AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser Image

All Nightcrawler, all the time! THE place to discuss everyone's favorite fuzzy elf in all his various incarnations!

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Brimstone Elf » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:25 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:
Well, I'm keeping close tabs on Remender's portrayal of Darkholme. Up until UXF #22 the focus was on showing how different he is than Kurt Wagner. The last issue brings out a point of similarity. I still enjoy the novelty of the character, though I miss the "real" Nightcrawler. I will be utterly disgusted if they try and morph Darkholme into Wagner, however.


I agree...I do not want to see a morphing of any sort. :mad

I'm in agreement that they pulled Darkholme in over Kurt Wagner to work around creator rights, amongst other things. There was also the issue with inconsistent writers and a mind-bogglingly convoluted backstory. Darkholme was a fast easy reboot of the character, which did in fact need something at the time. Nightcrawler had been written into mediocrity since the conclusion of his solo series. What I don't agree with is replacing him.


Do you think because of this that maybe instead of a "morphing"...maybe a "merging" instead of the Wagner/Darkholme? Maybe this way, Wagner's spirit could come back from the dead...merge with Darkholme's body...and then Wagner's great personality could dominate. :smirk

You know what the crazy thing is? Because Kurt even existed in AoA, forget his last name or upbringing, but his mere conception alone, implies their origins have to be nearly the same. Nightcrawler (Wagner) had been written into a corner and left there, Darkholme is going to bring some interest in the character back. This will probably be similar to the hardcore Silver Age Flash fans vs the Wally West Flash fan. Or Hal & Kyle debates. Eventually, people will deal with it, (I hope) but to me, Darkholme's here for a good long while. And for now, I've been nothing short of impressed with Remender's handeling of the character.


Agree and disagree. I'm a huge GL fan...but there are differences between Hal & Kyle (the good & bad)...differences because they are two different people. Wagner and Darkholme are the same person (to me)...just from a different reality...with different upbringing. Like twins adopted at birth by separate families...one raised totally different than the other. Or two clones created by Sinister...one raised by him to be a mercenary...while the other was raised by a Starjammer. Now I'm rambling. I don't want to accept a copy over the original. ;)
User avatar
Brimstone Elf
Lubber
Lubber
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:26 am

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Brimstone Elf » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:28 am

Sorry...part of my reply was in your quote.
User avatar
Brimstone Elf
Lubber
Lubber
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:26 am

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:32 am

Like I said, if he was a copy it'd be different. I dont' think he's meant to be, 'nor is he meant to be a replacement.

He is, in fact, a perversion of what Wagner was, or what we know him as. Just because our reality of who Kurt can be is what we enjoy most, doesn't make his reality any less important or relevant to him. The suffering and loss made him who he is adn he's not going to forget that. But that doesn't mean he can't make new friend and learn to take life with more stride from the X-Crew of our 616 canon.

In all honesty, a version of Nightcrawler that enjoys a fight instead of bitches about it the whole time is much more fun for me to read. That's why I read Excalibur, anyways.
User avatar
Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
 
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Brimstone Elf » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:03 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:He is, in fact, a perversion of what Wagner was, or what we know him as. Just because our reality of who Kurt can be is what we enjoy most, doesn't make his reality any less important or relevant to him. The suffering and loss made him who he is adn he's not going to forget that. But that doesn't mean he can't make new friend and learn to take life with more stride from the X-Crew of our 616 canon.

In all honesty, a version of Nightcrawler that enjoys a fight instead of bitches about it the whole time is much more fun for me to read. That's why I read Excalibur, anyways.


I agree that Darkholme could grow and change with the X-Crew while in 616...and that could be interesting. But I'd rather see Wagner return...grow and change.

I very much agree about Wagner in Excalibur. I guess Wagner has/had a little bit of Darkholme in him. So it makes sense that the two are similar even though they were "raised" in different worlds. I still would rather have Wagner. ;)
User avatar
Brimstone Elf
Lubber
Lubber
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:26 am

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:25 am

No one's arguing that Wagner is inferior to Darkholme. I agree, wholeheartedly, that the Excalibur version of Nightcrawler is always preferred.

But as it stands, the way things are simply dictate that right now Darkholme is the best we'll get and we may as well sit back and let them try to do the best they can with him. They wouldn't put him in the story unless they had a story to tell with him. I am very looking forward to it.
User avatar
Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
 
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Sundown » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:22 am

Angelique wrote:Nope. I don't see how anyone who could blithely say stuff about places to be and people to kill could possible be the same person as Kurt Wagner.


