Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby thylacine » Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:45 pm

Would anyone like to have a Nightcrawler & Spirituality / Religious discussion? In the movies Kurt is a real spiritual dude so I thought it would be a cool topic for discussion. Also, a lot of the fan fics get into this subject & it makes an excellent story, so that shows there is an interest. Any ideas, people?

:)
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Lauren » Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:08 pm

You mean making an entire board to talk about the subject, or using this to discuss his religious background? I is confuzzled.
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby thylacine » Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:52 pm

I am sorry that you are confuzzled.

No, like I mean just a general discussion of Nightcrawler, our favorite mutant, and spiritual / religious issues.

Like, for instance... Nightcrawler is an inspiration to me, like Yoda, since he forgives people who mistreated him, and he never loses his faith, and he always does good, and etc. He is also inspirational to me because there are so very few positive religious and / or Catholic characters in the media today. In popular culture today, religious people are often portrayed and being mean or judgmental, and Nightcrawler doesn't appear this way, and etc.

So... anyway... let the discussion begin, then. When you think of Nightcrawler and religious and / or spiritual issues, what comes to mind? Does it inspire you to write fan fiction? Or inspire you to forgive others? Or whatever... Just discuss whatever you feel like when it comes to Nightcrawler & spiritual issues. Okay? I hope people enjoy this discussion, and I hope no one decides to use it to preach or argue either. Let's just talk about it & have fun & get to know each other through this.
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby rockstar » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:31 pm

i agree. There are too few Catholic characters in pop culture today. Nightcrawler is a definite inspiration in that area.
I find it amazing that he pities the people who hurt him. He pities them instead of hating them. If everyone could be as forgiving as Nightcrawler, the world would be so much better.
Also, I think it's cool how he can be so deep in his faith and still have his sense of humor. I know too many people who say "God is everything, so I can't be funny". That's not how it works and Nightcrawler knows that.
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Lauren » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:35 pm

Well, when I think about Kurt and his religion, I usually get inspired to do a fanfic, but sometimes i think up really funny situations concerning the fact that he's Catholic and the negative way we're portrayed.

Mob: Kill the demon! Kill the demon!
Kurt: No, I'm not a demon! I'm just a Catholic mutant!
*really long pause*
Mob: Kill the Catholic! Hide the little boys! Kill the Catholic!

*sigh* Still, sometimes I pull a WWJD only instead of J it's WWKD. He's actually been able to rekindle my faith.
"I am known as Valentinez Alkalinella Xifax Sicidabohertz Gombigobilla Blue Stradivari Talentrent Pierre Andri Charton-Haymoss Ivanovici Baldeus George Doitzel Kaiser III. Don't hesitate to call." -Vash the Stampede


"No, you see I'm blind in my right eye now... So boring. You know what really makes me pissy? Grunge, Heroine chic, and dying are over. I so hate being behind the curve. Tourism's up." Brett(Alan Cumming) from Urbania
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby rockstar » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:45 pm

yeah. Even though he's a fictional character, he helps me to tell myself "If Kurt can be that close to God after he's been through so much persecution and ostricizing, why can't I be closer to God, too?"
"The whole idea of being in a dark superhero film was quite amusing, and I like that it's got a strong moral track about acceptance............. And then of course the idea of flying around, killing people with my tail -- that kind of appealed to me." :tail
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Lauren » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:46 pm

yeah...Kurt's a great guy for the Catholic religion... In all honesty if he were real, I would advocate for him to become a saint. :halogrin
"I am known as Valentinez Alkalinella Xifax Sicidabohertz Gombigobilla Blue Stradivari Talentrent Pierre Andri Charton-Haymoss Ivanovici Baldeus George Doitzel Kaiser III. Don't hesitate to call." -Vash the Stampede


"No, you see I'm blind in my right eye now... So boring. You know what really makes me pissy? Grunge, Heroine chic, and dying are over. I so hate being behind the curve. Tourism's up." Brett(Alan Cumming) from Urbania
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby rockstar » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:48 pm

I dunno about that. If he were real, I might be doing things with him that will add some more tattoos to his body......

