An Argument For Argument's Sake: Why It Works That Kurt Is D

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An Argument For Argument's Sake: Why It Works That Kurt Is D

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:23 am

I dunno... dark, for lack of a better word, and light not being it. LOL!

I'm pretty sure the avenue they'll bring him back in is one of a harbinger of justice, or one who seeks to change the corruption of the team and guide it back into the light.... from the shadows.

That is to say, that's the most INTRIGUING venue, to attract this generations readers! ;)
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An Argument For Argument's Sake: Why It Works That Kurt Is D

Postby Matary » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:53 pm

I agree with the concensus that, IF they bring him back, they should return him to a pivotal role.

The route writers are going now really reminds me of a "resistance is futile you will be assimilated" situation. Everyone is dark and nasty with no deep thoughts or moral compass. The few that stuck in the cogs have been removed or killed. What is the value of having no balance to the characters?

It is difficult to create 3 diminsional characters in a comic book setting to start with. When you remove personality differences, it makes the remaining cast even more flat.

In my opinion, Claremont still reigns supreme on his version of Nightcrawler, though I really did like Robertson's version of him as well.

Are x-writers really so blind to the variations of their fan base by now? It really is no longer just a mass of pre-pubescent or teen males any longer, especially not since the success of the films. While scantily clad buxom tough female characters, and kick-yer-arse males might appeal to that target group, many of the rest of us are left dry --and have put down our subscriptions.

I'm an OLD x-fan. I started reading the book (and several of its off-shoots) in the early 80's and did so consistently until a few months ago. Now, if you read one of the series, you've read them all. There is no diversity. It is sad to see.
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An Argument For Argument's Sake: Why It Works That Kurt Is D

Postby Angelique » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:04 pm

Ult, correct me if I'm mistaken, but it seems you equate "light" with fluffy, funny, and not weighty.

I'm thinking of it as much more like a side of The Force.
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Postby Matary » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:46 pm

Angelique wrote:Ult, correct me if I'm mistaken, but it seems you equate "light" with fluffy, funny, and not weighty.

I'm thinking of it as much more like a side of The Force.


Would you mind elaborating Angelique?
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Postby Angelique » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:25 pm

Matary wrote:
Angelique wrote:Ult, correct me if I'm mistaken, but it seems you equate "light" with fluffy, funny, and not weighty.

I'm thinking of it as much more like a side of The Force.


Would you mind elaborating Angelique?


Pardon the use of a Star Wars simile- though Nightcrawler confessed back it the day to being a huge Star Wars fan.

The Force has the Light Side, the Dark Side, and proponents on each side.

The Light Side is represented by the Jedi- powerful, honor-bound folks devoted to the cause of goodness, peace, freedom, and so forth, who can kick serious butt when need be. Nightcrawler, whether he's kicking butt or not, should so totally be written as if he's a Jedi.

The Dark Side is probably best represented by a power-hungre Emporer and an ex-Jedi who, with only what he thought were the best of intentions for those dear to him, committed a host of atrocities. I wish it were otherwise, but Cyclops has become far too much like Darth Vader lately.
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Postby Matary » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:38 pm

Angelique wrote:
Matary wrote:
Angelique wrote:Ult, correct me if I'm mistaken, but it seems you equate "light" with fluffy, funny, and not weighty.

I'm thinking of it as much more like a side of The Force.


Would you mind elaborating Angelique?


Pardon the use of a Star Wars simile- though Nightcrawler confessed back it the day to being a huge Star Wars fan.

The Force has the Light Side, the Dark Side, and proponents on each side.

The Light Side is represented by the Jedi- powerful, honor-bound folks devoted to the cause of goodness, peace, freedom, and so forth, who can kick serious butt when need be. Nightcrawler, whether he's kicking butt or not, should so totally be written as if he's a Jedi.

The Dark Side is probably best represented by a power-hungre Emporer and an ex-Jedi who, with only what he thought were the best of intentions for those dear to him, committed a host of atrocities. I wish it were otherwise, but Cyclops has become far too much like Darth Vader lately.


I tend to agree with this, yes.

Seems it would make much more interesting reading to have the conflict of the two sides, rather than just have one as dominant.
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Postby neling4 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:34 pm

Angelique wrote: Light can be bad-ass too.


Excalibur? First series, of course.


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An Argument For Argument's Sake: Why It Works That Kurt Is Dead...

Postby deadpixiedust » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:12 am

Matary wrote:I agree with the concensus that, IF they bring him back, they should return him to a pivotal role.

The route writers are going now really reminds me of a "resistance is futile you will be assimilated" situation. Everyone is dark and nasty with no deep thoughts or moral compass. The few that stuck in the cogs have been removed or killed. What is the value of having no balance to the characters?

It is difficult to create 3 diminsional characters in a comic book setting to start with. When you remove personality differences, it makes the remaining cast even more flat.

In my opinion, Claremont still reigns supreme on his version of Nightcrawler, though I really did like Robertson's version of him as well.

Are x-writers really so blind to the variations of their fan base by now? It really is no longer just a mass of pre-pubescent or teen males any longer, especially not since the success of the films. While scantily clad buxom tough female characters, and kick-yer-arse males might appeal to that target group, many of the rest of us are left dry --and have put down our subscriptions.

I'm an OLD x-fan. I started reading the book (and several of its off-shoots) in the early 80's and did so consistently until a few months ago. Now, if you read one of the series, you've read them all. There is no diversity. It is sad to see.


This is what I have been arguing for months on other forums. The whole team is made up of "dark, edgy" characters. They remind me more of pissy teens than adults. We need more personality variation for this to be entertaining. The most successful TV shows have this. It makes perfect sense. I'm not a teenager anymore, and even then I liked variation.

[Edited on 14/1/11 by deadpixiedust]
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:18 am



Pardon the use of a Star Wars simile- though Nightcrawler confessed back it the day to being a huge Star Wars fan.

The Force has the Light Side, the Dark Side, and proponents on each side.

The Light Side is represented by the Jedi- powerful, honor-bound folks devoted to the cause of goodness, peace, freedom, and so forth, who can kick serious butt when need be. Nightcrawler, whether he's kicking butt or not, should so totally be written as if he's a Jedi.

The Dark Side is probably best represented by a power-hungre Emporer and an ex-Jedi who, with only what he thought were the best of intentions for those dear to him, committed a host of atrocities. I wish it were otherwise, but Cyclops has become far too much like Darth Vader lately.


I really hate to go so wildly :offtopic on this one, but I can't resist.

The Dark side is completely based on perspective. In Vader's mind, (Anakin's really), he had been in the right, and was always right, until he realized what it would cost him (the loss of his Son, and probably eventually his daughter). The Dark Side of the force is tempting because it gives you what you want, but people like Mace Windu, who tame the Dark Side, and use it for forces of "good", create a light out of it.

That's how I've always imagined Kurt. SOmeone who takes the dark and makes it good.
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Postby Angelique » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:24 am

I don't know. The Dark Side got Darth Vader with an "ends justify the means" kind of ethic. Totally Cyclops.
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Postby Ult_Sm86 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:55 am

I think Kurt breaking up the x-Force by using some tactics not always associated to him would be a pretty good strategy.
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