who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Bamfette » Fri Jul 25, 2003 7:35 am

Azazel (Uh - za (long a) zul)

Azazel is Kurt's biological father. he has the same physical characteristics as Kurt, but is red. He also has the power of teleportation, just like Kurt.

His first appearacne in the comics was Uncanny X-Men #428, where he was introduced to Mystique by her husband, Christian Wagner. Herr Azazel was stated to be ruler of an island nation off the coast of Bermuda, La Isla des Demonas. The Island of Demons, where Havok's teacher had discovered traces of an ancient mutant civilization in Uncanny #422. for all appearances, he seemed to be a suave and charming nobleman, and he managed to seduce Mystique with his charm. It was later revealed that he had the apeparance of a demon, with red skin, glowing yellow eyes and pronged tail.

in Uncanny X-Men 429, he was shown at the head of a demonic army, exiting a gate summoned by Kurt and his half brothers at the end of the issue.

According to old religious texts, Azazel is one of the chiefs of the 200 fallen angels. The name 'Azazel' may be derived from 'azaz' and 'el' meaning 'strong one of God.' It is thought that Azazel may have been derived from the Canaanite god, 'Asiz, who caused the sun to burn strongly. It has also been theorized that he has been influenced by the Egyptian god, Seth. Azazel in Christian and Jewish theology is the demon the 'scapegoat' of the Israelites. The Lord ordered his high priest, Aaron, to 'place lots upon the two goats, one marked for the Lord and the other marked for Azazel' on the Jewish Day of Atonement. The goat designated by lot for the Lord is to be used as a sin offering, while the goat designated for Azazel "shall be left standing alive before the Lord, to make expiation with it and to send it off to the wilderness for Azazel." (Lev 16:10) Most importantly, Azazel was described as the leader of the 'Watchers' (biblical Watchers, not Marvel) who educated humankind in arts that led them to sin. He introduced men to weapons, causing violence in mankind, and women to cosmetics, which encouraged deception, and enabled them to seduce angels. The angels who were on earth with Azazel, coupled with the mortal women, producing the Giants, who were described to have animal heads and other such weirdness as offspring... when God learned of this, he had the archangel Raphael bind him hand and foot and cast him into a pit where he was to remain until the day of judgement. The story goes: "the whole earth has been corrupted by [Asa'el's] teachings of his (own) actions; and write upon him all sin." . It was because of Asa'el's teachings that God sent the Flood to destroy the evil in the world including even the souls of the giants, so that all evil will be wiped away from the face of the earth.
"And Azazel taught the people (the art of) making swords and knives, and shields, and breastplates; and he showed to their chosen ones bracelets, decorations, (shadowing of the eye) with antimony, ornamentation, the beautifying of the eyelids, all kinds of precious stones, and all coloring tinctures and alchemy." - 1 (Enoch 8:1)

Azazel is also referred to as Iblis, or Eblis, a djiin or demon of Islamic lore whose name means 'Despair'. According to the legend, when God commanded the angels to worship Adam, Azazel refused, contending (in the Koran) "Why should a son of fire fall down before a son of clay?" Whereupon God cast Azazel out of Heaven and changed his name to Eblis. Eblis is the equivalent of the Christian Satan.

Whether any of these stories relate to the character currently appearing is unrevealed.
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Moongazer » Fri Jul 25, 2003 8:13 pm

Wow, there's so much to wonder and speculate about Azazel. I'm glad you posted all of that information. I recognized the name, but was unsure about which religions it appeared in.
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Caer » Sat Jul 26, 2003 12:48 pm

Thanks for the info Bamfette. I really enjoy the history of names.
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Machina » Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:29 pm

What a cool idea to explore I am so loving what I am hearing about Draco story arc. If Chuck does see this I have to say "Brilliant."
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby NightPoofer » Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:16 pm

That is sooooo Cool! Kurt has a cool family, mostly evil, but COOL! This history stuff is awesome.
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby soulest » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:16 am

It would sooo suck finding out you were a spawn of satan, especially if you worked most of your life living against him. Kurt is such a kind loving shivilress sort of guy, it'd be a shame.(not to mention kinda saucy:mmm) I read the issue myself, and if Azazel is a demon I wonder how kurt would react if he ever found out.
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some sugestions to Azzy...

