Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by Angelique » Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:41 pm

Oh, brother. With the names of hurricanes we've had to deal with (Ivan the Terrible, Dennis the Menace, Killer Katrina) I wouldn't be surprised if we had to tangle with Mad Ophelia. Best of luck to you, Paws. Stay safe and dry.
Meanwhile, I'm almost grateful that the worst we have to prepare for where I live is a nuclear meltdown or a volcanic supereruption. Certainly not as frequent a nuisance as hurricanes.
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by Maelstrom » Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:18 pm

Fourpaws, I also congratulate you on your speedy trip, and Godsend. It's going to be hellacious there, but it's also going to be worth it.

My last entry about not being called up for a long time was innacurate. Like so many organizations, the American Red Cross has been working so hard that communication sometimes slips. On Monday night they called me up, and after some back-and-forth "what forms have you signed", we figured out that I *was* needed immediately, and that I should go to the Oakland center during work hours to sign and interview. I went there yesterday. It was a "cattle call" of volunteers (a good thing to see :) ). We were all given two short (15 min each) introductions. The first was to warn us what deployment would be like, and the second to really, really warn us what hell deployment would be like. I felt rather bad for the lady giving the "deployment is hell" speech, as she had to walk that fine line between scaring badly needed people away and giving false expectations, and she'd been doing it for the past week.

Finally, they told us once we signed up for the day-long "deployment orientation" that we should expect to leave within 7 days after that. Seeing as I haven't got my affairs in order at work yet, I had to leave without signing up for an orientation class. (I wasn't alone there: a good 20% of the people had to do the same thing and come back later to sign up.) And there's also that background check the Red Cross does (NO FELONS ALLOWED). But with any luck, I should be going within the next two weeks.

On the local front, a car dealer, with one of those huge electronic message signs, has been flashing information about blood donors being desparately needed. Churches are taking up collections grand right and left. San Jose Mayor Ron Gonzales at one point said that they would take refugees if needed, but sometime on September 8th it was decided that no one would come to California. Believe it or not, I'm behind that decision all the way. The kind of people who wound up in these camps are the ones with no finances and few marketable skills. Can you imagine trying to live in a state that charges $1000 a month for a one bedroom apartment? And all you can find is some $9 an hour job a Starbucks, if you're lucky? And how would they get back home after that? The poor bastards would be stranded in one of the most expensive places in America to live. :

SCAM ALERT!!

Although I'm sure everyone on the board is too savvy to fall for this, there is a "Katrina-based" scam going on. (You knew they were going to pop up sooner or later....) Some yutz with a Peruvian site address is sending out incredibly convincing HTML emails claiming to be from the Red Cross, asking for donations. He (or she) has used Red Cross letterhead, "Verisign security" logos, and once you load in all your credit card info, the letter even forwards you to Red Cross' own website. Let all your buddies know not to fall for this: the Red Cross never solicits information through the mail in this manner.
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by HoodedMan » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:26 pm

Thanks for the alert, Maelstrom. It's always good to keep up on such things. :)
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:36 pm

Northstar, I'm curious about the source of this info in your sig?
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by Angelique » Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:48 am

There was a "mandatory" evacuation issued before Katrina made landfall, but no means were provided to ensure that the people could evacuate. Everyone without a car, without a ride, or without money was, quite frankly left to die while wondering how they would comply with this "mandatory" evacuation. Now they're talking about forced evacuations. :doh! It's a bit late now, for that, isn't it?
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:02 am

There is alot of info floating around on this, alot of things which comopletely conflict each other..I've basically been sticking to Snopes for alot of new info, because it's bpretty unbiased, and the whole point of the site is to post the truth....in regards with Northstar's sig, I just wanted to post this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp


I'm getting so fed up with all this stuff that I'm completely backing off of the politics of the entore situation. The bush haters are posting anti-bush propoganda, and the bush lovers are posting all this other stuff. It's honestly wrong, IMHO, at this point to bring any politics in. Granted, I'm being a bit hypocritical here, but it's too easy for us to sit here and blame. When everyone down there has been found, and the dead laid to rest, then lets talk politics....

