Obsession is the key word

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Obsession is the key word

Postby Feuerstein » Thu May 03, 2007 12:59 pm

Let's face it - our beloved Crawler is a pointy-eared, blue-furred, spade-tailed, glowing-eyed, demon-faced freak. Yet we love him and think he's cute and sexy and all that. A few years ago, I never would have imagined falling for a guy covered in fur, but such is the state of womanhood today.

But what's most amusing than that are thoughts of my friends on my obsession. I don't like boys much, so my friends are nearly all female, and frankly none of them are the comic book-reading type. They think it's weird enough I read comic books, let alone gush over a guy with a tail.

Here are a few nearly verbatim reactions of my friends upon finding out about Kurt for the first time. Most of them had ever seen him before:

[After drawing a sketch of Crawler]
Freund #1 Rachel: Hey... that guy... he's got no eyes! ... He's kind of cute!

[After drawing a chibi sketch of Crawler for a club poster]
Freund #2 Annie (who has seen him before): Hey! It's the blue dude from that movie!
(In that club, he is now know as "blue dude" and nothing else.)

[After drawing yet another sketch of Crawler]
Freund #3 Rini: Oh-my-gosh! It's an elf! Wow! ... Hey, no, you gave him a tail, pooh!

[Upon seeing my current desktop, which has a picture of Kitty and Kurt]
Freund #4 Mika (homestay student from Japan): Your boyfriend is Spiderman!
Feuerstein: No, actually, it's this guy on my desktop!
Freund #4 Mika: ... No! No! No!

[Upon seeing X-Evolution Kurt on TV]
Dad: Who's the ugly blue guy.
Feuerstein: He's not ugly! He's adorable!
Dad: Ugly.
Feuerstein: Adorable!
Dad: Ugly. Ugly, ugly.

So. Have you had similar experiences, or am I just weird?
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Obsession is the key word

Postby neling4 » Thu May 03, 2007 1:22 pm

My husband can't understand my obsession with Nightcrawler, and he and my son keep taking him off my computer desktop background. I accused my husband of being jealous of Nightcrawler and he replied, "I don't want a tail sticking out of my butt!"

We laughed about that. My husband is really quite tolerant of my obsession.
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Postby love_of_bob » Thu May 03, 2007 2:57 pm

The people around me are kind of amused by my obsession, but haven't said much about whether they think he's cute or ugly.

The most common complaint I see from posters online, though, is that Kurt looks too pretty these days. That he should look more monstrous. I'd rant about it, but I'm not sure if it's on-topic or not.
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Postby Feuerstein » Thu May 03, 2007 8:12 pm

Too cute? Aww. They're just jealous. But sometimes the artists draw him just silly looking, not even scary, and that annoys me. I prefer Demon!Kurt to Looney Tunes!Kurt.

(Besides, every other guy gets to be Super Good Looking or Super Strong and Scary. Kurt is not the latter, so why can't he be cute underneath that fur?)

The most common complaint I see has to do with him being so passive all the time... and basically just being a filler character when he shows up. ~sigh~ Which I can't really argue with, but all the same. (More power to ya, Kurti-Cutie.)

[Edited on 5-3-07 by Feuerstein]
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Postby love_of_bob » Fri May 04, 2007 3:39 am

I think they color him too brightly these days. He's supposed to be dark dark DARK. Unsettlingly so, but there's nothing scary about a guy who's just...blue. Kurt's never been straight out ugly, from what I remember. He's always had the high cheekbones, sturdy nose and even features, they just used to emphasize his fangs more and make him darker.

I actually think him being handsome under the fur makes him more unsettling than if he was plain ugly.

Yeah, his passiveness lately is horrible. Or, if at least a reason had been given, that, for example, he's feeling a bit crestfallen after the whole priest business and that it's taking a toll on his self-esteem, I wouldn't mind it so much. Kurt's human, after all. But nothing is explained, he's just passive because the writers don't care about him and don't see any other sides than his niceness. Such a waste. Here's one of the most versatile characters in Marvel comics and they don't use it.
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Postby Feuerstein » Fri May 04, 2007 9:15 pm

All true. I remember when he appeared in Exiles he was practically turquoise. Tee hee!

They play up the demon thing in Ultimate pretty well. Ultimate is like the brothel for plots the writers wouldn't dare put in the mainstream titles. That's part of why, in spite of everything, I continue to read it. So long as I think, "It's alternate universe, he's not MY Kurt!" I'm perfectly fine.

