Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread?)

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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by HoodedMan » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:45 am

Originally posted by NachtcGleiskette
BTW, Northstar, I really really reall love your sig.....that quote is FANTASTIC!

EDIT: They change! I meant the one about freedom and moral responsibility...let me see if I can find it exactly..here it is:

"I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
Why, thank you. I'm glad you like my signature. I'm beta-testing a new signature rotator that I made that's database-based, so everyone can have different signature dimensions, colours, and quotes.

I believe the author may have been bumped off the image because of the quote's length. The quote in question is by Professor De La Paz in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress by Robert A. Heinlein. You should read it if you have the time. It's an excellent novel and I could not agree with that quote more.
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Angelique » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:55 am

I actually did quote directly from Wal-Mart's web site.

As for my own experience and word from friends that have worked there, it's hard to cite a conversation that was never put into writing. Suffice to say, I had gone shopping at Wal-Mart without hearing a single Merry Christmas- from anyone there. (And most of the people in my community do celebrate Christmas, though some think I'm weird for keeping the Christmas stuff up for all 12 days.) Then I heard from a friend who actually worked there that management was discouraging the use of "Merry Christmas." This, in a town where Christmas is overwhelmingly observed in one way or another.
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:00 am

Like I said, discouraging is hardly "forbiding". There may have been no "Merry Christmas"'s thrown around, did you hear "Happy Hanukkah"s? "Happy Ramadan"? Is it possible that its NOT about censoring a holiday name, but being all encompassing?

Are there ANY jews in your community at all? Any muslims at all? Any? Can you even be certain? If not, is it possible people from other town and sommunites shop at your local Walmart? Can you be certain? How can some greeter at a Walmart be certain?

If I ran a large corporation, I would take into account that fact that not one denomination shops in my stores. And I would want to make sure all people were comfortable shopping in my stores at all times of the year, and have them know that the people who work for me are aware of the differences in our communites and want to make everyone feel included in a greeting. It just makes sense.

And these things are CORPORATE wide decisions. When large chains make decisions, it effects EVERY store they own. So, while maybe there are mostly Christians in your area, there aren't in others, and these kinds of decisions are made at a coproate level. What one Walmart does, all do.

And if this was a huge problem, if it was being "forbade" there'd be more to hear about it outside of hearsay.

I don't get how something meant to not offend CAN offend. If you say Happy Holidays you offend, if you say Merry Christmas you offend.....What a double edged sword....

And it doesn't have to BE that way if everyone takes the sand out of their ------!



*sigh* for a season about being kind to fellow man, people really arent taking others into much consideration....
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€

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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Angelique » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:18 am

>Like I said, discouraging is hardly "forbiding".

And I don't think any employer has the right to do that.

At any rate, yes, we do have people in our town who do not celebrate Christmas. But bear in mind where I live, the LDS community makes up about 75% of the population. (And some have told me that that estimate is conservative.) Of the remaining 25%, we have, in order roughly from second greatest number to smallest, non-religious, Lutherans, non-specific Protestants (aka, "nondenominational"), Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Assembly of God, Catholics, Seventh Day Adventists, Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Baha'is, Buddhists, Jews, and Muslims. What I find offensive about encouraging "Happy Holidays" in the place of more specific holiday greetings, is the implication that people of religious minorities are of such delicate emotional balance that we would sue over any mention of a holiday we don't celebrate.
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:36 pm

I don't know how many more times I can say the same thing...

Please, just read what I said above about corporations and how they tend to work. I'm sure if you went into your local small family owned butcher or what have you, you'd hear a Merry Christmas. But, going into a Starbucks or Walmart, your gonna hear a Happy Holidays...it's the way corporations run themselves....

Employers have the right to expect their employees to live up to certain standards they set. They have the right to expect that their customers are going to be treated with respect by those they employ, and have the right to expect those customers will enjoy their experience in their place of business without complaint. And if that means encouraging "Happy Holidays" over "Merry Christmas" then thats what it is. It's their business, they make the rules. And I doubt highly that there would be a penalty for someone slipping a "Merry Chirstmas" to someone they knew was Christian, in fact i know there would be no penalty, at least on a corporate level. I worked for Starbucks for a year, and we were encouraged to say Happy Holidays, but there were a few customers I knew very well who were regulars, and I'd be specific for them. It's no big deal...

