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Crocodile Hunter
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Post by Crocodile Hunter »

Join in to the fight for better world, for world... Without porn!

http://www.teensagainstporn.com/index.php

"You are not alone! You have questions. You have fears. We know, we've been where you are. We are right here with you. All you have to do, is join the community. We will pray for you. We will hold you accountable. We will offer advice and techniques for claiming victory over the area of sexual purity in your life."
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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

I would not have made it through my teen years without porn. Or I'd have 5 kids.

Wait, now...why are teens against porn? They shouldn't be looking at it to begin with!
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€
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Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

HAHAHAHA! That's what I thought when I first saw that. Like...uhhh.

Mind you come to think of it, I snuck my parents smut books when I was that age. The thing is that teens, like it or not, are biologically primed for action at that age. Yes, as a society with longer lifespans than what we evolved are now encouraging our kids to wait (and yes, I agree fully with this) the fact remains is that the hormones are still there. They need to work them off SOMEHOW. All through history, up until recently, they were getting married at 11-15 yrs of age.

Now does that mean I want my teen looking at porn? No. Hell, part of me doesn't ever want to consider my children as ever being sexual.

But...there has to be some happy medium, expecially as they get into their older teens. I do plan on telling them that mastrubation is a cool and ok thing to do, when they are old enough. I'd rather have them taking extra long showers than have them doing 'other stuff.'

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Post by NachtcGleiskette »

I just don't get why we need to like....be "against" things and preach about it. You want to make a personal choice to not partake in something? That's great and it's your right. As is it everyone else's right TO partake in something. And honestly, being that teens legally aren't supposed to be looking at porn or be able to access porn to begin with, the whole group is kind of absurd.

And do we really need to keep teaching that all these confusing, natural emotions and urges teenagers are going through are wrong and immoral? Again, any teen who does want to abstain from sex, masterbation and even common curioisity, thats fantastic. But spreading the word that not doing that is wrong is just...ignorant.

Wanna be against something? Be against something that's actually a problem. Like drugs.
"If you live your life to please everyone else, you will continue to feel frustrated and powerless. This is because what others want may not be good for you. You are not being mean when you say NO to unreasonable demands or when you express your ideas, feelings, and opinions, even if they differ from those of others.â€
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Post by HoodedMan »

I do think it's important that teenagers be sexually educated and active, but if teenagers have decided, without parental influence, that they find pornography distasteful or immoral, then all power to them. I see nothing wrong with that.
ACHTUNG! Alles touristen und non-technischen looken peepers! Das computermachine ist nicht fuer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fuer gewerken bei das dumpkopfen. Das rubbernecken sichtseeren keepen das cotten-pickenen hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen das blinkenlichten.
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Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

Well...I disagree a bit. Porn can be a bit of a problem, yes. Not like drugs - but still.

I'm actually fine with the site itself...its more as a support group for the people who wish to participate than a 'preachy' site. They are pretty respectful in their viewpoint as well. They aren't going out and slamming everyone from what I can see...

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Post by dewde »

!!-- Mature Content Warning - Admins please edit me if needed --!!

Hey folks it's dewde, admin of Teens Against Porn. I logged into chat last night as afropoop.

I was invited to come back today and check out this thread so here I am.

This thread is consistent with what I would have expected based on the fine folks I met last night. An open, honest exchange of ideas, opinions, and beliefs without any bickering, mudslinging, or generally trollish behavior. If only the net had more communities like this one I wouldn't have to sneak around under alias "afropoop".

Paws is right on the money. Our site is a support group. Here is a brief summary of why we exist.

FAQ: But, but, but... WHY?

Our site would be better titled "Teens Against Ourselves Using Porn" and not the usual interpretation "Christian Teen Zealots Against Everyone Else Using Porn". Some of our teens would like nothing better than for porn to be censored, banned, abolished, or zapped with the history eraser button (yes, the giant, candy-like one :)). But I don't agree.

here is a snippet from a recent thread on our site:
As for pornography it is a multi-billion dollar industry, the only way it can be shutdown would be through the legal process, if legislation could be passed declaring porn as obscene and harmful (both mentally and physically), then im sure it could be banned.

Sexually violent porn is already being banned in the UK - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 297600.stm
and my reply...

This is a tough one. On the one hand I can see this being very similar to gun control.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

The actual firearm itself is not evil. You could say that the actual firearm itself is amoral. The gun can be used for hunting for food, clay pigeons/sporting, law enforcement, as well as robbery or murder.

In the same respect you can argue that porn itself is not immoral by Christian standards. How the porn is created, and what we as consumers do with the porn, however, can be (typically is?) immoral and even sinful, by the Christian code of ethics.

