Phantom of the Opera - Nightcrawler Connection :?

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Phantom of the Opera - Nightcrawler Connection :?

Postby chicory » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:10 am

:?Has anyone else seen this play? I just rented it last night (and couldn't get anyone else to watch it with me because its a musical :yech) Anyway, I really liked it.

I think it's #5 in the Nightcrawler Series where Christine and Kurt go to see the play. When I first read the issue where that happens I was a little disappointed because I thought the writer had misinterpreted Kurt's character when he implied that he was someone who didn't like showtunes. Maybe he isn't someone who likes them, but I always imagined he was a sucker for that kind of perfoming thing.

But, now that I've actually seen it I can imagine that it might be a really uncomfortable play for someone like Nightcrawler to have had to sit through. And now I think the writer was extremely brilliant for including it, besides it being a down-time scene (always apprec iated :love) the lead character's name is Christine!

This probably isn't a new thought for people on this site, and I may have been one of the last people to have seen a very old and popular play. But, I was all excited drawing the connections last night with Kurt's character, so I thought I'd post about it, hope nobody minds! :)

Spoilers for those who've yet to see the dvd/play

[spoiler]The most blatant example has to be the scene where the young Mme. Giry goes to visit the traveling fair with the rest of her class of ballerinas' in training. They walk past all of the contortionists, fire eaters, sideshow exhibits before finally going into a tent to see The Devil's Child. Inside of a cage (like the one in the Nightcrawler series) is a boy of a similar age to Mme. Giry at the time, about 10 or 12, wearing a sack over his head with the top tied to look like he has two horns. He's playing with a little stuffed monkey with bells on it and is trying to ignore all the jeering people. The man who controls the exhibit is said to be a gypsy (another similarity to Kurt's history) and tears the sack away to reveal his face, about 1/3 of which is grossly deformed. The boy scrambles to cover his face with the bag again and the girl is the only one who has any compassion for him. :( It was all very sad, and yet strangely familiar. (So, Kudos to the writer because this was a brilliant lead-in to the second story arc)

I guess I could go on, say something about how the Phantom, if he hadn't felt he had to hide himself from the world, could have been an accomplished in so many fields, from composing to architecture (Storm and other characters have commented time and again about how Kurt could be a great athlete, baseball player, gymnast, if only he wasn't a mutant)

The Phantom is obsessed and possessive of young Chistine to the point of madness. He's jealous and he murders people when his will is crossed. He's described as a pitiful creature of darkness, an angel of the shadows, and the target of his mother's loathing and fear (those aren't exact quotes)

There's a nice swordfight in the cemetery towards the end of the middle of the play. Which the phantom loses, being the twisted, misunderstood villain and all. He also writes a play entitled Don Juan and ends up staring in the play himself. Christine finds his presence mesmerizing (also a trait that Kurt has shown in the comics - with the ladies)

In the end he forces Christine to choose between a life with him or the death of her childhood friend and true love, the heroic Raoul. When she chooses to go to him to save her lover's life, the fantasy that the phantom had built up, comes crashing down and he tells her to take her man and go as he treats to the darkness of his cave. He's not there when the police come looking for him, and the opera house burns above them.[/spoiler]

I guess I just wondered what everybody else thought Kurt was going through when he had to sit through that play. Had he ever seen it before? Did he only not leave to be polite? Are musicals just not his thing? Considering what he just went through with the priest thing and finding out who his father was I wonder if it really did hit a bit close to home.

Last question: In Issue #5 someone, and I thought for sure it was Christine, says that PTO was the first play they saw when they first came to NY. Am I wrong? I read something somewhere that claimed it was Kurt who said that.

I hope this post belongs in this section - sorry in advance if it has to be moved.

(Editted to fix spoiler tags)
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Postby HoodedMan » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:15 am

Originally posted by chicory
This probably isn't a new thought for people on this site, and I may have been one of the last people to have seen a very old and popular play.