Sorry guys...it's really getting to me lately...My uncle came back tuesday and was admitted to the hospital wednesday...he's still there. Leg problems, but also for some psychiatric evaluation. He saw some really haunting things that I won't even repeat here. Hearing about it, though, just made me realise again what a sickeningly horrific situation this is. I've gotten through my disbelief phase, my anger phase..and now..i just dont know what to think anymore....I just pray that no one else has to lose their life in this tragedy....
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by kladyelf » Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:44 am

:hugs for Mael and fourpaws - you go gals and for Nacht and his uncle - i see stuff on the news and that is scary enough - and i'm in Australia! stuff about bodies all over the place... horrible, not something you'd expect to hear spoken about in a first world country but i guess it shows how strong and fragile we are - humanity in general
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by fourpawsonthefloor » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:51 am

Yeah, they have to warn people about disasters. Saying it's stressful and hard is like saying that Arizona is a little warm in the summer.
This happens to be my 5th disaster, but I expect it to be a lot worse than anything I've seen before, and I've seen some pretty icky things.
I just know there's going to be some poor beastie I'm going to have to pick maggots out of...which is so my favorite job. :yech
However, even knowing I'm up for 10 days of hell, with likely no shower, no electicity and probabally cold food and a hard bed, I'm still excited.
That is simply because I am an adrenaline junkie.
Thanks for all the well wishes - I will be sure to let you all know how it went.
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by Angelique » Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:31 am

Maelstrom and Paws, my prayers are with you. And with you and yours, NachtGleiskette.
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by Crocodile Hunter » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:51 pm

Last parts of Katrina are coming here as wind and heavy rain.. its gonna last for 4 days. hopefully, it rains a lot.

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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by HoodedMan » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:36 pm

I do apologise for not responding sooner; I was away.
Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
There is alot of info floating around on this, alot of things which comopletely conflict each other..I've basically been sticking to Snopes for alot of new info, because it's bpretty unbiased, and the whole point of the site is to post the truth....in regards with Northstar's sig, I just wanted to post this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp
But that's not what I'm pissed about. I'm pissed that she didn't approve aid. The other was declaring it an emergency. She declared it an emergency, but did not ask for help, as I said. My signature has been updated with it worded more explicitly, but I stand by my original statement. More on this later.

What happened was that the Bush Administration offered to have a federal takeover of the evacuation. Apparently she thought it would be akin to declaring martial law, in her interesting brand of logic.

Once, of course, US troops were in, everyone in the Convention Center was airlifted out and amazing progress was made. Martial law? You have people shooting policement with AK-47s. GIVE them martial law! You NEED to have US troops in there!

Her declaring it a national emergency made it ELIGIBLE for aid. She still had to approve the aid, which she did not do for an unacceptable amount of time.

Governor Blanco and her Department of Homeland Security did not allow the American Red Cross to give aid because it would "attract people to the Superdome", and she didn't want that. She refused to federalise the National Guard. She didn't allow the entry of US troops into her state for an unacceptable amount of time. She blocked almost every attempt of the federal government and other states to help her, then cries that she's not getting enough support and heads should roll (words mine).

Also, I quote:
The mayor certainly has ordered that but the governor, and that would be me, would have to enforce it or implement it. We are trying to determine whether there is an absolute justification for that.
And I loved the snarky way she said it. Nothing can lower my opinion of that individual more.

I'm not posting propaganda. And I'm not allied with either side. I have my own system of morals to which I expect myself to adhere, and I'm not going to force them on anyone else. But I can state my opinion, and I am very disappointed with said governor.

Sources: The Conservative Voice, Wizbang (2), Newsmax (2), Kare11 (AP), Voa News, FOX News (TV)

[Edited on 14/3/2006 by HoodedMan]
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:23 am

My main point is I feel its still a bit soon to be able to 100% trust every fact we come across...My one critique of your sources is that they all seem to come from conservative websites. I'm not saying that going to a Democrat or liberal website is going to give you any more truthful details. I tend to not trust any article which shows a very obvious bias to another standpoint before proving their own.....i.e. the first article ("As Democrats, the mainstream press and their leftist contingents continue to scream for the head of FEMA's Michael Brown and President Bush, they have "conveniently" forgotten that it was Governor Blanco...."etc) does not paint the other side in a rational light....and if this was about politics, thats fine. But this isnt about politics, it's about finding out EXACTLY what went wrong. I also tend not to trust anything that starts its article with "you won't hear it from many-if-any mainstream press sources", because usually the reason its not going to be in a "main-stream" news source is because it's not 100% truthful....I mean, come on. Conservatives own this country. If it was 100% the fault of the Governer, it would be all over CNN....on which I couldn't find one mention of this...

It seems that they are trying to show some scheme is forming to blame Bush for the whole thing, which is absurd. This isn't about shifting blame, and dragging people through mud. This is about WHY thousands of people died due to inaction and where in the line of power was there a breach?

Anyway, the main point I had in posting the snopes article was because it's one of the very few unbiased places on the internet. The end of tht article did mention:
On Saturday (27 August), Governor Blanco did indeed request that President Bush "declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina." The White House responded to Governor Blanco's request that same day (Saturday) by declaring the emergency and authorizing FEMA "to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency."
Whether that means she did all she could or not..well...who knows? After all it's not a news source, but its the best place to find out if whats being spewed everywhere is on the level or propoganda...

