Should Nightcrawler lead the Uncanny X-Men?

Malice · Post by **Malice** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:39 am

First off I'd like to say that I have been away from here for a long long time, so if this was brought up or anything in the past I truly apologize.

Should Nightcrawler lead the Uncanny X-Men? I mean, he has the experience to do so but in all honesty, in my eyes he doesn't have the presense (Please don't throw sharp objects, I bleed easily)

Warren looks like he could manage it, and it looked to me like Havok was blurting out orders in the last Uncanny X-Men I read. Both seem very sutable to me. Anyway, its just an opinion. I still love the fuzzy dude!

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:53 am

Kurt in UC #423 told Scott that he was sharing leadership of the team with Warren. But as of UC #425 it seems Havok has taken responsibility over for Warren by inviting Juggernaut to be part of the team. Kurt as a leader? He can lead, but Kurt tends to play a little as well. I'd rather see him as a team member than a leader. And, yes, I love the blue fuzzy elf too!:tail

NightFlight · Post by **NightFlight** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:07 am

I don't think Kurt wants the responsibility of leadership, although he leads effectively when he has to. He became team leader in Excalibur because Brian had his problems and was unreliable, and everyone else looked to him anyway. It wasn't really something he chose.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:55 pm

Kurt IS leading the team.... after Holy War, he and Havok are co-leading... and i think he'll fo a fine job.

msgt · Post by **msgt** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:29 pm

I still think Warren should lead the team. He's an original X-man. I don't see why Alex and Kurt should be the leaders. Sure they got experience, but still Warren has been at the game longer and is a founding member.

mike

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:42 pm

so is Bobby, doesn't mean i want him him leading a team...

kurtlover · Post by **kurtlover** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:05 pm

Kurt was the team leader of Excalibur...that means he has experience.
I think Kurt will do a good job, he was a great team leader in Excalibur.

NightPoofer · Post by **NightPoofer** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:19 pm

O! Kurtlover took my point! Kurt was a lead roll in Excalibur and I thought he did very well. So why would Uncanny be any different?

Malice · Post by **Malice** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:48 pm

Well, in Excalibur he sort of got forced into being the leader. Brian had his alcholic problem and the rest of the team just sort of looked at Nightcrawler for answers and leadership. I remember a brief stint as leader of the X-Men from way back before Excalibur was formed, when Storm took leave. He was very unsure of himself then, and gained more confidence when he was in Excalibur. It looks like he can do the job when needed, but I would much rather see Warren or Alex take the helm. Just my opinion.

Nighty still RULEZ!

Bamf Bunny · Post by **Bamf Bunny** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:54 pm

Though when Kurt led the Uncanny team back when (it's in the 190 range), he was bad at the job and always frustrated. He seemed more comfortable as a team member than wielding the authority - and the accompanying separation - that came with being the boss.

He was a good leader in Excalibur, though - maybe because Kitty'd come to look up to him over the years, and Rachel, Captain Britain, and Meggan were too screwed up to want the job.

Born Blue · Post by **Born Blue** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:25 pm

Kurt used to lead the X-Men waaaaaaay back in the day.

Yma · Post by **Yma** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:26 am

I'm not sure how good a team leader Kurt would make.
I don't think he has the right attitude, to be honest. I think that, when he's around people whom he looks up to, and I mean REALLY admires (e.g. storm, Cyclopse, Wolverine) he'd probably want to differ leadership. It think part of him wants to live up to peoples... expectations, to prove himself. He'd be uncomfortable doing that in a leadership position.
Gah, I made him sound so insecure, which he's not but.. I think he would be a little bit self concious as a leader.
I mean, take Scott. Now, Scott would never sit back and ask himself, 'would Warren/Jean/Hank... ect. do the same thing I've done? Was I a good enough leader compared to... He's secure in his own decision making process, and (with the exception of Xavier) he doesn't feel to selfconcious about his decisions.
Kurt, on the other hand, I think would feel a bit that way. We must remember, with Excalaber, most of the members were junior. I mean, Kitty's and Rachel were both fairly young, Meggan (from what little I know) did't seem to be big in the superhero buisness, and Captain Britain was drunk most of the time. So there was no one really for Kurt to look up to, to live up to, unlike his stint leading the X-men.
Now, he did a great job in Excaleber, and I think he'd do a fine job leading the X-men, but I don't think he'd like it or be comfortable, and I do think that, long term, it's better he share that responsiblity with someone, e.g. Angel.
Just my opinion, please don't hit me too hard, ok?

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:51 am

and that is exactly why Chuck is having Kurt as CO-Leader with Havok. they are a team, think of it as good-cop bad-cop. Kurt's the good-cop.

Panz · Post by **Panz** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:32 am

I think that whether Kurt is a good leader or not depends on who is writing him at the moment

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:44 am

When Kurt was promoted to team leader of teh X-Men way back when he kinda got the job because he was the best they had at the time...the team at that time was:

Logan didn't want it...and everyone else was too young

Dracadancer · Post by **Dracadancer** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:18 am

Not so much a matter of Kurt second guessing his leadership skills or comparing himself to the leaders of the other teams, the problem lies more in the fact that since Kurt is everyone’s friend the others members of the team don’t really consider him “the boss” and have issues taking orders from him sometimes. It’s much the same problem he had back when he was leader of Excalibur. He's a good leader but he'd probably be at his best as a leader if he had a team started from scrach and not one made up of people that know him well.