What is porn for me may not be porn for you. For example I have a few partial-nude paintings in my living room, and even one with a full nude. These are re-creations from the Sistine Chapel. They are not porn for me. I don't think lustful thoughts when I see them. I see beautiful works of art.

On the other hand, however, even with the minimal gun control that we have in most of our United States, some limits are obviously necessary. I can (and have, actually) walked into a gun store and 20 mins later walked out with a Glock, a shotgun, some hollow-points, and shells. But I cannot walk in and purchase full-automatic weapons, RPGs, or even a nuke. Some weapons are off the scale and should be banned for the common everyday citizen. I'm willing to forfeit my right to carry a nuke in my back pocket, if I'm assured that nobody else can carry one either.

In the news story about the UK banning ownership of violent porn... man. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that freedom of speech issue. Did they also ban Hollywood movies with violent strangulation/rape scenes in the UK? Or novels about strangulation rapists?

I hate, HATE the very notion of violent porn. But I also hate censorship. Because once the censorship machine gets into motion one thing is for certain, yours and my right to read our bible is in serious jeopardy. In case you haven't been paying attention, the bible has stories of rape. It also has some graphic descriptions of body parts that could instigate lust in the reader. It even has erotic poetry.

Maybe violent porn is the equivelant of a nuke or full automatic weapon. I don't know. I'm glad I don't have to decide.

This stuff is interesting to talk about, but has little relevance to the intent of this website.
I know Christians in general get a bunch of bad press. Hell, most of them earn every bit of it. My experience with televangelists convinces me more about the the existance of satan than it does God (can I get an amen?). That's one of the things that kept me away from even investigating it for so long. I was not born and raised in a bible-reading, church-going household. I became an atheist in high school (in deep south Georgia no less), and I remained one until a little over 3 years ago when I shaved my head and drank the proverbial Kool Aid.

But I don't think you need to be religious to see that porn, like anything, can be harmful especially in excess. And that's the the important part. All of our teens are deep into porn and masturbation in excess.

Grades drop. Social lives grind to a halt. Instead of getting out and meeting people and exercising real relationships, they recluse and live in fantasy ones where they get whatever they want when they want it and the pixels on the screen are always happy to comply. Depression is experienced because they feel unable to follow the code of ethics they have chosen for themselves. We have some cutters/mutilators also because for some reason that is a complimentary addiction to excessive porn use. Not to mention the physical damage done. I know one guy that would masturbate until his penis bled. Sorry to be graphic, but it's our reality.

I found my Dad's porn when I was a kid. Who doesn't remember the very first porn image they ever saw? mine is still crystal clear in my melon. But those days are gone. A new generation of kids are being "raised" with full unrestricted access to the very worst stuff our world has to offer them and I'm not talking about Playboy. I'm talking about the stuff where after you're done watching the video, you sit back and go, "I could have lived my whole life without seeing that."

I don't blame the 9 year old or the porn producer. I blame the parents. But when that 9 year old turns 13 or 14, he or she can come to our site and feel safe to start figuring out ways to change the compulsive habits he has been feeding for 5 years by that time.

Sorry to yap your eyes off. Think I'm gonna close this up now. Once again, thanks for being cool last night. It is rare to be brought up as a topic of discussion on a site that isn't organizing a raid against you. Kinda nice for a change, actually.

I think I will end with a bible verse since I'm supposed to be all churchy and stuff. One of my favorite sections from the new testament:
1 Corinthians 13

The Way of Love
If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don't love, I'm nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate. If I speak God's Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, "Jump," and it jumps, but I don't love, I'm nothing. If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don't love, I've gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I'm bankrupt without love.

Love never gives up.
Love cares more for others than for self.
Love doesn't want what it doesn't have.
Love doesn't strut,
Doesn't have a swelled head,
Doesn't force itself on others,
Isn't always "me first,"
Doesn't fly off the handle,
Doesn't keep score of the sins of others,
Doesn't revel when others grovel,
Takes pleasure in the flowering of truth,
Puts up with anything,
Trusts God always,
Always looks for the best,
Never looks back,
But keeps going to the end.

Love never dies.
peace|dewde

[Edited on 3/2/07 by dewde]

[Edited on 3/2/07 by dewde]

[Edited on 3/2/07 by dewde]
I feel like a quote out of context, withholding the rest, so i can be for you what you want to see - Ben Folds
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Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

Awesome Dewde!