Well, it depends on your definition of "same person". Their genetic potential is the same. The evolving story of Darkhölme vs. Wagner is one of nature vs. nurture. It is essentially asking, is a sociopath born or created? The same subject matter is being touched on with the development of Genesis(the child Apocalypse) in the Wolverine and the X-Men title.
(Just because I love psychological discussions and it is my field of choice, I'm throwing this out.) If you take the same man and shape him in two completely opposite environments, what does the genetic potential become? He may be a basic extroverted, attention seeking personality type who has strong emotional reactions to life scenerios but a need to hide the core self.
In a nurturing, relatively safe environment within a consistent family structure, where he is exposed to many people and no extremes of trauma during development, he might develop into a gregarious performer-at-heart, confident or at least comfortable in his own skin and able to empathize with those around him, showing an overall compassionate nature. The need to hide the core self might be couched in showmanship, flare for the dramatic or playing the clown. In other words, Kurt Wagner.
In a hostile, isolated environment with a possibly violent or unstable parental figure and filled with trauma, the same potential might take a different direction. The extroverted attention seeker might still "show off", but the violence surrounding his life might shape what he did to gain attention or have confidence in, especially seeking approval of the single other person in his life in formative years. Isolation and an unpredictable environment might preclude the development of normal empathy. Protecting the core self might be more along the lines of a harsh or callous personality shown to the world as a whole....so Kurt Darkhölme.

Angelique wrote:I also think killing off Wagner in the first place was utterly unnecessary. Wagner was not written into a corner he couldn't have just as easily been written out of until he was killed off. He's in a deeper corner now, as death is a bit more difficult to decently reverse than any other kind of baggage. (Yes, I know I'm talking about comic books, but I honestly think the best way to handle comic book death is to avoid it - especially if you need to keep the character in use to maintain the trademark and fulfill any related legal agreements.)


I agree, it just apparently took more effort than the creative team was willing to expend. :( All they really had to do was pull back out the character development from the old solo series and go with that.
User avatar
Sundown
Shoulder Parrot
Shoulder Parrot
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Dungarvan, Ireland

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Brimstone Elf » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:47 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote:No one's arguing that Wagner is inferior to Darkholme. I agree, wholeheartedly, that the Excalibur version of Nightcrawler is always preferred.

But as it stands, the way things are simply dictate that right now Darkholme is the best we'll get and we may as well sit back and let them try to do the best they can with him. They wouldn't put him in the story unless they had a story to tell with him. I am very looking forward to it.


I hope you're correct....I hope they have a story...a good story. Maybe we should contact them...and give them some ideas. :D
User avatar
Brimstone Elf
Lubber
Lubber
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:26 am

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Brimstone Elf » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:59 pm

Sundown wrote:
Angelique wrote: All they really had to do was pull back out the character development from the old solo series and go with that.


One can only hope they read this...and go with it. I loved the development that was started...and I hope that direction will be touched on again.

Maybe a mini-series with Wagner escaping from Mephisto's Relm...punching him again. :D
User avatar
Brimstone Elf
Lubber
Lubber
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:26 am

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Sundown » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:06 pm

Brimstone Elf wrote:
Sundown wrote:
Angelique wrote: All they really had to do was pull back out the character development from the old solo series and go with that.


One can only hope they read this...and go with it. I loved the development that was started...and I hope that direction will be touched on again.

Maybe a mini-series with Wagner escaping from Mephisto's Relm...punching him again. :D


Yeah, that would be great. In my opinion, aside from Dave himself of course, the best character development of Kurt Wagner was done by Aguirre Sacasa and Robertson -- that series was just amazing.
User avatar
Sundown
Shoulder Parrot
Shoulder Parrot
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Dungarvan, Ireland

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:10 pm


Yeah, that would be great. In my opinion, aside from Dave himself of course, the best character development of Kurt Wagner was done by Aguirre Sacasa and Robertson -- that series was just amazing.



Awww, y'didn't like Chuck Austen? :cracked


But if anyone having this discussion has not yet read the latest Uncanny X-Force, I really suggest you do. Darkholme is really getting some serious development time.
User avatar
Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
 
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Sundown » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:20 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote:

Yeah, that would be great. In my opinion, aside from Dave himself of course, the best character development of Kurt Wagner was done by Aguirre Sacasa and Robertson -- that series was just amazing.



