Question about Bamfing....

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:58 am

So I was waiting at the bus stop today wishing I could bamf into a bus, and then I thought about what if kurt goes to bamf somewhere like into a chair and someone sits down right as he goes to.......i know his bamfs take less than half a second to happen, but what if....his eyes where closed and he didn't see the person sitting down or whatever? Would he just be in them like he would be in a wall if he couldn't see where he was going?.....

Born Blue · Post by **Born Blue** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 3:49 am

The two would merge and Nightcrawler would die....

But since the above sentence has less than 50 characters, let me mumble on for just a bit. mumble mumble mumble... There, that should be good.

CuteLittleBamf · Post by **CuteLittleBamf** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:46 am

Yes I think it would happen just like a wall. I think the other person would die too.

But here is a physics question for you, if the bus were moving and he bamfed on since he maintains his velocity wouldn't he be thrown back at the velocity that the bus was going in the opposite direction and if that is so hasn't he done a lot of bamfing onto fast moving planes and stuff without that happening. Sorry I'm a science nerd. By the way great book= The Science of the X-Men by Yaco and Haber warning some of it gets kind of technical and you will need to have taken higher physics to get it.

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:56 am

There's been a lot of mention made of the "conservation of velocity" thing, which means that if he's going 100MPH when he t'ports, he'll come out at the same speed. You bus hypothesis is 100% spot-on. Though he should have no problem teleporting from one spot of a flying plane to another (speed being relative and all), the few times he's teleported onto moving planes from a "standing start", with no problems, sound like "Whoops! We screwed up!" no-prizes to me. Many years ago, when blindly teleporting about a mile straight up (to escape an underground prison) in the middle of a raging storm, he had to bleed off his terminal velocity by "skydiving" for an updraft. Only after he found said updraft, and was at an almost motionless apex of flight, did he dare to teleport down to just above a lake. (Where he fell in and almost drowned, but that's neither here nor there....)

For truly interesting physics, I personally liked one bit when Kurt "bled off" velocity by reversing his direction. That is, as he was falling, he teleported in such a manner that instead of continuing to fall down, he "fell up". I'm going to have to see if I can find that The Science of the X-Men book somewhere. Thanks for telling us about it. It sounds like a fascinating read. I LOVE technical stuff like that.

CuteLittleBamf · Post by **CuteLittleBamf** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 5:46 am

By the way, along the same lines...if nightcrawler where to bamf into something...or someone (the question goes for kitty materializing in a phase too) since matter can't ever be in the same space at the same time as other matter would there be some big implosion or something...would anti-matter be created? Hello is there a physicist in the house tonight?

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:38 pm

:LOL I'm not a physicist, but I play one on TV...

On a couple of occasions, he's used teleportation as a weapon. He's perfectly capable of teleporting limbs off of people. The Age of Apocalypse 'Crawler had no qualm about t'porting off some's head, let alone their fingers, but since our boy is a lot nicer (and better adjusted) than that, he simply choses not to. He has teleported things into inanimate (robotic) enemies on occasion. In these cases, he uses an object which is made of material stronger than the victim he intends to shred. The result is a small explosion as the tougher matter violently disrupts the less-durable matter. (It should be a BIG explosion, in my opinion, but that's just me....)

This doesn't go to a molecular level: there's still plenty of space between molecules, let alone atoms, that isn't disrupted in the least. And I have to believe that this particular attack is rather hard on our boy, considering the feedback he's sure to encounter. He doesn't do it very often. (Of course, that might also be due to whoever's writing him at the time....

)

If Kitty should ever materialize herself into a wall or other durable matter, the result is the same as for NC; she'd be seriously maimed or dead. Though she doesn't seem able to "phase" another single portion of someone, she is perfectly capable of phasing an object into someone, or phasing someone into an object, and letting go.

Like NC, she's got a conscience and aversion to maiming, let alone killing, her opponents, so she doesn't do this. It's a good thing, too. If she went vicious and killed people, she could do it by just phasing with them into the ground and letting go. No one would ever find a body.

