I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

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Winged Outlaw
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I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Post by Winged Outlaw »

Originally posted by Crawler
A) He used the WMDs as a pretense for war. That implies to the world that he is damned sure they're there. You do not go to war on an assumption.

I respectfully disagree... I have no problem with pre-emptive war. Saddam didn't have WMDs... but he was damn sure trying to get them. Innocent til proven guilty doesn't apply to national security. it can't.

B) Doesn't matter who else might have. He did. And he deserves the blame.
Possibly, but that's not what I'm basing my vote on.

As I posted later on... I honestly wont cry if Kerry wins. I just think its incredibly naive to think that he'll somehow make things any better... I just don't see it in him at all.
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I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Post by Crawler »

If had been pre-emptive war without false pretenses, fine. I'd have still been against it, mostly due to the "don't question the government!" pseudo-Patriotism that seems to come as a package deal with war around here.

But I wouldn't be as against Bush as I am now. And, no, Kerry may not fix a damned thing. May even screw it up a bit more. But Bush screwed up and got us to the point where we are now.

It's like a choice between eating at a restaurant that you know sucks or eating at the one that MIGHT suck. I take the MIGHT suck.
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I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Post by Bamf Bunny »

Originally posted by Crawler
It's like a choice between eating at a restaurant that you know sucks or eating at the one that MIGHT suck. I take the MIGHT suck.
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I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Originally posted by Winged Outlaw
I'm voting for Bush solely because I think it'll keep the guys who are fighting happy. If you think a Democrat in office will end the fighting in Iraq, you're fooling yourself.
Coming from the people I know who are fighting....wanna know what will make them happy?? Coming home.......

And I think that making such a sweeping general statement as "If you think a Democrat in office will end the fighting in Iraq, you're fooling yourself. " shows what little you know about politics and politicians....

How many soldiers do you know, Outty?? And, this may be too personal and you don't have to answer, but where are you from?? I don't need details, but knowing a state would be cool....
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I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Post by John Doe »

Originally posted by Winged Outlaw

I respectfully disagree... I have no problem with pre-emptive war. Saddam didn't have WMDs... but he was damn sure trying to get them.
So, we're s'posed to wage war with the guy who was trying to get WMDS, rather than North Korea, who's already got 'em and wants to use 'em, or the Taliban/Al Queda, who have a known connection to the 9/11 attacks that started this futile arms struggle?

Hello, again, by the way... it's been a while since I posted here.
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I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Post by little Blue Lucy »

Originally posted by Winged OutlawNot to mention, I haven't met a single soldier in THIS war who's wanted to see Kerry in office.
Well, considering American soldiers are brainwashed to be loyal to who ever is currently running the country, that being Bush (and I use the term "running", loosely btw), it makes sense that they'd be loyal to him.

I strongly suspect your mind was made up long before actually seeing 'Fahrenheit 9-11' and no amount of the truth could change it. That being said. I don't care for Kerry, either. For a democrat, he's surprisingly close minded. I'll probably end up doing what I've done for the past couple elections, voting for a third party. They may have no chance of winning, but at least I won't feel partially responsible if Kerry wins and ends up screwing things up almost as bad as Bush did, though I really wish Kucinich had just won the democratic nomination. :rolleyes
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I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Post by NachtcGleiskette »

Originally posted by little Blue Lucy
Well, considering American soldiers are brainwashed to be loyal to who ever is currently running the country,
I kind of resent this remark. Soldiers are NOT brainwashed to be loyal to anyone or anything. They are people who are already loyal to their country. And loyalty to your country has nothing to do with respect for the person running it...but out of the love of their country, they fight. The people I have talked to do not like Bush. But they are willing to fight for America because they love the country that much. And I have nothing but the utmost respect for that. Calling it brainwashing is nothing but disrespect for those who are putting thier lives on the line for the rest of us...
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I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Post by little Blue Lucy »