Also, while searching for info on Blanco on CNN i came across this:

Bush accepts responsibility

Who accepts responsibility for something someone else is so obviously and undeniably responsible for?


I just want to end with I am not trying to shift the blame to Bush. I did jump on that bandwagon right away....but I don't know anymore. It just doesn't seem so important right now....
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by Crocodile Hunter » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:53 am

funny, i read from a news paper, that actor sean penn was trying to save civilians who were in the danger of flood. But the funniest part of this act was. That hes little boat where he was supposed to rescue the civilians was full of camera crew and other unusefull people.

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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by HoodedMan » Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:14 am

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
My main point is I feel its still a bit soon to be able to 100% trust every fact we come across...My one critique of your sources is that they all seem to come from conservative websites. I'm not saying that going to a Democrat or liberal website is going to give you any more truthful details. I tend to not trust any article which shows a very obvious bias to another standpoint before proving their own.....i.e. the first article ("As Democrats, the mainstream press and their leftist contingents continue to scream for the head of FEMA's Michael Brown and President Bush, they have "conveniently" forgotten that it was Governor Blanco...."etc) does not paint the other side in a rational light....and if this was about politics, thats fine. But this isnt about politics, it's about finding out EXACTLY what went wrong. I also tend not to trust anything that starts its article with "you won't hear it from many-if-any mainstream press sources", because usually the reason its not going to be in a "main-stream" news source is because it's not 100% truthful....I mean, come on. Conservatives own this country. If it was 100% the fault of the Governer, it would be all over CNN....on which I couldn't find one mention of this...
Of course you can't. I review both sides but both sides have been notoriously silent on the issue for both sides. Liberal websites are silent about the governor's faults, and conservative ones are silent about Bush's. I was just proving my point about how Bush was not all to blame. I simply posted those as the sources because I wanted to note that there are many sources. I wouldn't post just one FOX News article as a source or one CNN one.

As for Bush accepting responsibility, I think it was the honourable thing to do. I don't know that it's what he should have done and I certainly don't think he was 100% responsible, but it was honourable, at least.

Bush authorized FEMA to go on out to her; that's what a state of emergency means, that they're authorized to receive support. But she has to approve it once it reaches her state. And she didn't, because it was "too confusing".

I don't trust 100% every fact I come across. I'm just trying to make sure others don't either, as you are. We're on the same side in our purpose, as far as I'm concerned.
Originally posted by Casshern
funny, i read from a news paper, that actor sean penn was trying to save civilians who were in the danger of flood. But the funniest part of this act was. That hes little boat where he was supposed to rescue the civilians was full of camera crew and other unusefull people.
I wish I could say I was surprised. A lot of celebrities are jumping on that bandwagon, and only a few have truly altruistic motives.
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by thylacine » Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:57 pm

FYI... I was watching a news program & heard that way before this happened, there was going to be money set aside for a project to build up the levee & reinforce it & etc. because people suspected that something like this could happen... And guess what? Bush would not let them have the money to fix the levee!!! And now the whole city is ruined along with so many lives being ruined! Thanks, Georgie!

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Post by HoodedMan » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:27 pm

1. The only budget reductions were in 2003 (a legal settlement and a .065 non-defense spending cut). Sorry about that.

2. The levees were being rebuilt to withstand a Category 3 hurricane, not a Category 5, or even 4 for that matter. The work completed in many parts of the city.

3. The Army Corps' spending for New Orleans' levee project actually has gone up under President Bush: $195 million under Clinton => $276.4 million under Bush.
Originally posted by thycaline
Bush would not let them have the money to fix the levee!!! And now the whole city is ruined along with so many lives being ruined!
4. Where did you get the idea that a.) the levee was broken and b.) Bush controlled the weather? I'd like to see those sources, and I'm sure so would Dan Rather if he were still a journalist.

If you all are seriously suggesting that the president of the country purposefully "ruined so many lives" and the whole city for no particular reason except sheer sadism, you're all off your rocker. Am I going to be seeing "Impeach Bush!" moods again, with no crime that he has committed?

I conclude with:
"The levee failures we saw were in areas of the projects that were at their full project design. So that part of the project was in place and had this project been fully complete . . . it's my opinion, based on the intensity of this storm, that the flooding of the Central Business District and the French Quarter would still have occurred."
-- Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, commander of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers


How about we all verify what we hear on the boob tube and look into it a bit before we spout it off to other people?
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:02 am

Originally posted by HoodedMan

How about we all verify what we hear on the boob tube and look into it a bit before we spout it off to other people?
Everyone has a right to express how they feel....and there ARE a ton of rumors floating around that we ALL seem very suceptible to....and even "facts" that we are all finding are not without bias...