It's Kurt's fur that makes him special, among other things. There are a large amount of characters with physical mutations nowadays, but among the senior X-men there aren't many, so he stands out because he's one of them. If he weren't blue and fuzzy, I wonder if I would have noticed him. He'd certainly be very different, since struggling with prejudice has shaped his personality quite a bit. I like my man blue and tailed. :love
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Postby Bamfing_Bob » Fri May 04, 2007 10:34 pm

Indigo. INDIGO!! Dark blue is his color. I think he should be OK looking but, but not gorgeous or ugly. Just... average. Except for the whole mutant demon thing....

My friends think I over-do my obsession a bit, what with the T-Shirts and belt buckles... but most accept that as one of my quirks. Although, some say it will keep me from getting a girl and regular society.
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Postby Feuerstein » Sat May 05, 2007 4:33 am

I'm a girl. Not too regular, but hey. Still a girl. ~_^

Average works for me. If anything, it adds to his charm. His induced-image-of-choice is a fairly plain looking guy - brown hair, brown eyes (and I just got that Wolverine #140, in which he induces that image with some 5 o'clock shadow). Robertson draws him dark-haired and blue-eyed, which is what I prefer, but I also find myself inadvertantly attracted to the gentle-faced, nonassuming average Joe look he favors. For me, what I notice first in a guy is definitely his smile, so to quote [strike]Claremont[/strike] Psylocke, "his smile, which could light up even the hardest heart..." He can be as ugly as anything, but as long as I know he has a friendly smile in spite of fangs, I will drool.

[Edited on 5-4-07 by Feuerstein]
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Postby tears~fall~like~glass » Sat May 05, 2007 3:19 pm

my friends think I'm insane 'cause I'll go on random rants about something...like I went to a con and got a Cable and Mr. Sinister button, so I had to explain who they both were. Needless to say by the time I was done, the looks on their faces was...well they looked kinda somethin' like this :surprise

I ended up having to explain it 3 times, but they still didn't get it, so I gave up :X
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Obsession is the key word

Postby rain360 » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:03 am

I've expressed before that he is my favorite comic book character and that he is the best,
But I'm keeping my Nightie obsession to myself.
:)
If I told people (espessialy my dad)
I'd never hear the end of it.
=D
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Postby Feuerstein » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:38 am

Ahh, see, nothing is kept secret long in my house. It's very small and we're always tripping over each other. This laptop is supposed to be mine alone, yet everyone in my family has used it without my permission at least once. I have to be very careful with my secret stash of naughty stuff. :coy

It was inevitable they'd find out about my Kurt obsession eventually. I am still teased by my dad over my Digimon obsession in elementary school ("Jamaicans like Digimon mon!") and my junior high obsession with Yugioh ("You want to have that 2D character's babies!"). o.O Actually, Dad has mostly laid off Kurt. He's just that great.
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Postby rain360 » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:50 am

Originally posted by Feuerstein
Ahh, see, nothing is kept secret long in my house. It's very small and we're always tripping over each other. This laptop is supposed to be mine alone, yet everyone in my family has used it without my permission at least once. I have to be very careful with my secret stash of naughty stuff. :coy

It was inevitable they'd find out about my Kurt obsession eventually. I am still teased by my dad over my Digimon obsession in elementary school ("Jamaicans like Digimon mon!") and my junior high obsession with Yugioh ("You want to have that 2D character's babies!"). o.O Actually, Dad has mostly laid off Kurt. He's just that great.



Because we all know that Kurt is too cool to be made fun of.
=D
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:00 am

Hahahaha! This thread again!

Originally posted by Feuerstein

Freund #4 Mika: ... No! No! No!


lmao!! No! No! Hahahaha oh man.

[Upon seeing X-Evolution Kurt on TV]
Dad: Who's the ugly blue guy.
Feuerstein: He's not ugly! He's adorable!
Dad: Ugly.
Feuerstein: Adorable!
Dad: Ugly. Ugly, ugly.


This was my mom's exact reaction to Evo Kurt.

Also

"You want to have that 2D character's babies!"


Hahahaha! Your dad is awesome.

I don't tend to spread around the news that I would totally have sex with a fictional character when I am around "normal people" so I don't have that many experiences like that. >.<

Hahahaha
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Postby Feuerstein » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:49 am

Absolutely. 2D sex would be majorlee hott. Normal people don't know what they're missing.

Once again, you can't keep anything a secret for long in my house.

I have a new one. It might not be very funny, because we weren't speaking in English and the joke doesn't really make sense otherwise, but all you really have to know is that the words for "cute" and "scary" sound very, very similar in Japanese.

