Uncanny #428

NachtcGleiskette · Post by **NachtcGleiskette** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:00 am

Ummm.......It wasn't my favorite. While I liked how Azzy "played" Mysitque, I felt like the whole issue was rushed. It seemed to move fast, it had alot happening at once, and sometimes without explanation. I think I would have like to have understood why Mystique got rid of Kurt a little bit more. I kind of assume that I know why, but I'd rather have a concrete answer than my assumption. Azzy, well, I don't know. I'm not going to form my opinion of his character from this sole issue. I definately don't like that his power is teleportation. I don't understand why. Why does he have to have the same power as Kurt? It is rare in the Marvel/X men universe that a child inherits the exact powere from thier parent (excluding Banshee/Siryn

). But, there could be a really good reason, so I'll accept it. And I'm not going to form my opinion of the entire Draco arc from this issue....but if it's going in the way I think it is, I'm not sure I'll be happy. But, I like Austen, so I'm going to give it a chance

....

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:29 am

you wanna know why she got rid of him? you do know, she WILL be in the beginning of Draco... WITH Azzy. i think he's gonna want some answers as well

Elektra · Post by **Elektra** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:50 am

Looks like I had to re-register, so I imagine my other posts went poofy. No worries.

Here are some whacky theories I'm going to throw out:

What if Azazel knew exactly what would happen with Mystique and the Baron (ie: telling her to raise the child as the Baron's when he knew perfectly well it would have both mom and dad's features, and Mystique would have to run away somehow -- or resort to murder the way she did ).

Maybe when Kurt and Mystique's true forms were revealed, Azazel planned to snatch the baby all along (eg: the BAMFing when she tossed Kurt over the waterfall could have been Daddy 'saving' Kurt).

I wouldn't be surprised if Azazel is the one who gave baby!Kurt to Margali in the first place, hoping she'd teach him dark magiks and whatnot (come to think of it, he looked a little Belasco-ish... but maybe that's just me).

We know (at least, I THINK we know) the story Margali told Kurt about finding him beside his dead parents was all BS anyway.

See, told you they were whacky! Are they close, at least?

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:52 am

I'm guessing Kurt's a mix of inherited powers and his own...

He's got his mum's colouring (he may even have some shape-shifting he's not aware of...) and his dad's teleportation (his dad's devilish good looks are just normal inheritence...). But does dad cling to walls? Is dad highly agile? Does dad disapear into shadows? Maybe...maybe not...

And Ryan? I love the new Nils

Melylott · Post by **Melylott** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:54 am

Huh. I give it a 8 out of 10. I LOVE Azzy. He. Is. Hot. Danggggggg. But I have only one problem, I will LOVE this arc (especially judging by what Jill says), if Azzy is not a demon. I hope he's not. I've already prepared myserf, but still....If Azzy is a demon, that would be the one big letdown. *sigh*

blueberrymuffin · Post by **blueberrymuffin** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:57 am

I might be the only one who thinks the idea of Kurts daddy being demon is way cool. Obviously it explains a lot about his physical characteristics (tail, teeth etc). Besides, two totally evil parents begetting a son who becomes a super hero. Yeah, me likey.

Nightcrawler ZERO · Post by **Nightcrawler ZERO** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 1:06 am

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
Why does he have to have the same power as Kurt? It is rare in the Marvel/X men universe that a child inherits the exact powere from thier parent (excluding Banshee/Siryn ).

Or the plethora of alternate Scott/Jean offspring............

Originally posted by Bamfette
yeah, i didn't know about... whatever story it is you are talking about. maybe Chuck didn't either. eh. i dunno. maybe he WAS writing her as a muderer there. never asked. i still liked it.

Couldn't that also be explained away as one of Logan's memory implants?

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 1:07 am

Azzy CAN'T be a demon.

Doctor Strange said in Nightcrawler's Inferno (X-Men Annual #4)...that , even though he had assumed Kurt was some kind of human/demon hybrid, the Eye of Agamotto's all-seeing light of truth showed Kurt to be human in essence...

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 1:26 am

I agree: Azzy is 100% (mutated) human being. At least, biologically. I never consider sadistic, manipulative creeps truly "human", but that's just me.

More likely, his evil ways lead to or reinforced already existing concepts of what a devil/demon looks like. After all, if you've got someone truly, uniquely, frighteningly bizarre, and he turns out to be utterly evil at his core, it would be easy to ascribe his odd exterior to be a reflection of his true nature, rather than two unconnected circumstances. People do that even now, in this so-called "enlightened" age. During the medieval period and before, differences and deformalities of all types were automatically ascribed to demonic influences. (This was a very bad time to be an albino....)

