yay, intolerance

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:59 am

LadyErin - that's terrible. and exactly what i was thinking of. I think (and i realize you apologised and all, and believe me, we're cool. but i just want to say this) KW2k, what you need to think of is that just because you personally have not experienced this sort of behavior, it should not be assumed that it doesn't happen elsewhere. if someone says it happens, they're probably talking from experience. I went to a public school, and it wasn't as if there was a lack of Christian schools in the area. i used to live in a neighborhood with an utterly ridiculous number of schools, and many of them were Christian or Catholic. you'd think it would be relatively 'safe' since many of the Christian kids went to Christian schools. but no....

i was not given a choice of optiong out in the choir (granted, it WAS elementary school, but my sister, a wiccan, was not given the choice later on either) and we had evangelical Christians coming into the SCHOOL LIBRARY, had our teachers parade us down there to listen to them and have bibles passed out to us. this wasn't in the school yard, it was IN the school, and the teachers made us go see these guys. in a PUBLIC school. they only presented one option, it's not like they had a Buddhist and a Jew and a Muslim to come in and balance things out. just Christian. that's wrong. dead wrong.

as for the killing gays bit, i just found the God Hates Shrimp movement the most perfect answer to that ever. because it DOES say in the bible that shellfish is an 'abomination' and it is a sin to eat it. so if the majority of Christians ignore that rule, in the same book as the bit about homosexuals, it automatically negates their argument using that passage to support their biggotry.

Northstars Love · Post by **Northstars Love** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:07 am

As a person of faith I have said this time and time again that church and state must remain separate. So I can understand how a Nativity scene and Menorah may offend those who don't believe. Those things are best left to churches and private homes.

To all my christain brethern here at Scrawlers are you offended by them removing the Ten Commandments from a courthouse because you believe in the Ten Commandments? I'm not. You ask why? Because its a piece of stone. Nothing more. God doesn't exist because of that stone. Or that statue. Or the bible if you will. He will continue to exist with the passing of all these tangible things. He existed before the formation of the world. He's lives in our hearts. Our very soul. So not having any religious symbols in public life doesn't offend me at all because I believe in him regardless of these things.

Jill, according to the New Testament we can eat shellfish now. We are not bound by the cleanliness lawless of the Old Testament.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:29 pm

and another story on the Merry Christmas debacle:

LINK

In Terrebonne Parish, La., an organization is petitioning to add "Merry Christmas" to the red-lighted "Season's Greetings" sign on the main government building and is selling yard signs that read, "We believe in God. Merry Christmas." And a Raleigh, N.C., church recently paid $7,600 for a full-page newspaper ad urging Christians to spend their money only with merchants who include the greeting "Merry Christmas" in ads and displays.

BamfChyck · Post by **BamfChyck** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:24 pm

Unfortunately, the conservative Christians have a lot of money and are well organized.
They got Bush elected again, after all.

I wanted to point out: I think some things are improving. When I was a little girl, a lot of cities in my area hung up Christmas specific decorations (baby in manger, three wise men, etc.) and now I only see religiously neutral decorations on city/public land (candy canes, snowflakes). Even in areas where individuals or private businesses can sponsor the decorations, they are all neutral.
People still put out whatever they want at their homes, and several churches put out full nativities, so Christmas is definately a prescence. It's just not on public land.
I think the marketing sector has also developed an increased awareness of other holidays, and I see decorations for non-Christian religious holidays in stores and such. Thirty years ago, that just didn't happen around here.

Some changes happen slowly, and maybe in another thirty years, the decorations will be mostly religiously neutral. I suspect the only way to help the stores become more neutral is to do the opposite of what the Conservatives are pushing and only spend money in stores the say "Season's Greetings" or such. It wouldn't hurt to tell the manager that you're spending your money there for that reason, either.

LadyErin · Post by **LadyErin** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:37 am

Originally posted by Bamf Bunny
No, it doesn't. There was no such idea of "being gay" or "being straight" in Biblical times, or even when the KJV was translated. The verse you're thinking of is Leviticus 20:13, which prescribes the death penalty for specific sex acts between men. I'm not saying that's any better, but it is different.

You're right Bunny. I was thinking more about how that would be proven, than whether my terminology and phasing were correct. I should have said "the KJV does state that is legal to kill a person who engaged in homosexual acts"

And Jill, thank you. I know what a problem that caused me, I cannot really grasp what it would do to a young child, who veiws thier teachers as more along the line of their parents. *shakes head* Sadly, this wasn't the only time something like this happened, although not to me.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:41 pm

and again... though this time it's just a letter to a (crappy, I used to live around Toronto, so i've seen this publication, and it's pretty sucky as papers go) Newspaper. still, though.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/at ... 96805.html

I still don't understand what the big deal is. politically correct? you bet. but since when is trying not to exclude people a bad thing?

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:36 pm

There's so much stuff expressed (and not all that well) in that letter, but one of the big things I see is that the lady does't want to change with what's around her.

Time was when everyone you associated with was the same race, religion, political party, and so on. That wonderful "Ozzie and Harriet" "Leave it to Beaver" myth of the 50s past. But think carefully, o writer of that letter to the Metro: it was that way because one deliberately avoided, excluded, or refused to associate with anyone that "didn't match". That lovely, friendly, liliy white ideal of the 50s and before existed because white Christians didn't associate with minorities and/or with those of other religions.

"Christians have gone out of their way to be politically correct to suit their friends and I am sick of it!"

--Translation--

"Christians have associated with non-Christians, and are actually being respectful to their diverse beliefs, and I am sick of it!"

*sigh* I wonder if she can read between her own lines, there?

The Drastic Spastic · Post by **The Drastic Spastic** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:00 pm

I read this thread the other day and I realized I had no idea what businesses in my area did. So I actually looked at the signs and everything here says Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays.

I don't think I have a point. Just that I don't really care. Christmas is all about buying stuff to show you care anyway.

Bamfette · Post by **Bamfette** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:36 pm

i actually don't particularly care what the stores put up all that much.... what really irks me is when they change it to something neutral and inclusive to everyone, and the Christians raise a stink for no good reason