This is where the EVO universe gets awful loopy. When Evo-Kitty phases someone into an object and lets go, she doesn't hurt them in the least. She just traps them in there until they can either break themselves out (if they're strong enough) or she phases them the rest of the way. This includes herself: she's gotten stuck "between" things before when Wanda ("Scarlet Witch") mucks with her powers. I

The same goes for Nighty. n the latest EVO episode, "No Good Deed", Nighty got "redirected" (again, by Wanda) in mid-port and wound up in the middle of one of those big spotlight set-ups like they use at football games. The result? He cracked the spotlight rig in two and appeared in the middle, he and his passenger confused, but none the worse for wear.

Of course, this being a kid's show, I guess they kind of have to mess with physics a bit. Otherwise, Kitty becomes too damned lethal, and Kurt's teleporting a bit more dangerous for him to use. I don't think any kid wants to think of what would REALLY happen if something materialized inside something else....

TheSpike · Post by **TheSpike** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:40 pm

For the question about Kurt portin into something or kitty de-phasing inside something, I think they just wouldn't be able to do it, because of paradox (if there are time paradoxes there certainly are space paradoxes too, even tho both are relative), I mean, the universe understands there´s a wall there and a second later there´s a wall AND Kurt, i think he would be spat out because it is not possible for 2 bodies of matte to exist in the same spot at the same time blah blah blah...

(does what I just said make any sense?)
(Sorry I'm just a Mage:the ascension buff)

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:44 pm

Wellll... In Excalibur, Kurt actually did 'port into a wall at some point. I didn't read that issue (I'd stopped collecting by then), but I heard it got VERY messy and VERY painful for him. Like MovieKurt, Comic Kurt has nightmares about porting into something. He knows how much it'll hurt. There are other times when Kitty has had to phase for long periods of time. In one early episode, she had to phase to avoid being crisped by a wall of lava, and knew she had to stay phased all that time while she "swam" out of it, or else she was one crispy critter.

BOO · Post by **BOO** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:26 pm

*reads Gaz's post* eww could you imagine the mess if he were to merge with someone on a fast moving bus? I would rather not, my mind makes this more graphic than it needs to be. Well that explains why the busses in my city are so sticky

, they're failed

attempts! *is never getting on a bus ever again*

NightFlight · Post by **NightFlight** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:40 pm

My question is, how does Kurt know what will happen if he teleports in the same space as other objects, if it hasn't already happened? I guess this is more directed towards the Movie Kurt. I suppose he should be careful even when teleporting somewhere he can see, such as an open field - if he reappeared too close to the ground, he might get a blade of grass stuck in his foot, and I bet that would get all painful and infected :ick

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:32 pm

Hmmmm, never thought about that, Nightflight. Probably just bamfs to 6 inches or so about the ground so that he doesn't bamf into any objects.........

And how exactly could Kurt bamf off specific parts of people's bodies, like head or fingers? Is it something he can control more or less? That makes his power like 100 times dedlier.....

Ooooh I have more nerdy physics question....

What if Kurt bamfs into the innermost part of a blackhole? Would it react to him the same way as it would to something just entering it?

What if he bamfed into the portal-thingy that he travels thru? Would he be spit back out somewhere random?

*head explodes*

NightPoofer · Post by **NightPoofer** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:56 pm

I was kinda wondering about that too, except on lighter terms. Example: A bug was flying around and he bamfs right into it... Then the bug would be inside of him... Who knows! Kurt might have bugs floating around in his blood! (Though that's impossible for many reasons.)

CuteLittleBamf · Post by **CuteLittleBamf** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 12:42 am

The Black hole is an infinite benditure of time and space....so he'd be sucked in by the extreme g force and be put into a space that is infinitely small. Just like if he were sucked in. But I don't think he could even port in after the horizon line. He would have to port right above it to be sucked in. Why he would want to do this I don't know.

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 2:44 am

According to canon, Kurt has an innate sense of space and location. It's strictly subconscious and automatic. He always "knows" where he is, and if he can see his location, he "knows" exactly what is in there, and how to get ther while avoiding it. I always see Kurt as someone who tends to 'port in an inch or two off the ground, no matter what, just to be safe. Notice how often he 'ports in near the cieling and falls to the floor? That's because it's a safe spot. People don't mill around on the cieling, nor can they just leave stuff lying around up there.

