I heard a rumor!

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I heard a rumor!

Postby Feuerstein » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:58 pm

A while ago I heard a rumor that in 2007 an Ultimate X-men TV show would come out. I don't remember where I found that rumor except that it was on the Web. It may have been on either Wikipedia or Answers.com, neither of which I'm certain are trustworthy. Plus, I heard X-men 4 is in the works, so it's possible whatever site I found the rumor on got confused. But then again, it's been a while since we've had an X-men cartoon. It's about time for the next cycle, don't you think? So has anyone else heard anything about either the Ultimate TV show or X-men 4?

Also, I was wondering if anyone knows if the fourth season of X-Evo was ever released on DVD. Netflix only has through season three and I haven't been able to find it online, so I'm guessing lack of funds prevented its public release. It's too bad if that's the case. I haven't seen it in so long, and I would have loved to rewatch some of the Kurt/Rogue episodes, and the Apocalypse finale. *siiiiiiiigh*
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I heard a rumor!

Postby Bamfing_Bob » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:45 am

I loved the finale!!! That was the bomb! Sorry, no word on Season 4 though. Ultimate X-Men tv show would be awesome, first I've heard about it. X-Men 4 is a go I do believe, of course I've been wrong. However, I am quite confident that they are making a Wolverine solo as well as a Magneto solo. About time for a NIGHTCRAWLER solo!!!
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I heard a rumor!

Postby JSherlock » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:50 am

A Nightcrawler solo film would be awesome, however - as they've made movie canon Nightcrawler look a certian way with the blue skin and scarification, the poor actor would have to get up really early to have HOURS of makeup. Which is apparantly why poor Mr. Cumming didn't reprise his role in the third movie and I don't blame him! :(
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I heard a rumor!

Postby Bamfing_Bob » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:55 am

Exactly. I think the only way to do it is to start with a completely new Nightcrawler, unrecognizable with Alan Cumming. No scars, COMPLETELY yellow eyes, and better feet. Less religious and more fun-loving, swashbuckler-y.
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I heard a rumor!

Postby Feuerstein » Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:11 am

They absolutely couldn't use Cumming - not only did he hate the makeup, but he's currently on his honeymoon! ♥ (Or doing whatever with his new hubby. ^^)

I'd heard about the Magneto and Wolverine movies and, honestly, their stories are awesome, but they are also stories I'd rather read about than see on TV. (I am so not an FX girl. :D ) So I probably won't see them, unless I had the amazing luck to get a date and that date wanted to see them... I could make out while Wolverine slices'n'dices things. :coy

And I agree 100% that a Nightcrawler movie would need a new actor, new plot, new world, everything brand spanking new, because it's my humble opinion that, sweet as he was in X2, he also got rather cheated. (And I hate the scars with a passion.) But if a Nightcrawler movie was made, fans would clamor for Storm and Rogue and Cyclops movies too... And I'll shut up now, since most of what I want to say is more appropriate for other forums now.

So no news on Ultimate. It was probably just a rumor. But it'd be great if another X-cartoon was released, especially if it were geared at fans older than ten. You're never too old for cartoons, right?
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I heard a rumor!

Postby tsukechick » Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:53 am

That would be cool! ....Though I dunno, given the recent...implosion of everyone on the team, and particularly Kurt. Ugh, KIRKMAN, WHYYYY? :puppy
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I heard a rumor!

Postby Feuerstein » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:06 pm

Teehee! I'm a little excited about what's going to happen to Kurt in Ultimate. I saw previews for May and I'm hoping, hoping that he'll be dealt with carefully - if so, Kurt's story could get really interesting. Wish Kirkman had been a little more delicate with a mentally unstable character, but there's enough mystery to keep my interested.

:ultimate
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Postby tsukechick » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:15 pm

Kirkman seems to only be able to deal with interpersonal relationships in capital letters: "EVERYTHING IS FINE NO NEED TO DISCUSS OUR INNER FEELINGS" or "WHY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ME I MUST KILL YOU NOW!!!one!1eleven!" It was the "kill you" thing that really got me. Who the hell says that? Really? And he did it TWICE! First that Magic kid and then Kurt? C'mon. Honestly. :doh!