Awww, y'didn't like Chuck Austen? :cracked


*twitch*

To be fair, Chuck Austen at least made an attempt to give Kurt Wagner character development, though it was...erm...somewhat problematic. The Azazel thing could have been better if a)there was consistency in exactly what Azazel is, b)it was followed up on rather than basically being ignored aside from a handful of one-liners.
Random X-Man: "oh Kurt, your dad is kind of an immortal, evil demon-like thing, how do you feel about that? "
Kurt: "Hmmm...vhat did you say? Sorry, I vas making a sandvich...."

Ult_Sm86 wrote:
But if anyone having this discussion has not yet read the latest Uncanny X-Force, I really suggest you do. Darkholme is really getting some serious development time.


Agree, Remender is putting some effort into giving Darkhölme some shape.
User avatar
Sundown
Shoulder Parrot
Shoulder Parrot
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Dungarvan, Ireland

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby The Drastic Spastic » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:33 pm

Sundown wrote:
Angelique wrote:Nope. I don't see how anyone who could blithely say stuff about places to be and people to kill could possible be the same person as Kurt Wagner.


Well, it depends on your definition of "same person". Their genetic potential is the same. The evolving story of Darkhölme vs. Wagner is one of nature vs. nurture. It is essentially asking, is a sociopath born or created?


If you reread Uncanny X-Force from the beginning you will see that that is the basic concept behind everything in the book, and goes a step further: can a broken person be saved? And, of course, how? And, well... which ones? Every character in the book is damaged on a fundamental level, so that the damage is very much part of who they are. Warren was a psychopath. Elizabeth is codependent. The rest of them have various unspecified narcissistic injuries that as far as I know don't have names, though they are all distinct. I don't actually think any of them are sociopaths, though. Not every murderer is a sociopath.

Where does the darkness end and the person begin? Can they be separated without "killing" the person? So far in the book the answer has been a firm no. Warren was healed, but none of the original person was left.

There are some other questions too, like since when can schizophrenia be healed by the power of love? Why did Wade describe a mix of Cluster B traits and then label them NPD? The book is just full of delightful little psychological mysteries.

I was puzzled by Darkholme's characterization in the last issue (22). Even though it's consistent with his characterization in AoA, it doesn't fit with what we've seen of him so far in UXF. Making a big deal over saving the random people hanging out in the Woode was... odd. He actually has been characterized as pretty damn asocial, if not a full-blown sociopath, up to this point so that just rang false. His argument was also very holier-than-thou, which is the kind of annoying crap I'd been hoping died with Wagner. Go save our teammates? Pfah! Not when there are refugees about! I'd expect it from Wagner as a matter of course, but here it felt very manipulative, like he had an ulterior motive. Like maybe getting in Meggan's pants?? We will see. Maybe we really did get a few issues of "total jerk" and then a sudden switcheroo back to the noble warrior, like we wouldn't notice that being kissed by a big burly man gave him a complete personality change. I'm honestly not sure. I do recall him feeling bad about some refugees in AoA, so maybe it's just a soft spot of his. Though in AoA, he decided to leave them to die because his mission was more important. Heyho.
User avatar
The Drastic Spastic
Swashbuckler
Swashbuckler
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 3:01 am
Location: ROK

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Sundown » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:32 pm

The Drastic Spastic wrote:
Sundown wrote:
Angelique wrote:Nope. I don't see how anyone who could blithely say stuff about places to be and people to kill could possible be the same person as Kurt Wagner.


Well, it depends on your definition of "same person". Their genetic potential is the same. The evolving story of Darkhölme vs. Wagner is one of nature vs. nurture. It is essentially asking, is a sociopath born or created?


If you reread Uncanny X-Force from the beginning you will see that that is the basic concept behind everything in the book, and goes a step further: can a broken person be saved? And, of course, how? And, well... which ones? Every character in the book is damaged on a fundamental level, so that the damage is very much part of who they are. Warren was a psychopath. Elizabeth is codependent. The rest of them have various unspecified narcissistic injuries that as far as I know don't have names, though they are all distinct. I don't actually think any of them are sociopaths, though. Not every murderer is a sociopath.

