I'm With Nightcrawler

All Nightcrawler, all the time! THE place to discuss everyone's favorite fuzzy elf in all his various incarnations!
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Post by idsunki »

...is what I'd like to say in regard to Civil War, but Marvel hasn't let us know what side he's on. From the previews given of the Civil War X-Men mini-series, he may not play a big part at all.

So I turn the question to you guys - What side is Nightcrawler on, and (more importantly), why? Continuity buffs, here's you chance to get those back issues out. New readers, weigh in your opinions too!

If you don't know what this Civil War thing is, check this thread for some info (spoilers in the second post of it).

If there's one thing we're all good at here, it's speculation, so speculate away!
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Post by Confizzle »

Where is this in the timeline compared to "The Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire" Nighty could be out in space....
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Post by Angelique »

I wouldn't be surprised if he was against it. Having carried a badge with XSE, he would find superhero registration a bit superfluous. There have been and can continue to be ways for superheroes to work with and in cooperation with law enforcement withoug forcing them to register their talents or even their very bodies as if they were firearms.
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Post by chicory »

Since Nightcrawler's coming from the mutant stand-point, I wouldn't be surprised if he was against it either. The whole idea may seem like a violation of privacy or be too reminiscent of the Days of Future Past (which he saw through Rachel's experience) or of the Holocaust. Anyone growing up around gypsies / the Roma might be hypersensitive about that.

Also I think that while he would prefer to cooperate with society and the government, I think his experiences would make him just a little pessimistic about how how registration could be abused.

At the same time, I think that after all the battle training with the X-men and the continual training they all have to do to keep up with their powers, and the first hand experience of the responsibities and the dangers, maybe he would be for regulations that superheroes be properly trained.

Heh, I feel like the Sicilian in the Princess Bride. Either it's one or the other. I'll tell you when I decide ;)

I also think it's hilarious that there's an I'm with Nightcrawler banner but no one knows what that means as of yet. :LOL
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Post by Saint Kurt »

Originally posted by chicory
I also think it's hilarious that there's an I'm with Nightcrawler banner but no one knows what that means as of yet. :LOL
Ah. But I know what it means and I will tell you.

Last summer, around Wizard World, Nightscrawlers began a letter/email campaign to Marvel. The goal of the campaign: "Save Nightcrawler" as in the Nightcrawler solo series that was slated to conclude with issue #12 in November.

Forums, blogs, and comics sites picked it up and when we took the letter writing form down - we had sent over 500 pieces of mail to the big four executives that make the decisions like who gets cancelled and who doesn't. We couldn't save the book, but I hope we at least sent a message to Marvel that Nightcrawlers fans are a noisy and creative bunch and not just a bunch of drones who will buy whatever is for sale that month with the Marvel logo on it.

The Civil War banners got me thinking. It's true that in the scope of the story Nightcrawler hasn't picked a side, but maybe that's not what "I'm with Nightcrawler" means for us here at Nightscrawlers.

Just like last summer our mission was to "Save Nightcrawler", perhaps this summer our new mission should be to send the message out that we want to see Nightcrawler used in the comics and used well. The character development provided by the solo series makes him even more compelling and powerful a superhero than ever before. He's a great character still on the rise and it would be fantastic if this forum's mission was to return to its original roots and be a Monument to that character, coming up with new ways to encourage fans to speak up and be heard.

I made the banner because I wanted the Civil War tie in to become our own mission so that even when the crossover "event" is over we at 'scrawlers could still say "I'm with Nightcrawler" and mean it.

So that's why that banner is here. Because at Nightscrawlers, we're with Nightcrawler.

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{edited to include the banner. --SK}

[Edited on 22/5/06 by Saint Kurt]
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Post by The Drastic Spastic »

Nightcrawler would be for registration. While there've been a ton of attempts to talk him up as a leader, he's not a leader. He's not a lone wolf. He's not a revolutionary. He's just a nice, quiet guy. He was on the XSE team, in his series he worked with the cops, city council, etc. He plays nice with others. He would go along and register and be a good superhero.

Edit: btw, Captain America is AGAINST registration? That's a shock. I'm happy they went that way with the character, but still surprised. I'd actually assumed he was for it, before I read anything. I'll have to pick this one up.