JP and Peter are cute and interesting. The rest of them make me want to bust out the clue-by-four and start beating. I'm reaaaally happy that they're going to give Kurt a few issues to hopefully resolve some of what's going on and give him something cool to do! C'mon, Kirkman, let's see you dig yourself out of this hole!

Anyway, back to Kurt on the TV: any idea if it's going to follow evo-style only (I imagine) re-designed? Or something more like the oldschool X-Men cartoon? OR (yikes) 3-D modelling?
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Postby Feuerstein » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:32 pm

Yup, I was slackjawed when Kurt's little kidnapping-slash-attempting-murder spree happened. I was really mad at Ultimate for a while, 'specially when he was reduced to a coma and all we saw of him was Xavier playing with his mind and everyone else basically pretending he doesn't exist. (Jean pissed me off majorly in the latest issue, but I forgive her for insensitivity since it was the day of Xavier's funeral.) But I'm interested enough to have faith that the writers can make up for the emotional trauma we underwent with poor Kurt. Can't WAIT for April. :holdbreath

Peter was just about the last guy I thought would turn out gay, but it's working for him, I think. Too bad it means, likely enough, no Kiotr, but that frees Kitty up for Kurt, and I really hope they get together. Kitty's sort of a pisspot in Ultimate, but it's the only chance we have for them getting together - it's just not going to happen in Uncanny, and they're so close in age in Ultimate... *siiigh* Back to Peter and JP - I kind of raised my eyebrows at JP asking Pete over for such a long time, just because I'm not certain JP was doing it for Peter's sake, maybe more just to get some action. But JP's given me no reason to suspect him of being shallow, and I hope it all works out for them (for as long as Marvel relationships are possible, at least. ^^)

As for the show, I honestly don't know - it was just something I read on the Internet. I assume it would be a cartoon, but if it's storyline is similar to Ultimate's then I doubt it'll be too much like Evo. Again, I don't have any substantial evidence that it's going to happen, for all I know whoever wrote whatever the heck it was I was reading was lying through their pearly-whites. But it's exciting to think about!

[Edited on 3-5-07 by Feuerstein]
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Postby love_of_bob » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:42 pm

Originally posted by Feuerstein
Teehee! I'm a little excited about what's going to happen to Kurt in Ultimate. I saw previews for May and I'm hoping, hoping that he'll be dealt with carefully - if so, Kurt's story could get really interesting. Wish Kirkman had been a little more delicate with a mentally unstable character, but there's enough mystery to keep my interested.


Kirkman has all the subtlety of a bulldozer. I seriously doubt he will handle Ultimate Kurt well. Mentally ill teenagers should be written with loving care and sensitivity, not shallow, over-the-top sensationalism which is what Kirkman has turned the Ultimate X-men into. *sigh*

Originally posted by tsukechick
Kirkman seems to only be able to deal with interpersonal relationships in capital letters: "EVERYTHING IS FINE NO NEED TO DISCUSS OUR INNER FEELINGS" or "WHY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ME I MUST KILL YOU NOW!!!one!1eleven!" It was the "kill you" thing that really got me. Who the hell says that? Really? And he did it TWICE! First that Magic kid and then Kurt? C'mon. Honestly. :doh!


You forgot Colossus' mighty battle cry: "I WILL BREAK YOU!":whistle
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I heard a rumor!

Postby Feuerstein » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:58 pm

True, that. But you make me sad. :bawl
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Postby love_of_bob » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:00 pm

Originally posted by Feuerstein
True, that. But you make me sad. :bawl


Awww. *hands you Bamf doll*
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Postby tsukechick » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:12 pm

I have no idea how they'll save the team at this point. Everyone hates one another, by and large, and I don't really blame them, since part of friendship is, yaknow, talking. Eh, they'd better get a new writer and fast! Kirkman seems to be a one-trick pony, and that trick is to kick somebody in the head. After awhile there's no one left.