Alex really has the most experience leading, as leader of X-Factor, but Warren seems to have the potential to be a good team leader too since he's matured a lot lately. Kurt would probably be happier if he wasn’t leading at the moment and Alex is reasonably the best person to take the reins for the time being, especially since he seems to have gotten over worrying about being as good a leader as Scott, with Kurt and Warren helping him out. The real problem at the moment seems to be the Uncanny team in general. Who’s on the team seems to vary from issue to issue making Uncanny look like a catch all for whoever wants to go on a mission. It makes it hard to get a real team mentality going when everyone is running around doing their own thing.

Malice · Post by **Malice** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:52 am

I agree with you completely, Dracadancer!
Lately, the Uncanny X-Men do seem like a team of random players.
Its almost as if, and please don't get me wrong because I pretty much
like every character on the Uncanny team, that they are a team of leftover
X-Men after splitting them up with New and Xtreme. I think Chuck is great
but I hope he solidifies the team a bit more though.

Vee_EmmCee · Post by **Vee_EmmCee** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:31 pm

Yeah, from what I've read lately, there is no real "team" in Uncanny. It's whoever and whenever.

I think Kurt would be a good leader as long as he has someone with him, like now, Havok. I do love kurt very much but I don't think he has the total leader potential.

TheSpike · Post by **TheSpike** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 1:12 am

We have to considerr that Nightie is in kind of a crisis rite now, having doubts and stuff, so I think Warren or Havok should do it...

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:47 am

I'm guessing this whole Draco thing will be something of a growth experience for Kurt...a real kick in the pants. It'll force him to get his act together and he'll be the type of Nighty he was when he led Excalibur...

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:04 am

Kurt is kinda over his crisis of faith. that was the whole point of Holy War. as was Cyke's little speech to him. knocked some sense into him abotu his recent behaviour, and he resolved to change that by stepping up to the plate.

anyway, i just want to say that just because he was an unsure leader WAAAAY back, does not mean he will be that way NOW. after he led Excalibur, he grew a great deal, nevermind his first experiences as a leader of the X-Men or the situation that led to him leading Excalibur. that doesn't matter right now. what matters is: was ultimately he good at it? towards the end, did he have the confidence he lacked early on? i say yes. he grew much more confident as a leader over his time as the leader of Excalibur to a much stronger and more confident leader than he was when he started.

and Dracdancer refer to what i said above about good-cop/bad-cop :p I even dug up an email from Chuck Austen where he explained it to me wiht almost your exact words. i had to sift through around 200 messages, better appreciate this :p

> anyway . pleeeeeeeease *big puppy eyes* will you tell me who the leader will
> be after it is resolved? this really has me thinking lately...
> pleaspleaseplease....

Kurt and Havok will share. They become good, fast friends almost instantly
upon Alex waking up, and *censored secret stuff*

Kurt comes to the realization that he wants more responsibility and respect,
but he also wants people to like him too much to be effective all the time.
Some big realizations coming in Holy War. It's in his nature to be genial
and liked, and that's why he's been "technical leader" but not actually BEEN
leader. His personality and fun-loving side tend to lead him into being more
effective as a CO-leader, which Alex also understands about himself.
Together, they are very cool. I love writing them. He and Alex agree to
run things together when *censored secret plans even tho i think they've been changed now*.

he's no Cyclops, but he's not a worthless leader either.

Nandireya · Post by **Nandireya** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:14 am

I never thought Kurt was a bad leader...even when he lead the X-Men way back when he didn't do a completely crappy job. Xavier would never have given him the job if he didn't think he was up to it...Storm wasn't eager to take on the mantle when she first got it either. Kurt's teammates had more faith in him than he had in himself...that probably helped him a lot...

Magic Rabbit · Post by **Magic Rabbit** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:16 am

Kurt has the experience. He was doing the occasional team leader bit even before Excalibur. He's got the poise as well - most of the other Xmen respect him and are willing to follow him. Though the point was brought up that Kurt is "everyone's friend" and thus can cloud things over a bit.

I don't think Warren should be anywhere near a leadership role: he's a businessman who's proven that he doesn't even know what's going on within his own company. That's not a quality of leadership, that's sheer ineptness. He should take a backseat to Kurt and Alex (who has done his share of leadership as well).

Of course, I keep thinking back on Excalibur: Kurt was basically the leader from the beginning when it was obvious that Brian couldn't do the job.

CuteLittleBamf · Post by **CuteLittleBamf** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:13 pm

I don't think it's fair to judge his leadership right now. He can be a great leader it's just a hard time for him. I wouldn't write him off. I think maybe Alex should be leader temporarily. (I agree with Magic Rabbit, never Warren.) But then when he has things better under control Kurt can take over again.

Malice · Post by **Malice** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 7:47 am

I think sharing the role of leader would be best for Kurt. I kind of like the idea actually. Havok just has that presence when he leads, and Nightie is like one of the guys. I know he'll do a good job when he has to lead, but I like the idea of sharing the role.