Killing off and resurrecting heroes

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Killing off and resurrecting heroes

Post by Elfdame »

I don't watch this show, know a few who do, but reading Wolff's summary of what happened, it sounds a lot like Kitty being Jossed in space.

And why nobody gets excited when a Marvel character dies or is threatened by death.

We've discussed this before, but I wanted to share the link with his thoughts about it. I love Jurgen Wolff's blogs and e-bulletins: great stuff for writers or creative people or anyone needing a fresh perspective.
"Humanity is a parade of fools, and I am at the front of it, twirling a baton." From Chapter 9 of _Brother Odd_ by Dean Koontz / from Chapter 10: "Life you can evade; death you cannot."

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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 »

YES YES YES!!! Marvel characters never stay dead... thus death in the Marvel universe loses its meaning. I mean, the characters always go through this long mourning process, but you'd think they'd figure out that they never really die and they always come back. Logan has made a couple of allusions already to the way Jean always comes back to life.

As much as I hate myself for saying it, sometimes characters need to STAY DEAD. No stupid coming back to life or messed up time-travel stuff. It becomes difficult to suspend one's disbelief when they keep bringing people back.

What's worse, though, is when they leave themselves an out. When Kitty comes back (or if. They might do something that stupid) they'll be able to say, "Oh, she didn't really die, she was just stuck in that bullet thingie and they got her out." Right... got her out of a bullet going several lightyears an hour. I actually hope that some of those dead New X-Men stay dead... it's better that way. The thing with bringing Sooraya back from the grave confused me deeply.

But naturally, Marvel needs death to make a point, but these characters have fan bases and therefore we can't kill them off for long!

It just frustrates me. It really does.
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Right across the lane from the demon and just down the wall from Wolverine.
RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.
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Post by Elfdame »

That's why I appreciate fanfics like SK's and Raven Hare's: they have the guts to keep their characters messed up in response to life-changing events.

I don't have that stiff a spine, so I always deus ex machina mine back to a happy place and leave only emotional scars. I'm so pathetic.
"Humanity is a parade of fools, and I am at the front of it, twirling a baton." From Chapter 9 of _Brother Odd_ by Dean Koontz / from Chapter 10: "Life you can evade; death you cannot."

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Post by The Drastic Spastic »

In the MU there is no death, only hiatus.

When Kitty comes back she's going to be not only a perfect superkid mutant ninja, she is also going to have MYSTICAL ALIEN POWERS from living in some alien society for god knows however long. Kill me now.
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Post by Elfdame »

And don't forget an alien lover named, uh, Peedoor or Pietoar. And she will be able to summon the miraculous rocket AT WILL so it can crash on leper coloniess and CURE everybody.

I should write this stuff for a living ....
"Humanity is a parade of fools, and I am at the front of it, twirling a baton." From Chapter 9 of _Brother Odd_ by Dean Koontz / from Chapter 10: "Life you can evade; death you cannot."

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Post by Angelique »

Heroes isn't that bad yet. I think some people are overreacting.
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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 »

Or she could be like Ororo in that one arc back in 1982 where she dies and is ingested by this gigantic galactic being that bonds with her soul and helps her regrow the tissues...

Lol. Or better yet, Phoenix's twin ether-being SPHINX inhabits Kitty and she comes back to Earth with greatly enhanced new mystical powers and an inability to die!

Edit: You know what's almost as bad as constantly coming back to life? NEVER DYING!!! Wolverine and Superman and any other idiot who can't die gets absolutely no sympathy from me.

Well, okay, Wolvie gets a little sympathy. But not much.

[Edited on 10/9/09 by Dedicatedfollower467]
~Def.
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Right across the lane from the demon and just down the wall from Wolverine.
RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.
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Post by Garble »

I don't see the problem lying with characters coming back, I see the problem with writers killing characters too often in the first place.

I haven't read X-Men in a couple of years (largely for similar reasons of feeling like nothing mattered because a new writer with a new vision of the characters was always right around the corner) but it had often occurred to me that every character in the book had been mistaken for dead at one point or another in their history.
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Post by Elfdame »

Okay, so I know I don't keep up with any of the modern X-titles, but how have I totally missed the fact that they are bringing my beloved Kitty Pryde back after making her Jossed In Space? Not that she was demonstrably dead or anything ... but the whole fused-with-an-otherworldly-bullet-and-heading-into-outer-reaches-of-space thing looked pretty serious in terms of a short life future.