[Edited on 22-5-2006 by The Drastic Spastic]
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Post by Confizzle »

I have to agree with Spaz, Kurt's probably for the regestration, unless they pull some "morally right" shit on us and have him be againest it.
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Post by Angelique »

I still don't think Kurt would see the point in it. He was well trained and worked well with law enforcement- all without being compelled to sign up with some government registry in order to do so.
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Post by Confizzle »

But would Kurt see a point in rebelling? I mean come on Madrox is a better leader than Kurt has been lately, I imagine that he'd go and register, and be one of the first ones, him easily complying with law enforcement just proves it.
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Post by Angelique »

But of course it wouldn't be morally right. It's unfairly targetting people who may choose to work with law enforcement just because of some accident of birth, or whatever, giving them different abilities.

It's like if I wanted to help a local police department, compelling me to register with the federal government all because I know how to use a sword.

Would Hawkeye have to register?

[Edited on 23/5/06 by Angelique]
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Post by Katya »

Saint Kurt, as the new person on the board, I lapped up the banner with much affection. I love Kurt with a passion! Why don't they use Kurt as much as they should? Of all the Marvel characters, he makes a statement alone with his uniqueness!
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Post by Confizzle »

Meh everyone's unique, Strong Guy, Madrox, Beast, Archangel, and with the inclusion of Azzy and company ;) Welcome to the board, please get rid of all sanity you have.

Anyway the are not targeting people, okay let's go thru the steps here, you can have powers but not want to be a superhero look at the mutants in Mutant town, the goverment will no round up all the superpowered people and force them to work, right now it seems to me yer preaching the "A world that hates and fears us" spiel or something like that. Also don't ya think a superpowered person would be smart enough to realize that they could help out in law the most by being a Superhero???

How exactly would you help a police deparment without becoming a police officer, run around in tights with yer sword. Let's face it do police deparments really need a person who knows how to use a sword they're so....Middle Ages....as for Hawkeye he'd have to register, but isn't he dead?
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Post by elfofdoom »

yes he dead scarlet witch killed him again. I don't know were I stand I stand With our beloved elf but I don't know why.
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Post by Angelique »

Might want to read the end of HoM again. It is quite likely that Hawkeye's back.

At any rate, there are ways to help out the police department without becoming a cop. If you witness a crime in progress, you don't sit around doing nothing, do you?
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Post by Confizzle »

Yes there are ways to help the police without becoming a cop, but the way you said it was that you're actually going to make it a profession, cause I mean does the goverment really give a rat's ass if you call in a crime or something and know how to use a gun/sword, will they come to have you registered, nope. As for the crime in progress thing, depending on the situation I'd call the police, I mean if the guy has a gun I'm not gonna play herorics and get myself killed, yes and trying to stop a crime in progress in called a "Citzens arrest" I'm sure they won't lock you up and force you to register if you tackle a guy who stole some bread. It's only if you want to be a superhero, which is why all of these repeating "If I stop a crime one, but have no superpowers, yet I know how to use a weapon" repiles surprise me.
I mean the Superhero regestration act is a bit like the NSA wiretapping thing...."Do you really think the goverment has nothing better to do than to listen to you on the phone?" = "Do you really think the goverment has nothing better to do than to force random people to register?"

As for Hawkeye being alive, doesn't anyone stay dead dammit.....
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Post by Angelique »

At least this time we can blame Wanda. ;)

The point I was trying to make is that there are already appropriate channels in place for people who want to go into full-time superheroics. If someone wants to work with local police, they apply with the local police department. If someone wants to work with the feds, they apply with a federal agency. If someone wants to be a soldier, they join the military. And if someone just wants to be a good citizen and help out wherever needed, they don't have to register with anybody to do that. It shouldn't matter if someone can detonate matter at the subatomic level, or is just really good at archery, for instance.

But I think what it boils down to is whether your regard a superhero as a weapon or as a human individual. Guns should be registered, not people. It's dehumanizing.

And if a super-VILLAIN blows up a school, since when is a superhero trying to stop him to blame?
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Post by Confizzle »

You see I view superheroes as a hybrid I mean they are humans or mutant, but the could level an entire city if they wanted to.

Isn't it also the superheroes fault if a villian isn't contained I mean it's a security officers fault if something happens at a school/stadium/airport and they fail to stop the person would did it. The New Warriors knew they were out of their league you don't send a small town police force to deal with terriosts or whatnot, they call in bigger and better trained teams like the New Warriors should have called in the Avengers.

