Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

thylacine · Post by **thylacine** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:05 pm

Hey... I figured if your parents were Mormon, then... never mind. But I just don't think people should step on other people's toes. The internet is famous for that, since you can't see the person face to face, some people feel they can blast other people or let it all hang out.

When I write stuff, I re-read it for spelling & also for how it sounds. I try never to send anything that might upset any group of people.

Lauren · Post by **Lauren** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:37 pm

it always helps when you use the word some when you talk about a group or something, like, SOME Mormon groups are like cults. Or SOME Catholics are homophobic jerks...etc. etc. It helps to make it so that you don't say most, making it the majority, and not all, which is not usually the case ever.

Warbird · Post by **Warbird** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:46 am

Unless of courst the stated item is fact. I wouldn't say SOME cannibal tribes eat people. Even if I don't know all members of thoes tribes, I'd be pretty comfortable saying ALL cannibles eat people. Who's ever heard of a vegan Cannible? Not I.

I do very much agree that when it's opinion, even when you think it's true, SOME is very appropriate. Especially when dealing with religion, there's no way to know who's right and who's wrong. That's why they call it faith. So with this inability to say for cirtain what's what, respect is of utter importance. I do have to say that I've really enjoyed this thread for that reason. There have been very very few things said that were offensive and disrespectful. Every one knows that religiouse disscusions don't usually go this smoothly.

Lauren · Post by **Lauren** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:08 am

yeah, and if anything is sad that was offensive on this thread, it's dealt with in a mature manner and the person who said it usually apologizes and rephrases their previous statement!

Post by **Slarti** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:48 am

I won't even pretend I've read the rest of this thread, I simply trust that as members of NightScrawlers everyone has been civil and open minded.

I've always loved this forum, if for nothing else then for the tolerance extended by people of all faiths and beliefs. I'm a pagan, and I've never once felt out of place here at a forum for a Catholic character. I appreciate that, and I just want to say I'm happy to be a long standing member of a group that cares more for substance than style.

Hooray for NightScrawlers!

Wolvertique · Post by **Wolvertique** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:49 pm

Yeah, but that's because Catholics ARE Pagans!

(I've been to some forums where people, seriously, would say that. Ignorance, bliss, you get the drill...)

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:50 pm

Well thankfully we all seem mature enough to eventually just agree to disagree on some things instead of it degenerating into a bunch of "is not!" "is too!" "is not!" "is too" "well you're a poopy-head!" "well so is your mother, so nyah!"

Lauren · Post by **Lauren** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:16 am

*cries* No! YOUR mommy's a poopy head! I'm telling on youuuu! *runs to go tell* hehe, no seriously I've never seen a thread like this last this long without someone screaming at another that they were destined for Hell because they were Catholic/pagan/wiccan/jewish/gay/etc.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:47 am

I hear all that "You're going to hell!" crap a lot. A lot of Born Again Christians hang out downtown near where I hang out and they pass out little papers that they expect to change their life. Hey, at least they try.

Warbird · Post by **Warbird** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:58 pm

I almost feel sorry for the people that walk around trying to "sell" christianity as the only way. Do they realize how badly most of them alienate people? Even if I was interested in what they were saying, I think that I'd still want to aviod them because of how strong they come on. It's like even if you're in the market for what a telemarketer is selling, most people will still hang up on them.

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:51 am

For better of for worse, Christianity puts a heavy emphasis on conversion. Gospel means "good news", and we're told very plainly to "go out and spread the news" all through the New Testament. Some say it's absolutely necessary to do this, because anyone who isn't Christian is going to you-know-where (sound familiar?

). Others take a softer tact, that Christianity is the easier, more direct route to grace.

Of course, this can take a lot of different paths. Some evangelize, attempting to spread the Gospel at the top of their lungs. I prefer the "live by example" approach. Show that you're a happy human being, and make yourself likable, dependable, etc. Show them how *good* Christianity can be: don't shove it down their throats.

In other words, screaming to the masses about God and sin is like spam: you hit way too many targets about it who couldn't possibly care less, you're annoying, and you're wasting everyone's time. But if someone is obviously unhappy, and you think that maybe you might be able to give them a measure of hope and happiness, maybe improve their live somehow, and they're receptive, by all means talk.

An interesting point about this: when Christianity was introduced to Ireland, the founding Saints (St Patrick, St Bridget, and one other, can't remember his name) explained to the Druids that Christ was the person they had been waiting for, that all their beliefs and religious ceremonies had been pointing to. That the human sacrifices that were regularly done in bogs and so forth were no longer necessary, because He had fulfilled that role. Incredibly, the druids listened to their arguments, weighed the theological evidence, and agreed. There was no bloodshed, no "red" martyrdom (as dying for the faith is called) in any of Ireland. For perhaps the only time in all of history, the conversion was done quietly, quickly, and willingly.

The Norse eventually converted, too, once they realized that converting to Christianity meant they didn't have to do any more human sacrifices either. This wasn't so much theology as politics, tho. After all; for Wotan's sacrifice, no one was exempt. A great leader might have to do it himself, or sacrifice one of his family. You can imagine how this conversation went.