Somebody please be sure to read and post your personal reactions so I will know whether to squee or retch.
"Humanity is a parade of fools, and I am at the front of it, twirling a baton." From Chapter 9 of _Brother Odd_ by Dean Koontz / from Chapter 10: "Life you can evade; death you cannot."

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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 »

Squee, Elfdame. Squee.

I did.

Well, okay, I haven't read her actual return yet, but I did read the comic right before that and I think I'm excited.

Because she needs to come back. She's the most popular female X-Men character of all time. Or something like that.

Will edit and post again when I know for sure.
~Def.
"A dedicated follower of nothing." -- graffitit artist in Brick Lane, London, England.
Right across the lane from the demon and just down the wall from Wolverine.
RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.
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Post by neling4 »

I was kind of hoping she would stay out there. Oh well........

The buzz now is that Nightcrawler will die in X-Men: Second Coming. The only evidence that I can see for that is that:

1. A "beloved X-Man" dies.

Yes, Kurt is much loved.

2. Wolverine is upset and says he watched his "friend" die.

On the other hand, Wolverine has many friends. Anyone who is not completely disgusted by him is his friend. True, Kurt is his #1 friend, but I would expect more tears if it was Kurt who died.
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Post by Elfdame »

I refuse to speculate.

It seems way back in the "Winding Way" part of the solo series, that Mr.-Devil-Man-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named was trying to get Kurt to step aside and not complicate his grand plan, so if Marvel wants to pretend to kill Kurt off, it would make sense. But I wouldn't expect him to stay dead.

Wonder how well the "Manifest Destiny" one-shot by Asmus sold ...?

Okay, so I speculated.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

I still say I think Marvel might be leading up to a Mystic-type team up. People who fight beside the likes of Strange, Magik, Deadgirl, & Ghost Rider (such as Nightcrawler) and will try to tap into that demographic a little more.

Who better to lead the way than Kurt himself? If they kill him, the only sane thing to do would be give him something to do in Limbo until they bring him back.
It would make sense if they off him though now that they got his "Origins" (eeee! :eek) coming out, however, it would also make sense they don't because of that.
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Post by Elfdame »

Ult_Sm86 wrote: If they kill him, the only sane thing to do would be give him something to do in Limbo until they bring him back.
Like mess around with his sister? *snicker, snicker*
"Humanity is a parade of fools, and I am at the front of it, twirling a baton." From Chapter 9 of _Brother Odd_ by Dean Koontz / from Chapter 10: "Life you can evade; death you cannot."

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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 »

neling4 wrote:I was kind of hoping she would stay out there. Oh well........

The buzz now is that Nightcrawler will die in X-Men: Second Coming. The only evidence that I can see for that is that:

1. A "beloved X-Man" dies.

Yes, Kurt is much loved.

2. Wolverine is upset and says he watched his "friend" die.

On the other hand, Wolverine has many friends. Anyone who is not completely disgusted by him is his friend. True, Kurt is his #1 friend, but I would expect more tears if it was Kurt who died.
In the free "prequel" comic which my friend got me, there's a scene where they're performing an autopsy on somebody.

We noticed a few things about this dead person:

1. Whoever he or she is, the body is completely covered, which in some cases could indicate that the victim is female. However, they could also simply be trying to throw us off the scent.

2. This person has normal colored skin -- as evidenced by the two visible arms, however...

3. This person is wearing a watch on his or her wrist.

At this point, its anybody who wasn't established as alive already... including Nightcrawler. It's the watch on the wrist that makes me most worried for it being a Nightcrawler death.

My friend and I have already speculated our brains out, and we're deathly frightened that it is either Nightcrawler using the image inducer OR Kitty right after she comes back.

But then again, it could be almost anybody. Although the people Wolverine would admit as "friends" narrow it down slightly. And its possible that Logan has already cried himself out and doesn't have any tears left to shed, and is more in the anger stage right now.

[Edited on 3/5/10 by Dedicatedfollower467]
~Def.
"A dedicated follower of nothing." -- graffitit artist in Brick Lane, London, England.
Right across the lane from the demon and just down the wall from Wolverine.
RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Isn't Bobby a friend?

:smirk I mean... I can't imagine he DOESN'T have a watch? And he's white. And has ARMS!
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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 »

Ult_Sm86 wrote:Isn't Bobby a friend?

