More Physics Crap from Gaz

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Sun May 16, 2004 6:23 pm

Yes, once again, I have been wasting my time thinking about the physics of bamfing.

We all read about how Kurt's bamfing into a dense enough substance such as a brick wall would damage him, but I was wondering about what damage it would do to the solid substance he bamfed into. I think that because his mass is combining with the mass of the substance he bamfed into, the two masses would be so dense, that they would somehow cancel each other out and leave a kind of empty space, like nothingness. I made a crappy image in Paint to demonstrate what I mean:

The places where his body and the mass of the intruding object meet cancels out and leaves emptiness, as you can see in the picture. I was wondering if this made sense to anyone else or if I'm just crazy.

Nightcrawless · Post by **Nightcrawless** » Sun May 16, 2004 10:06 pm

yeah, i get it!! EGAD! I GET IT! lol ur probably right...but i wonder the same--if he were to port into like a computer mouse or sumthing--would he just have a hole in himself the size of a computer mouse? or would it like be all bloody and oozy and ick? hmm..

CurlyyHairGirl · Post by **CurlyyHairGirl** » Mon May 17, 2004 1:34 am

I always thought that if he ported into something it would have to push some atoms out of the way to compensate, messy? Yes. Painfull? Extremely.

I your theory, I would tend to think that if his atoms and the atoms of the object he was ported into would be forced together, maybe fusing into different compounds, ultimately chaning his and the objects molecular structure.

But that is just me, and I am crazy:crazed

Darkholme · Post by **Darkholme** » Mon May 17, 2004 2:51 am

Except that matter cannot be created nor destroyed, only transformed. Kurt doesn't actually discorporate and reform when he teleports...he remains intact. Theoretically, the molecules of whatever he 'ported into would be displaced by his body, and then violently snap back into place, effectively liquefying whatever portion of him was inside the object.

Now, if Kurt had Colossus' steel skin (or Rogue absorbed both of their powers), or was wearing a suit of armor that was tougher than the wall, then odds are the wall would just shatter when Kurt teleported into it.

Another theory would be that whatever area Kurt would displace would be transferred to Azazel's dimension. In which case, Kurt would still be intact and whole, but stuck in a wall.

Garble · Post by **Garble** » Mon May 17, 2004 3:04 am

That's the way I see it.
It's essentially a matter-trade between dimensions.

I figgure, when he vanishes his body is swapped for an ammount of atmosphere from Azzy's dimension. when he returns, whatever is occuping the space he's appearing in gets replaced by his body along with atmosphere he's gathered while traveling.

Conservation of matter, baby!

I don't think there's any way it would actually hurt him. His power is able to puncture through the very fabric of the universe itself. Some bricks wont be a problem.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Mon May 17, 2004 9:19 am

yeah, but he's still gotta be careful as metioned. if he ends up inside a rock, he may be unharmed having displaced the rock to Azzy's dimension, but he would quickly suffocate if his head was trapped. not pleasant. or he could just have an arm trapped or whatever. not fatal and he could probably teleport out of it, i suppose... hmmm...

Post by **Elwing** » Mon May 17, 2004 4:14 pm

Stephen Hawking I'm not, but I haven't heard of matter canceling matter out. (and there's no antimatter involved, as far as I know) There might be nuclear fusion however. That would sure give a helluva bang!

And if the kurtmatter suddenly and forcefully displaces the wallmatter there will still be an explosion.
Whatever happens, it will be Fresh Pine and Yellow!

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Tue May 18, 2004 6:01 am

Well by cancelling matter, I was just thinking that the two masses would overlap and could not fuse because then the mass would expand, so they would probably either disappear together into the A.U. or combine in a sort of 'mixed media' of molecules. I know there have been a lot of discussions about him displacing things such as flies, water, etc. But I'm saying something really solid and worthy of causing damage. I was also wondering whether he could undo to bamfing somehow be bamfing back to the exact place he had come from immediatly, before the empty space can fill with anything, even air.

Born Blue · Post by **Born Blue** » Tue May 18, 2004 3:32 pm

This thread is a perfect example of why I'm an English Major.

Tracker · Post by **Tracker** » Tue May 18, 2004 8:44 pm

Originally posted by Man of Letters
This thread is a perfect example of why I'm an English Major.

Right on, brother!

That's the way I see it.
It's essentially a matter-trade between dimensions.

I figgure, when he vanishes his body is swapped for an ammount of atmosphere from Azzy's dimension. when he returns, whatever is occuping the space he's appearing in gets replaced by his body along with atmosphere he's gathered while traveling.

That would make sense with the idea that the smoke/smell is from the other dimension that Kurt uses to 'port.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Thu May 20, 2004 4:57 am

Yeah, like, the area where Kurt was is replaced by the air in the A.U., but before he appears in the place he's about to bamf, the A.U. has opened up before he arrives, so the smoke appears when he appears, which could also mean that the air he dispels is actually being thrown into the A.U.