Is it sad that "Kiotr" parsed as "Kurt/Piotr" in my head? >_> I mean, they WERE trapped in a closet together for a while! :LMAO

After seeing Kitty's consistently childish behaviour throughout the series, I wouldn't really want her to hook up with Kurt either. Emotionally, he needs someone stable. Jean or, before the whole awol business, Ali would have been my choices. I was surprised, actually, that Kirkman didn't use the whole situation with both Jean and Kurt being locked away from the rest of the team to have some behind-the-scenes stuff with them since of all the group, Jean was the first friend he had. Just poor storytelling. :shakeno

As far as JP and Piotr go, I felt the pacing of that relationship, at least, was good. They met and had a cute blushy moment, and then time went by and they saw each other every now and then, every time building on the "hey, I'd like to get some more time with that guy" and then JP finally asked him out. Right now I'd say the two have the healthiest relationship of ANY of the pairs going on now.

If they do make an Ultimates cartoon show, do you think they'll keep the JP-Piotr thing? It'd be a big step, for a show nominally for kids and specifically boys.
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Postby Feuerstein » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:37 pm

It would have to be Kuotr so we could tell them apart. :D

I agree with you about Kity (siiiiigh), but I really never liked Dazzler. I don't care for her much in 616 either, though through New Excalibur she's begun to redeem herself to me. She's always come off as a selfish, whiny character, particularly in Ultimate, and it doesn't help that her man of choice, Ultimate Warren, has only bored me. (But to be fair, I rarely paid her much attention in 616, so I'm not really qualified to argue her virtues and vices.) As for Jean, I could see that happening, though Ultimate Jean sometimes annoys me too - she's still the best choice of the female cast. But she already has practically every other male fawning over her. Why Elfie too?

What about Kurt/Rogue? I've always liked that pairing... Wishful thinking, though, likely enough. (But there was that one "What If" story...")

I felt bad for Peter and Jean-Paul because their first date was utterly fried. But they are definitely cute.

I'm thinking that if Ultimate does become a cartoon, it'll have to be like an Adult Swim thing, not an Kids WB thing. They've dealt with homosexuality and mental illness in other Adult Swim shows (mostly anime), so that would be an ideal place for it. The question would be how to gain viewers - anime already has its group of loyal fans, but as for American-made AS shows, they tend to be more along the lines of... insensitive, tactless and generally pointless. So they would have to really hype it up somehow.
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Postby tsukechick » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:12 pm

Kuotr...sounds like an exotic fruit. APPROPRIATE??? :LOL

Ali was perhaps the most "realistic" girl of the group. She called it like she saw it, and approached the whole school with a healthy dose of skepticism, which I respected as a character. I've historically disliked Warren's 616 incarnation (ooohhh so holier-than-thou), but Ultimate Warren was a cautious and sweet kid - a lot more like Kurt in fact. A wet blanket, though, sure, but there had to be someone to say "Uh, guys? Maybe this is a bad idea." Warren was that voice. Also I think it hit Kurt hard when Warren left - his one other buddy who couldn't walk down the street like the rest of the kids. Plus Piotr's "betrayal," and Ali's coma, Kurt had lost all his friends.

Aaanyway. Kurt/Rogue. Again, I don't think so. She's been extremely judgemental of everyone else, while having a big fat martyr complex herself. If Kurt was his old patient and happy self, maybe that would counter her endless angst, but at the moment they're in something of a "who is more twagic" competition, so there goes that possibility.

Frankly, for Ultimate Kurt, they need to bring in some new characters. If he ever gets back on the X-Team, which I really can't see happening anytime soon. Why the hell Xavier didn't bother to get that boy (and all the rest of them) some serious post-traumatic stress therapy a long time ago I don't know. Jean was seeing some therapist for a while - why just her?!

An adult-swim show would be best, yeah. Its the whole "who are comics really for?" question. A lot of people still see comics and cartoons as being just for kids. More and more shows, starting with the Simpsons, and on through South Park, Family Guy and now Adult Swim are seeing that the teen and adult market is extremely strong, but the X-titles aren't an original show and will probably get shoved on Kids WB for that reason. I can't imagine the bigwigs there would want to do anything so risque. Maybe they'll surprise me, though - I hope so!
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Postby love_of_bob » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:12 am

Originally posted by tsukechick
Aaanyway. Kurt/Rogue. Again, I don't think so. She's been extremely judgemental of everyone else, while having a big fat martyr complex herself. If Kurt was his old patient and happy self, maybe that would counter her endless angst, but at the moment they're in something of a "who is more twagic" competition, so there goes that possibility.