And yes, we do encourage open discussion here. The world is full of viewpoints, and that just makes it interesting. :)

Thanks for explaining your side of the coin. It is refreshing as well for us to see someone who offers encouragement instead of condemnation. It blows me away how many Christian groups preach hatred. That seems to me to be totally against what God is about.

I think offering support to those who have a problem with porn, ie use it in excess, is awesome. Support and sharing care and love is never a bad thing.

We have a pretty awesome group here, a mix of religions, viewpoints and lifestyles, and we still remain civil and kind to each other (other . Its pretty awesome. Thanks to everyone here that keeps us such a great community!

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Post by The Drastic Spastic »

I don't like the use of the word "against". It's a potential addiction, just one of many many others. They don't call AA "People Against Alcohol", because that's not what it is and it would give the wrong impression.

If this is just a support group, having against in the name is very misleading. But I guess the URL is bought, so what can you do? :P
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Post by Garble »

I think the word "Against" and the immediate references to God makes people think "Oh... these are those censorship wackos."

People can be addicted to all sorts of things, TV, Gaming, Chat-rooms, Shopping.

The problem usually comes from excess and in some cases where the addictive activity itself is somehow harmful.

I think pornography is only harmful when the viewer fails to separate the fantasy of porn from the realities of sex. Pornography like any fiction is a kind of escapist fantasy, and is in no way meant to be a guide or standard for reality. But people who have little or no experience with sexual relationships can be vulnerable to failing to see that pornography isn't reality. This is part of why I think comprehensive sex education is so important. Someone with no realistic understanding of sex can see porn an not realize that it is a fictionalized presentation of sex with the sensational aspects exaggerated and the consequences (both emotional and physical) omitted completely.
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Post by dewde »

Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
I don't like the use of the word "against". It's a potential addiction, just one of many many others. They don't call AA "People Against Alcohol", because that's not what it is and it would give the wrong impression.

If this is just a support group, having against in the name is very misleading. But I guess the URL is bought, so what can you do? :P
When you're right you're right. And you're right. The name is accurate. And controversial enough to get attention, so that's good.

But it can also be bad depending whos attention you attract.

So yeah it stinks when we get raided, but honestly, I do feel partly responsible. You take the bad with the good. And the community really likes the name. For a teen to openly admit they are against porn these days is laughable, and I don't think it should be. I think anyone should be able to just say "You know what, I'm against it being a part of my life" without being mocked or judged. I thought Christians were supposed to do the judging! I am not comfortable with this role reversal ;)!
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Post by dewde »

Originally posted by Garble
I think the word "Against" and the immediate references to God makes people think "Oh... these are those censorship wackos."

People can be addicted to all sorts of things, TV, Gaming, Chat-rooms, Shopping.

The problem usually comes from excess and in some cases where the addictive activity itself is somehow harmful.

I think pornography is only harmful when the viewer fails to separate the fantasy of porn from the realities of sex. Pornography like any fiction is a kind of escapist fantasy, and is in no way meant to be a guide or standard for reality. But people who have little or no experience with sexual relationships can be vulnerable to failing to see that pornography isn't reality. This is part of why I think comprehensive sex education is so important. Someone with no realistic understanding of sex can see porn an not realize that it is a fictionalized presentation of sex with the sensational aspects exaggerated and the consequences (both emotional and physical) omitted completely.
I completely agree with your points about anything in excess. Also I agree with your points about separating fantasy from reality.

Here is something I also believe though. I believe that men who know porn is fantasy still use it as a crutch, especially in marriage. Surfing porn and the other act that goes with it... it's easier than the alternative. Nurturing romance with your spouse and waiting for sexual intimacy until you are both in the mood. And so I feel that in most marriages where the husband uses porn regularly... he is really robbing himself and his wife of a killer sex life. Porn and that other thing is like hitting a drive-thru for dinner. It's the equivalent of a cheap combo at McDonalds. Quality isn't great but it gets the job done. Would most people prefer a healthy, home-cooked meal sitting around the table with family and a glass of wine? Of course. But it's just too much work most days.

I guess my point is that you can be 100% aware that it's just a fantasy and not consider yourself an addict, and still be negatively impacted by using porn.

[Edited on 13/2/07 by dewde]
I feel like a quote out of context, withholding the rest, so i can be for you what you want to see - Ben Folds
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Post by fourpawsonthefloor »

I understand your points there Dewde, but I think it does depend on your situation too. For example, I've been married 10 yrs now - been with my husband for 13 in total. We have two kids. My husband does view porn. I'm fully aware of it, and am often in the room when he is viewing it. I also do read smut myself.

