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Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:34 pm
by Wahnsinn
I'm not so convinced it is supernatural. Methinks it's the natural shapeshifting ability of the Bamfs combined with Azazel's blood magic. They did stand around in a sorcery circle before fusing together, and that's not unlike what was happening when Azazel had his offspring in his thrall when trying to create the portal to bring over his army in "The Draco." The interruption of that spell left Kurt with his hand fused to the hand of a dead half-sibling, much like how the Bamfs' hands alone were shown fusing together before they turned into the blob that became Kurt.

I don't think he's unwelcome back in the afterlife. I think it's more that the chances of him getting to return are slim because he's tied his life to the continued existence of a massive colony of hell beasts. As long as they live, he lives. I'm with you, though, in that I would've preferred something simpler. They got Colossus out of being cremated with a body snatch, so why not do the same with Kurt? They all think he's dead while the alien/sorcerer/whatever that took him fixes him up, and a whole rescue scenario for a big adventure can be put together if it's that Kurt's held captive/mind-controlled/whatever. Or we could find out that it was a kindly alien/sorcerer/whatever who just needed Kurt's help for a little while, which he gladly gave because he's nice like that.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 10:49 am
by Sundown
From reading the interviews, I think Aaron, when he requested the return of Nightcrawler, was told he'd have to have a solid story behind it before it was allowed. I, for one, am glad this isn't just another random comic resurrection and that there is some meat to it.

As far as the impact on Kurt, I think something was also indicated in the last issue of Amazing during his conversation with Mystique. She remarked on him being different, so I believe this will be a time of change for the character, like when he woke back up from the coma to launch Excalibur.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 6:50 pm
by Ult_Sm86
Issue no.002 is a much needed improvement, but it's still far from what I imagined the series to be like.

Is anyone else getting annoyed that Kurt keeps "saving" Amanda, taking credit for it, and completely and full of hubris, reminding her at every opportunity? He seems to always be saving her... I'm pretty sure she outpowers him by quite a bit, even with a gaggle of Bamfs. I've always felt Claremont writes empowered, but undeserving-of-said-power-thus-weak women, but this is a stretch even for him.

What I mean is, Claremont writes women who have lots of power but either zero personality or a complete inability to use the power properly. But they're always wonderful people. I keep getting this vibe that Amanda is going to be proven to be like... a facade or unreal. She seems so 2-dimensional.


... Maybe it's not as good as I thought it was, second thought.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:48 pm
by Ult_Sm86
What do we think of the August solicitation?

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Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:25 pm
by Bamfing_Bob
Looks like a fun cover, for sure. Being a teacher is a role that most of the X-Men have had a chance to fill by now, so seeing Nightcrawler assume the position (hee hee) will be a fun read. Also, we can presume the Amanda/origin backstory arc will be done be now. So that's good...

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:46 pm
by Ult_Sm86
I hope there's time to improve this title. Had a conversation with a Twitter friend of mine in between the 1st & 2nd issues, ... we both sorta hope after about 5 maybe 6 issues, Claremont moves along and another writer (James Asmus anybody?) could come along. Not to sound ungrateful for Marvel bringing Kurt back, even giving him his own book! But seriously... this writing is so ... dated.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:46 pm
by Bamfing_Bob
I kinda like dated... What I have issue with is the story itself. I figured the first storyline would have been stronger and more central to the actual resurrection of Nightcrawler. Ramifications, acclamation, etc...

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 12:13 am
by Ult_Sm86
That's what I mean, it feels all inconsequential -- as most of the dated stuff from Claremon'ts prime era feels to me.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:28 pm
by Sundown
Ult_Sm86 wrote:Issue no.002 is a much needed improvement, but it's still far from what I imagined the series to be like.

Is anyone else getting annoyed that Kurt keeps "saving" Amanda, taking credit for it, and completely and full of hubris, reminding her at every opportunity? He seems to always be saving her... I'm pretty sure she outpowers him by quite a bit, even with a gaggle of Bamfs. I've always felt Claremont writes empowered, but undeserving-of-said-power-thus-weak women, but this is a stretch even for him.

