems with. It wasn't so unsettling that it derailed the entire book for me.
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby Wahnsinn » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:23 pm

Kurt's preaching at Logan bugged me a little, too. The issue was nice, but that aspect didn't feel terribly authentic. Rarely was Kurt shown as that evangelistic in the past, especially with Wolverine.

It also bugged me because Kurt's German. While I haven't lived in Germany all that long, I have yet to encounter a German who will push the issue of religion when they know a person isn't interested. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses who knocked on my door backed off right away, unlike the ones I encountered in the States. People just don't seem to do that kind of proselytizing here.
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby Slarti » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:06 pm

Read it. Yes, he came off as preachy, but that was the point of the story -- to leave a message for Logan. So, I didn't much mind.

Logan remembering him as his best friend, who is willing to 'torture' him from the grave to make a point, was the real thrust of the story and I thought it was effective.

The art bugged me more than most anything.

So, overall, not bad at all.
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby neling4 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:16 am

I liked the art. It was gritty...like Logan, and I thought the expressions were "spot on". The art fit the story. As much as I love Choi's art, for example, it would not have felt right here. The story needed the humor and grittiness of Mr. Gianfelice's style.
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby the_lone_bamf » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:46 am

While I would be in line with those who say that Kurt came across as being a little preachy- I more or less just chalked it up to the fact that after his friend's death, Logan would be more likely to think about the talks they had about one's soul and the afterlife more than anything. Also, I think the story did a good job of having Kurt (or at least Logan's memories of him) sort of mellow out. While to begin with he was very specific about God and one's immortal soul, towards the end he is clearly content with Logan knowing that he is there to talk and the topic is open- but he doesn't have to bring it up at every instance (like while donating the supplies).

But overall, thanks very much for the rec. I had sort of been too depressed to look into Marvel titles lately (also, I have a hard time keeping track of all the different series and who is going to be in what etc.) and this was a satisfying read that probably provided me with a little closure as far as still being bummed about the whole "your hero of the last 15 years just bit the dust" thing. :)
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby neling4 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:03 pm

I totally agree with the above post. I would also like to point out that while Kurt has a history of being a bit "preachy", if you like to call it that, with Logan (and others), it is born out of his deep love and concern for his friend(s).

Here is a list of some issues in particular which come to mind: UXM #106, page 11, UXM#140, page 27, UXM #165, page 15?, Wolverine '95, and the King-Size X-Men Annual #5, OU, LA, LA..BADOON!: page 25?, Kurt to Logan, “I cannot stop you, but I can..and will..make you aware of what you do, and of how serious it is. The taking of a life…ANY life, no matter how justified..is not a casual thing. It should never be treated lightly.â€
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby Nikky G » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:04 am

Yeah, if you assume that these instances in the book were the only times he brought up religion during the whole time Kurt and Logan knew each other, then it's really not that bad. It just seemed like more since it was all in one place.

I think I remember seeing that quote somewhere, neling, and I felt that was a far better way to address the morality of taking a life than the "you'll go to hell for it" kind of deal. It sounded more like something a Catholic would say, since he brings up the point that killing is sometimes justified and he doesn't cast any particular judgement on Logan.

Overall, I liked the book and I liked the art. The ending had me tearing up. The line where Kurt tells logan they'll see Jean again and Logan's saying dead is dead cracks me up. How many times has it been that Jean's been "dead" and came back now? :LOL
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby The Drastic Spastic » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:47 am

Another preachy Kurt story? You don't say. What a surprise.
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby Wahnsinn » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:15 am

“I cannot stop you, but I can..and will..make you aware of what you do, and of how serious it is. The taking of a life…ANY life, no matter how justified..is not a casual thing. It should never be treated lightly.â€
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby deadpixiedust » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:42 pm

I did not like this issue at all, if I did not know Kurt this would be an awesome issue but alas he was much too preachy. He reminded me of a Jehovahs Witness. Also, Logan did not find out Kurt was into god until much later. I did not get that they were friends, but more like Logans priest. What I find strange is people who were attacking Claremont on the boards years ago about the Priest thing don't have a problem with it. Claremont never made him this preachy. This issue did not sit well with me, It was most likely just a lead in anyway for Logan's arch. I much prefered Logins goodbye to Kurt in 'Origins.' Jason Aaron is a fine writer I just dont like his idea of who Kurt is. ;)
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Nightcrawler Returns -- More Or Less

Postby Blob55 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:29 pm

Nightcrawler was in the recent Taco Bell promo X-Men issue!
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