A-men. I dislike Rogue immensely. Kirkman apparently likes her, but fails to make his readers like her (or so I've gathered from reading opinions about her on various boards).


Frankly, for Ultimate Kurt, they need to bring in some new characters. If he ever gets back on the X-Team, which I really can't see happening anytime soon. Why the hell Xavier didn't bother to get that boy (and all the rest of them) some serious post-traumatic stress therapy a long time ago I don't know. Jean was seeing some therapist for a while - why just her?!


Because Jean was his darling.:yech

As for Jean/Kurt, there's also the fact that Jean's 20 and Kurt's 14-15. Ewwww, I say.

The one thing I liked about the annual? Seeing Kurt kicking the butts of the entire team. Especially the way he took out the mighty Wolverine. And let's face it: That Piotr got to him was just plain luck, unless he has a secret radar or something that could help him see Kurt's position through the earth. If Kurt had wanted to kill them, he would probably have succeeded.
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Postby tsukechick » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:46 pm

Jean is TWENTY? Dang. Yeah that's a bit of a gap there. :eek

Ultimate Rogue's started out quite cool - very, well tragic as I said, and sympathetic in the hands of Weapon X. I found her just as interesting as her 616 counterpart, and a lot more believable. Then Gambit happened and she absorbed his powers, possibly permanently. Okay. Interesting. Not worth LOSING GAMBIT FOR, but I'll come along with you...except that rather than actually explore the psychological impact that absorbing Gambit had on her, she's had two speeds: HAPPY! that she can have sex (which it's assumed that she and Bobby did, yes?) but mostly SAD! that Gambit is gone. And now she's UPSET! at what she saw in Kurt's head. This is clearly a ploy for suspense, for us to all go "oooh, what did she see?" But given Kirkman's apparent inability to go into any sort of satisfying detail about the emotional/psychological sides of his characters, it comes off as a cheap cop-out.

And heck YEAH, Kurt kicked their butts! It was odd that the only one he seemed to be seriously trying to kill was Scott, who he dropped from high in the air. Wolvie he 'ported away, Piotr he put down in the cave that they'd just rescued Ali from, and the others he just batted around a bit. Ugh the lines, though. And the cheesy Vincent Price accent. WE KNOW HE'S GERMAN, OKAY! Trust yer audience. :yell
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Postby Feuerstein » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:18 pm

Originally posted by tsukechick
Ali was perhaps the most "realistic" girl of the group. She called it like she saw it, and approached the whole school with a healthy dose of skepticism, which I respected as a character. I've historically disliked Warren's 616 incarnation (ooohhh so holier-than-thou), but Ultimate Warren was a cautious and sweet kid - a lot more like Kurt in fact. A wet blanket, though, sure, but there had to be someone to say "Uh, guys? Maybe this is a bad idea." Warren was that voice. Also I think it hit Kurt hard when Warren left - his one other buddy who couldn't walk down the street like the rest of the kids. Plus Piotr's "betrayal," and Ali's coma, Kurt had lost all his friends.


Yes, she was skeptical - I'll give you that she is, at least, realistic. It's her temper and general bad humor that bug me. I don't think she's a bad person or a mediocre character, it's more that in real life I'd never get along with her. I also find her kind of shallow at times. But she is one of the characters with the most personality, which is a plus.

Hmm, good points about Rogue. I suppose I wouldn't support Kurt/Rogue in Ultimate either - not at this point. (Jeez, none of the Ultimate girls are attractive, 'cept for Jean, and that's debatable. : ) But in regular Marvel canon, I almost would, except I love Romy too much, and I also think Kurt/Rogue could be plausible in alternate dimensions. I do wonder, though - on the topic of Ultimate Rogue - if the bouncing between emotions like a ping-pong ball isn't an implication of her own psychological scars, of which she is sure to have many. We don't actually know much about her history before Weapon X, am I wrong? So it could be deliberate on Kirkman's part, not that that makes it any more palatable.