What I mean is, Claremont writes women who have lots of power but either zero personality or a complete inability to use the power properly. But they're always wonderful people. I keep getting this vibe that Amanda is going to be proven to be like... a facade or unreal. She seems so 2-dimensional.



Yep, I see where you're coming from with that. I'd seen someone else saying the same -- that the whole bit felt kind of unreal, like a product of manipulation or something pulled from his head.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:48 pm
by Bamfing_Bob
So, issue 3 came out yesterday, and man, this is a big improvement. We dive into Nightcrawler's struggle with his loss of spiritual status, and an awesome speech from Wolverine. Great stuff. Also, our worries about Amanda are addressed. Fun stuff. My faith is beginning to be restored :)

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:41 am
by Ult_Sm86
Yeah, not so much for me. Wasn't until the last few panels did a spark of improvement arrive for me.

I was mixed as it began to end. Bit like this:
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Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:37 pm
by Ult_Sm86
I was ... happy with the way the story turned out. Happy is a good way to put it. The events were... muddy... but the end result left me happy.
However...

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I have to bring up again that this narration of action that is clearly being drawn by a very competent artist (Nauck) on Claremont's behalf is just more evidence, in my opinion, that Claremont's scripts are wildly out of fashion. It's sad that I can't wait for him, a legend in comic books, to get dropped like a hot potato from this series in order to save an X-Title they desperately need.

They cancelled plans for X-Men Legacy for this book. They gave Claremont his own Nightcrawler series and that's a gamble 'cause the character didn't die in his peek popularity 'nor did he return to increased fan fervor (though definitely we as a close group demanded it enough times). If they are going to pull this off and look like they're not just tickling our fancies and selling books just for money with characters we will read, regardless of the quality of story (or in some books -- art... see All-New Ultimates), then perhaps it's time Marvel steps it up and show they're not selling covers like they have accused the Distinguished Competition, or even selling books solely on the talent behind the book, but rather the highest quality comic they can deliver, all things included.

That said, HEY! Tom Brevoort!

Dump Claremont.

Bring on Waid.
Until a new writer comes on, I'm not paying for this book anymore.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:53 am
by Sundown
Well, issue #5 was a definite improvement for anyone interested. I reviewed it here: http://www.comicvine.com/nightcrawler-5 ... 2200-44030

It looks like he's finally getting something of a path going forward and other than brief mention, the weird/contrived Amanda thing wasn't brought into it.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:36 pm
by Bamfing_Bob
Very nice review. I love the new direction of the book and have great expectations of things to come.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:38 pm
by Ult_Sm86
I suppose this just isn't the story I wanted. Space stuff and X-Men always turns into a snore for me.
But I'm not trying to come off as harsh and will add that as happenstance as the whole scenario is, I'm glad he's getting out of that school. I thought I wanted him there, re-learning what it is to be a teacher at Xavier's but the first few pages of that were over-the-top and not what I had expected. Seems Claremont's Kurt is better suited for missions, and it's always fun when a student sneaks onto one of those.


I will say the scantily clad Rachel is a strange thing to see after her characterization in Wood's "X-Men." I didn't think her go-to DR style of dress was similar to Red Sonja's. Or is that just Claremont writing for the 80's again?

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:31 pm
by Sundown
Ult_Sm86 wrote:

I will say the scantily clad Rachel is a strange thing to see after her characterization in Wood's "X-Men." I didn't think her go-to DR style of dress was similar to Red Sonja's. Or is that just Claremont writing for the 80's again?


That was a tongue in cheek reference to a classic Kurt/Rachel scene from Claremont's last comeback, which in turn was based on an old Excalibur issue. In short, a kind of inside joke between old friends.

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Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:07 pm
by Angelique
And all of that, in turn, is tribute to the John Carter of Mars books, of which Claremont and the late, great Dave Cockrum have been huge fans.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:26 pm
by Ult_Sm86
That is certainly the case by your evidence, and I get that. But it still irked me. Rachel in the other two books she appears in would never have done that.

I guess this book is just for older-school fans. Another key reason why I've not really gotten into it.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:35 pm
by Sundown
Yes, those continuity-centric little prize eggs getting thrown in there are nice for us old-timers, though based on the mentor role and the inclusion of the younger generation, I think CC is setting up a nice formula to appeal to old and new readers. I mean, as an old reader it doesn't annoy me to see Mercury or Rico in the book -- far from it.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:37 pm
by Nandireya
Did you just call us old?

