so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Garble » Sat Jul 26, 2003 3:55 am

originally posted by Bamfette

There is some confusion over this, wether Nightcrawler was ever a priest or not. The short answer is NO. He was never a priest. (though he believed he was for a while) He was, however, studying to become a priest. But even that is over with now.

in X-Men #100, a '6 month gap' was stated to have taken place, and in the opening pages showed a church with Kurt dressed in priestly robes. This was the first mention of his involvement with the priesthood. Up until that point, he had been a religious character but had never expressed any interest in joining the clergy. though there was one alternate future shown in Excalibur where in later life, after his wife Amanda had died, he became a priest. So, this development came as quite a shock to many readers, as there was absolutely no leadup to it.

Anyway. afterwards, he continued his studies, he initially passed up leading the X-Men (Gambit and Rogue led in light of his refusal) to devote more time to his studies. he presided over Moira MacTaggart's funeral despite not being fully ordained yet. But other than that, not much was done with it for quite some time.

Then the books were 're-vamped' and Grant Morriosn and Joe Casey took over writing duties. Joe Casey had Kurt on his team in Uncanny, acting as a sort of co-leader with Archangel. (though no official leader was ever stated) his uniform ported the priest's dog-collar, though agian, he was stated at this time to be still *studying* to be a priest. The collar was merely a way to show his vocation without having him state it every issue, quite frankly i found it to be a relief for that reason.

Then the Church of Humanity came along. Now it gets confusing

In Uncanny X-Men #400, the X-Men went to 'the Cathedral' in Montanna to rescue Stacy X, who had fallen into the hands of the Church of Humanity. Nightcrawler teleported into the heart of the Cathedral, where he encountered the Supreme Pontiff. The SP zapped him with some form of energy which i presume to be mystical in nature. While Kurt was dazed, the SP said to him "Prepare to gaze into my abyss, mutant. Prepare to surrentder to me that which you value most..." after that we saw no more, the X-Men found him unconsious on the floor, and revived him, though he had no memory of the encounter at all.

Shortly later, in the Nightcrawler Icons miniseries, he began studying under the guidance of Father Whitney out of the Chuch of Michael the Archangel in Brooklyn. he seemed like a good, if somewhat jaded, man. But he was more than he appeared.

Somewhere along the line, Kurt begins saying he's been ordained. (UXM#408) he has a run in with some more CoH guys who instead of killing him, leave him alive because the Supereme Pontiff has 'plans' for him.

Chuck Austen took over writing duties as of Uncanny #410. He decided he did not like Kurt as a priest, so went about getting him out.

Kurt begins questioning his place in the preisthood, because he got horny, basically Stacy X had made some rather obvious advances on him, and he found himself wanting to follow through with those advances, and he says as much to Whitney. That he was discovering he had the desire to be with women again and could not or was not willing to surpress it any longer. There were other issues at stake as well, Kurt was questioning the nature and benevolence of God in issue 415. He said, among other things, in a long rant atop the spires of St Patrick's Cathedral: "I have such thoughts -- feelings I can not escape -- the desires for the touch of a woman. And now another Holy War is brewing -- more fools take up weapons of murder in your name. And you allow it. perhaps even encourage it. If we take you into our hearts, does that mean fighting and killing in your name -- or not fighting and being killed in your name? Which is the right answer? And what purpose does it serve to torment your most faithful when the goal is maybe one day sitting beside you -- alone -- possibly forever apart from the ones we love and desire -- who chose wrongly or failed your uncertain tests?" etc. and he brings these concerns before Whitney. Whitney tells him to leave in not the best temper, and so that's that, he left. (UXM#416/17)

Later, when Kurt mentioned his ordination to the others, it became clear that it never actually happened, and Jean detected traces of someone tampering with his mind. They went to the Church where Kurt had been studying with Whitney and discovered mutants who had been tortured, experimetned upon and mutilated in the basement. (UXM#423) It turns out that Father Whitney is a CoH operative and they have been tampering with his mind over a long time, for some mysterious 'plan' which will be revealed in #424.


*edit* it's been revealed. here it is, in Chuck Austen's own words, cause it is confusing.