And "eww" to Xavier liking Jean. That was... a shock. Yeeeeah.

You would imagine that Xavier would be a little smarter about his students, particularly the former- Weapon X ones. That's probably what I dislike most about Ultimate: they really don't have any form of stability. The writers seem to assume that the people who read Ultimate, already being familiar with Xavier's dream and his personality, don't need that spelled out for them in Ultimate. That's the only reason I can think of to explain why he was so looked up to when he really didn't do much. In 616, starting way back with the classic five, the students were built up to understand what Xavier wanted to fight for and chose to fight and not to fight on their own. That sort of happened in Ultimate with Emma opening her school and Alex deciding to attend it because of its less offensive stance on mutant rights, but if I'm remember right even that wasn't expanded for more than one issue, and climaxed with Scott just getting pissed at Alex for not siding with him. (Which is, admittedly, typical of Scott, the dear control-freak...) Am I making sense? I just think that, without any previous knowledge of X-men and going by only what's happened in Ultimate, it would be hard for the story to be believable, even as far as an X-men story could be.

Lastly, I always imagined Kurt could take out the others without difficulty if he just applied himself that way. :evil It'd be kind of interesting if he actually got the upperhand on someone (say, Logan) in 616. (And preferably a non-possessed Logan.) Kurt's abilities are another quirk about him that seems to change depending on the writer, or rather, depending on what would work in the story. Here he's strong enough to dangle a man by his shirt over the side of a building... and over here, he's knocked out by a falling block. Here he teleports multiple times while dodging many snipers... and over here, it only takes one shot to take him out after a single port. Yay for inconsistencies!

I read an interesting story on fanfiction.net - ever heard of rjb's Eternity series? They're really, REALLY good. I remember in one, a mind-controlled Kitty sticks her hand in Piotr's chest and grabs his heart, intending to rip it out (of course she stops just in time). She's also one of the characters with a power not considered offensive, but if she can really do that, she's actually more formidable than a lot of other characters, considering there's no way to harm her at close proximity when she's intangible!
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Postby tsukechick » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:36 pm

I do wonder, though - on the topic of Ultimate Rogue - if the bouncing between emotions like a ping-pong ball isn't an implication of her own psychological scars, of which she is sure to have many. We don't actually know much about her history before Weapon X, am I wrong? So it could be deliberate on Kirkman's part, not that that makes it any more palatable.


That's a good point, and yes Rogue and Kurt should both have crosses to bear, but I'd believe the emotional bouncing more if I had any faith left in the writer to make it if not sympathetic than at least believable. After the Magician's "WRY DON'T U LUV ME I MUST KILL U NOW" vomit bag of an ending, Kirkman would have to transform anime-girl style into Charles Dickens (glowing lights and clothes flying around, baby, let's see it!) before I was willing to give him that kind of credit.

That's probably what I dislike most about Ultimate: they really don't have any form of stability. The writers seem to assume that the people who read Ultimate, already being familiar with Xavier's dream and his personality, don't need that spelled out for them in Ultimate. That's the only reason I can think of to explain why he was so looked up to when he really didn't do much.


The thing about Ultimates was that it was touted as the Marvel Universe re-set for a new genration. That was the point. And even if everyone was magically implanted with knowledge of the Marvel Universe at birth, for purposes of pacing, plot and character development you still have to SAY what is going on. The characters have to acknowledge ideas and developments to each other in order for the narrative to hold, and they're just not doing that. Clasically, Xavier wasn't just a mentor: he did get out and about a fair deal, or at least did a lot of telepathic coordination and helping out, and the Ultimates storyline has the characters interacting with him as if that were still true. But as you said, there isn't any actual interaction in the story itself to support that, so it feels flat and unbelievable. The story is, as happened with the Emma example you gave, not following through.

Re: Kurt and Kitty's powers, because block quotes make long long posts.