JUST KIDDING!!!!!
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Winnowill » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:50 pm

Originally posted by Lauren

Mob: Kill the demon! Kill the demon!
Kurt: No, I'm not a demon! I'm just a Catholic mutant!
*really long pause*
Mob: Kill the Catholic! Hide the little boys! Kill the Catholic!


Lol- I love this. I send my daughter to a "Christian" private school, and she was told Catholics are not christians- by a teacher! What a moron. Let's just say, I had a "discussion" at the school.
I like the fact that they are showing him as a Catholic, but didn't like the part in the movie where he said the psalm after Jean's death. That seemed like he was pushing it too much in their time of grief, considering he was still an outsider.
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Lauren » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:52 pm

he was just praying for her. And it shows a little more how open he is with others if he can pray for someone he only knew for a few hours.
"I am known as Valentinez Alkalinella Xifax Sicidabohertz Gombigobilla Blue Stradivari Talentrent Pierre Andri Charton-Haymoss Ivanovici Baldeus George Doitzel Kaiser III. Don't hesitate to call." -Vash the Stampede


"No, you see I'm blind in my right eye now... So boring. You know what really makes me pissy? Grunge, Heroine chic, and dying are over. I so hate being behind the curve. Tourism's up." Brett(Alan Cumming) from Urbania
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby rockstar » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:53 pm

well, they say that Psalm at funerals all the time. I think it's like he's saying that even though she's "dead", Jean will be alright in Heaven.
"The whole idea of being in a dark superhero film was quite amusing, and I like that it's got a strong moral track about acceptance............. And then of course the idea of flying around, killing people with my tail -- that kind of appealed to me." :tail
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Lauren » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:54 pm

Just a little reassurance, besides, nothing kurt could do could make me mad....except joining the priesthood. That really pissed me off. It made him the stereotypical "I'm Catholic, so I'm gonna be really religious and become a priest."
"I am known as Valentinez Alkalinella Xifax Sicidabohertz Gombigobilla Blue Stradivari Talentrent Pierre Andri Charton-Haymoss Ivanovici Baldeus George Doitzel Kaiser III. Don't hesitate to call." -Vash the Stampede


"No, you see I'm blind in my right eye now... So boring. You know what really makes me pissy? Grunge, Heroine chic, and dying are over. I so hate being behind the curve. Tourism's up." Brett(Alan Cumming) from Urbania
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby rockstar » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:56 pm

THANK YOU LAUREN *applauds Lauren*

We're Catholic. We love God. But we can lead a normal life.
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Lauren » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:59 pm

Yeah, even though most people who know me think I'm more of the laid back type! WHOOO! I guess it's cause I argue every point in the Bible kinda meh*shrug* i just dislike making him a FANATIC about being Catholic. It makes me want to hurt someone. But since I'm Catholic, I can make confession and make it go away :D
"I am known as Valentinez Alkalinella Xifax Sicidabohertz Gombigobilla Blue Stradivari Talentrent Pierre Andri Charton-Haymoss Ivanovici Baldeus George Doitzel Kaiser III. Don't hesitate to call." -Vash the Stampede


"No, you see I'm blind in my right eye now... So boring. You know what really makes me pissy? Grunge, Heroine chic, and dying are over. I so hate being behind the curve. Tourism's up." Brett(Alan Cumming) from Urbania
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby rockstar » Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:14 pm

trust me, with some of the things I've said and done, you'd never guess I was Catholic. I'm somewhat like Nightcrawler (at least the comic version, anyway). I'm Catholic, but i love to have fun and be a goofball.
That's why i love Nightcrawler so much. I can relate to him. He's Catholic, he's fun-loving, but he's also a kind of misfit among misfits.
"The whole idea of being in a dark superhero film was quite amusing, and I like that it's got a strong moral track about acceptance............. And then of course the idea of flying around, killing people with my tail -- that kind of appealed to me." :tail
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Warbird » Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:17 am

