Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by OctoberHoliday »

Wow, those are all very good questions, and I think that I can answer two of them, at least partialy.

This time around, they decided to combine the Red Queen and the Queen of Hearts. I suppose it make some sense, since the characters from the first book are much more popular than the ones in the second, and it'd be nice, in my opinion, to recognize the villian.

As for Alice remembering them, I'm not sure. But I do think that they remember her. The Hatter recognizes her in the teaser trailer, scolding her for being late. I don't know if that's how it'll be in the movie or not, but that's the evidence I have for now. :)

But who is the crow?
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by Jeremus »

In the Looking Glass, when the Tweedles started their battle they were scared off by a giant crow (at least I think they were....it's been so long ago since I read this story). I thought I saw a giant bird attacking them in the trailer and carrying them off.....of course, it might have been some other bird in league with the Red Queen.:shifty
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Uhm....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't she "late" in the book anyways? Is mostly everyone expecting her, or acting like they already know her?
From what I remember the story was completely whackadoo to begin with, so you really don't question why everyone seems to already know her.
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

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Wasn't she just following the White Rabbit? He was late to the croquet game with the Queen, but I don't think she was invited or anything, just tagging along out of curiosity.

Maybe this time around she actually is invited, so now they are expecting her. That would be awesome! Or maybe it's like that whole save the world and destiny thing when the other characters are in need of help and they have been "expecting you."

[Edited on 1/8/09 by OctoberHoliday]
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

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I could've sworn Hatter & Hare were waiting for her.
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

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Oh! You mean the tea party. I thought we were talking about the croquet game.

I don't know if she was invited to the tea party. It's been a while, and that was a very confusing scene, lots of things going on at once. I think she probably was, or else she wouldn't have gone, but then again, it could have been chance. I really need to read it again.

[Edited on 3/8/09 by OctoberHoliday]
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by Crocodile Hunter »

There's only a limited amount of stuff I can say about Tim Burton.
But one of those things is that in my opinion most of Tim Burton's movies are like a series of movies that are all named: "Oh so different dreams of Tim Burton part #" with same actors playing different roles.

You know, it's just that I don't like the fact that he uses the same actors in the starring roles in most of his movies.

Because after seeing Johnny Depp so many times in so many of Burton's movies, I don't get the feeling that the character on the screen is for example Mad Hatter, but indeed Johnny Depp playing just another role in just another one of "those Tim Burton movies".
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by OctoberHoliday »

Yes, I know what you mean. The two have made tons of movies together. Other actors could be used, and Burton keeps on using the same ones. After a while, you start to see them as actors, instead of characters in a story.

But if you think about it, most of Depp's biggest and most popular movies wouldn't exsits if it weren't for his collaborations with Tim Burton. Willy Wonka, Ed Wood, Edward Scissorhands, Ichabod Crane, Sweeney Todd, and now the Hatter are all because of the Burton/Depp team up. Wouldn't you be sad to see at least one of them go?
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by Esynthia »

Ult_Sm86 wrote:Uhm....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't she "late" in the book anyways? Is mostly everyone expecting her, or acting like they already know her?
From what I remember the story was completely whackadoo to begin with, so you really don't question why everyone seems to already know her.
Of course it's "whackado". He was on LSD when he wrote them. lol
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by Jeremus »

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I could've sworn Hatter & Hare were waiting for her.
I think when she met the Cheshire Cat, she didn't know which way to go so he told her there was a Hatter in one direction and a March Hare in the other direction and that they were both mad, and so she chose the Hare....and then found them having a tea party at the Hare's place. When she got there they just said "No room, no room!" but I don't think they knew her.
But in the trailer, it definitely sounds like the Hatter was waiting for her.
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

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Yes, that's it! I remember now. It was just after Alice tried to save the baby/pig from the Duchess. So I guess this time around it's only Alice who's forgotten. After all, when she was a child and went on these adventures, she took them for dreams, and I bet we all have trouble remembering all of our dreams ten years after having them. Very neat.

But I sort of agree with Ult (or what is it you guys keep calling him/her/dang-i-have-no-idea) about the Hatter being Alice's guide. The Cheshire Cat has always been the one to show Alice everything, and he's always been the one who knows that everyone and everything there is a bit, well, wrong. Well, not including the second book, since the Cheshire Cat wasn't even in TtLG.
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Post by Jeremus »

The Cheshire Cat seems to be the only "sane" person in Wonderland....except (maybe) for Alice.
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Cheshire Cat sane? That's arguable.

I'm fairly certain he's the only one who's self-aware. Which makes him the best guide/narrator/etc...
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

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I agree, he seems more, shall we say, mindful of Wonderland than most of the others.

But I think that I'd be able to click more with an actual human being, no matter how mad, than with a disappearing cat. No offense to the Cheshire Cat (I actually have a shirt with the picture of Alice and him from the book on it :naughty).

But based on the teaser trailer, he still seems like he'll be a part of the story, besides the main four dudes of course.



[Edited on 4/8/09 by OctoberHoliday]
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by Jeremus »

Yeah...."self-aware" would be a better word.

In the trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiPR6kA4_iU

about 56 seconds into it....there's a giant monster that's roaring....is that the Cheshire cat?

And it's interesting, but if you pause the picture, the cards look a lot like the card soldiers from "The Looking Glass Wars" by Frank Beddor. In fact, the whole Red Queen take-over of Wonderland sounds like that book....

