X-Men Schism - Analysis of the X-Men Event

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X-Men Schism - Analysis of the X-Men Event

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

So since Kurt's death in Second Coming, there has since been no X-Men crossover event. In fact, the mutant race has stayed pretty much out of everybody's way in the last few Major Marvel crossovers, with the exception of Juggernaut becoming Kuurth: Breaker of Stone.
So while Fear Itself wraps up, another new project arises from the Marvel Publishers.

This event (contained to just X-Men Books) is called SCHISM.

Very little is known about it other than this will define the split in the team which has been predicted for so long. With Scott's ever growing "Generalissimo" attitude and Logan's sudden escalator into leadership roles, it's no wonder this event is getting the press it's getting.

Here are some tidbits of information:

A Discussion With the X-Men Offices

followed by

CBR's analysis of the Event


So the question is ...

what do you think?
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X-Men Schism - Analysis of the X-Men Event

Post by Starfish »

First of all, if you think about getting the "Prelude to Schism" mini-series - don't. Please, do yourself a favour and skip it. All four issues are a waste of time and paper. Absolutely nothing happens except for some flashbacks and Cyclops sharing some thoughts on his fellow mutants. The worst thing is that it does contain nothing related to the actual event, and bascially was Marvel's way to con you for money.

That being said, Schism #1 was out this week, and as expected does not follow up the non-events in the prelude title. Without giving spoilers, I'll say that it was... okay. Not great, but not awful either.

The premise is silly and feels forced, as anti-mutant sentiments on a global scale don't make much sense on post-decimation Marvel Earth, where 200 mutants wouldn't receive much attention compared to alien invasion forces, Nazi mecha-armies, and ancient gods trying to bring about armageddon on a weekly basis. I'm willing to accept it for now, since all of this seems to be only the backdrop to the actual central conflicts of the story.

Most of the dialogue and character interactions were decent, however, and made up for the somewhat shaky premise. I even liked Wolverine in this, and normally I can't stand him. The new mutant characters are used nicely, as well. With this being little more than just a set up for the event (really, the prelude mini series did nothing!), it all depends on the next issue and whether things progress in a believable way or dissolve into a contrived mess like some past X-Men stories.

So far, I'm interested.
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X-Men Schism - Analysis of the X-Men Event

Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Star, I haven't gotten to read it myself but I was told the same thing about Logan by 2 other sources. Also it. Was confirmed to me the ridiculous concept put forth is even slightly mocked by Logan himself above notes that after 20 years their efforts have still proved fruitless on trying to change the minds of normal humans. It seems Marvel is trying to strain the redundancy from their titles out of the repetition rut. xmen, ghost rider, spidey... it is all changing now. Everything from themes to characterse and their objectives. also this is my first post from the new cell, how'd I do? LOL!

[Edited on 15/7/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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X-Men Schism - Analysis of the X-Men Event

Post by TechPrincess »

So, since Schism is almost over, what do we think?

I am a little underwhelmed by the bits in GenHope, but I will be picking up the last two for schism since it involves my team. What does everyone else think of it?
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

I haven't been reading it issue-by-issue, but keeping up with the main event when I visit the store by reading through/skimming.


From what I've seen/read in combination with what I have been told first hand by those who are reading it...

It's really lame. A lot of hot air.

I see the Logan/Scott fight finally happened, and it didn't even reach a decent climax before getting horribly interrupted.

They could never give that to the fans. Too many Logan fans say Wolverine can't lose (based on his healing factor) but so many Summers-Clan fans will argue Scott can't lose because of his pique-level training, capabilities, control of his powers, and his full force of his beam.

Bit far fetched of a fight, and of course they didn't let it hit a full resolve. Lame.
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X-Men Schism - Analysis of the X-Men Event

Post by Wahnsinn »

I've been reading it, and I'm of two minds about it. It's good that they're finally doing something to get some of the mutants off Utopia. The conflict, to me, feels slightly forced. The lead-up just wasn't prominent enough, so it seems to come out of nowhere rather than coming across as an inevitability.