I'm not gonna say this will be the same everywhere, there may be a manager here or there who takes the rules far too seriously. But thats hardly the fault of the corporation, and its even less evidence of a War on Christmas. Starbucks is also a very different place than Walmart. We had regulars who I would see every day come in, so I'd get to know them pretty well while making drinks. Walmart is much larger, with a much higher volume of people. It's just easier to make sure everyone feels included than to stick with one group of people and have some excluded...

Does this make sense? Do I need to explain it again? I don't mean to sound rude, but we're going on the third or fourth time I've explained this and I don't see you responding to what I fully explain, but a tiny part of the whole post. I just want to know if I'm being clear.

EDIT:
On the part you said about sueing over a holiday not being mentioned: Look how up in arms people are over Christmas not being mentioned! I mean, there ya go!
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€

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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Angelique » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:12 pm

Well, well, one store discouraging the use of "Merry Christmas" would not be sufficient evidence, if it weren't for the fact that for all too many years now, it seems there'd always be some brouhaha involving, say, parents suing over the mention of Christmas or Chanuka in public schools, religiously specific holiday displays in public, the banning of religious attire (such as what happened in French public schools), etc.,. There is no war specifically upon Christmas, I agree. But- and this is pretty much the only thing Bill O'Reilly and I might agree upon- free expression of religion does come under attack far too often in a society that prides itself on religious freedom. When taken as an indication that religiously specific holiday greetings are discouraged, this is by far not an isolated incident.
By the way, this was back in the '80's, so my memory on this is foggy, but I remember hearing on the news about how a flight attendant sued for religious discrimination. Her airline required flight attendants to wear makeup and dismissed her because her religion forbade that. I seem to recall that she won. At any rate, there is legal precedent siding with employees in cases like this. Which says that an employer's right to decide what employees are allowed to say or wear at work does come with certain limitations.
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:13 pm

In that instance, the employer was discriminating against a person with their policy, and large corporations like airlines cannot do that. Of course, there are limitations to what employers can ask an employee to do or say, and an employee has a right to disagree, ask why the policy is what it is, or outright refuse to use the policy. And this could lead to termination, but if the employee has as much conviction in their belief, it shouldn't make a difference. However, there is a huge difference between that and being encouraged to use a more all emcompassing greeting...

Now, of these sotires you heard, did anyone stand up and say "I wont use Happy Holidays! It's against my beliefs!"? Did anyone fight it? Did anyone get fired over it? Most likely: No. Because honestly there are far more freedoms under fire than the right to wish a Jew a "Merry Christmas" than that. This isn't an attack on your personal freedom, it's a way to try and make other people feel like THEIR personal freedoms aren't under attack! And if you are employed by a corporation, for the duration of time that you work for them (be it 8 hrs a day, 5 hrs a day) you are oblidged to live up to their expectations and follow their policies. It's that simple. If you don't like it, open up your own place where you can wish whoever whatever you want.

Angelique, I honestly don't GET your point of view, mainly because you don't provide me with anything factual to back up your accusations, as well you don't address most of what i say in my posts! My main point is that of how large corporations handle themselves, which i have explained a few times over, and you have ignored.

I also don't seem to get why you can't see the other side of the argument, the side thats saying "I don't celebrate Christmas and therefor don't want to be wished a Merry Christmas"

All I need is clarification. I just don't understand your point.
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€

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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Angelique » Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:30 pm

Here's an important thing to consider, however. My right to not celebrate certain holidays does not preclude the right of other people to wish me a happy one anyway. If someone were to wish me a happy one of any of the vast number of holidays I don't celebrate (such as Pioneer Day, on July 24, which is a big deal among our LDS majority), that's their Constitutionally protected right, and it is by no means an attack on my beliefs. Telling me I'm wrong to not participate is an attack. Wishing me a happy-whatever-holiday-it-is, whether I celebrate it or not, is not an attack. For me to tell them what holiday greeting they can or can't use in my presence is an attack on their beliefs. Not to mention a rude failure to graciously accept what's intended to be a small kindness.
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:17 pm

again..whatever one does on their own time is their own business...im talking from a business perspective..from the perspective of corporations..if you wish to know how that goes, read every single post I've already made.