I really love that nightcrawler's Catholic. He is such a popular and charismatic charicter which is the exact opposite of what we're usually portrayed as. It's sad that a comic book is the only positive exposure for Catholics in the media. I'm actually suprised at the amount of people that think that there's something wrong with my religion or say that i'm not christian. However, I don't really think that it's important that he's Catholic. The real point is that he has an undying faith and good will. That is so much more important than labeling him with a denomination. It's great that he's a good catholic that is also a good person, something that for some reason people don't belive is possible, but it's more important that he's a person of faith, no matter what religiouse sect it comes from.
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Lauren » Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:30 am

Plus, he's not the stereotype either. I hate when people say that all Catholics think abortion is wrong or the biggie....all homosexuals go to hell. Honestly, what the hell is up with that one? any way, Kurt is just so cool because he's the only one we've got who's good besides the Pope we've got now.
"I am known as Valentinez Alkalinella Xifax Sicidabohertz Gombigobilla Blue Stradivari Talentrent Pierre Andri Charton-Haymoss Ivanovici Baldeus George Doitzel Kaiser III. Don't hesitate to call." -Vash the Stampede


"No, you see I'm blind in my right eye now... So boring. You know what really makes me pissy? Grunge, Heroine chic, and dying are over. I so hate being behind the curve. Tourism's up." Brett(Alan Cumming) from Urbania
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby rockstar » Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:52 pm

yeah. The priests doing stuff with little boys aint exactly helping.
"The whole idea of being in a dark superhero film was quite amusing, and I like that it's got a strong moral track about acceptance............. And then of course the idea of flying around, killing people with my tail -- that kind of appealed to me." :tail
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Maelstrom » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:18 pm

Ironically, the main people screaming about gays going to hell are the same ones bombing abortion clinics: extremist Protestants. I've yet to hear of an RC group, church, or whatever taking pride in that. Not that I agree with the church position that homosexuality is wrong. That seems to be the big problem I have with most versions of Christianity (and I'm American Orthodox). I just can't see it as a sin. Sorry, but if no one is hurt by the action, and it's a way to show love, I just can't see the sin behind it.

I guess we're all free to disagree on things. ;)

One of the reasons the RCs have been getting the short shrift in America is because we were damn near created by Protestant militants: the Puritans. Some of these guys were wacko: the even limited their vocabulary to words written down in the King James translation of the Bible. Their hatred of the "papal whore" was legendary, and, regrettably, a lot of that has persisted. What they were actually angry about wasn't so much the way the religion was practiced as the political quagmire of Europe, which was entangled in religion. If you were Catholic, you believed in X political views, while the Protestants were of Y view. (We're still seeing the same stuff over in Ireland. :cry )

Kurt seems to espouse the "pure", unpoliticized RC faith. He doesn't constantly witness (evangelize), he doesn't make political decisions based solely on faith, and he doesn't use it as an excuse for pre-existing intolerance. He takes Christ's admonition of "As you treated the least of your brothers, so you have treated me" very seriously. And considering how he gets treated in return, it takes a lot of moral fiber to keep ones chin up in that way. :nodyes
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Lauren » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:26 pm

Yeah, Kurt is one cool guy when it comes to being Catholic. When I found out he was going to be religious in the movie, I thought "Oh God, here we go with the stereotypes." But they did a pretty good job with keeping him downsized with it and not eccentric with it.
"I am known as Valentinez Alkalinella Xifax Sicidabohertz Gombigobilla Blue Stradivari Talentrent Pierre Andri Charton-Haymoss Ivanovici Baldeus George Doitzel Kaiser III. Don't hesitate to call." -Vash the Stampede


"No, you see I'm blind in my right eye now... So boring. You know what really makes me pissy? Grunge, Heroine chic, and dying are over. I so hate being behind the curve. Tourism's up." Brett(Alan Cumming) from Urbania
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wow...!

Postby thylacine » Fri Dec 19, 2003 6:53 pm

Wow, you guys... This is really a great discussion. I love it. And this is getting some great replies, too! You guys are all so awesome. Lauren, you write terrific stories. And you guys are all correct in saying that there are too many negative stereotypes of Catholics... I guess our leadership (the "hierarchy") isn't helping right now...