Agree, sociopath wasn't the best example, just an extreme one. (Up until UXF 22, however, Darkhölme had definitely been portrayed with some sociopathic tendencies, regarding the grandiose sense of self, glibness, absence of remorse, lack of empathy, contempt for those trying to reach out to them, etc.) Part of the appeal of the UXF "assassin's team" for me is the flawed characters, as you mentioned. It makes it more believable I suppose.
I like the point you brought up about a broken person being saved....that IS the focus, as well as the definition or truth behind the definition of what constitutes "broken".
The Drastic Spastic wrote:Where does the darkness end and the person begin? Can they be separated without "killing" the person? So far in the book the answer has been a firm no. Warren was healed, but none of the original person was left.

True...is the darkness the final sum of the whole or just a piece?


The Drastic Spastic wrote:I was puzzled by Darkholme's characterization in the last issue (22). Even though it's consistent with his characterization in AoA, it doesn't fit with what we've seen of him so far in UXF. Making a big deal over saving the random people hanging out in the Woode was... odd. He actually has been characterized as pretty damn asocial, if not a full-blown sociopath, up to this point so that just rang false. His argument was also very holier-than-thou, which is the kind of annoying crap I'd been hoping died with Wagner. Go save our teammates? Pfah! Not when there are refugees about! I'd expect it from Wagner as a matter of course, but here it felt very manipulative, like he had an ulterior motive. Like maybe getting in Meggan's pants?? We will see. Maybe we really did get a few issues of "total jerk" and then a sudden switcheroo back to the noble warrior, like we wouldn't notice that being kissed by a big burly man gave him a complete personality change. I'm honestly not sure. I do recall him feeling bad about some refugees in AoA, so maybe it's just a soft spot of his. Though in AoA, he decided to leave them to die because his mission was more important. Heyho.


Absolutely well said. I felt Darkhölme was as out of character in UXF 22 as Meggan was, in going from the whimsical empath everyone is familiar with to the field leader shouting orders.
Yes, there was the boat scene in one of the X-Calibre issues where he teleported to save himself but was unable to save the passengers, and appeared to regret it. He then went on to kill the people responsible. He also slapped Mystique when he found out she was fleecing refugees to Avalon.
The X-Men on his world have since all been killed, with only Jean and Sabretooth left (and they are depowered), fighting alongside the remaining humans of the world.

I've yet to really make up my mind about Darkhölme -- it is still a bit early for it for me. I don't like the apparent inconsistency of throwing in the Wagner traits in the last issue, but then again, it may only seem inconsistent because the character is still an unknown. It may also just be the creative team trying to pacify 616 Nightcrawler fans. We only have the vaguest of a backstory for Darkhölme, and the only real reference point is a handful of issues from the AoA story arc, which shows him to be unpleasant, brutal, sarcastic, impulsively violent etc, with the exception of the relationship with his mother.
User avatar
Sundown
Shoulder Parrot
Shoulder Parrot
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Dungarvan, Ireland

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:16 am

Absolutely well said. I felt Darkhölme was as out of character in UXF 22 as Meggan was, in going from the whimsical empath everyone is familiar with to the field leader shouting orders.
Yes, there was the boat scene in one of the X-Calibre issues where he teleported to save himself but was unable to save the passengers, and appeared to regret it. He then went on to kill the people responsible. He also slapped Mystique when he found out she was fleecing refugees to Avalon.
The X-Men on his world have since all been


We haven't seen Meggan in quite some time, I'm going to assume there's more going on here than we're being told. Clearly this war has been waged for a long time.

As for Darkholme teleporting off, he regretted it. He might be making up for some of his past life decisions, and also, now he has not just a 6 member squad with him, but Meggan is in charge of a small portion of a massive army of (theoretically) super powered/magical peoples. This is also an important factor in his decision making. Also, he knows Logan is a softy underneath, if he can convince him.

I wouldn't say he's promptly different from how he was in the previous issues, if I read 19-22, his reactions and dialogue with other characters remains unchanged. Dedicated to a personal cause, vicious in battle, making humor of morbid scenarios, and little faith in various party members of his team. But he relies on them all the same.