Norseman: Look, we've got plenty of gods, and you only have one. Well, maybe three. I still don't get that "trinity" thing.

Missionary: It's a mystery. But, look, stay on the subject. If you convert, you don't have to worry about getting killed in one of those rituals of yours.

Norseman:... you mean, I won't get sacrificed on Wotan's Altar? And neither will one of my sons?

Missionary: Nope. And you can still claim divine right of rulership.

Norseman: WHERE DO I SIGN UP??

Lauren · Post by **Lauren** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:56 am

lol, yeah I picture people signing up just so that they don't have to be killed in a sacrifice.

See, why can't most missions be like those where they calmly explain what their faith is about instead of beating the people with the Bible? It's easier to catch flies with honey.

Warbird · Post by **Warbird** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:03 am

It's really easy to catch flys with crap though. that's why Politians rock so awsome at bull $#!t:D

Lauren · Post by **Lauren** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:07 am

yeah...but what if you put honey on it? would it attract even more flies? hehe

I think that's why everyone liked Mr. Rogers...he was always so nice when he talked about important stuff like that.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:13 am

What makes the forcing of Christianity of people even worse is when they do it to poor people in other countries. I find it so sad that these privelaged christians come to these poor families and instead of bringing something that is guaranteed to come in useful, such a food, they give them a bible, which so far isn't determined to be helpful in the afterlife at all. I just find it to be such a waste of time.

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:49 am

Mmmm. Honey and crap.

That's interesting about the druids.

thylacine · Post by **thylacine** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:41 pm

Quote: "There have been very very few things said that were offensive and disrespectful. Every one knows that religiouse disscusions don't usually go this smoothly."

Yeah... I'm really, really proud of how everyone behaves around here. I go to other message boards and people cannot discuss any philosophical topic without hurling insults at the other person. You guys are awesome and cool.

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:46 pm

Gaz - that's why I like the Salvation Army so much. Their motto is "Soup, soap, then salvation." They *do* bring food and clothing to poor folks, and only after then do they hand them the bibles.

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:24 pm

Personally, I have NO patience with "missionaries" who are so busy "saving souls" that they utterly neglect the life that is attached to them. In some ways, it's easy to "save souls". After all, since there's no empirical evidence one way or the other on the matter, it's 100% faith, all you have to do is talk the talk. No walking the walk required to save a soul.

But getting your hands dirty and improving lives? That's different. That's measurable by a lot of yardsticks. That makes an impact now. You can always tell the true missionaries by the way they link the two together, improving the lives as they show how their religion (whatever it is) fits in.

As a wee bit off-topic, this goes for more than just religion. This goes for political, social, and environmental views as well. It's so easy to say how horrible it is that the rainforest is disappearing. Righteous indignation makes you feel better, and superior, to all those stupid, earth-destroying, short-sighted, greedy people who slash and burn down there. But all the lecturing in the world won't do a damn thing if you don't give a poor charcoal-maker with a family something better to replace it with! They aren't burning down the trees because they're bored, or because they're destructive by nature. They're doing it because they have a family to feed, and they don't know any other way to live. So if you want to make a difference, make a difference. Go down there, teach then why this is wrong, and give them a lifestyle to replace it with. Teach them to harvest sap, give them a job reforesting instead, make it possible for them not to keep going with what they know.

Because if it's either following your point of view, or feeding one's family, guess which is going by the wayside?

Warbird · Post by **Warbird** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:59 pm

Salvation Army also has a drug rehab program and gives jobs and homes to recovering users and homeless people. There's a few private missions in my town with this program also. I very much agree that's how people should convert others (if at all). Help them to improve their lives and set a good example. Unfortunately, people are too lazy and would rather complain and preach than actually help. It's depressing how unmotivated people are to help their fellow man.

I'm not sure about this, but I think other than large industries, It's farmers that are destroying the rainforests. They're using modern means to grow crops which is poluting the area. On top of that the soil there isn't fertile really. Most of the nutrients are gathered by the local plants awayfrom the ground. Farmers are exhausting the fertility of their land in a few years and then moving on to clear more forest for more planting.

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:41 am

Originally posted by Warbird
I think my computer has a glitch. This is the second time my post has doubled and I have no idea why. again, I'm really sorry.

Sometimes that happens, Warbird. It's annoying, but no big deal. And it is fixable. Just click Edit, then go down and click on the Delete this post! checkbox.

Lauren · Post by **Lauren** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:53 am

aww but the message was so important about the salvation army that it just had to be repeated, just to get the message across.

Warbird · Post by **Warbird** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:12 am

Yeay, I fixed it. Thanks for the help. I'm so not computer Savey it's rediculous. Any time there's anything wrong with my parents computer, my sister used to just assume it was my fault. I'm supposed to be part of the computer generation for pete's sake!!!! I think I've been left behind.

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:31 am

I'm all for those Christian groups that actually help people, like churchs that have food drives and the Salvation Army and all that. I am mostly bothered when they would rather stick a bible in some starving mothers hands then a decent meal.

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:20 pm

Gaz, I think most Christians feel the same way, or at least most of the ones I know. It seems that those who prefer the other way are the same ones we were talking about earlier who are a bunch of nazis.