Basic premise: Father Whitney met Kurt and got the idea to use him to bring down the Catholic church. Pope of COH sponsored his research, and use of mutant 13 to mind-control Kurt into becoming pope of the catholic church. The idea being to make "Revelation" the biblical prophecy of the "End of Days," return to heaven, and return of Christ, appear to come true in order to take control of the world. Kurt ruined it by becoming horny, again. Basically, Stacy X screwed their plans by being needy.

The plan: Using Kurt and his "Image Inducer" COH would get Kurt into position as pope, either replacing the existing one, or replacing the successor. At the same time, through Catholic holy wafers, all the "righteous" would "ascend" as they do in "Left Behind." All the wafers and wine and holy water throughout the world would be tainted with a nano-tech piece of hardware that would have a cumulative effect, and have the capacity to be remotely activated, disintegrating "the faithful" and making them appear to have "ascended."

Then Kurt would be revealed as Nightcrawler, right after all the Catholics and religious "right" had disappeared in a flash of "ascension."

It's all based on religion, Revelation, and particularly, the premise of "Left Behind."

The story was to do a kind of anti-"Left Behind." The prophecies of revelation come true, all the "faithful" disappear one day in a flash (because of the holy wafers), and then the head of the church is revealed as the "anti-Christ" (who more devilish looking than Kurt?), and the "Church of Humanity" steps up and takes over, destroying mutants as the scapegoats, and the church as the primary target, all in one fell swoop.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby NightPoofer » Sat Aug 02, 2003 8:43 pm

That helped clear up some things for me. Thanks Garble!
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Nightcat_took » Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:26 am

Shesh! ALL THIS TIME I THOUGHT HE WAS A PRIEST!:rolleyes Man, do I ever need to do some research on my fave. character!:smirk:read
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Deadcell » Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:41 pm

:mags oh dear........am i the only one who knew all that already?
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:07 pm

Nope, ;) I do believe we've known about it for a long time this is just here for those who dont know. Jill ryan chris im sure all of them have known the whole time. (what dont they know!)
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Siona » Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:42 pm

The fact that NC was a priest (however PAINFUL it might have been for us fans...:urg) has been around for a while. It won't go away...:bawl

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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Garble » Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:59 pm

Er... yeah it will...

He was trainging to be a priest and for a time he thought he was an actual priest.
However, that turned out to be an illusion projected into his mind.

So he was never really a priest.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby digidestined02 » Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:29 pm

I think it is cool to have such a religous super-hero. Is it just me or most super hero such as daredevil and nightcrawler cathlic?
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby BamfChyck » Sat Oct 04, 2003 2:44 am

Originally posted by digidestined02
I think it is cool to have such a religous super-hero. Is it just me or most super hero such as daredevil and nightcrawler cathlic?


I didn't know Daredevil was Catholic.
Roman Catholicismis the largest organized religion in the US so I guess, statistically, some US superheros must be Catholic. I can't think of any offhand, but it makes sense.
I like that comic Kurt is religious and faithful without being preachy or trying to convert anyone. Movie Kurt got on my nerves a little bit, with all the Church talk, but he was still cute (he also got on my nerves because he was tattooed and fuzzless). I haven't seen a lot of Evo but I don't think that Kurt is especially religious.
I didn't mind comic Kurt exploring the priesthood because I could see him checking out a possible calling. But I would have had a hard time with him actually becoming a priest, so I'm glad things worked out the way they did.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby OutlawStaar » Fri Oct 24, 2003 10:46 pm

Cool so if you dont like where Austen is going... your posts get deleted. Lovely, I'll remember that here.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Crawler » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:11 pm

Actually, as I u2u'd you, you broke rule #1.

I don't care what you like or what you don't and you have the right to talk about it. But you're not allowed to be disrespectful here. That's one thing we don't allow.

To put it bluntly, you're not allowed to say something sucks.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby OutlawStaar » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:17 pm

Fine (the site didn't tell me i had any pms) perhaps i should've written: I hated holy war because it made no sense unless you read five pages of explanation, and even then its full of holes. Moreover, the art was, in my opinion, terrible, far too cartoony for the serious subject matter being presented. And most of all, I hated that the Church of Humanity changed what it was about halfway through the story for no apparent reason as to why they were initially anti-mutant.

So it didn't suck.. per se... i just hated this story very very much.

EDIT: And for the record, there is nothing in my U2U Inbox or whatever its called.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby PerkyAngel » Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:16 am

I was very confused by this story. Why did the Church hate mutants?