If anything, I think it gets us...spicier. LOL. But that's us. And not everyone is the same. We're really committed to each other, and in a wonderful marriage, with open communication. I think when a husband hides the porn, or the wife isn't cool with it - that can cause tension for sure. That is when its not ok. Then you are hurting your spouse.

Personally, the biggest blow to our sex life was the kids. ;). Nothing like nursing a baby and getting 4 hours of sleep a day to totally kill any and all desire. For me, that was actually a relief to steer the hubby in that direction, cause it took some pressure off of me. Once they were sleeping through the night and my hormones evened out? Hello!

He certainly would always prefer me, but sometimes our schedules don't match up, or I'm not feeling well (I have several conditions) - or he's tired. In that circumstance it can relieve that 'pressure' a bit - so that one mate doesn't feel obligated when they are really not doing well, and the other mate - who is extremely ready and willing - has something to do. Now that doesn't have to include porn - you can simply masturbate or fantasize in your mind if you have an active imagination. For us though? It's ok. We don't fantasize about having sex with others...it's just another way to get the motor running.

I think the most important thing to an active and fulfilling sex life (aside from conditions/medications such as some antidepressants that can be unhelpful) is to be in really good communication with each other - and to feel secure in the relationship. However and whatever works for you to get you there is great.

As well, if you can't tell already, I'm quite open about these things. I don't view it as bad in itself, just like most things in life, things are what people make of them. Its up to you if something is going to be a negative or a postitive - it on its own cannot dictate that.

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Post by idsunki »

Rational, well-spoken, willing to joke about your religion and sex life, and a Ben Folds fan.

Are you single?

Kidding, I'm not into dewdes. (see what I did there?)

Your path is not for me, but I wish you and anyone else that chooses it the best of luck. I've known a few people in my life that let things control them, and I've tried the hardest I can to not let anything like that control my life.

I guess to answer your analogy above, I do love home cooked meals. Seriously. But sometimes you just need a snack every once in awhile, right? It's all a matter of personal preference, I guess.

Thanks for impressing me.
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Post by The Drastic Spastic »

Originally posted by dewde
Here is something I also believe though. I believe that men who know porn is fantasy still use it as a crutch, especially in marriage. Surfing porn and the other act that goes with it... it's easier than the alternative. Nurturing romance with your spouse and waiting for sexual intimacy until you are both in the mood. And so I feel that in most marriages where the husband uses porn regularly... he is really robbing himself and his wife of a killer sex life. Porn and that other thing is like hitting a drive-thru for dinner. It's the equivalent of a cheap combo at McDonalds. Quality isn't great but it gets the job done. Would most people prefer a healthy, home-cooked meal sitting around the table with family and a glass of wine? Of course. But it's just too much work most days.

I guess my point is that you can be 100% aware that it's just a fantasy and not consider yourself an addict, and still be negatively impacted by using porn.
Where is the negative impact in that situation? Like, sure, fast food isn't healthy but an occasional trip through the drive-thru isn't going to hurt most people. I don't consider my occasional burger to have a negative impact on my health. I don't think about it at all, really.

I don't watch porn either but I think about it a lot. I am utterly and completely fascinated by the entire concept. I read books, watch documentaries, and keep track of the rentals at the porn shop to see what gets rented the most, and by who. (FYI, the filthy European nun fisting video was purchased within a week of hitting the shelf. Isn't that amazing?? ...well, I thought it was interesting...) Anyway the point is I miiiiight have some idea what I'm talking about here. And porn is not a problem. It's a solution. Maybe it's a solution that doesn't work for some people but... don't try to ban it. And don't try to make people feel guilty and imply that something is wrong with them if they like to get off, and like to use porn to get there. Don't try to guilt people into making the "right" choice.

I just don't get how anyone could be against porn. It's... it's porn. Oh man, porn is so weird, how can you not love it?
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Post by Garble »

Originally posted by dewde
I guess my point is that you can be 100% aware that it's just a fantasy and not consider yourself an addict, and still be negatively impacted by using porn.
Absolutely.

But again, the scenario you describe is an example of excess. If a husband is so caught up in porn to the exclusion of a healthy sex life with his wife, that's a serious problem. But any activity in excess by one member of a relationship can lead to neglect of the other. Work, drinking, sports, even reading or watching tv.

And not every healthy couple is made up of partners with equivalent sex drives. It would be great if both parties could some how synch up so that frequency and instance of desire always matched. But in reality that doesn't always happen. Some compromise and consideration can adjust for minor discrepancies. In a healthy and honest relationship, porn and "the other act" can help cope with the larger discrepancies.
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Post by dewde »

Originally posted by idsunki
Rational, well-spoken, willing to joke about your religion and sex life, and a Ben Folds fan.

