URGENT! Troy Davis

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URGENT! Troy Davis

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:13 pm

Though Georgia seems intent to kill a man who may be innocent anyway. There's next to no time left, but it's worth a shot:

Stop the execution of Troy Davis

Do I think this guy is innocent? I don't know. Do I think he's guilty? I don't know. But with the new evidence pouring in, it's not right to just up and execute him without knowing for sure that he was the one who pulled the trigger.

Justice always deserves to be served. But by executing without certainty, you're only making it possible that innocent people die and the guilty are never brought to justice.
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URGENT! Troy Davis

Post by Ult_Sm86 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:11 pm

I am anti death penalty anyways so hearing things like this is just flat out terrifying to me. I'll look at the site closer when I'm not at work but the sad truth is none of this is surprising to me at all. Tax dollars being spent on killing people is bad enough but to do without even being sure of it?

Batman & Superman would be ashamed. And I say that honestly. We should all strive to be better than those who do us harm, and how can we if we pay for them to be executed? In the end it just makes murderers out of all of us.
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URGENT! Troy Davis

Post by Angelique » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:48 pm

Signed with gusto. The death penalty is overused, and it should be reserved only for people who pose ongoing and unrelenting threats to others.
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URGENT! Troy Davis

Post by Angelique » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:12 am

Quick update. Georgia up and did it.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:20 am

Bull shit.

No one goes to the chair saying that if they're guilty.
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URGENT! Troy Davis

Post by HoodedMan » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:50 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote:No one goes to the chair saying that if they're guilty.
... um, really? No one? No one would lie in that situation? I mean, I understand the appeal of pathos but that's a really naive statement.

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. What should have been done or not done in these 22 years? He was found guilty by a trial by his peers. He was found guilty again at appeal. Multiple probation boards affirmed this judgment. There were multiple stays of execution. This is the second time, not the first, that the Supreme Court has turned down a petition to hear the case. The Supreme Court stayed two Texas executions in the past week, including one on Tuesday.

What about our criminal justice system "went wrong"? It's been twenty-two years in which Davis's defense apparently has been unable to present any convincing defense. Every issue's a political one, and this one is whether you support capital punishment and whether you have faith in the criminal justice system. I'm going to be reading trial transcripts when I have time, but my preliminary answers are yes (on principle) and yes, in this case. I don't see why this particular case has sparked as much outrage as it has.

Edit: Punctuation.

Edit: While President Obama did have the ability to stay the execution and declined to do so, it was the Supreme Court which stayed the two executions in the past week. My apologies for the mistake.

[Edited on 9/22/11 by HoodedMan]
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Post by Ult_Sm86 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:00 pm

Well, I feel that's a very intense statement for someone to make in their final moments.

Obviously it's not the most unrealistic thing in the world if someone did go out saying that, knowing that person committed the murder they are being executed for, but I hold people at a higher level than that and I guess I hope that no one guilty says that when they get into the chair.

To me, at that last hour, everything you've done should be marching there before you. All those skeletons are coming out of your closet and getting ready to dance on your grave. To sit there and say that... if it's a lie? It's a bold one.


Look, I'm not saying I know the case any better than anyone else HM, but execution to me is wrong. And to put in "11th Hour" appeals and testimonials/potential evidence they could be executing an innocent person, or at least the wrong person (he may indeed be a criminal of some kind), is all the more reason for this deplorable act to be shut down.

This is what I think of when the death penalty comes up:

1) is it ever morally right to kill a human being?
2) is it okay to kill someone if you aren't at war or aren't being immediately threatened by this person?
3) Is the biblical eye for an eye punishment for heinous crimes cool with you?
4) should we end the life of a bad man if we feel it deters people from doing terrible things?
5) should we trust the U.S. Government to ONLY rub out the truly rotten people if we feel it saves us tax money from being spent on keeping them alive in prisons?

The biggest problem with the death penalty is that it is the only punishment with absolutely no margin for error. If for any reason it is later discovered that the detainee didn't do anything to deserve the death penalty, it can't be overturned or compensated for, because they're dead. An error margin of zero is impossible for government to abide by, and you'd be singing a whole different tune if you were wrongly accused. Life sentencing doesn't have those problems, but is equally effective.
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URGENT! Troy Davis

Post by HoodedMan » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:30 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote:And to put in "11th Hour" appeals and testimonials/potential evidence they could be executing an innocent person, or at least the wrong person (he may indeed be a criminal of some kind), is all the more reason for this deplorable act to be shut down.
Okay, this is what's driving me crazy. Nacht claimed the same thing, that there may be new evidence. There is no new evidence that I can see. There hasn't been any activity in this case in more than a year. The execution date was set in August 2010, an appeal was denied in November, and a petition to the Supreme Court was denied in March. What is the new evidence?
Ult_Sm86 wrote:This is what I think of when the death penalty comes up:

1) is it ever morally right to kill a human being?
2) is it okay to kill someone if you aren't at war or aren't being immediately threatened by this person?
3) Is the biblical eye for an eye punishment for heinous crimes cool with you?
4) should we end the life of a bad man if we feel it deters people from doing terrible things?
5) should we trust the U.S. Government to ONLY rub out the truly rotten people if we feel it saves us tax money from being spent on keeping them alive in prisons?
I think these questions were probably rhetorical, but I'd like to give you my answers:

1.) I think it is sometimes morally wrong to leave a human being alive.

2.) No.

3.) Not applicable. There's a separation of church and state, and religion is not the source of my system of morals.

4.) I don't feel we should end the life of a bad man as a deterrence; I feel we should end the life of a bad man because he's a bad man and a threat to our society.

5.) I don't quite understand the question but sense a massive assumption of bad faith. "if we feel it saves us tax money"... that's not the source of my position, so I can't comment.

Fundamentally, my position is that the United States Constitution grants to the states the right to institute a death penalty for convicted criminals who have committed certain crimes. Morally, we can judge that penalty wrong or right, but in neither case should that right be impeded.

Edit: You, ah, accidentally quadruple posted there, by the way; I deleted the duplicate posts for you. :)

[Edited on 9/22/11 by HoodedMan]
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Post by Ult_Sm86 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:16 pm

I figurd that might happen. My enter button literally got stuck. LOL!


And HM, I just can't stand by that. That's giving the Federal Government that much credit.
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Post by HoodedMan » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:07 pm

Ult_Sm86 wrote:And HM, I just can't stand by that. That's giving the Federal Government that much credit.
You'll notice I said I feel states have the right. I did not say I feel the federal government has the right.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:22 pm

I don't think any form of government can be given that much credit, honestly.
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