Brother: [comes up to me with one of my TPBs of UXM] I finished reading it.
Mika: !! [points to Nightcrawler] Scary!
Me: Yeah, he is cute!
Mika: No, scary!
Me: He's not scary! He's CUTE!
Mika: SOOOOO SCARY!
Me: He's not scary he's nice and decent and generous and he kicks evil-doers butts and even though he looks weird and has had a hard life he still always looks for the best and -
Brother: I like Kurt. ;)
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Postby Cadbury » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:42 pm

Well, there is a certain aura of power behind the demonic, and with an athlete's build, and the ability to conceal himself in the shadows with only those glowing, yellow eyes, there is that sense of, well, power. As a man, we do take a certain pride in physical prowess, and the ability to take a woman. Nightcrawler has that certain savoir faire with the ladies, and the nobility of heart to defend them, yet the undeniable (and forbidden?) aspect of dark sensuality. I think Alan Davis mastered Kurt's body, that aspect of his appearance quite well.

[Edited on 19/6/07 by Cadbury]
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Postby Feuerstein » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:26 am

That's very true. Where's your icon from? It looks awesome.
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Postby love_of_bob » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:43 am

Originally posted by Cadbury
Well, there is a certain aura of power behind the demonic, and with an athlete's build, and the ability to conceal himself in the shadows with only those glowing, yellow eyes, there is that sense of, well, power. As a man, we do take a certain pride in physical prowess, and the ability to take a woman. Nightcrawler has that certain savoir faire with the ladies, and the nobility of heart to defend them, yet the undeniable (and forbidden?) aspect of dark sensuality. I think Alan Davis mastered Kurt's body, that aspect of his appearance quite well.


Nicely said. I've always pictured Kurt as having this really graceful way of moving, confirmed by Storm when she air-danced with him. I find Kurt sexy (although perhaps I should stress that that doesn't mean I want to have sex with him) because he's so physical. He's so very comfortable in his own body, he knows it and he knows how to use it. He doesn't just have intellectual and emotional intelligence, he has physical intelligence as well.
Had he, however, been a jerk, that would have overridden his sex appeal entirely in my eyes. Hence why I will never find Gambit sexy, no matter how physical and "smooth" he is. There needs to be substance behind the exterior and Kurt has it.
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Postby Angelique » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:23 am

Gambit is certainly charming, even with just the looks and the accent. (The first time I heard a guy from Louisiana call me "chere," I about melted.) Charm is the icing on the cake. By the same token, it's only icing.

Real gallantry is the icing, filling, and the whole cake, which is why I prefer Nightcrawler.
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Postby Feuerstein » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:20 pm

Bobby. Darling. Of course we all want to have sex with him. <.< >.> OK, I'm just teasing. Down, boy.

I agree with y'all! My feelings about Gambit change daily. In general I don't like him, but at the same time I do, and it's kind of my dark dirty secret that I like it whenever he shows up. I have to disagree that he has no "substance" as you put it, because he has been in love with a girl he can never (or very very rarely) touch for a good long time. He's done a lot of crap and, to be honest, never treated Rogue really well, but Romy is definitely my OTP.

But Kurt's the one with the heart of gold. No question. Even if I do like Gambit, I never go for the bad boy type. Kurt could have so easily become a vengeful monster after everything that was done to him, but he understands the futility of revenge and the whole "you reap what you sow" idea. So he sows kindness, and that's what he gets in return. That's why, though he may not be one of the most popular characters around, he is one of least unpopular. ^^

And think about it, his mom's a terrorist and his demonic dad was global domination, but all Kurt needs to be happy is an Errol Flynn movie marathon. Somehow Evil + Eviler = Kurt. o.O This just shows how little genetics has to do with who we are. :LOL

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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:13 am

Originally posted by Cadbury
As a man, we do take a certain pride in physical prowess, and the ability to take a woman.


Hehehehehehe! Sorry. Hehehehehehehe! Oh, men are great.

The only reason Gambit stayed with Rogue so long is because he couldn't have her. It's interesting in a thought experiment sort of way (what if there was a bad boy who loved them and left them but this one time he couldn't get the love over with would it mean he couldn't leave?? would he just hang around forever??), but it didn't take long for it to get tedious.

I like him when he's not with Rogue. He's fun when he's not with Rogue.