I haven't seen it yet. I only go to the comic shop once a month...the week Previews comes out, which is this week I believe...unless a title is so awesome I have to have it as soon as I can get my grubby little mitts on it. I can't recall the last time that was...

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:53 pm
by Ult_Sm86
I mean, as an old reader it doesn't annoy me to see Mercury or Rico in the book -- far from it.


Yeah... I sorta hate Rico. He has yet to grow on me. Mercury is cool but she could definitely be holding her own book. Her character is far more intense and developed than what Claremont has depicted in my reads thus far.

I think this book is just not my flavor. Again, it could all fall down on the writing style and have nothing to do with his characterization or anything. I just dread picking it up. It's not for me.


.... I miss Kurt Darkholme. I miss ... texture.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:35 pm
by Sundown
Ult_Sm86 wrote:


.... I miss Kurt Darkholme. I miss ... texture.


Eh, I'm not going to argue that point. I kind of feel like there was room enough for both, considering how different their motivations, MO, etc were, but then again I think Darkhölme would've made a better sympathetic villain in the long run. /shrug

I'm sorry the solo isn't to your taste. I expect Claremont is waging an uphill battle to not only attempt his own comeback, but to also bring a character that was reduced to irrelevancy over a decade ago back to the forefront enough for other writers to pick him up and make him relevant again. I'll be supporting him through it and sincerely hope for the best for him as well as the character.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:30 am
by Ult_Sm86
I expect Claremont is waging an uphill battle to not only attempt his own comeback, but to also bring a character that was reduced to irrelevancy over a decade ago back to the forefront enough for other writers to pick him up and make him relevant again. I'll be supporting him through it and sincerely hope for the best for him as well as the character.


You've actually clearly identified my biggest problem with the book. While he was surely on the back-burner, Fraction's grasp on him was clear. The writers of X-Books at the time knew what to do with him... they also chose to kill him, which was a total shame. But two years later, the best writers out there for X-Books who could've handled him are all gone. Jason Aaron is doing "bigger, better things" Remender's work with any Nightcrawler seems to start/stop at Darkholme, & meanwhile this character is getting the "olde style" treatment from Claremont.

Yeah, it probably is an uphill battle.
But there's a reason for that. I know it makes me sound cranky and grouchy, but longboxes are where that sort of comic book storytelling belongs. The stories and how we make characterizations, realize a person on a page (and with that sentiment I am referring to female persons), and how we tell a story in general -- it's all evolved.

It makes me sound like a hard-ass but in turn, I say stories now are better than they ever have been. The artwork is at it's most stunning and I firmly feel there's a comic bookfor everyone and not every comic book needs to be that "anyone can read it" book. 'Nor should it be.

But "Nightcrawler" by Christ Claremont has a very limited demographic of fan-appeal and they need to change that or it's going to get cancelled. Sorry, but that's the way it is. The attraction for that sort of book? The numbers are simply not going to be there. Finish this arc out, bring in a new writer.


... Preferably Gail Simone, who I think could do wonders for the book.

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:09 pm
by Entropy
I like Claremont's older stuff. Heck, i even enjoyed the first arcs of Extreme x-men (left when Larocca left). I like the easter eggs for older fans but the story in general has been a real let down. At least the baseball reference was a little different this time. I really like the idea of Gail writing Kurt, and loved it when Aaron was writing Amazing. Heck, I'd pay triple cost to get Alan Davis to write and draw the series (and would throw some extra dough if he could get the Clan Destine as guests).

Ultsm86, i have to ask. When you talk about the art being better than ever what exactly do you mean? And stories being better than ever, i'd have to respectfully disagree. I'd say that just like in the past there are some good and some bad. Admittedly some great past stories cannot hold up because you know what is going to happen or that the character comes back (ie Dark Phoenix Saga, which i read through reprints in the 90's).

Re: Claremont to return to Nightcrawler!

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:00 pm
by Ult_Sm86
THIS IS AWESOME!

Maybe I will start buying it again at #7...


Looks like Brevoort heard my prayers. ;)