As a different viewpoint, I can easily see someone from ancient Assyria taking one look at Azzy, knowing his evil reputation, and using him as a model for a demon, as we do with popular figures for political cartoons (cough *Osama* cough). After a few generations, no one knows the original guy, but the image is so familiar it sticks....

swordwhalewalking · Post by **swordwhalewalking** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 2:18 am

"Azzy CAN'T be a demon.

Doctor Strange said in Nightcrawler's Inferno (X-Men Annual #4)...that , even though he had assumed Kurt was some kind of human/demon hybrid, the Eye of Agamotto's all-seeing light of truth showed Kurt to be human in essence... "

:D:D:D Yeaaaaay! Way to go!

I thought of that immediately when I read the issue. "Nooo! They can't do the daddy demon thing, Dr. Strange said so. Although, you could stretch that a bit...maybe he's still "human in his essence" even with a demonic daddy, maybe he inherited the physical properties without the mental/spiritual properties....uhh, well, nevermind.

I seriously hope they dont do the demon thing. I'd like to see Daddy dearest be another mutant who's using his appearance in quite the opposite way Kurt does. Even "Isla de Demonas" could be an affectation designed to add to the image Azazel is trying to project. And yes, I seem to find that name a bit familiar...like attached to a demon somewhere in myth.

Elektra · Post by **Elektra** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:28 am

Didn't Alex and Kurt discover the bones of an ancient mutant race that existed long before mutants supposedly showed up? And wasn't it on Les Isle des Demonas (sp?) aka the Island of Demons -- which could very well be a name given to that place by "normal" humans who didn't know from mutants, and just declared them all 'demons' instead?

In other words -- what if there ARE no real demons and those that we would call demons are really only an ancient perception of mutants by ignorant humans.

Just a thought.

(er... I hope it makes sense, lol).

taekwondodo · Post by **taekwondodo** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:37 am

AAAAAGH! My stupid local comic shop STILL didn't have this one as of Monday. I'm gonna go nuts! I haven't had a chance to get back all week - they better have it tomorrow 'cause I wanna see what all the fuss is about.

Moongazer · Post by **Moongazer** » Sat Jul 26, 2003 6:00 am

That sucks. Don't know where you live, but if there's a Waldenbooks or Borders, they almost always have the latest uncanny issues. Books-a-million, too.

Darkstalker · Post by **Darkstalker** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 3:25 am

Hey! Remember me? It's been a while. A lotm of things have been going on, but that's for later. Anyway, this issue was the first I've bought in a long time. I've gotten pretty used to to ordering on-line, until I finally discovered Walden carries them! I loved this story, and I'm glad Iwaited to reply, you've put my mind to ease about alot of things. Of course Azazael teleported baby Kurt, why didn't I think of that!

And no, he may not be a demon, (of course, I'd love him to be), Azzy sure is not a mutant. So the only thing that bothers me now is, if Kurt inherited his teleportation power from him, can it really be considered a mutant power?

Whoa, does that make my brain hurt! :dead BTW Bamfette, your picture is awesome!! Let me guess, that's "you", right?

Nightcrawler ZERO · Post by **Nightcrawler ZERO** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 3:55 am

Originally posted by DarkstalkerSo the only thing that bothers me now is, if Kurt inherited his teleportation power from him, can it really be considered a mutant power? Whoa, does that make my brain hurt!

Scientifically, If all his powers and appearance are inherited (Does Azzy have shadow fading, wall crawling, and agility?) Then he is not a mutant. However, he is still Homo Sapiens Superior (commonly refered to as mutants)

msgt · Post by **msgt** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 1:44 pm

The issue has got me interested so I plan on reading Draco.

I also would rather Nighty's dad be mutant and not a demon. But we'll see.

I also assumed it was his dad that bamfed and saved him at the end of the issue.

msgt

Phoebe Mittens · Post by **Phoebe Mittens** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 5:41 pm

Originally posted by Nandireya
the Eye of Agamotto's all-seeing light of truth showed Kurt to be human in essence...

My theory on this, and it's a little shonky, is that even if Azzy IS a demon, Kurt can still be 100% human. Confused? You will be.

Kurt's a Catholic, and catholics believe (I think) in redemption through faith. Kurt's faith has always been strong, and his actions heroic, so isn't there a possibility that he's "redeemed" the demonic side of himself and made it human? Basically: we'll all born tainted with original sin. Kurt just had a little more of it to work off than most.

It could work...

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:49 pm

Originally posted by Phoebe Mittens
Originally posted by Nandireya
the Eye of Agamotto's all-seeing light of truth showed Kurt to be human in essence...
My theory on this, and it's a little shonky, is that even if Azzy IS a demon, Kurt can still be 100% human. Confused? You will be.

