Kurt's Kids??

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Kurt's Kids??

Post by blauliebeself »

So I just got back from a fan fic site (Sanctuary) and I stumbled across this story about Kurt's daughter. I just wondered, since I don't read the comics, if this was just a figment of a writer's imagination, or if there was something I missed out on by sticking to the shows. I think it said her name was T.J. Wagner or something, or am I just a confused lil bunny? So, recap: "Was there ever an issue where Kurt ended up with kids?"
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

:D Nacht loves talkin bout TJ:

Kurt does not have any children.....in our reality. In another reality, he marries the Scarlet Witch and they end p with a bouncing baby girl name Talia Josephine. At 20, lil TJ gets "unhinged from time" (basically pulled from her reality) and becomes an Exile......you can read about her in the Exiles (GREAT GREAT Comic!!!!!!)

He also has a daughter codenamed Blue with Amanda Sefton, who lives in the future Rachel Summers comes from, as well as a son codenamed Salamander in another reality described in "Millenial Visions".....though Salamander doesn't seem to be a likely candidate to be brought into a Marvel book, being as though they gave his power to his alternate reality sister......Anywho, any more questions, direct em here.....

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Post by Melylott »

I wanna know more about Salamander! Which is appropriate, as I am getting Millenial Visions today. Goddess bless back issue bins! We need a Blue smilie.
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Blue?

Post by Phoebe Mittens »

Whatwherehow? Where did Blue show up, I haven't heard of her...? Is that in the 616 Universe?
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Post by Harlekein »

Blue is from the Days of Future Past reality. She is part of the New Mutants.
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Post by blauliebeself »

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
He also has a daughter codenamed Blue with Amanda Sefton, who lives in the future Rachel Summers comes from, as well as a son codenamed Salamander in another reality described in "Millenial VisionsNachtcGleiskette: Self proclaimed TJ expert :nocturne

Thanks for the info, but I've got one question- So are these Salamander and Blue kids in the same reality as TJ?
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Post by Shian »

Wow, so many different possiblities . . .

Rachel Summers? Scott's future daughter or what?

Hmm, so, who's Nocturne?
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Post by Exodus »

I think Kurt needs to have a child in the 616 universe.. Or else someone else besides a member of the Summers family needs one. :/ We need more X-Children.
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Post by Harlekein »

Originally posted by Shian
Wow, so many different possiblities . . .

Rachel Summers? Scott's future daughter or what?

Hmm, so, who's Nocturne?
The girl in your avatar. TJ=Nocturne

Salamander and Blue are not from the same reality as Nocturne or the same reality of each other.
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Post by Siona »

Whoa, never heard of Blue and Salamander; anyone got any pics of them at all???

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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Originally posted by blauliebeself
Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
He also has a daughter codenamed Blue with Amanda Sefton, who lives in the future Rachel Summers comes from, as well as a son codenamed Salamander in another reality described in "Millenial VisionsNachtcGleiskette: Self proclaimed TJ expert :nocturne

Thanks for the info, but I've got one question- So are these Salamander and Blue kids in the same reality as TJ?
Blue is actually of the 616 universe...just in the future......Salamander is in another universe entirely....described as "The Offspring" in Millenial Visions (the first)...his Xmen are led by an aging Kitty Pryde and WOlverine. The team pretty much consists of our Xmen's kids.....Nightcrawler's son, Archangel's daughter, Colossus' daughter, and the daughter of (oddly enough) Gambit and Storm. Oh, and Lockheed :D

As for TJ: In her reality, the Xmen are led by a parapalegic Wolverine and her father. Charles Xavier has been dead, killed accidentally by Wolverine himself. She grew up under the tutelage of her father. Her X'team consists of a young Kitty Pryde (who was taken from the past and switched with the "future" Kitty), the Pheonix Force, that resides within Colossus, Armageddon (son of Apocalypse and Jean Grey's DNA), and Plague (who has something to do with the Legacy virus...dont really get this character exactly).....

*Nacht holds herself back from going into an all out TJ explanation....seriously...any more questions??
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Post by Bamfette »

POTENTIAL future. Technically, future realities are as seperate as any other alternate timeline. A simple change in the present can change that future completely, so they can not be considered something that actually will happen. one future timeline has Kurt and Amanda marrying, and producing Blue. another has Salamander as his child. Another future timeline has descendents of Kurt and Scott turning evil and ruling the world 100 years from present time. those are ALL the future of the same timeline, depending on which path events progress along. But the paths to choose from are countless, and there is no guarantee that the one shown will be the one we will see the characters actually follow.

Because a future timeleine is stated to be a future of this, the 616, timeline, does not mean it WILL happen. Some little, tiny thing can change, and what was ONCE the future timeline merely becomes yet another alternate reality. Writers are absolutely in no way bound by what is shown to be the future in past stories. Infact, Days of Future Past timeline is already completely impossible, because Colossus is dead. He was alive in that future.
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Post by Gaz »

Okay... i knew about all the characters from different universes but i am confused how they exist.