Postby jogurt » Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:45 am

Azazel mean: strong, irresistible, impudent

After the sons of God took human wives there were giants in the Earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became the mighty men which were of old, men of renown. The Nefilim were upon the Earth, in those days and thereafter too, when the sons of the gods cohabitated with the daughters of the Adam, and they bore children unto them. They were the mighty ones of Eternity - the people of the shem.' Nefilim stems from the Semitic root NFL, 'to be cast down.'
Genesis Capt 6.4

May youre familiar with this part of the Bible may not. Alot of peeps in history and today times where wondering about the Genesis textes where themn Elohim and/or Nefilim the mentioned.
Like the greek the *anicient anicient* hebrew history has her roots in a plural god system. A bit like the greek:
Yahweh himself was manifest as the "wandering star" Jupiter, the planet of kingship. Yahweh's more prominent astral
While Venus bore the name of Helel (according Lester Ness)Helel suffered the special fate of being banished from heaven for trying to usurp the throne of the king of the Assembly
It is Helal who is referred to by the first Isaiah as a metaphor for king Nebachudnezzar whom Isaiah said would fall for seeking to rise above his station and become king of all the earth:

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn [i.e., Helal, son of the god Shahar]! How you [Nebachudnezzar] are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, `I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of El; I will sit on the Mount of Assembly on the heights of Zaphon [the sacred mountain of El where the Assembly of the Gods met in council]. But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit" (Isaiah 14:12-15).
In his fallen state, Helal was known as Azazel, the earth-bound demon to whom the Israelites gave as a yearly sacrifice on the Day of Atonement a "scapegoat" that was sent into the wilderness for Azazel after another goat had been sacrificed before the mercy seat of Yahweh.
( from: http://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/contents-bible.htm An Anthropologist Looks at the Judeo-Christian Scriptures .)

If you dig a bit deeper you will may struggle over A)that Azzi has a lot in common with Prometeus.
B) with the Sumerian God Enki.THis Enki guy acted as a Rebel against the creator gods.
Our Nighties Dad has a lot of names:
Tammuz Mawet,
Shemesh
Yereh Yamm
Helel
Baal- ("Bright
Zebub, One"),
Nasargiel Azazel
(Uriel) (after fall)
The most Intresting on it is that Azzi the one was who gave the Human the sword...no wonder that Kurti likes to fight with
Azazel is also a mediteran version of the trixser Loki and we know Logi wasnt ever a child of sadness;)[i]Enki had a fun loving and mischievous nature. His sacred number is 40[i].

BTW:
The Sumerian never seen the Annunaki( the Elohim/Nefilim never as God in the way we would understand the word *GOD* They say: din.gir. 'Din' meant 'righteous, pure, bright.'gir' was a term used to describe a sharp-edged object So you can say:'righteous ones of the bright pointed objects.
They came(according the -a bit daubtful Historian- Zecharia Sitchen from Nibiru)and hwere that what called in Palaeo Seti circles called Creators...)
If you dig into this Subjekt deeper you will proberly find out a lot of nonsens.But If you take it as *Story* or Idea its may very intresting to believe. So you can say: The change our Azzy is a Alien is high;)
useful Link:crystllinks
The Pyramid over Egypt links with the Pyramid
of Time and Illusion. It is run by I, Thoth or
Hermes, the Trickster and Master of the Game.
(AKA. Azazel;) )
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Sandy » Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:34 pm

Duh, Jogurt...I was about the post a lot of what you've just said on Azzi..I thought I was the only weird German with more than a little weird knowledge :D

I will put my Bible, commentary and the stray bits and pieces about Ancient and Biblical history away then.....wait - I might actually check my Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible...I'll be back! (Imagine that with a fake Schwarzenegger accent)
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby kurtlover » Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:17 pm

Excellent! now i'm more interested :)
good researching Nique!
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby jogurt » Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:03 pm