Oh, trust me, you're not... I just told my best friend that I hadn't seen Phantom of the Opera yet and she almost killed me; needless to say, she's a big fan. So I have a feeling that very soon I'm going to see it whether I'd like to or not. :smirk

When I do, I'll be posting. :P

Edit: And yes, it was Christine who said that. I have the issue right next to me.
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Postby kladyelf » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:34 am

I have some very fond memories of the musical, having seen it in Melbourne in year 9 (waaaay back in 1991) with the beautiful voices of Marina Pryor (Christine) and Anthony Warlow (the Phantom - notice that it's always a "the"? :)) - and later listening to the British version on CD with Michael Crawford as the Phantom

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Postby theatrepirate » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:48 am

Ah, Phantom. It was the first big Broadway musical I ever attended. And yes, when I read issue #5 and saw that Kurt wasn't keen on the musical thing, well I...as a drama director...well, I nearly cried! How could my elf-boy NOT like musicals?? (though the bit of insight into Wolverine's theatre opinions was humorous!) But, I never really thought about why he might NOT like Phantom until I read this post. Good point, Chicory!
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Postby Angelique » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:13 am

Well, a lot of that stuff that was in the movie wasn't in the musical, if I correctly recall. Some good points, nonetheless. Maybe this particular one, even without those flashbacks, might trouble Kurt a bit.
And the complaint I have heard most often about musical theater is a pretty common one, I guess. I have heard lots of people say, "Well, I don't mind opera, because at least they're singing all the time. But in musicals, they're talking, and then they're singing! It makes no sense!" I will not comment on the number of operas that have spoken dialogue and are still considered "real" opera. But we know Kurt has enjoyed an occassional evening at the opera. I just think that logically, it would make sense for him to enjoy musical theater, if perhaps not that particular production.

And someone who spent more time crawling around backstage, below stage, and in the flies (something about spending hours suspended 60 feet in the air working on lighting- nothing like it!!!) than onstage (and is still :yell about the fact that the best fly equipment in our fair state was still inadequate for that verdammt' chandelier!) I am glad to see that I'm not the only one here who thinks Kurt should enjoy musical theater!
But I took some comfort in knowing that at least :wolvie liked Boy from Oz!
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Postby CurlyyHairGirl » Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:33 pm

Maybe its not so much the singing and stuff like that, but the content of the play itself. Maybe he relates to the play because of his own life and that makes him uncomfortable, maybe he's just making excuses...but thats MHO.:shrug

I liked the movie...Raoul was hot *coughcough* :shifty
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Postby prettyminotaur » Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:49 pm

I've seen it twice, once in London and once in NYC. Breathtaking. And definitely appeals to the Kurt-loving side of me.
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Postby Crocodile Hunter » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:07 pm

talking about the movie or an play? :P
ive seen the movie, its good. But i havent seen a play.
mostly because they dont do broadway in here. ;P
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Postby Angelique » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:18 pm

I think we're kind of talking about both. Kurt, Ororo, Christine, and Logan see the play in Nightcrawler 5. But Chicory was referencing the movie.
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Postby chicory » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:39 pm

I was talking about the movie, but only because I thought the movie and the play were the same (at least mostly). I'll have to catch a theatre production at some point to see what the differences are. :)

(The plays probably don't have the flashbacks to the 19 teens - I'm curious now about what else was missing or added)

Thanks Northstar! - I have the books too, but I don't have access to them right now. I remember I had trouble figuring out who the balloon was pointing to when I first read it, but I thought at the time it made more sense for Christine to have said that.

I think you should listen to your friend and see it! It might be over two hours long, but I think it's worth sitting through for the story, the sets, and the talented actors, and the score is still stuck in my head, so it has to be good :) (I'm going to have to buy the soundtrack now, as soon as I decide which version is best)

[spoiler]Raoul was lovely and the better match for Christine. The safe, grounded, alternative who could be depended on to give her a happy life. I kind of perferred The Phantom though, with his stronger presence and passion - but he was a sociopath and a murderer, so Christine made the right choice in the end (the rose on the grave was the perfect ending - but I thought The Phantom should have run off with Mme. Giry instead of continuing to hold a torch for the much younger Christine (I couldn't help wondering who the father of Mme. Giry's daughter was) [/spoiler]

Does anyone know what the warning to Raoul about keeping his 'hand at the level of his eyes' meant? I couldn't figure that out. :?

And Nightcrawler definitely likes musicals. ;) A person can't have a background in performance and *not* love all that energy and drama :)
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Postby HoodedMan » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:34 pm

Originally posted by Angelique
And someone who spent more time crawling around backstage, below stage, and in the flies (something about spending hours suspended 60 feet in the air working on lighting- nothing like it!!!) than onstage (and is still :yell about the fact that the best fly equipment in our fair state was still inadequate for that verdammt' chandelier!) I am glad to see that I'm not the only one here who thinks Kurt should enjoy musical theater!