Is the basic idea that whenever you make a decision, another universe in which you chose something different is created? I've read theories about that kind of thing and i'm just wondering if that's where Nocturne and Salamander and everyone come from.....
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Post by Gaz »

By the way i don't even want to go into the past and future thing. whenever i start to think about it i get WAY too philosophical and end up a mega-ultra-thought-induced headache....
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Post by Bamfette »

Originally posted by Gaz
Is the basic idea that whenever you make a decision, another universe in which you chose something different is created? I've read theories about that kind of thing and i'm just wondering if that's where Nocturne and Salamander and everyone come from.....
yep pretty much. I believe it is called the 'many-Worlds' or 'Timeline Divergence' theory, proposed by theoretical physisist Hugh Everett. The number of alternate realities is countless. i mean literally, countelss. not thousands, not millions, not billions, not trillions... the posibilites are literally very nearly infinate. Some of these are vastly different, like think, if dinosaus had never died out, if life had not developed on Earth at all, or aliens had taken over the earth 500 years ago kind of different, some... not so much. Wolverine decided to have cerial instead of toast for breakfast, for instance. :p

Now, events in the 616 reality have changed to such a degree that the Days of Future Past reality can no longer happenas the ACTUAL future of the 616 reality. Because someone, or a number of someones, made choices contrary to what would lead to the series of events that would cause that future. That does not mean it does not happen in ANOTHER reality. It's just that when things changed to such a degree that it became impossible in 616, It diverged to become its own reality, lets call it 617. and 616, the one we follow, has a new future in store. We wont know what that future is until it comes to pass, because even if a writer shows the future, it is still possible to avoid that future by altering choices and events in the present.

here is a really really really in depth FAQ about the Many-Worlds theory: http://www.hedweb.com/everett/everett.htm
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Post by Harlekein »

Yeah, you just have to see 616 as a tree with many branches. And if we really want to go over our heads: In the future where Logan took cerial and not toast, he might later decide to drink milk instead of beer, causing another branch to be created.
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Post by Bamfette »

and don' even think of 616 as the 'trunk' reality. 616 is a branch of a branch of a branch ad infinitum, and then 616 has countless branches, which have countless branches of thier own, etc. you gotta think HUGE when thinking of concepts like this. the 'trunk' reality, reality #1... if there is such a thing, is probably incredibly removed and different than anything we can even imagine. really, the Exiles are probably confined to an infantesimally tiny portion of this tree, or what we have seen thus far in the series would not have so consistently resembled the MU so closely. in my mind, there are different groups of Exiles for different branches.

... you know. in theory. :p

i love all this stuff. total sci-fi buff. :D

throw in the Chaos Theory, and now we're talking. the fate of the world could fall on Logan's choice of cerial or toast because of the chaos theory and the culminative results of that decision. fascinating stuff.

the Chaos Theory is what makes Exiles work. in comic book science, anyway. the bank robbery they fail to stop in one reality causes that one reality to collapse upon itself. doesn't sound so bad if one collapses, until you remember that every single reality has trillions upon trillions of alternate realities forming off of it every single day. hell, screw every day, every second. every irreversable event with multiple outcomes in the entire universe causes atleast one new reality, usually more. If the trunk on which one reality originally stemmed collapses, this (in the Exiles comic book science... not really sure about real-world physics on this one), this creates a domino effect, and all realities that sprung from that reality cease to exist. think about it. a near infinate number of realities, perhaps thier own, vanishing in the blink of an eye because the Exiles failed on thier one little tiny section of the tree.
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Post by Harlekein »

Exactly Bamfette. I love those kinda theories. I merely used 616 as the tree to simplify it all. And that's why there are also Weapon-X and stuff. So many groups most likely, so many missions etc. Its all just... so cool.
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Post by Siona »

Scientists in both reality and the X-universe believe there to be countless of alternate universes out there.

Take this for example: X2.

What if Jean HADN'T died? What if Kurt HAD killed the Prez? What if Logan HAD found out who and what he is from Stryker? What if Stryker had SUCCEEDED with his plan? What if Yuriko DIDN'T die (which I am fairly she didn't. :D )

There's a theory out there that, kinda like a tree, the present (the base) branches off into dozens and dozens of possible happenings. Nocturne, Blue, and Salamander are all products of these different realities.

Just think about it right now: There could be another you, doing something totally different at this very moment...

BTW, Bamfette, I'm wondering; who's the red guy with wings in your sig? Azrael?

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Post by Harlekein »

We basically just said that Siona but thanks for reposting it.
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Post by Phoebe Mittens »

Originally posted by Siona
BTW, Bamfette, I'm wondering; who's the red guy with wings in your sig? Azrael?
I believe that "guy" is called Jillian and has just appeared in the latest Uncanny. Look closely - it's got boobs! :LOL
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Post by Shadow_Dancer »

I have a question, and forgive me if it was already anwered somewhere in this thread and I missed it. :?

I know about Salamander. But who is his mother? Or wasn't that ever revealed.
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Post by blauliebeself »

Speaking of alternate universes, and how decisions can lead to them, i had no idea when i posted that question that i was going to get a lesson like that! i too, am i lover of science and theory, and i LOOOVE :love the replies that i've seen! Amazing! In theme with the x2 "what if's" i'm going to start a new thread! So, does anyone think writers ever take this stuff into consideration when writing a new comic?
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Post by Siona »

I think so, and if they don't, they should. Sometimes, X-Men isn't very logical but it usually is and I think that's one of it's best factors.

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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Originally posted by Shadow_Dancer
I have a question, and forgive me if it was already anwered somewhere in this thread and I missed it. :?

I know about Salamander. But who is his mother? Or wasn't that ever revealed.
Salamander was only briefly mentioned in a Millenial Visions....we dont even know his name, let alone his mother.....
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