Really people being registered is dehumanizing, don't all of us have to register for a Social Security card, for a drivers license, for a hunting license? We register for a lot of things and really it's not that big a deal.
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Post by Nandireya »

Does the registration actually state that they have to work for the government (after the lacklustre House of M and The 198 I’m not even bothering with Civil War)? Or do they just want a list of all the super-powered beings out there and what they can do like they might have a list of all the people with guns and an psychoanalysis of their owners in order to better protect the citizens?
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Post by elfofdoom »

face it cops are usless in comics.
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Post by Angelique »

Based on what I've read in the first issue, they want to make all superheroes federal employees.

What struck me when the X-Men showed up to help at the school- Wolverine said they were volunteering. Volunteers are not employees. Highly trained and yet still unpaid volunteers.

This is also not the same as applying for social security or a hunting license. This is saying that if you have a particular ability you may want to use to apprehend criminals (and you never know when the need may arise), you'll have to basically get federal authorization.

But I think everybody's missing the point. While Congress is putting the smackdown on all superheroes, and while superheroes are squabbling among themselves, [spoiler] Nitro's getting off scot free. [/spoiler] Let that be a moment of clarity for :iron!

[Edited on 31/5/06 by Angelique]
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Post by Confizzle »

Let this be a moment of clarity for you! Wolverine's hunting down Nitro Image I can't wait to see Nitro's "moment of clarity" as he gets three claws in his gut. Diasters always bring out said "moments of clairty" for everyone, that way they don't screw up again. But if you use your powers to stop a crime, then people will know who you are if you register or not, like I've said if you use powers once, yet have no intention of going into superheorics then the goverment doesn't care.

Remember everyone this is a SUPERHERO Regestration act, not a mutant regestration act. You aren't a bloody superhero if you use your powers once and that's it. Remeber everyone
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Post by Angelique »

Hadn't read that. Read that he [spoiler] skipped town in the back of a pickup truck. [/spoiler]

And superhero or mutant, this is all about either forcing people to stifle their abilities, or forcing them to work for the federal government, without offering them any other options for using their powers for good.

That's like telling an athlete, "You can do gymnastics for the government, or don't do gymnastics at all," and saying that it offers the individual complete freedom. Private detectives, bodyguards, and so forth who happen to be superheroes would face having to choose between working for the government and going out of business.

And what about, say, a precog who has no desire of being a professional superhero, but volunteers his or her ability to fortell the future to help out the neighborhood watch program? Is the government going to tell private citizens they cannot volunteer their time and talent as they see fit?

There are already laws on the books against vigilantism. If the government stuck with enforcing those, superheroes who screw up would be held accountable under the law. Superhero registration, however, is unnecessary.

Also, firing an unregistered gun even once is illegal. Heck, even owning an unregistered firearm is illegal. I'm only saying this because the book already drew a comarison between superhero registration and gun control. At any rate, I don't see how using unregistered super powers even only once is going to get a pass.

We also have laws in place already against vigilantism.
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Post by Confizzle »

If vigilate laws were in place in the MU, superheroes would be outlawed, it's a superhero universe and that's why the vilgilatism has worked for so long without a regestration act. I believe that the "athlete can't do sports" is a feeble agruement because let's face it in the end one athlete doesn't really matter, there is no benefit to the goverment if they were to forced to work for them, it'd be a waste of time. Let's face it the goverment is not a bunch of black helicopters(bunch of conspiracies). This could actually be good.

But the goverment can easily prevent heroes from screwing up or reduce it greatly if they make teams that are compatible with each other. Nearly all goverment run teams have succeded, I mean look at X-Factor, they got everything they need provided by the goverment and they were a great team. Regestration is good :hypno
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Post by The Drastic Spastic »

Originally posted by confusedelf
If vigilate laws were in place in the MU, superheroes would be outlawed, it's a superhero universe and that's why the vilgilatism has worked for so long without a regestration act.
No, they definitely have laws against vigilantes. Vigilantes are different from superheros because they dish out "justice" while superheros generally stick to helping people.

Okay, so you haveThe Punisher (who is/was wanted in the MU for being a vigilante, btw). He hunts random criminals down just so he can kick the shit out of them and then kill them. Whereas Spider-Man tied up the guy who murdered his Uncle Ben and left him for the police.

That is the difference.
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Post by Angelique »

And Confused, you may want to take everything you said about my argument regarding athletes and direct that to, say, China.
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