But I'll post the main point right here: Businesses have a right to make their employees live up to certain expectations and standards they have set. If that means encouraging (which is far different than forbiding..and completely within their right, while not infringing on anyones rights) the use of Happy Holidays then thats what it is. If one doesn't like it, find a new job. This is how corporations work.

Again, if you need clarification on this, check my other posts. I've explained it quite a few times.

Next topic
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€

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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by HoodedMan » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:45 am

I object that everyone's wishing me a happy new year. I could be Jewish or Chinese. :[ , in case anyone was unsure.

I'd like to quote a post that a friend of mine put on his weblog on the 20th.
Originally posted in not that
I'm sure you've all seen the recent debate over whether one should wish others a Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays or Merry Kwanzaa or whatever. Let me weigh in just very briefly on this whole issue:

WHO CARES?!?

Honestly, people, don't we have more important things to worry about at this time of year? Do you really think the homeless guy who's going to spend the night under the overpass tonight really gives a good [spoiler]goddamn[/spoiler] if you wish him Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays? Do you think all the uninsured children in this country care? Can't we focus on this as a season of love and not as a season of conflict?

To the fundie wingnuts out there who insist that this is a Christian country that has to celebrate a Christian holiday: I don't know if you've noticed or not, but since the Puritans moved here in the 17th century, a variety of other religious groups have moved in, too. We've now got Jews, Hindus, Muslims, and a whole host of others here in this country; it's not a Christian country. And to all of you who are offended by "Merry Christmas": yes, it's originally a Christian holiday, but I think we can all agree that it as secular as it possibly could be now. I know atheists who buy each other presents and do the whole rigmarole and who aren't at all offended by a hearty "Merry Christmas!"

All of you get over yourselves, please.
I couldn't agree more; I know that my position may be controversial, but I really think that there are more important things to worry about over the holidays, like making sure everyone has a good holiday, no matter what they celebrated. Who went out and volunteered at a homeless shelter or at the library? I'm curious to know what everyone so intent on wishing everyone a "Merry Christmas" did to make sure the other person's Christmas was merry.

In other news, Mighty Festivus! Happy Winter-een-mas! :D
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Confizzle » Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:05 am

Just as a small fact... the Puritans banned Christmas in the 1700's calling it a pagan/cult holiday.

I'll play safe and wish everyone a Merry (insert holiday here) and to all a good night.

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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Angelique » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:11 am

Also the assumption that people complaining one way or another about holiday greetings or the lack thereof aren't doing anything to ensure people actually have a happy whatever day the calendar says it is can be a bit judgmental. The person who complains that "Happy Holidays" fails to acknowledge how special their preferred holiday is, as well as the person who thinks any mention of any holiday amounts to religious persecution, probably do indeed spend the 23 other hours they have in their day doing other things. Like, for all any of us know, taking in hurricane survivors, sending gifts to disadvantaged kids, and so forth.
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:15 pm

Amen Northstar

Amen

If everyone just took a second to love and respect one another, we could get past all this bullshit...

It's all about love, people..

Love
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by HoodedMan » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:25 pm

Originally posted by Angelique
Also the assumption that people complaining one way or another about holiday greetings or the lack thereof aren't doing anything to ensure people actually have a happy whatever day the calendar says it is can be a bit judgmental. The person who complains that "Happy Holidays" fails to acknowledge how special their preferred holiday is, as well as the person who thinks any mention of any holiday amounts to religious persecution, probably do indeed spend the 23 other hours they have in their day doing other things. Like, for all any of us know, taking in hurricane survivors, sending gifts to disadvantaged kids, and so forth.
Sure, it's judgmental. But from what I've seen, it's also unfortunately generally true. Sure, there are exceptions, but hypocrisy abounds in any religion.