Are you single?

Kidding, I'm not into dewdes. (see what I did there?)
Heh. That's a relief... me neither! And what's not to like about Ben? He's brilliant. And killer in concert.
Originally posted by idsunki
Your path is not for me, but I wish you and anyone else that chooses it the best of luck.
Thanks.
Originally posted by idsunki
I guess to answer your analogy above, I do love home cooked meals. Seriously. But sometimes you just need a snack every once in awhile, right? It's all a matter of personal preference, I guess.
I'm about to address this, since it seems to be everyone else that has replied is of the same position.
Originally posted by idsunki
Thanks for impressing me.
::: blush :::

peace|dewde
I feel like a quote out of context, withholding the rest, so i can be for you what you want to see - Ben Folds
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Post by dewde »

Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
don't try to ban it ... make people feel guilty ... imply that something is wrong with them if they like to get off, and like to use porn to get there ... Don't try to guilt people into making the "right" choice.
I would never use guilt as a tool, but I also would not refrain from pointing something out to a friend if I thought they were harming themselves or someone else just to spare them guilt. Guilt only has power in the presence of truth. A person can not feel guilty about something that is not true for them. For example one of the reasons I choose not to surf porn is because I believe that you cannot simultaneously objectify and dignify a woman. Therefore I choose to dignify.

If you disagree, and you are a porn consumer, then no guilt should be present. Life goes on. I am indifferent.

I would never imply that something is wrong with a person for liking porn and mb because I like porn and mb. I just like others things more.

I was an atheist for a decade. I fully concede that it is possible that my views as a Christian may be inaccurate, incorrect, or complete horse pucky. Obviously I don't think it's probable, especially for the foundational ones. But it is possible.

I have no interest in guilting others into conforming their lives to my belief system. What I would like to do is live by example, and if asked... speak with authenticity. God would be a pretty deplorable god if guilt was the only way he could convince us to do what is "right." I would have no interest in following him under those conditions.

peace|dewde
I feel like a quote out of context, withholding the rest, so i can be for you what you want to see - Ben Folds
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Post by dewde »

Originally posted by fourpawsonthefloor
He certainly would always prefer me, but sometimes our schedules don't match up, or I'm not feeling well (I have several conditions) - or he's tired. In that circumstance it can relieve that 'pressure' a bit - so that one mate doesn't feel obligated when they are really not doing well, and the other mate - who is extremely ready and willing - has something to do.
Originally posted by Garble
And not every healthy couple is made up of partners with equivalent sex drives. It would be great if both parties could some how synch up so that frequency and instance of desire always matched. But in reality that doesn't always happen. Some compromise and consideration can adjust for minor discrepancies. In a healthy and honest relationship, porn and "the other act" can help cope with the larger discrepancies.
I haven't surfed porn since 2003. And the "other act" since mid-2005. I haven't had intercourse since mid-November 2006. My wife is pregnant and we've had some minor complications.

Here is my point. My wife has never once asked me not to surf porn. She has never asked me not to mb. She knew that I did both on occasion (heh) before I decided to give them up. In the state she is in now, she certainly would not care if I mb'ed. Totally not an issue for her. But here is something I've been saying a lot lately. My wife is worth waiting for! Sex rocks. Yes I think about it daily. But to be honest... lately it has been a shell of its former self. It's like an appetite. The more I have starved it, the less I think about it. And the less potent my thoughts are when I do. I made the decision that I am only going to get sexual gratification from my wife when we are both in the mood for it. And to be honest, it feels good. It feels right for me. I am not owed sex. Not by her and not from myself. The first month was a b***h. Not gonna lie. But now I feel like something changed in me. I feel like I've turned from Golem back into schmegal again.

And when something makes you feel good, when you feel like your life is improved... I don;t care who you are. You want to share it so that other people can possibley experience it too.
Originally posted by The Drastic Spastic
Where is the negative impact in that situation? Like, sure, fast food isn't healthy but an occasional trip through the drive-thru isn't going to hurt most people. I don't consider my occasional burger to have a negative impact on my health. I don't think about it at all, really.
I agree the occasional trip through the drivethru isn't going to bring your life to a screaming halt. But I do believe their is cumulative effect of doing small things over a long period of time. It sounds like you and I just disagree on the potency of the individual acts, and how soon the crop comes to harvest.

peace|dewde

[Edited on 18/2/07 by dewde]
I feel like a quote out of context, withholding the rest, so i can be for you what you want to see - Ben Folds
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