I'm sure post-this-arc, Logan and him are going to have some words about who actually runs the missions. I'm sure he's letting him make this call to save the Otherworld just so he can selfishly feel like he's fighting beside Wagner again (as Darkholme pointed out). But let's not forget that he's just stepped into a war torn world. He's having all sort of guilt flashes. Especially when Meggan just ups and kisses him, tells him what relief it is to see him. She's left dejected, in a way, but Kurt is Kurt, Darkholme or Wagner, and a lady who needs help is hard to turn down. Especially a lady like Meggan. :growl :Meggan
User avatar
Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
 
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Sundown » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:01 am

Ult_Sm86 wrote:
Absolutely well said. I felt Darkhölme was as out of character in UXF 22 as Meggan was, in going from the whimsical empath everyone is familiar with to the field leader shouting orders.
Yes, there was the boat scene in one of the X-Calibre issues where he teleported to save himself but was unable to save the passengers, and appeared to regret it. He then went on to kill the people responsible. He also slapped Mystique when he found out she was fleecing refugees to Avalon.
The X-Men on his world have since all been


We haven't seen Meggan in quite some time, I'm going to assume there's more going on here than we're being told. Clearly this war has been waged for a long time.


True enough I suppose, though it still feels like a stretch of credibility given her past personality. It would be a bit like not seeing Storm for awhile, then suddenly finding her represented in a title as submissive and cracking jokes. :shocked

Ult_Sm86 wrote:He might be making up for some of his past life decisions, and also, now he has not just a 6 member squad with him, but Meggan is in charge of a small portion of a massive army of (theoretically) super powered/magical peoples. This is also an important factor in his decision making. Also, he knows Logan is a softy underneath, if he can convince him.


He could be making up for past decisions, or he could have the X-Men compulsion to fight for the underdog in whatever form. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression from the dialogue that Meg was defending the ordinary population of Otherworld, so basically normal people.

I'm not sure what he knows about 616 Logan at this point, given the references of the last issue and the fact that Weapon Omega is a mass murderer in his world. Darkhölme has just said that the Logan of the 616 world is different and worthy of his help. I would expect he is trying to figure Logan out as much as Logan is trying to figure him out.

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I wouldn't say he's promptly different from how he was in the previous issues, if I read 19-22, his reactions and dialogue with other characters remains unchanged. Dedicated to a personal cause, vicious in battle, making humor of morbid scenarios, and little faith in various party members of his team. But he relies on them all the same.


The difference, for me, is that it is the first time we've seen him do something in this world that shows any empathy or compassion.

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I'm sure post-this-arc, Logan and him are going to have some words about who actually runs the missions. I'm sure he's letting him make this call to save the Otherworld just so he can selfishly feel like he's fighting beside Wagner again (as Darkholme pointed out). But let's not forget that he's just stepped into a war torn world. He's having all sort of guilt flashes.


I think Darkhölme probably has more confidence in leading a team than Wagner did -- he hasn't been shown as yet to suffer from self-doubts.
I agree completely with Logan's motivation on the call to fight for Otherworld. Why wouldn't he? This is the first real glimpse of his friend in Darkhölme he's had.
Do you mean Darkhölme is having guilt flashes? No doubt...he'd probably be twitching with PTSD if this was reality.

Ult_Sm86 wrote: Especially when Meggan just ups and kisses him, tells him what relief it is to see him. She's left dejected, in a way, but Kurt is Kurt, Darkholme or Wagner, and a lady who needs help is hard to turn down. Especially a lady like Meggan. :growl :Meggan
[/quote]

;) Yep, it's Meggan we're talking about. Kurt Wagner definitely always had trouble turning her down.
User avatar
Sundown
Shoulder Parrot
Shoulder Parrot
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Dungarvan, Ireland

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Wahnsinn » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:26 am

On Meggan: She was last seen in Captain Britain & MI:13 leading an army in Hell before being returned to her home dimension as a hidden weapon to help kick the snot out of Dracula and his army.

I don't think Darkhölme wanting to help the refugees is totally out of character. It's just that it shows a side of his character that hasn't yet had a chance to present itself since he's joined up with X-Force. It's consistent with his fighting for the welfare of refugees in AoA. Comparatively, he was a hero in his home reality. It just took a much harder edge to survive in that world, so what made a hero was fundamentally different. Also, I'm wondering if the way he's been reacting to people assuming he's their dead friend is a bit of a defense mechanism. He's being faced with the idea that he could have been a very different sort of person, and that might be challenging his sense of self.

On a side note: What's with the red eyes? :?
User avatar
Wahnsinn
Butt Monkey
Butt Monkey
 
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 1:58 pm
Location: The Land of Sausage

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Sundown » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:10 pm

Wahnsinn wrote:On Meggan: She was last seen in Captain Britain & MI:13 leading an army in Hell before being returned to her home dimension as a hidden weapon to help kick the snot out of Dracula and his army.