Haha, I know exactly what you mean. This last musical tired me out. Luckily enough, we don't have flies though. We just crank down our electricals... which is a pain in the butt, not to mention the arm... Yes, we have a small theatre. How could you tell? At least I don't have to do that much with the physical lights. I'm mainly the designer who programs the light cues.

I have the feeling I'm going :offtopic now. So, yes, I can't believe he doesn't enjoy musical theatre either. It seems perfectly suited to his nature. Not to mention theatre (especially musicals) are the best things in the world...
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Postby Angelique » Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:16 am

And I'm sure Kurt would be the sort who could also appreciate the technical aspects of theater as well as the artistry. (Especially if he could recognize as I do what goes into installing theatrical lighting systems. A prehensile tail, enhanced strength and flexibility, and a pair of gripping toes, in addition to absolutely zero fear of heights would have come in handy there!)
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Postby CurlyyHairGirl » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:02 am

Chicory:

The thing about keeping your hand at the level off your eye was to keep the noose from getting around his neck. If his hand was there, he could have gotten the rope off from around his neck when the phantom tried to laso 'im. Mme. Giry knew that the Phantom liked using ropes, so she warned him...he just couldn't listen.
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Postby chicory » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:22 pm

THanks CurlyyHairGirl! I didn't make that connection at all, despite all teh scenes with nooses. Shame she couldnt' have been less cryptic :)
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Postby theatrepirate » Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:39 pm

Originally posted by chicory

I think you should listen to your friend and see it! It might be over two hours long, but I think it's worth sitting through for the story, the sets, and the talented actors, and the score is still stuck in my head, so it has to be good :) (I'm going to have to buy the soundtrack now, as soon as I decide which version is best)

And Nightcrawler definitely likes musicals. ;) A person can't have a background in performance and *not* love all that energy and drama :)


Yes, I'm sure Nighty likes musicals. And I will always like the original soundtrack with Michael Crawford best. No one matches the emotion and the agony in his voice. And the Phantom character is all about the voice. As much as I liked the movie, the Phantom was just too hot. I always liked the fact that the Phantom wasn't much to look at, but his voice drew you into his character. (I Just have this thing with characters who are hideous on the outside but with something more going on underneath the surface ;) )
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Postby CurlyyHairGirl » Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:29 pm

Originally posted by chicory
THanks CurlyyHairGirl! I didn't make that connection at all, despite all teh scenes with nooses. Shame she couldnt' have been less cryptic :)


No problem, hon!
First couple times I saw PotO I had to ask my sister about it...though it was more cryptic then because the only movie out then was the Silent film version..heh.

got to watch it...it's really fun dubbing it, like they do on Mystery Science Theater 3000.;)
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Postby Jolinare » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:57 pm

nightcrawler appeals to me in the same way the phantom does. he's interesting looking, misunderstood by society and has lovely gothic character elements.

kurt's almost how the phantom would have been if he wasn't a bastard...ahhh.
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Postby JSherlock » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:09 am

Originally posted by Jolinare
. . .kurt's almost how the phantom would have been if he wasn't a bastard...ahhh.


Except that Erik is a completely batshit insane genius and murderer.
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Postby Jolinare » Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:02 pm

Indeed!

i like a badass, but i lik em fuzzy and sweet like our kurt too.

what i was saying that cirumstantially they're very similar, except kurt turned out nice and erik turned out a bastard. As they say, there's a fine, fine line...

:yell ooh, sexy devilish kurt! i like this!

[Edited on 20/2/2007 by Jolinare]
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Postby the_lone_bamf » Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:36 am

I was actually thinking about PotO today- but in relation to Ultimate Kurt.

With the kidnapping of Dazzler etc- it seems a lot more in tune. I mean, he had a less than kind past/upbringing (specifically I'm talking about the Weapon X influence) and was left with sort of... warped senses of right and wrong. He kidnaps someone who-- appreciates him, but doesn't love him (like Christine and her teacher) with the notion that given time she could learn to love him...

and then it all goes to pot.

I guess I should be glad that when the X-team went after him to rescue Dazzler- they weren't singing and dancing.
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Postby Bamfing_Bob » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:11 am

I actually never thought of it... that's really insightful...
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Postby the_lone_bamf » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:25 am

Just call me Captain Thoughtful. ^_~

Yeah, I actually went to the bookstore to sort of flip through some of the Ultimate TPB and see how that thread of the story went- while Ultimate Kurt is a far cry from 616- I'm definitely finding myself well.. sympathetic (I was totally a Phantom fangirl when I was like... 14... heh) and interested in his development as a character.
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