Furthermore, you are entirely missing the point.
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Bamfette » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:45 pm

yeah. missed it by a lot. (been busy again, I have 18 drawings to do in a week and a half so i'll keep this brief) the whole point was, originally, that there is no war. Again, I, as an atheist, don't feel persecuted or offended if someone wishes me a 'Merry Christmas'. HOWEVER, it has gotten to the point that if *I* (or store employees) say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, not always but sometimes, especially after allthis media attention this so called 'War on Christmas' has gotten, I (or they) can get a response that makes me feel like I am persecuting someone else when that was NEVER the intent. The intent is to be inclusive. to be polite. I don't know what you celebrate, so i will try to cover if not all, at least most of the bases instead of just one. It's not my fault if some people think I should be able to read their minds to tell what of the MANY holidays they hold most dear at this time of year, and provide them with a greeting specific to that, instead. All this, when I have no belief in Christ whatsoever so logically i shouldn't be clebrating Christmas, anyway? (even though i do, but it's more a family tradition thing) why on EARTH should i feel obligated to wish someone a greeting to do with a holiday I have no belief in? how is that fair?

TRY to put yourself in my position here. I'm just trying to say that no one is trying to make Christmas (or any other holiday) less special, and that the intent is to either be inclusive or because they themselves DO NOT celebrate it, (or both) and therefore have absolutely NO REASON to say 'Merry Christmas'. then you and others far more vocal than you come along and say we're ruining things because saying Happy Holidays makes the holidays less special. Well, that makes me feel like you feel I'm somehow persecuting Christians, or whoever, when that was never the intent. And I am not about to go against my beliefs just to make you happy, and I doubt many jews, muslims, wiccans, buddhists, hindus, etc. would, either.

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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Saint Kurt » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:59 pm

I think actions speak louder than words, but what we are talking about is really just words. Do the words of a greeting from a store employee make them any more or less genuine because it was mandated by company policy? What about those of your friends? If you are a Christian are you not flattered when an atheist friend remembers to wish you a "merry Christmas"? I know I am.

What about gifts? Are Christmas gifts or Chanukah gifts somehow better than those given out of fellowship or love that don't have a holiday attached? Isn't the spirit of a gift or a greeting what is really important?

This debate has been about words and so, with permission, I give you an example of action:


From the Staff Forum:
Originally Posted by Saint Kurt
This year we have a gift for our members!

Northstar, Bamfette, and I have been quietly (and not so quietly) working on setting up a brand new Coppermine Gallery.

Many of our members miss the old gallery so it's going to be great to be able to offer content again. I'm really excited about this.

To be both politically correct and simultaneously avoid any anti-Christmas or anti-anti-Christmas backlash (like with the Holiday trees...you just can't win) Nightscrawlers members will get to open their gift on New Year's Day.
It was posted on Dec. 3rd - fully 24 days before this debate about Christmas and Holidays began. It is the thread in which I announced to the staff the intention to give a gift to the forum as well as our chosen date to give it.

From the Triumvirate:
Originally Posted by Saint Kurt
Here's what I want to do with the gallery:

I want to give it as a holiday gift to the members of the forum (as the subject indicates). :) I was thinking about New Years Day as the day so it couldn't be construed as a gift belonging to any particular religious holiday.
Posted Nov. 27, nearly a month after Northstar and I put the kabosh on giving the gallery as a party favor for my birthday (and to celebrate Nightcrawler's, Dave Cockrum's, and Darick's birthdays as well) because it wasn't ready. It was then that we decided "around Christmas, but not ON Christmas".


So, I apologise my friends, but it is not only the big corporations - it is here.

Why did we chose the date we did? Why, all the way back in October did I start thinking of alternatives to a "Christmas Present" for the members of our website?