I don't think Darkhölme wanting to help the refugees is totally out of character. It's just that it shows a side of his character that hasn't yet had a chance to present itself since he's joined up with X-Force. It's consistent with his fighting for the welfare of refugees in AoA. Comparatively, he was a hero in his home reality. It just took a much harder edge to survive in that world, so what made a hero was fundamentally different. Also, I'm wondering if the way he's been reacting to people assuming he's their dead friend is a bit of a defense mechanism. He's being faced with the idea that he could have been a very different sort of person, and that might be challenging his sense of self.

On a side note: What's with the red eyes? :?


Thanks for clearing that up about Meggan. I hadn't really read much on the character since Excalibur days.

Good point on determining exactly what is in or out of character for Darkhölme -- as I said earlier, I just haven't personally seen enough to tell yet. He's still an unknown.
I would say people constantly seeing you in terms of who you aren't rather than who you are would cause anyone to be defensive. The sense of self thing might be pretty accurate as well....he seems to show surprise at Wagner's popularity in the last issue and I know in X-Calibre the Darkhölme's -- both mother and son -- were referred to with a sneer. Aside from Mystique, Eric, Jean and Sabretooth, he didn't seem to be overly popular in his home world.

The red eyes seem to be that particular artist. I really, really dislike the art of this story arc, as I find it difficult to follow.
User avatar
Sundown
Shoulder Parrot
Shoulder Parrot
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Dungarvan, Ireland

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:05 pm

I just realized there's a whole 'nother thread to discussion the issue by issue type stuff of UXF.


That said, I think Darkholme's been a nice addition. :shrug I don't love this arc, but I love how it's developing characters. I'm very looking forward to the next arc, which Elwing kindly revealed to us in the aforementioned thread.
User avatar
Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
 
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Sundown » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:15 pm

Have any of you read the 2005 revisit to AoA? There is a 6 issue story arc that includes Kurt Darkhölme with that world's X-Men.
User avatar
Sundown
Shoulder Parrot
Shoulder Parrot
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Dungarvan, Ireland

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:11 pm

I haven't, Sundown but I know of it. They're currently revisiting AoA as we have thiw conversation, but obviously neither Kurt is involved. Both preoccupied, (one being dead and all)
User avatar
Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
 
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Sundown » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:15 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I haven't, Sundown but I know of it. They're currently revisiting AoA as we have thiw conversation, but obviously neither Kurt is involved. Both preoccupied, (one being dead and all)


The arc is pretty good. We've talked some about Remender's characterization of Kurt Darkhölme in this thread, and in those 2005 issues he's a fairly prominent character. It actually does show him in non-combat situations, and gives some interaction with that world's Logan before he turned into Weapon Omega.

As far as the current revisit to AoA, I think the launch is March or April, isn't it? I've read UXF #19.1 which is the prequel to it and it wasn't bad, though I don't think it is a title I will pick up.
User avatar
Sundown
Shoulder Parrot
Shoulder Parrot
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Dungarvan, Ireland

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:20 pm

I didn't realize it wasn't starting until then, but yeah that's it. I must've seen the Prequel and assumed that it had kicked off.

I avoided that like the plague.
User avatar
Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
 
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Sundown » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:49 pm

We should really make a topic just comparing the two versions of Nightcrawler. -,-
User avatar
Sundown
Shoulder Parrot
Shoulder Parrot
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Dungarvan, Ireland

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:10 am

Yup we could do that, but I feel like it'd be easier to just rename this thread.

I wouldn't want to merge this one with Elwing's her thread has steered clear of the comparisons (mostly) thus far, and focuses more on the book/story/art/etc... basically the whole of UXF, not just NIghtcrawler.
User avatar
Ult_Sm86
Dread Pirate
Dread Pirate
 
Posts: 5804
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Title: Passive Antagonist
Nightscrawlearth Character: :hellboy :r2

Re: AoA Nightcrawler (Darkholme) in Uncanny X-Force Teaser I

Postby Sundown » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:10 am

Should probably change the title to this one then -- any ideas how?
User avatar
Sundown
Shoulder Parrot
Shoulder Parrot
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Dungarvan, Ireland

PreviousNext

Return to Nightcrawler

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest

cron