Kurt's a Catholic, and catholics believe (I think) in redemption through faith. Kurt's faith has always been strong, and his actions heroic, so isn't there a possibility that he's "redeemed" the demonic side of himself and made it human? Basically: we'll all born tainted with original sin. Kurt just had a little more of it to work off than most.

It could work...

That's a neat twist. I always believed that being a demon was a matter of choice, rather than birth. After all, demons were at one point angels who made the choice to turn from God, right? Though I still believe that Azzy is a (nasty, evil, scheming, machiavellian) mutant, I see a lot of wisdom in your words.

fuzzy yukon · Post by **fuzzy yukon** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:08 am

so far as I knew demons are the only critters that can't be redeemed. They are fallen angels, those who chose out of free will to defy and attempt to overthrow god. (BAD BAD IDEA) ( the only reason humans can be redeemed is because christ decided to come to earth and die for us, and also because they were decieved (serpent satan thing ) into sinning. They did not choose out of free and unadulterated will to defy god . But I could be wrong considering most of my knowledge stems from Miltons paradise lost , which is ,(while on the topic of demons) one of the greates , and probably one of the last epic poems ever written.read it love it. I'm probably way off topic now, but just to get back on topic, I think its just a better idea to keep kurt a mutant who just happens to look slightly demonic .... ok very demonic in a handsome Faust kinda way;)

Dracadancer · Post by **Dracadancer** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:40 am

I agree with those that said Mystique was a bit out of character. She stared out fine, sleeping around and all, then suddenly got all sentimental (I--AM--IN--LOVE!

) when Azazel stepped into the picture but threw Kurt away without a second thought. Can you say bipolar? It was nice to see how she got her name though. I had a lot more issues with her than the actual story. It was just so wrong, yet so right at the same time, to have them getting it on inside a church. Was anybody else wondering though how Azazel hid his demonic appearance at the dance? Surely he’s not a shapeshifter too is he? And how did he know she was mutant? If he's a telepath on top of everything else no wonder he's the ruler of that island. He's got to be the single most gifted mutant on the planet!

Moongazer · Post by **Moongazer** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 4:23 am

I think Mystique was done perfectly. She does, indeed, have a mental instability that played off impeccably in the issue.

blueberrymuffin · Post by **blueberrymuffin** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 5:42 pm

If Azzy is a demon, he would know Mystique was a mutant shapeshifter, would be able to hide his demonic markings (tail, coloring, teeth etc). He's probably been watching her and plotting his demonice plans and using her to their fullfillment. Demons are powerful beings with many capabilities. I kinda hope hels a demon.

Humanity is inside, not outside. Kurt's feelings and morals are completely human, so that would make him human too. No matter who his daddy is. Jesus was human, his father was God for cryin' out loud.

Darkstalker · Post by **Darkstalker** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:32 pm

Azzy certainly has the appearance and personality of a demon; and of course the fact that he hints he has been alive since the creation of man would point to it, but I think we're all missing the answer. I didn't think of it at first, but the answer is right under our noses, I think!

Here's my theory: Azazel is a member of the ancient race shown in #423/424. They are probably the inspiration for man's depiction of what demons are. But I agree that if he was a real demon, that Kurt could still be human. Afterall, isn't that what attracts us to him in the first place? The fact that he may have a frightening appearance, but has a kind and noble heart? So even though physically he may be part demon, the eye could have seen his heart and soul are still human. Oh, and I also figured out that his teleportation power could still be a mutation. In an earlier topic, someone mentioned that Azzy was trapped in the same dimension Kurt 'ports through. So I guess that the mutation in his teleport is that he can carry passengersthrough with him. This also explains why Azz would wait so long to make his return, 'cause it did take a while before Kurt could master this technique. Now if I could only figure out Margali's part in all this...

Phoebe Mittens · Post by **Phoebe Mittens** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:19 pm

Originally posted by blueberrymuffin
Jesus was human, his father was God for cryin' out loud.

Nice point.

(edit) Also, anyone noticed that they haven't reviewed this issue on X-Fan yet? They've been dumping all over Chuck's Uncanny stuff lately, especially the last issue. I think they don't want to have to eat their words as they review this. *evil chuckle*

MabusRex · Post by **MabusRex** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:34 pm

Originally posted by Phoebe Mittens
(edit) Also, anyone noticed that they haven't reviewed this issue on X-Fan yet? They've been dumping all over Chuck's Uncanny stuff lately, especially the last issue. I think they don't want to have to eat their words as they review this. *evil chuckle*

Nah, Lauren actually seemed to like it when I last talked with her. She's just slow at getting reviews up. Same thing happened with 426 and 427