Kurt is so poorly defined right now I don't even know if I'd sex him or not. Who is he, anyway? He doesn't have much of a personality at the moment. He hasn't done anything for years.
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Postby Feuerstein » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:40 am

OK, I'll take that. And I definitely agree with whole "I love her but can't touch her life sucks" story would get old pretty fast. But I just haven't been a fan of comics long enough to be sick of it yet. ^^" I don't know much about Gambit-minus-Rogue either, but I've heard that there's a lot of dissatisfaction because the stories ARE alway Rogue-with-Gambit, and Gambit never gets to just be Gambit anymore. That's what happens when writers rehash the same plots too many times. We'll see what's up with him in Endangered Species.

Kurt's still nice. He's still cute. I'd still enjoy it. (>:-D) Brubaker isn't interested in giving him a personality. Between Austen and Claremont, all the pro-Nighty hype garnered by the movie (for better or for worse) went out the window. He could still make an awesome comeback, and I think he will in due time, but it's like every other character who doesn't have a major plotline going on is still doing interesting, or at least cool, stuff. With Kurt, you really have to dig for nuggest and then hoard them. For me, talking M-day and on, I really nitpicked to find stuff to obsess over. In my fangirl-ness, he hasn't lost any magic, but seriously... HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR. And his Ultimate self has gone off the deep end. Blah.

Uncanny in general hasn't treated its cast well the past few years. Every character who was/is in Uncanny is either unused, abused, or if they do have something interesting going on, it's because they left the title and went elsewhere. I really wish Kurt were in Astonishing. I would KILL for him to be in Astonishing. >.<

... On the bright side, I'm now motivated to right that fanfic that's been churning in the back of my brain for months.
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Postby The Drastic Spastic » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:03 am

Where did you hear Bru wasn't going to give him a personality? He hasn't done it yet, but it doesn't mean he won't. He's tying up loose ends. I can wait. Loose ends need tying and all. If he uses Generic Loyal Character #4 (aka Bleh!Nightcrawler) to do that, okay. The current Uncanny arc he appears to be playing the role of loyal hound, following Prof X around so he's not just talking to himself.

His Ultimate version may be crazy, but at least he has a personality! He's doing stuff! He's speaking his mind! He is involved in the plot! He doesn't fit (other) people's idea of what he should be like, but he doesn't exist purely as an exposition machine like he did in the space story. (And probably will in the next one.)

He's not in Astonishing because Whedon doesn't know what to do with him either. He's become very dull to write, I think. Morrison skipped on him too.
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Postby love_of_bob » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:12 am

Originally posted by Feuerstein
Bobby. Darling. Of course we all want to have sex with him. .> OK, I'm just teasing. Down, boy.


There needs to be a published story where Kurt is being stalked by horny female fans and getting nada sympathy from the other males in the mansion.
... On the bright side, I'm now motivated to right that fanfic that's been churning in the back of my brain for months.


Yes, please!

Originally posted by The Drastic SpasticHis Ultimate version may be crazy, but at least he has a personality! He's doing stuff! He's speaking his mind! He is involved in the plot! He doesn't fit (other) people's idea of what he should be like, but he doesn't exist purely as an exposition machine like he did in the space story. (And probably will in the next one.)


I think Ultimate Nightcrawler did have a personality before. He was just grossly underused. He managed to be very naive, very wise, caring and very dangerous at the same time. He was lively, charming and dorky. Plenty could have been done with him without turning him into what he's become. I was intrigued at first by him turning out to be mentally unstable. I hoped that would lead to something interesting, raise questions rarely asked in comics. The homophobia, too. That could have been awesome, could have fleshed out his character immensely.

Instead he was just promptly ostracized and the X-men don't seem to care one bit. Which seems like a huge mistake on their part, at the very least tactically, considering that he's trained to be a weapon and mentally unstable and all and now their enemy, out there somewhere. Kirkman's Ultimate X-men are all self-centered morons and Ultimate Nightcrawler is even more lame than before, imo. He's just less likable.

He's not in Astonishing because Whedon doesn't know what to do with him either. He's become very dull to write, I think. Morrison skipped on him too.


*sigh* Yeah, Kurt doesn't have a conflict at this point and even his purpose is really vague. Team's conscience? Bah. No one ever listens to his advice. Team's heart? He seems to preach more than interact with people.
I have also grown to hate his stilted dialogue. Someday some writer needs to do something about that. I'm sick of hearing "my friend" every other sentence. I want him to sound like a normal human being. I want him to get annoyed now and then. There was a time when he used to be sarcastic.
The Kurt I like is currently in limbo and it doesn't look like he'll be back any time soon.