Some of us believe Bush is to blame, some of us believe the Governer is to blame, and still others believe someone else is to blame. Obviously, no one is to blame over the hurricane itself. We're not stupid. It's all about the reaction, and who is to blame there. And right now, there is just no evidence that any one person is to blame for the slow reaction. And the last thing we need right now, is scape goating...

But then, people will believe what they believe...and they have a right to...

End of story: there's no reason to jump down someones throat over what they heard or what they believe...
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by BAMFCentral » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:21 pm

I think hooded is just as tired as you are about all the mis-information and probably could have put it less bluntly... but basically asking ppl to please double check your sources and not to post some rumor you heard...


But saying Bush or the Governor or someone else is to blame well just because thats what they heard it not really a source it is an opinion and should be stated as such.

And Sadly as I watch TV I see everyone laying in there opinion on who is wrong and why. Some just seem to have a mad-on hatred for Bush and want to use this as an excuse to attack him. Others are just generally outraged and are lashing out at our figure head. Its gotten to where I hate watching the news about it because its less about the cleanup efforts and how ppl are doing and more about who is att who and whos fault it is...
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Post by HoodedMan » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:12 pm

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
and even "facts" that we are all finding are not without bias...
How can facts contain bias? The way they're stated can be biased, certainly, like people pointing out an unrelated budget cut to an agency in 2003 and not mentioning it applied to many others, but the facts themselves are not in question.

And yes, BC, I think you've hit the nail on the head... I'm just tired of the whole dang mess. But oh well. In any case, I've been very tired and cranky this week, I really don't know why.

However, I stand by every word I said and how I said it. I don't feel like I was jumping down anyone's throat. I simply feel that people need to look at what they're saying, especially when it has inherent contradictions. People repeating what they heard is how rumours get started, and rumours simply can't be let to run amok, causing damage for no particular reason except to undermine the government's authority.

Seeing how my opinions are controversial, I feel I must offer the General Disclaimer:

Any opinions expressed in my posts are mine, and not necessarily those of the staff or administration of Nightscrawlers.
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Post by NachtcGleiskette » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:36 pm

I put the quotation marks around "facts" for a reason...namely, alot of things being reported as "facts" seem to be either half truths, or complete farcities based completely on party bias.....

I'm just absolutely done seeing people scapegoated. As I said, this whole situation lies in many peoples hands, and more than one of them fumbled...

Anyway, I'm done talking about this. This is my last post in this thread...
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by Angelique » Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:25 am

On to more pleasant things, thanks to not-so-Lovely Rita, my brother-in-law's plans to rescue his artwork and supplies before heading up here may be stymied.
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Post by fourpawsonthefloor » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:14 am

Well, I am back, and I am very tired. It was a good experience, and one that you felt that you made a difference...just maybe not enough of one. There is just so much need there.
It was overwhelming, and I am sure that I will be processing this disaster for months to come. It was also wonderful to meet all the people coming from all different areas to help. The people down in LA were very grateful and happy to have us there, and were very hospitable, even though many of them had nothing themselves.
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by Angelique » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:20 am

Glad to have you back, Paws!
Meddle not with the heartstrings of fans, for we are powerful and hold your pursestrings.

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HoodedMan
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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by HoodedMan » Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:54 am

Welcome back, Paws! It's an awesome thing that you did, and I hope you feel very proud! Doesn't it feel good to help?
ACHTUNG! Alles touristen und non-technischen looken peepers! Das computermachine ist nicht fuer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen. Das rubbernecken sichtseeren keepen das cotten-pickenen hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das blinkenlichten.

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Katrina Disaster in New Orleans

Post by Maelstrom » Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:32 pm

My welcome as well. :)

As for me, I'm afraid it's going to take a while to get down there. : Red Cross has bumped into a serious problem: with the bankruptcy of two major airlines, and everyone else's travel plans to the disaster zone, they can't get flights for us to go out on. Maybe it's okay in other parts of the country, but in California all of the flights to the disaster zone (or thereabouts) have dried up. Now they've got all these volunteers, but no way to get them to the zone. I may not get there until Christmas.

Something I've found on Snopes has me highly irritated. As they did with 9/11, Snopes has dedicated a specific section to Hurricane Katrina "stuff". As I read through the "personal accounts" section, I discovered a couple of "second hand accounts" from the disaster zone and outlying areas of ungrateful, slobby, demanding, destructive refugees. Considering the fact that the news coming out from the actual caregivers has been universally positive, the only reason I can see that these "second hand accounts" have come out is for spreading falsehood. Falshood with a transparently racist cast, apparently done for the sole aim of turning public opinion, maybe even stopping the flow of aid. I guess there's no disaster with a need so great that some hateful [CENSORED] won't try to make it even worse by sewing dissent.

Snopes "personal accounts" section of the Hurricane Katrina disaster.
Eagles may soar, but weasels never get sucked into the intake of a jet engine..... :evil

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