:smirk I mean... I can't imagine he DOESN'T have a watch? And he's white. And has ARMS!
... and was seen alive, well, and talking during the prequel comic. ;)
~Def.
"A dedicated follower of nothing." -- graffitit artist in Brick Lane, London, England.
Right across the lane from the demon and just down the wall from Wolverine.
RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.
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Post by Slarti »

Dedicatedfollower467 wrote:
Ult_Sm86 wrote:Isn't Bobby a friend?

:smirk I mean... I can't imagine he DOESN'T have a watch? And he's white. And has ARMS!
... and was seen alive, well, and talking during the prequel comic. ;)
And he's basically unkillable now that he just poofs to water vapor and reforms.

Y'all do realize you're playing right into Marvel's hands by doing all this speculating.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Well y'know.....

.....uh....

*tries very hard to think of anyone besides Kurt*
...Shouldn't Jubilee be dead by now?
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Post by Jeremus »

Dedicatedfollower467 wrote:
Ult_Sm86 wrote:Isn't Bobby a friend?

:smirk I mean... I can't imagine he DOESN'T have a watch? And he's white. And has ARMS!
... and was seen alive, well, and talking during the prequel comic. ;)
Is this the prequel?

http://marvel.com/news/all.11269.all_wi ... ~~dot~~dot~

You said Bobby was there and Wolverine were there? Who else was there?


IMO, I don't think they'd do an autopsy on Kurt while his image inducer was on. Since it's a holographic image, you wouldn't be able to see any wounds on him, right? Also, I don't think Logan would let it stay on since he never really liked Kurt using it in the first place and wanted him to be his "real" self.


So, I know I'm playing into their hands, but I've got a bad feeling about this.:(

(Is Jubilee dead???)


[Edited on 01/19/09 by Jeremus]
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Post by Dedicatedfollower467 »

Jeremus wrote:
Dedicatedfollower467 wrote:
Ult_Sm86 wrote:Isn't Bobby a friend?

:smirk I mean... I can't imagine he DOESN'T have a watch? And he's white. And has ARMS!
... and was seen alive, well, and talking during the prequel comic. ;)
Is this the prequel?

http://marvel.com/news/all.11269.all_wi ... ~~dot~~dot~

You said Bobby was there and Wolverine were there? Who else was there?


IMO, I don't think they'd do an autopsy on Kurt while his image inducer was on. Since it's a holographic image, you wouldn't be able to see any wounds on him, right? Also, I don't think Logan would let it stay on since he never really liked Kurt using it in the first place and wanted him to be his "real" self.


So, I know I'm playing into their hands, but I've got a bad feeling about this.:(

(Is Jubilee dead???)


[Edited on 01/19/09 by Jeremus]
I'd say yes, that looks like the prequel. Its similar to the cover. They're for free, I think, in fact, in my comic book store you can just walk in and take one off the shelf.

Iceman, Magneto, Cannonball, Cable, Hope Summers (the girl the whole thing is about), Wolverine, and Cyclops are definitely still alive.

Jubilee was last seen living in San Fran, totally depowered, but hanging out with the X-kids every now and then.

And I agree, I don't think you'd do an autopsy on a person while they're wearing an image inducer. And we're totally playing into Marvel's hands... I'm more inclined to believe it is a girl than a guy.

Edit: My bad. That is NOT the thing I have. Mine is called X-Men Second Coming Prepare. It's a sneak-preview of the issue you've linked to.

[Edited on 3/5/10 by Dedicatedfollower467]
~Def.
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Right across the lane from the demon and just down the wall from Wolverine.
RIP Kurt Wagner. You were the character who brought in me into comics, who introduced me and inspired me. Now your death has sent me away again. Wherever you are in the Marvel Universe, I hope its someplace pleasant.
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Post by neling4 »

I think it is Professor Xavier.
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Post by Jeremus »

It would definitely not be strange for Professor X to be wearing a watch.
And...I remember in Wolverine #6 where Kurt goes to the bar to meet Logan, his image inducer was in his belt. I can't remember any newer depictions of him using his image inducer, though....
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

NOBODY PANIC!!

I posted on Marvel's Twitter, told them if they kill off Kurt I'll never read another comic.

I think they'll listen. ;) Twitter is vry srs bizns.
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Post by Entropy »

In my opinion killing kurt might be the best thing they could do right now. I mean it's not like he has any real screen time anyway. It would give some time for people to complain and build up interest and after a year or two he'd probably be back, with hopefully a really good return story and more screen time.
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