I figure that his fear of 'porting into a wall is from one of two things (perhaps both). He could have had a "minor" 'porting accident in his youth, maybe getting a twig in his thigh, or getting too close to something and catching his clothes in a wall. One would be painful and injurious, the other just damned scary. Depending on the writer, either he'd be unable to move away from a wall because his long-sleeved jacket is "fused" into it, or there'd be an explosion and bye-bye sleeve. Or it could just be something he's rationally thought about and considered. After all: you don't need to have personal experience with a shark to be afraid of swimming next to one.

As for bugs and so on, supposedly Kurt can "push aside" gas and liquids when he ports, which is why he can 'port into water without a problem. I think that means really light stuff, like dust, leaves, small insects, and so on, would be similarly "pushed aside" as he reappears. It's the heavier stuff that would be a problem, and let's not even talk about "immobile" stuff like walls and boulders.

I'm not sure what the physics are of his teleporting with only part of an object, but since it's listed in the books, it's canon, now, so he can indeed do it. He's just way too pacifistic to do it. If he won't shoot people dead with a gun, he wouldn't use his power to rip their heads off, either. But, you're right: it does make his power a lot deadlier, doesn't it?

As for 'porting into a portal, that's something 100% up to the writer. Man, anything could happen with that. You've got a power that only vaguely follows physics interacting with a power that could ignore phyisics completely, depending on whether it's generated by technology, magic, cosmic will, or whatever.

Born Blue · Post by **Born Blue** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 4:19 am

I figure that his fear of 'porting into a wall is from one of two things (perhaps both). He could have had a "minor" 'porting accident in his youth, maybe getting a twig in his thigh, or getting too close to something and catching his clothes in a wall. One would be painful and injurious, the other just damned scary. Depending on the writer, either he'd be unable to move away from a wall because his long-sleeved jacket is "fused" into it, or there'd be an explosion and bye-bye sleeve. Or it could just be something he's rationally thought about and considered. After all: you don't need to have personal experience with a shark to be afraid of swimming next to one.

In an issue of Wolverine, Kurt ported a big piece of metal into a robotic version of Thing. It bonded with the metal becoming one and destroyed the robot. So Kurt has indeed seen the effect of porting solid into solid.

Deadcell · Post by **Deadcell** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 4:03 pm

The atoms would fight for space and there would be an explosion on the scale of an atomic bomb

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 4:41 pm

Originally posted by Deadcell
The atoms would fight for space and there would be an explosion on the scale of an atomic bomb

I don't know about that. I mean, there's a lot of space between molecules, atoms, and so forth. If he can "push aside" liquids and gasses as he rematerializes, it sounds like the 'port isn't "jarring" enough to split atoms. It takes a lot of power to rend nuclear bonds, and I don't think NC's teleportation is up to the task. Not to say it wouldn't "split" him if he screws up, but it wouldn't go down to a molecular level.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:41 am

If he were to somehow acci.dentally bamf into, say, a flying bug, couldn't he just feel it suddenly in him and bamf away and leave it, no harm down unless he bamfs and it ends up inside an organ or something......

CuteLittleBamf · Post by **CuteLittleBamf** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:41 pm

I think there is a good chance it would end up inside an organ....we're not sporting alot of empty space in there.

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:09 pm

If Kurt can "push aside" liquids and gasses when he teleports, he can easily push aside very small things such as dust and insects. Otherwise, considering how many gnats, flies, and various other bugs are constantly in the area, he'd always be causing himself internal damage of one kind or another.

Siona · Post by **Siona** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:40 pm

Ha ha, I can only imagine...

: UGH!!

: What's wrong?!

: I...I bamfed into a bug.

~Siona

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:39 am

So is there like a size limit to what he can 'push aside'? Like, anything larger than a butterfly can't be pushed or something? That seems so dangerous......

desaa · Post by **desaa** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 2:55 am

It would be really bad if when he bamfed and he got a bird stuck in him

TheSpike · Post by **TheSpike** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:57 am

no, i think birds would be pushed aside... in fact, i think anything in the air (or water) would be displace

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:03 am

Oh yah, could he bamf into water and all of it be pushed aside? if he were underwater, could he bamf pockets of air towards his nose or mouth to help him breathe? If he can bamf into gases and liquids, where is the line drawn between liquid and solid? Could he bamf into jello painlessly?

....uh oh..........*head explodes again*