Simple. Not all of our staff believes in Christ, or God, or Allah, or Mithras or whatever so it would be inappropriate to force them to make such a gesture on behalf of any particular religious celebration. And because not all of our membership celebrates Christmas, or Chanukah, or Ramadan, or Dies Natalis Solis Invicti etc. I wanted to make a sure our gift was inclusive as possible. Everybody celebrates New Years. (Except for Northstar, but I'm going to get him a bitchin' card on Rosh H'Shona to make up for it). Jan 1 was unanimously agreed upon by the entire staff as an appropriate choice not just because of the portential conflicts it avoided, but because it was a great way for Nightscrawlers to start the New Year off with a bang.

The project was 5 months in the making. The first post in the staff forum kicking off the resurrection of the gallery was in August and within a day we had a test install running. The rest of the time as been spent learning the new software, finding the images, and ironing out the kinks; putting a lot of love into a gift we hoped our members would love.

So, now I ask you, is this gift from us, who actively avoided associating it with Christmas or any other religious holiday, any less special to you now that you know the truth?

We hope not, because the spirit in which it was given remains unchanged.

-e
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by HoodedMan » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:10 pm

Saint Kurt said a lot of what I wanted to say, but I pondered it for a while and I'd like to add this.

I think the point is, it's nice to be wished a happy holiday, whatever it may be. It saves brain damage on the part of the wisher (I know I need a better word there) and the person being wished (;)) isn't offended that the wisher was wrong.

I think that entire season is not about any specific holiday, it's about the cheer and generosity. It's an excuse for people to be nice. It's about people holding the door for you because they're having a good holiday, even though it may not be exactly 25 December. It's about the child, caught up in the season's warmth, who donates her lunch to the homeless guy who lives by the school.

Who cares what day it is exactly? It's just about the season, and wouldn't it be nice if we could keep it up all year? If only.
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Angelique » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:25 pm

Well, the person being wished a happy wrong holiday has to be a bit of a scrooge to get offended over that.
And generosity and all that good stuff needs no specific day as an excuse.
At any rate, I actually do refuse to say Happy Holidays. I can understand why other people might, if they don't want to write out every single holiday someone might or might not be preparing for. But I think it's ridiculous to do that out of political correctness, especially since some people don't believe in celebrating any holidays whatsoever. If a certain holiday greeting is appropriate, I will refer to the holiday by name. Regardless of what it is, and, as it happens every so often, whether or not I celebrate it.
This reminds me of something that made me almost embarrassed to live in my state. We finally got around to observing the birthday of Martin Luther King Jr. as a state holiday. Well, a whole lot of people were offended about that, insisting that the Kings were hogging all the credit for the Civil Rights Movement (not true, of course), or saying he wasn't such a wonderful person, that we don't have to celebrate his birthday to stand in favor of civil rights, blah, blah, blah. And the state caved, changing the name of the occassion to Human Rights Day. Guess what. People still got offended! :rolleyes :yech
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by HoodedMan » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:55 pm

Originally posted by Angelique
Well, the person being wished a happy wrong holiday has to be a bit of a scrooge to get offended over that.
You'd be surprised. Are you saying you wouldn't be the least bit taken aback if someone wished you a happy Yule? (For those for whom the soundtrack suddenly went silent, Yule is the winter solstice celebration of the German pagans. Remember all the seasonal singing/talking about yuletides? Who woulda thunk?)

I know a lot of Christians who would. It may seem an odd example to you, but that's because you're Christian and hear "Merry Christmas" all the time. Other people don't hear their holidays that often.
Originally posted by Angelique
And generosity and all that good stuff needs no specific day as an excuse.
That's exactly what I said.
Originally posted by Angelique
At any rate, I actually do refuse to say Happy Holidays. I can understand why other people might, if they don't want to write out every single holiday someone might or might not be preparing for. But I think it's ridiculous to do that out of political correctness, especially since some people don't believe in celebrating any holidays whatsoever.
I didn't say I said it out of political correctness, I do it out of simple politeness. There may be no difference for some people, but there is for me. I don't want to offend anyone and I think it's nice to wish people a happy holiday.
Originally posted by Angelique
If a certain holiday greeting is appropriate, I will refer to the holiday by name. Regardless of what it is, and, as it happens every so often, whether or not I celebrate it.
How do the Walmart greeters know what holiday greeting is appropriate? Do they look people up and down and say, "That guy looks Jewish. I'll wish him a happy Hannukah, and her a Merry Christmas"? I would think that would be the more offensive.
Originally posted by Angelique
This reminds me of something that made me almost embarrassed to live in my state. We finally got around to observing the birthday of Martin Luther King Jr. as a state holiday. Well, a whole lot of people were offended about that, insisting that the Kings were hogging all the credit for the Civil Rights Movement (not true, of course), or saying he wasn't such a wonderful person, that we don't have to celebrate his birthday to stand in favor of civil rights, blah, blah, blah. And the state caved, changing the name of the occassion to Human Rights Day. Guess what. People still got offended! :rolleyes :yech
You can't avoid offending everyone, because people obviously get easily offended over the simplest things... Please read the entirety of our posts. You aren't addressing the issues and you're missing our point.
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:16 am