I'm sorry NachtcGleiskette. I didn't mean to offend anyone. It just seems to me that a lot of people who join the army are changed. You're treated like dirt, and made to feel that you must follow the orders of your superiors, no matter what. Again, I'm really not trying to upset anyone. This is just how I feel about it. I do respect soldiers for feeling like what they do is noble, for wanting to help protect our country. Also, I will say that not all soldiers will follow orders before considering common sense, and certainly not all of them will be voting for Bush.
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I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Post by Maelstrom »

I think the more precise word for the training soldeirs go through is "indoctrination". There's a point-by-point "brainwashing vs. incotrination" document out there, created by the Marines, that shows why the Marines are so different from the Moonies, but for the life of me, I can't locate it right now.

The biggest thing that separates cult brainwashing from military indoctrination is that fact that you KNOW what you're getting into when you join the Armed Forces. You KNOW what point of view they have, what their goals are, what you'll (likely) need to do to succeed, and what you'll probably wind up doing during your tour of duty. Oh yes: and you also know that there'll come a time when you'll be allowed to leave. ;) All "extended duty tours" aside, there IS a maximum amount of time you can be held in the military: until the tour is over, or you're injured mentally and/or physically and are unable to continue.

The word brainwashing brings to mind The Manchurian Candidate: someone who is no longer able to think for themselves, was forced into the situation against their will, or at least was lied to (by omission or otherwise). Indoctrination should allow you to still think on your own, albeit with a slightly skewed point of view; brainwashing doesn't. And once you're brainwashed, you can never leave without help, or some kind of traumatic experience to snap you.

Sometimes it looks like the Army only wants dumbshit, brainwashed kids to carry rifles and shoot people, but you can't run an effective, brainwashed army. They're not inventive enough to outthink their enemies on their own: once they're cut off from their superiors, they fall like the proverbial Jericho wall. You get yelled at and screamed at in basic training to "break you down", so they can build you up into what they need you to be. And, yes, often the military is filled with idiotic, scheming, incompetant officers whose only incentive is to subjigate you and make you into their own personal slave. And this never happens in the real world, where your corporate supervisor:

* steals your ideas to further his agenda
* lies to get a bigger budget
* drives a big car, while you're stuck with yesterday's Yugo
* berates you because you can't do anything about it if you want to keep your job and pay your rent.... :whistle

And if you think the US Armed Forces have a "master-slave" relationship between officers and enlisted, you aughta take a look at some other armies, like Russia's.... :urg
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I decided to vote for Bush. Please dont hit me in the face!

Post by Winged Outlaw »

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
Originally posted by Winged Outlaw
I'm voting for Bush solely because I think it'll keep the guys who are fighting happy. If you think a Democrat in office will end the fighting in Iraq, you're fooling yourself.
Coming from the people I know who are fighting....wanna know what will make them happy?? Coming home.......

And I think that making such a sweeping general statement as "If you think a Democrat in office will end the fighting in Iraq, you're fooling yourself. " shows what little you know about politics and politicians....

How many soldiers do you know, Outty?? And, this may be too personal and you don't have to answer, but where are you from?? I don't need details, but knowing a state would be cool....
I know quite a few soldiers, and its really kind of hard to put a number on it. My mom works with a good several dozen marines (she's an engineer for the government), and I've met quite a few of them. I've met a lot more at college though. I go to Virginia Tech, which as you may or may not know has one of the largest Corps of Cadets programs in the country, at least within a non-military school. I'm very good friends with several of them, and many are brothers in my fraternity.

So yeah, I've met a lot of soldiers who are going or who have been to war... and yeah, I haven't met a single one who doesn't support Bush, nor one who is not proud of his accomplishments there. Granted, none of them WANT to go to war... but they understand that its their obligations upon having signed up for the military, and they don't try to weasle their way out of it.

Whoever just said the brainwashing comment... that was a completely ignorant remark. I don't mean that as an insult, I mean that you quite simply have no idea what you're talking about, and I'd advise you to meet with some of these troops that so many people claim to "support", and yet never ask for their opinion.

EDIT: Well said, Mael.
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