[Edited on 01/19/09 by Jeremus]
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No, I don't think so. I can only think of that creature as perhaps being the bloodhound, whatever that is, as played by Timothy Spall.

And what is "The Looking Glass Wars," about?

[Edited on 7/8/09 by OctoberHoliday]
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The Looking Glass Wars is about a girl/princess named Alyss of Wonderland. I think it is her aunt who takes over the kingdom in a bloody coup and kills Alyss's parents. The aunt then become Queen Redd. Alyss is sent to our world for her protection, but her body guard, Hatter M gets separated from her and so she's alone. She gets adopted by the Liddell family and tells Dodson about herself. He then writes Alice in Wonderland/ Through the Looking Glass based on what she told him, but she hates the books because he wrote them like children's books when they were 'true history'. So the Looking Glass Wars is the real story of Wonderland and the war the way Alyss remembers everything.

I've only read the first book, but I think Beddor has already published the second and is writing the third. There was also a comic series of 4 issues called "Hatter M" about Hatter's search for Alyss in our world.
It was an interesting take on the Wonderland story.
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Post by Crocodile Hunter »

Jeremus wrote: There was also a comic series of 4 issues called "Hatter M" about Hatter's search for Alyss in our world.
It was an interesting take on the Wonderland story.
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

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Wait, I'm a bit confused. In "The Looking Glass Wars," Is Wonderland still and insanely insane place? And the characters in Wonderland, are they still mad? And what about this Hatter M guy? It all sounds a bit far from the original, and the original is basically all I know.

[Edited on 10/8/09 by OctoberHoliday]
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I think Wonderland is more of a parallel universe that is powered by imagination....and like Star Wars, there's a light side and a dark side. So Queen Redd is on the dark side.
Hatter M is like a bodyguard/weapons expert who works for Alyss's side. He becomes the Mad Hatter in Lewis Carroll's story. Alyss's tutor becomes the White Rabbit character. But I don't think any of them are mad exactly. But Lewis Carroll writes them that way.

The books are sort of an alternate explanation of the whole Wonderland stories. The only thing they have to do with the original, is the setting, I guess. Most of the characters have their equivalents in the original stories, but they have different personalities or purposes. Like the Cheshire Cat in Carroll's story is really an assassin called "the Cat".
It's just really different.
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

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I must admit that I'm half excited and half fearful of this movie. I'm excited because the sets, the colour, all that stuff looks superb, with a very surreal touch that fits this novel. Also, I usually like Burton's crazy and macabre style. However, like it has been said, Burton is not known for great adaptations of books. To me, the best example is Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and that whole subplot of Willy Wonka's dad and Wonka himself being all emo when he was the complete opposite in the book.

The characters' designs are interesting. I don't remember if the novel explicitly mentioned the hatter's hair colour, so I can't judge that. I don't like that they gave such pointy teeth to the cheshire cat. The queens I like, and Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum look okay. Alice... I'll reserve judgent until more images are released.
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by Esynthia »

Jeremus wrote:I think Wonderland is more of a parallel universe that is powered by imagination....and like Star Wars, there's a light side and a dark side. So Queen Redd is on the dark side.
Hatter M is like a bodyguard/weapons expert who works for Alyss's side. He becomes the Mad Hatter in Lewis Carroll's story. Alyss's tutor becomes the White Rabbit character. But I don't think any of them are mad exactly. But Lewis Carroll writes them that way.

The books are sort of an alternate explanation of the whole Wonderland stories. The only thing they have to do with the original, is the setting, I guess. Most of the characters have their equivalents in the original stories, but they have different personalities or purposes. Like the Cheshire Cat in Carroll's story is really an assassin called "the Cat".
It's just really different.
That kind of reminds me of Gregory Maguire's Wicked and Confessions of an Ugly Step Sister (my fav). he writes them from a dif characters perspective than the original tales and the characters are different because of it. Sounds interesting, I'll have to pick it up. :)
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

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Yeah, I've put the books on my birthday list. You've got me hook, line, and sinker, Jeremus :D. But is the Cat a good guy assassin or a bad guy assassin?

I'm kind of diggin' the fuzzy, orange hair on this Hatter. I've not payed too much attention to the Cheshire Cats teeth, all I really noticed that his grin just kept getting wider and wider. But looking back on it, they were a bit over pointy. I think this Alice has a sort of porceline doll look to her. She is beautiful, to be truthful, and from all of the little clips I've seen she looks spectacular.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm extremely excited to see what they've done with the Caterpillar. I can't even pitcure the color it'll be!
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If I recall well, Alan Rickman is playing ther caterpillar, right? I hope we can see an image soon.
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Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

Post by Jeremus »

Esynthia wrote: That kind of reminds me of Gregory Maguire's Wicked and Confessions of an Ugly Step Sister (my fav). he writes them from a dif characters perspective than the original tales and the characters are different because of it.
Exactly.
I really need to read Wicked and Confessions of an Ugly Step Sister. I like the different perspectives....(ever since I read this book when I was a kid about Snow White and the Seven Dwarves and Snow White was really a vampire and the "wicked" queen was really the good guy trying to destroy her. I can't remember what the book was called but it had all these scarey alternate versions of the fairytales. They had a story in there about Cinderella too. Good and creepy....)




To Tober:
I think "the Cat" was a bad guy, but I've only read the first book (and the comic), so if that's the case, it's possible that he could switch sides.:shifty

[Edited on 01/19/09 by Jeremus]
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