I'm very new to the X-Men (started reading because of a paper i had to do on pop culture and sorta stuck with it :) ) but it didn't make sense :(

I'm just confused cuz i reread the chapters and alot of that above stuff wasn't in there, at least i didn't see it.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Nightcrawler ZERO » Sat Nov 08, 2003 11:58 pm

Originally posted by PerkyAngel
I was very confused by this story. Why did the Church hate mutants?


Who says their goals have to be that simple? Hateful people tend to not just have one target, but rather they hate everyone who's not like them.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Garble » Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:04 am

Originally posted by PerkyAngel
I was very confused by this story. Why did the Church hate mutants?


Well, most everyone in the Marvel Universe hates mutants... so why not include the church?
No one, specific reason was given, but it's generally assumed that the Church would be against Mutants because they're powers would be seen as unnatural or even potentially as witchcraft. Also, the Church might not like that the existance of Mutants tends to favor the theory of Evolution over Creationism.
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Postby sevati » Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:00 am

Yeah, I read about the 700 Club (really right-wing Christian show that's shown on the ABC Family channel where I live. Rather disgusting, in my view) having a hissy fit when 'God Loves, Man Kills' came out. I'm not sure if it was the original 80s one, the reprinted 90s version, or the recent X-treme arc. Anywho, the host of the show went on a tirade while waving the comic about. Seems sad and misguided to me that they'd get so worked up over a comic while there are real problems in the world, like violence and starvation (then again I have a low tolerance for the religious).

So real life reflects comic life and vice-versa. The religious fundies don't like superhero-type stuff.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Bamfette » Fri Nov 14, 2003 2:38 pm

Originally posted by PerkyAngel
I was very confused by this story. Why did the Church hate mutants?



in this case, mutants were merely a scapegoat. a popular target that the CoH used to further its own ends. the reason they *presented* was because mutants went agianst God and were not meant to be, products/proof of evolution and all that etc. and i have no doubt the lower ranking members of the CoH fully believed this.

but really, the SP wanted to get back at the Catholic Church for covering up her plight. and fabricated the whole mutant hating angle as a means to further her own ends to bring down the Catholic church.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby RavEnigma » Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:20 am

Thanks to everyone for clearing that up for me. Personally, I'm becoming Catholic (as soon as I finish Lutheran confirmation or I drop out because my pastor is an anti-Catholic bigot :mad ), and it's kinda cool to have my favorite superhero be Catholic. :) Anyway, thanks, everybody.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Ult_Sm86 » Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:47 am

Well I dunno if this will make it you feel any better but they way Kurt's life is going I wouldn't be surprised if he drops the catholic belief like a guy would drop his pants for J. Lo. (meaning quite fast) I mean he might still stay religious (how can you not after what he's been through) but I dunno if he'll be doing anymore God dancing.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby SeanChen » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:13 pm

AAAAHHHHH!!!!
:yell
I just had to get that out. It should be a crime for even thinking that such a sexy guy (not to mention smooooth) is a priest. :eek
Come on he tried his sister! That is not a priest. nope to horny.

Thank You for lisening to my ranting :P
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Nighty » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:38 am

Personally i never really saw the priest thing in Nighty, if u know what i mean :naughty:naughty:naughty
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Tonks Kittygoth » Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:45 am

Thanks for the info, the whole thing was really confusing. I don't really understand how the CoH planned on getting Kurt made pope, since the Catholic church tends to notice if it ordains or doesnt ordain people. Plus, I believe the Holy waffers, which arent used in many churches anymore infavor of baked bread, are handled individually, on a church by church basis. So only a few people will go poof. Research! Sigh, whatever, I am glad he changed his mind on the whole priest thing. I was proud of him for trying but he has abilities no one else does to help people, as he found out in the miniseries thing. It is gross though that Stacy had anything to do with it. eww
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Bamfette » Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:14 am

well the thing you have to remember about the SP and the CoH in general is... they're WACKOS. crazy, deranged. no saying the plan would have actually WORKED...
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Tonks Kittygoth » Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:38 am

Ohhh yeh,
Why do I always think crazy people are going to logically think things out. Why do I think anyone will ever logically think things out. .....
Do I ever logically think things out, dont know.
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so.... Was he a priest or wasn't he?

Postby Angelique » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:04 pm

I'm actually in the middle of writing a fanfic to address all the CoH questions.
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