[Edited on 21/6/07 by love_of_bob]
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Postby NachtcGleiskette » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:12 pm

Gambit pwns.
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€
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Postby Feuerstein » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:52 pm

I don't trust Brubaker to give him personality at all. Brubaker writes plot-centered stories, which in general is a good thing for comic books, but I really feel he does better work when he can focus on one or two characters, because then you don't have a bunch of tagalongs interrupting the flow of the plot. He did great stuff on Cap that way. But in Uncanny, you've got a bunch of characters who sometimes seem like they're just there for the fans and the writers don't really care about them. It's got to be frustrating for Brubaker as well, because he's got this story he wants to write but all these extra characters are making it difficult. The other thing is that he's really limited to 22 pages a month, which isn't all that much if you want to tell a huge story, and that's exactly what he wanted to do. He wanted to write Star Wars in 12 issues. Now he's wrapped up in the Endangered Species thing and Chris Yost is getting the remainder of the Shi'ar story. I wonder how he feels about that. Probably he just wrote it for money anyhow, yeah?

I've been rereading Ultimate, and one thing I noticed was that Kirkman gets a lot of slack for his treatment of the characters, but it seems to be he was picking up right where Vaughan left off. I have a million and one problems with Ultimate, but let's be honest - I still read it, so they must be doing something right. But talking Nightcrawler specifically, a lot of the stuff Vaughan's done with him was begun by Vaughan. He's been very inconsistent personality-wise, but that could still be rectified. When he was with Weapon X, there were so many things they could have done with him. When he finally joined the X-men, he became, basically, 616 Nightcrawler, and I would guess that's what led to him going nuts, because no other character is similar to his or her 616 self (except Colossus, but he's gay, so I guess they figure that's enough). But the fact that he has been acting nuts, hurt his friends, and alienated himself from the X-men makes it seem like they're just trying to get rid at him. Possibly for the reasons you mentioned. What's his place on the team?

It all goes back to what we've discussed a million times before: The writers don't know how to write him because he doesn't, as you said, have definition. He's just nicety-nice and stuff. I would even say Austen's and just pre-Austen's Nightcrawler was more interesting than recent Claremont and post-Claremont Nightcrawler. He needs a story that will make him make sense again. Whether it's going to annoy the fans or not.

But beyond all that, while it may be true, I still don't like Ultimate Crawler, or Ultimate anybody for that matter. Ultimate Spider-man is probably the only Ultimate series I like. And regarding Kurt's homophobia: I agree with Bob that it could be interesting, because Piotr was his closest friend and Kurt's totally pushed him away since he found out. We know next to nothing about Kurt's past. What reason does he have to hate homosexuals? Is it religious? Because I don't think he was identified as being religious in Ultimate, though I can think of two instances that could imply that. But I'm religious, albeit pro-homosexual, but I used to go to a school where you were supposed to be anti. But many of us knew gay people, were friends with them, and even the people who were definitely anti didn't just dump their friends or be mean to them. I became pro because I don't see how loving someone can be a sin, but that's me. And I know there are plenty of people, religious and nonreligious, who do go out of their way to hurt homosexuals the way Kurt's hurt Piotr. I just don't see how it fits Kurt, because he'd only been nice to people up to that point. As Piotr himself said, if someone as unique as Kurt can fit in at the Institute, then surely he should too. Why can't Kurt accept that? There has to be a reason: people don't become so extremely hostile without one. Discrimination is something that must be learned. In sum, I'm not upset that he's a homophobe, though I hate labels and this is definitely the worst one we have right now, right up there with racist, because it could have been a great moment for character development for both of them. But that's not what happened and it doens't look like it's going to happen since Piotr is now at Emma's school and Crawler's probably going to disappear (but the issue's not out so that's just my speculation, and I could be completely wrong), so when would there be any kind of resolution - for good or bad? The plot's going in a different direction and those two aren't important. It may be years before they get back to it, if they do, and how many people will have forgotten it ever happened, or just not care anymore?

I really should shut up now so y'all can yell at me. But I'll close with this: Back to 616 Nighty, I don't think he doesn't have a personality. He had a distinct one in Excalibur, if you ask me. He was smart, had a temper, had romances and made enemies, was judgmental, put his foot in his mouth, had a rocky relationship with Amanda, played big brother to Kitty. People just need to be reminded of that now, but it's been so many years with him being "the guy who was once a priest". That's why I really liked the mini-series. I felt like, whatever problems we can come up with for it, at least he wasn't totally boring, or as Bob once so aptly put it, furniture. Whether you liked it or not, wouldn't you agree it was a better version of him than the one we get on a regular basis?

Seriously... shutting up now. ^^
Steyn: Oh sweety, no, the elvis boys are across the street at the wolverine forum
Tessa: LMAO
Steyn: here we do Paul Young
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