Wolverine may not be the ideal character to put forth as the alternative leader, given that he's never been all that interested in leading when actually given a choice. While it may represent an evolution in his attitude, it also seems odd for him to be the one protesting kids in combat. It's kind of hard to forget his adventures with Kitty and Jubilee, both teenagers at the time.

As for the mechanics, Aaron writes a pretty good Wolvie. (You'd hope so with him being the author on the solo book, right?) The kid villains are rather absurd and one-dimensional, but perhaps they're simply meant to show the other side of kids as combatants. Whatever they are, they're not the focal point of the story: that's the conflict between Scott and Logan that results in a splitting of the team. I don't think the execution on that is bad, but it suffers from the aforementioned poor setup.

EDIT - I've said it before and will say it again: I loved GH #10. Even my hubby, who wouldn't miss the title if it were cancelled tomorrow, praises that issue. It made us both want to see more character pieces from Gillen, which is why we ordered the issue of Journey Into Mystery featuring Mephisto. :)

Ult_Sm86 wrote:I see the Logan/Scott fight finally happened, and it didn't even reach a decent climax before getting horribly interrupted.
Er, the fight's not over yet. Preview pages of #5 show them continuing to fight while the sentinel tries to kill them. Clearly, neither of them will die, but that's to be expected.

[Edited on 30/9/11 by Wahnsinn]
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

The continue fighting while that's going on?


That's sorta stupid isn't it? I mean... how can either of them be taken seriously as leaders after that if they fight and argue instead of resolving anything. Logan must put Scott down hard or Scott put Logan Down hard, quickly after that preview page you saw. Because if they're arguing half the issue and no one breaks it up, wouldn't they be wasting critical evacuation time? It sounds like this "improper set-up" has laid down a path of "improper execution".
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Post by Wahnsinn »

Well, to be fair, there is a detonator involved in this fight. If the fight stops without the detonator changing hands or the bomb being disabled, Utopia's getting blown to smithereens.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Is someone going to have a every-quarter-death at the end of this event?
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Post by Wahnsinn »

Not that I'm aware of, but I do know that somebody's supposed to die in X-Factor. If somebody important does kick the bucket during Schism, it'll actually be a surprise. (An un-hyped death?! Gasp!)
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Post by TechPrincess »

This really saddens me. This could have potentially been a brilliant storyline with lots of character development and depth... but no. It's just not from all that I gather.
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Post by Starfish »

This event really has been pretty lacklustre so far. If we count the prelude mini-series and the two issues of Generation Hope tieing in (which have been excellent, by the way), it took us 10 out of 11 issues to find out what causes the actual smackdown between Scott and Logan, and even then it gives the impression to be about a fairly petty argument - two bratty kids brawling while the actual threat looms in the background; some leaders those two.

What irks me is that we actually have some very good material upon which an ideological rift among the X-Men could have been developed; after all, Scott's methods of leadership have become more than questionable recently, and it would have been easy to built tension caused by the growing dissent, leading up to an inevitable confrontation. Instead so much panel space was wasted introducing completely unnecessary (and highly annoying) villains whose actions barely have any relevance to the main plot and instead only took away the focus from the brewing conflict.

The situation leading up to the schism should have been introduced in the prelude books, or at the very least in the first issue of the actual event - not the penultimate issue. Right now, I can't blame anyone waiting for Schism to finally be over so that the really interesting stuff can start, namely Regenesis.
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Post by Wahnsinn »

Ugh, the prelude was horrid. It's no wonder the actual event doesn't appear to be pulling sales much higher than the highest-selling regular X-title after that. The guys at Marvel say it was a "thematic prelude"--not that they could be bothered to mention that in the solicitations. The Big Bad approaching the island in that? Nothing we'll ever see. It was just an abstract threat. What a waste.

IIRC, the new Hellfire Club is supposed to last beyond Schism, so that is kind of a setup for future stories. The kids are absurd, but maybe they'll be taken out of power by the end, leaving the HC open to new (or old) leadership.