You know, with all the crap happening in the world, I can't believe this is even a battle being fought. It's not about political correctness, it's about common curtosey, its about for one second taking into account there are OTHER people on this earth who believe and celebrate OTHER things and wishing that THEIR holiday, whatever it may be is a good one. Of course, on a personal level, I wish friends I know are Christian a Merry Chistmas, JEw friends a Happy Hannukah, etc...but for those I dont know well enough, it's a Happy Holidays, because I want the haoliday they actually celebrate to be happy, not the Christmas they don't even recognise.

But you know.....maybe your right. I refuse to say Happy Holidays too!

Happy Ramadan Angelique!
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Angelique » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:54 am

>You'd be surprised. Are you saying you wouldn't be the least bit taken aback if someone wished you a happy Yule? (For those for whom the soundtrack suddenly went silent, Yule is the winter solstice celebration of the German pagans. Remember all the seasonal singing/talking about yuletides? Who woulda thunk?)

Actually, Jul is also Norwegian for Christmas. Over where Yule really originated, they don't have a separate word for the pagan solstice observance and Christmas. And no, as I have said repeatedly, I would not be taken aback by these things, because quite frankly, I'm a bit used to accepting greetings for a variety of holidays I don't celebrate.
The way I see it, if someone wants to share their religiously specific best wishes, far be it for me to regard that as a bad thing simply because I'm not of the same religion.
And Ramadan came early this year. But thank you. And you have a good one, too!
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by NachtcGleiskette » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:23 am

Could it be the least bit possible, just the slightest bit, that someone else wouldnt be so happy to be greeted a Merry Christmas? What with it basically all over the media, Christmas specific decorations all over towns, stores, etc Is it possible that someone not celebrating might feel a Christmas overload and prefer not being wished a Merry Christmas? Is it possible that in this case, a Happy Holidays may be better?

No, they're just a scrooge...

:rolleyes
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by HoodedMan » Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:51 am

Originally posted by Angelique
Actually, Jul is also Norwegian for Christmas. Over where Yule really originated, they don't have a separate word for the pagan solstice observance and Christmas.
You're trying for technicalities, but I don't buy it. Here, if someone wishes you a happy Yule (which people have to me), trust me; they don't mean Christmas.

And I guess we just need a lot more people like you who won't be offended no matter what holiday people assume they celebrate. It's a shame we don't, because then wishing other people would have happy holidays would just become obsolete. =/
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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Confizzle » Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:37 am

To get off the subject of Christmas.

T.V. "Evangelist" Pat Robertson called Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon stroke "God's Wrath" for dividing up his land a.ka. (Gaza, Israel, West Bank). It's just low... Robertson is giving the rest of us Christans a bad name when he spouts off like that. He may have a different point of view from Sharon on Israel and such but to justify such a tragedy is like the people who said America had it coming on 9/11. I don't think Pat speaks should try and speak for God and his "wrath" because no one can, we can only guess.

As a question: Why is everyone fighting over land 1/7th the size of Flordia?

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Schiavo autopsy finally released... (the new religion thread

Post by Angelique » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:33 am

It's not the size of land. It's the whole history behind it. Everyone wants access to their sacred sites, to live wherever they see fit, and so forth, but they don't seem especially keen on allowing others the same right.
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