Lol at Sandy ! We may have lot in commun lol age /country/etc but your english is a way much better !
May you got some aspects i didnt mentioned here?
The Pyramid over Egypt links with the Pyramid
of Time and Illusion. It is run by I, Thoth or
Hermes, the Trickster and Master of the Game.
(AKA. Azazel;) )
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A Tad Confused

Postby BlackBamfer » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:26 am

Hello, I last posted something before this site crashed, and now I'm confused as to the sudden appearance of Azazel. I didn't see him here last time, so is he really recent? I mean;

1) What was his first appearance?
2) Does Kurt know? :shocked
3) Does Mystique know or did Azzy appear human to her?
4) Why was he attracted to her? Because she is kinda like a demon lady?
5) Which comic writer decided this?
6) What is the list of his comic appearances so I can track one down?
7) Does Azazel know Kurt is his kid? :surprise
8) What colour is his Bamf smoke and does he bamf or make another sound? :bamf
9) If Kurt is destined to be Belasco, :yell (which personally I don't like VERY much) is Azzy proud of him then?
10) Just to have 10 questions, is there enough info to answer them or is he very, very recent? :P

I hope someone can clear things up for me, that would be a big help.

Thanks!!

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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Sandy » Mon Aug 04, 2003 10:34 am

Well, I guess reading Uncanny #428 answers all that. As far as I know, that's where Azzie was first introduced....so it'S PRETTY recent. Maybe you want to read the thread on that issue - but it obviously contains lots of spoilers....


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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby MabusRex » Mon Aug 04, 2003 3:28 pm

1) What was his first appearance?

Uncanny X-Men #428 (shipped 2 weeks ago)

2) Does Kurt know? :shocked

Not yet :D

3) Does Mystique know or did Azzy appear human to her?

She's seen him in both human and "demonic" forms

4) Why was he attracted to her? Because she is kinda like a demon lady?

Mmmmmmmaybe. Maybe not. It'll be cleared up later in "The Draco"

5) Which comic writer decided this?

Chuck "Fanboys hate him" Austen

6) What is the list of his comic appearances so I can track one down?

Just UNCANNY X-MEN #428, though he'll also be appearing in #429-434

7) Does Azazel know Kurt is his kid? :surprise

Yes

8) What colour is his Bamf smoke and does he bamf or make another sound? :bamf

Pink/Purple and it does indeed make a bamf sound

9) If Kurt is destined to be Belasco, :yell (which personally I don't like VERY much) is Azzy proud of him then?

He's not destined to be Belasco. The EARTH X books are in a universe unconnected with the true 616 one. But I'd think Azzy'd be proud of him, yeah :D

10) Just to have 10 questions, is there enough info to answer them or is he very, very recent? :P

Both. He's VERY recent and people who don't know the writer personally wouldn't know most of the answers. Luckily, both Jill (Bamfette) and I do, so here your answers be ;)
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby NightPoofer » Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:20 am

Now I get a few things. I'm not a very observant reader (stupid ADD and ADHD!) which is why some of the questions here gave me a quick answer! I like dat! Keep it up ever E body
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Azzy Daddy

Postby BlackBamfer » Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:54 am

Hi,

Special thank-you to MabusRex for going through my question and answering each of my questions. That was great, and thanks for adding extra info i.e.; Azzy is in #429 - 434.

I have to say, I'm not sure how I feel about Azzy at this early stage. I'm torn between liking the idea of Kurt's dad being a demon because I like demons (obviously, everyone on this site does.) and because it adds a little more mystery to Kurt, and disliking it because it means all of Kurt's family (excluding Rogue, who isn't blood-kin) are nasty, and because Kurt has always prided himself on his uniqueness and humanity and this revelation destroys both. Not to mention the whole "Satan is my father" thing.

I guess that's what I dislike about the Azzy idea, that he is too much like Kurt. What do others think? From descriptions I've read about him it seems that between Azzy and Mystique, Kurt has no physical traits or abilities of his own. His dad has the physical looks and the teleportation ability, while his mum has the yellow eyes and blue skin. So Kurt now seems like a carbon-copy of his dad with a blue rinse. I'll probably get used to the idea, but at this point, making Kurt part Hellspawn seems strange. I wish the TP ability was his alone at least.