Anyway, this is a great discussion. We can also use this Kurt & Religion thing to get to know each other & discuss how we feel about stuff sociologically & spiritually too.

As to how some people feel that Catholics are "not Christians" -- that is so sad. My uncle became a Jehovah's Witness, and he says that God loves only Jehovah's Witnesses, not Catholics, or Muslims, or Buddhists, or (your group in this space here). Sad, isn't it? Why can't we all just get along, and focus on the things we agree on rather than what we disagree on? Because that only drives people apart.

Anyway... one of the things that I loved so much about the movie was the portrayal of Kurt Wagner. This was because, like, FINALLY -- a Catholic was portrayed in a positive way in a movie. Now, some people may watch the movie and disagree that this is a positive portrayal of a Catholic because the guy is a mutant who climbs up walls and hungs from the ceiling from time to time. But I thought that -- now hear this! -- this movie was the best thing to happen for Catholics in a long time -- and we needed it, honey! Finally, a positive Catholic character in film -- he prays, he lives in a church, he says the Rosary, and he kicks ass then disappears before you can catch him! LOVED IT!!!
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby BamfChyck » Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:48 pm

I have to admit I returned to church, as an adult, mostly because of Kurt's example. I was looking for a spiritual direction, and I thought, oh hell, it works for Kurt. I'm not Catholic, though, I'm Episcopalian (and you know what they say, since Vatican II we're more Catholic than the Catholics. Except for the women priests, and the gay clergy, and all the divorced people, etc. etc).

I rather liked the story line where he was exploring becoming a priest because I thought his faith might lead him to see if it was a true calling or not. I didn't see him accepting all the clerical restrictions, at least not at that point in his life, but rather exploring to find where God might lead him.
So it's cool with me if he becomes a priest--he can always be received into the Epicopal/Anglican community and then he and I can get married. :)
And while I'm dreaming, I'd like a million dollars.

Movie Kurt did get on my nerves a little bit with all his God talk. I see it as more something I show others by example, like Comic Kurt. To keep it in context, Movie Kurt also got on my nerves for being fuzzless. There were lots of reasons he just wasn't my Kurt.

Somebody, somewhere on this board, a while ago, mentioned that Daredevil is also Catholic. Anybody know if that's true?
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Winnowill » Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:57 pm

My big brother had married a Jehova's Witness. I remember when I was 14 she kept trying to convert me, saying that Catholics worhiped the devil in their churches. :eek When I told her how much I felt the Spirit because I had just gone thru confirmation, she said that proved her point, it was the devil's work. :? go figure
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Shadow_Dancer » Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:40 pm

Originally posted by Maelstrom
Kurt seems to espouse the "pure", unpoliticized RC faith. He doesn't constantly witness (evangelize), he doesn't make political decisions based solely on faith, and he doesn't use it as an excuse for pre-existing intolerance. He takes Christ's admonition of "As you treated the least of your brothers, so you have treated me" very seriously. And considering how he gets treated in return, it takes a lot of moral fiber to keep ones chin up in that way. :nodyes


This is the thing that attracted me to Nightcrawler in the first place, and I was so thrilled to see a truly Christian comic book character. Some people don't understand how much influence cultural icons have on society, especially young people. Teenagers often get ostracized by their peers over the smallest differences. I think Kurt is a good influence for the disenfranchised to understand the roll of faith in making us whole, no matter how we were created.

And I too am distressed over what some of my friends at church say about Catholics. My husband, who was a very wayward teenager and almost ended up in jail, was brought to a faith in Christ by a Jesuit priest. It seems very petty. Only God knows our hearts and we are cautioned to not be judgmental. It's a pity not enough people take that to heart. It's nice that Kurt does :)
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Nightcrawler/Religious & Spiritual Discussion

Postby Lauren » Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:35 am

WAIT JUST ONE COTTON PICKING MINUTE. How in the heck do Catholics worship the devil? Honestly, I mean come on. That is so preposterous, it makes me want to hit something. That's almost like people saying Wiccans worship the devil! they don't and neither do Catholics!

Well, enough with my ranting about that! I just liked how Kurt dealt with the Church of humanity! That was a pretty cool story!
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