Heh, I think the efficacy of a character's power depends largely on not only what is useful for a story, but also how much the writer likes that character. Any Kurt could easily, say, teleport Logan's head off, as his AoA self did to Deadpool, but it would just never occur to 616 Kurt to do that. He's a warrior, but he's not a violent person, and so many of these stories which revolve around who can give out and take a bigger beating just can't support that sort of character. Ultimate Nightcrawler is a violent person, whether he started out that way or was made so by Weapon X, just as Kurt in X2 was mind-controlled to be vicious and as such took out ALL of White House Security (omg so kick-ass!). Also, while a moving target is hard to hit and a teleporting one doubly so, all it takes is one good shot to knock him out, just like an normal human - once one of the officers managed to hit movie Kurt, it snapped him right out and he fled rather than fight.

Maybe that distinction is why 616 Kurt is so hard for writers to deal with. He CAN kick major tush, but unless someone makes him lose his temper (and we know he has one!), it's never his first instinct to do so. It's why even though it's sad that Kurt didn't come back for another movie, it was understandable that he wouldn't want to be on the X-Team because he doesn't want to fight people.

I think the difference between 616 Kurt and his Ultimate and Movieverse counterparts is that Prof X himself actively saved him from a mob that was on the verge of truly killing him. It was a life debt to start with, an incredibly noble thing to do for a stranger, and something that Kurt would never want another mutant to go through. It was something worth fighting for. It wasn't as immediate a danger for the other Kurts, but that desire to prevent others from being harmed did bring Ultimate Kurt back to join up later when Magneto started acting up, and hopefully we'll see movie Kurt again for similar reasons.

As for Kitty, her phasing power has been used offensively quite a few times, either as the best of all armor classes in close combat (you CAN'T hit me ha ha!), or to screw up the enemy's technology big time, or to scare them or phase them through a wall or somesuch. She also recently took out Emma Frost and the rest of the Hellfire Club in AXM - and phased through Pete's head, threatening just about the same thing as that heart incident in the fanfic you mention! When her phasing power isn't useful, writers consistently fall back on her l33t ninja skillz. Kitty does just fine for herself, from what I've seen. ;)

Heh, sorry that was all over the place. HI I LIKE TALKING ABOUT KURT! :D

[Edited on 3/6/2007 by tsukechick]
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Postby Feuerstein » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:59 am

... I should read AXM more often. :eek

I think you're absolutely right about 616 Kurt's attitude towards violence. It's part of his charm, and for my personally, I don't mind that he doesn't get to kick butt as often as the others. I wouldn't want him to become a "hard case" just to gain a little more respect among the warriors. It's a difficult situation, but there are times when one can't avoid killing to survive, and we already know Kurt will kill to save others if he has no choice (Stefan, anyone?). He and Logan have debated the ethics of killing - killing of any kind - many times over, but no conclusions have really been drawn. However, because of Kurt's reluctance to kill in any circumstance but the inevitable, he hasn't honed the techniques the way his AoA self or even Ultimate self have. Even in a situation where he has to kill, I doubt he'd think to use the teleport-his-head off technique, because of how gruesome it is, though honestly probably not painful for the victim (think about beheading by guillotine - if done correctly, death is supposed to be instantaneous). Wow, it really is complicated. I hope the writers deal with this!

You know what else I'd like to see? In Ultimate or 616 - Mystique and Kurt. The last time he had a scene with Mystique was when she wanted to join the X-men and he asked her to disappear for a while so he could get used to the idea. Nothing has ever really been resolved between them, especially her feelings for him. Kurt's aren't hard to guess: he's mixed up, but he can't bring himself to hate her, even though he's hurt by her, and he still wants to believe she loves him in spite of it all. But what are Mystique's feelings? She seems to care only for Rogue, but Rogue and Kurt spend barely any time together - as far as pseudosiblings go, they're as estranged as you get. At this point, it's like biological ties in this family mean nothing (which, all things considered, could be for the best), but the fans would like something conclusive to occur between Mystique and Kurt, for better or for worse.

I'm also interested to find out if Mystique will play any role in Kurt's life in Ultimate. That could be very interesting. :evil

I like talking about Kurti too! I just realized I've written more about him on this site than I have in most of my English essays, and those are actually going to benefit me... XD
Steyn: Oh sweety, no, the elvis boys are across the street at the wolverine forum
Tessa: LMAO
Steyn: here we do Paul Young
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