Still, maybe Azzy will be another example of a human believing himself a demon and taking one's shape and name. Notable examples include Belasco and Metaphisto. Supporting this is that issue where all mutants become human thanks to High Evolutionary. I don't remember the number. If Kurt, or his dad, is really a demon, you'd think losing his mutant gene would have no effect. Do you know how many bibliographies of the Elf have to be changed if he is? A lot say that Kurt's powers and looks come from him being a second generation mutant, not a first generation Hellspawn.

If Azazel is Kurt's father, then technically his counterparts are all the other alternate Kurt counterpart's fathers as well... Scary thought.

A bright point about this seem to be that Kurt gets one nice family member. Abyss is apparently Kurt's little brother. Hey MabusRex, I liked your site on him. I knew very little about him until I went on there. I liked what I found about him too. I can see THIS working at least, maybe even helping with the Azzy Daddy concept too. Abyss (non AOA) seems a lot like Kurt. A nice guy who tries hard not to kill anyone, and also having a body resembling a demon.... Thing. He can pull people into other dimensions too. Wouldn't that be funny, evil Azzy goes and has kids with (I'm thinking Mystique, don't know others) evil women, and they all turn out like angels. Haha!! In your face demon!

We call Azzy a demon, we called Kurt an Elf (though only so as not to hurt his feelings), what do we call Abyss? Sprite? Something else? Or simply Hellspawn?

Hey, here are a couple more questions, about Mystique this time.

Is she still in Abyss?
CAN he spit her out?
Does Kurt know Mystique is gone/in there?
I thought Mystique's husband was ERIC Wagner?

Ooooookay, this was a long post. Fun to speculate though. :D

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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Bamfette » Tue Aug 05, 2003 10:50 pm

all i have to say BlackBamfer, is you are falling into the same trap as a lot of people lately, and are judging the story and character really before you know the first thing about it. why not jsut sit back, read it, THEN form an opinion? i think you will like it a lot more than you think you will.
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby BlackBamfer » Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:06 am

I think I'm really going to like it. Anything involving the demons and the Elf's history is worth looking into. My only reservation about it was really the loss of Kurt's uniqueness. The rest was fun issues that relate from Azzy. Such as Abyss. I SAID I was having fun speculating based on descriptions. And that I expect my feelings would change. My view is far from formed too, at this early stage, this is merely my first impression.

But yeah, I am tracking an issue down. :D

Heeey, why is the red yelling Nighty swearing?! :?
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Dr Nightcrawler » Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:52 pm

*Mistake*
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby digidestined02 » Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:35 pm

That is intresting to know about Kurt's father.I dont read the comics, and I thought all this time his dad was a count.Oh well,maybe I should start reading the comics.
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luvin the nightcrawler origin stuff

Postby plazmatik » Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:33 pm

man, im really lovin the nightcrawler origin, it iz off the hizzle fo shizzle.

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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Gaz » Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:55 am

So does this mean kurt is only half mutant? Or not mutant at all??? I'm so confoozed.... My comic store always gets comics way later than when they are "out".
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Phoebe Mittens » Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:52 am

I think this means we don't know yet. It could go either way.

Mabus and Bamfette probably know, but they very sensibly aren't telling. ;)
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Bamfette » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:11 am

*gives Phoebe a cookie * :D

yeah, i know. but i really can't answer that particular question right now... it COULD mean Kurt is not a true mutant. but maybe not. it all depends on what Azzy is. you'll find THAT out during the Draco arc of Uncanny. considering the arc has already begun, it really isn't much of a wait.
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby NightPoofer » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:11 pm

This is all so exciting! I get really anxious when Bamfette or MabusRex say they know something but they won't tell! Maybe I can get them tell me :naughty ... um ... I'll just wait for the next few issues.
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who/what is this Azazel guy, anyway?

Postby Nemesis » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:09 pm

Originally posted by Bamfette
Azazel is Kurt's biological father. he has the same physical characteristics as Kurt, but is red.

Just curious, would that be red skin, or red fur?
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