NWKurt · Post by **NWKurt** » Fri May 21, 2004 1:58 am

O.K. here is my opinion.....

If he does materialize into an object (lets say air to begin), the air would be displaced - as it normally does when he 'ports as it is obviously less dense than his body or uniform.
If he materlialzes into an object that is more dense than anything he is porting with, it would create a serious problem. I believe that, as said before, it would be rather messy outcome if he wasn't careful where he is going. Now, lets use plastic for example. If you materialize into a remote control on the floor, obviously your bones in your feet are more dense than the plastic and would displace the plastic where the bone would be. However the skin, muscle and blood isn't as dense. So, the you would have part of a remote stuck in your foot, by having the bone surrounded by the plastic on the remote.....Ewwwww...MESSY indeed!

Perhaps, looking at the operational aspect on how he ports could be explored. If he has to know where he is going, he would have to materialize ABOVE the location all the time as even with a floor (or carpet) it does compress as you stand on it. What he would have to do is materialize above the object and allow gravity to pull him down onto the object he is going to.

Unless, in the microseconds before he materializes, he can expertly determine a hard surface to arrive at and not have to be pulled down by gravity and worry about compression of the surface.

As for me, I think about porting when I'm stuck in traffic on the way home from work all the time (I'm sure youve seen I84 in the evening Gaz

). If I had to do it, I'd have to say that I'd want to be about 1-2 inches above the location where I'd show up. Just for a little safety factor, ya never know if a rock, shoe, power strip, whatever.... may be lying around on the floor.

As for perminance, unfortunately, unless we get a time-dimention shifting mutant in Nightys close proximity IF he should make a mistake, no, I dont think it would be reversable. Sorry Kurt.

Am I goin' off the deep end? Waddya think?

**EDITED by a Moderator because double posting is against the rules**

Should add one thing.....

For a good example, think of how water displaces air. Watching a segment on TV on how to escape a car that is sinking in a river, I saw how the water entered the car and pushed the air out the back.

Well, likewise with Kurts case, the air would be displaced almost instantaneously. This is where we get our beloved BAMF!sound. Something like the opposite of what happens durring a lightning flash. The bolt vaporizes the air and leaves a vacuum. The crack of thunder is the surrounding air rushing to fill that void. Well, perhaps when Kurt 'ports, it is done a bit more gradually (slower displacement) and doesnt create the sharp crack of thunder, but a softer sounding BAMF!

Darn it Gaz, ya got me thinkin' about this non stop now!:D

I do apologize! My fault in not knowing what 'double posting' meant. It WONT happen again.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:52 am

See what I was thinking was kinda similar to that, only that the air or whatever is being displaced by Kurt's mass is being thrown into the alternate universe, so there is a large collection of air and other less dense substances floating around and being thrown into other places whenever he bamfed, kind of like stirring up the air between the worlds. Does anyone understand what I'm getting at?

Tatu · Post by **Tatu** » Fri May 21, 2004 4:21 pm

Originally posted by NWKurt
Should add one thing.....

If you wanna add something you should hit the "Edit" button on your post instead of double posting

kurtlover · Post by **kurtlover** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:26 pm

Yeah. But rules are rules so, No double posts please.
Also, guys, stay on topic.
Thanks

Shadow_Dancer · Post by **Shadow_Dancer** » Sat May 22, 2004 12:37 am

I don't quite follow how the masses would cancel out (and I am a scientist

) Everything I've ever read on Kurt's teleporting has said that his body would merge with the solid object causing tremendous pain and possible death.

In Excal #72 (I think) Kurt battles with a mutant named Sienna and she monkeys with his porting, throwing him and Kitty into solid bedrock. It is only Kitty's phasing ability that saves them both, and Kurt is in shock because of the accident.

btw Gaz, your diagram cracks me up

Garble · Post by **Garble** » Sat May 22, 2004 2:09 am

Originally posted by Shadow_Dancer
Everything I've ever read on Kurt's teleporting has said that his body would merge with the solid object causing tremendous pain and possible death.

That's what has always been speculated. But it's never been demonstrated, and I always thought it was a stupid assumption. Kurt's teleportation utilizes a portal that surrounds his body. So it's not like he gets taken apart and put back together. His molecules are always together, always intact.

Originally posted by Shadow_Dancer
In Excal #72 (I think) Kurt battles with a mutant named Sienna and she monkeys with his porting, throwing him and Kitty into solid bedrock. It is only Kitty's phasing ability that saves them both, and Kurt is in shock because of the accident.

Yes, but keep in mind that Kitty phased them AS they were teleporting, so apearing to be merged with the rock was most likely her power doing it, not his. His power is more like walking through a door. Kitty's is the one that does the molecule-intermixing schtict.

little Blue Lucy · Post by **little Blue Lucy** » Mon May 24, 2004 9:33 am

I aways just thought it meant that he would be smashed in between the object, and that's why he would be killed, but your theory is very interesting as well, Gaz.