Thanks to the way the X-Men have simply gone along with Scott's ideas for so long, an outlandishly threatening catalyst was kind of needed to kick off the philosophical conflict. To get Logan to the point of getting miffed about kid soldiers, the stage had to be set so that only the kids were available to do the fighting. It's not like the kids weren't fighting alongside the veterans during every other major conflict since Decimation.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

So for clarities sake..

can someone explain this new Hellfire Kids Club


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Post by Wahnsinn »

The kid doing all the talking is Kade Kilgore. He's a 12-year-old who killed his dad to take over his weapons-manufacturing company and managed to impress the remaining members of the Hellfire Club enough to be crowned Black King. All the kids are quite twisted, especially the girl. They're the ones responsible for freeing Quentin Quire, coordinating and leading the museum attack that incapacitated several of the X-Men, and unleashing the giant sentinel that attacked Utopia.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

They're pains in the ass, basically? LOL!
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Post by Indigo_Lady »

I will have to admit that I haven't read this story arc, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to just from the many things I have heard about it on this and other forums. Are the writers so strapped for imaginative stories that they have to turn a bunch of kids into cold-blooded murderers? Just the idea is very off-putting to me. I don't think it's clever writing. I think it's totally twisted.

From what scans I have seen from it, I find the art very juvenile. Not much in this that makes me want slap down my hard earned money. Small wonder the sales are not what Marvel was hoping for.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

The writing can be clever/creative in this scenario if done correctly. Creepy children who act inexplicably horrible, beyond their years, is always a scary scenario.

I just don't think they deliver well as good foes for a group as Uncanny as the X-Men.
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Post by Wahnsinn »

Indigo_Lady wrote: I will have to admit that I haven't read this story arc, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to just from the many things I have heard about it on this and other forums. Are the writers so strapped for imaginative stories that they have to turn a bunch of kids into cold-blooded murderers? Just the idea is very off-putting to me. I don't think it's clever writing. I think it's totally twisted.

I agree with Ult_Sm86 that it could work. It really depends on how it's played in the future, and it'll probably require a delicate balance to keep it from jumping the shark.

With the philosophical divide hinging on the use of children, it's an interesting contrast to see the villains be even younger than the X-kids. The Hellfire kids made their own situation, but the X-kids are victims of circumstance. The former rid themselves of every adult in their path, but the latter are caught between one adult who would protect their innocence as much as possible and another who would groom them to be soldiers.

Could it all go horribly wrong? Of course, but that's the case with every story.
From what scans I have seen from it, I find the art very juvenile. Not much in this that makes me want slap down my hard earned money. Small wonder the sales are not what Marvel was hoping for.
The art was done by a different artist on each issue, in the following order: Carlos Pacheco, Frank Cho, Daniel Acuña, Alan Davis, and Adam Kubert.
I wouldn't call any of them juvenile, but they won't all be to everyone's individual tastes.
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Davis and Kubert are far from juvenille, I applaud all of their works.


And Pacheco isn't too bad either. Don't know Cho, and I'm sure I'd know Acuña if I saw it/was told it was his.
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Post by Indigo_Lady »

I haven't seen scans from every issue (only 1-3). I'm just not impressed with the scans I have seen. I'm pretty fussy about my comic art. I don't want it to look too cartoonish. Some artists just don't draw the detail that I like to see, as in Alan Davis' work. Kubert I like for the most part.

Which issue did Alan Davis pencil? I wouldn't mind seeing some scans from that one. Pachenco isn't too bad, but not among my favorites. Cho's characters are okay. His backgrounds, however, leave a lot to be desired, and I don't like the way he makes all the bold outlines around the characters (maybe the fault of the inker?). I'm not a fan of Acuña at all.
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Post by Wahnsinn »

I listed them in order, so Davis would be issue #4.

I'm a bit picky about art as well, but the cartoony stuff bothers me less than hyper-stylized stuff. Depending on the title, a distorted cartoony style, like Ramos', really works. Bachalo's style has become so stylized that it's hard to make sense of half the panels, so it makes me a little scared for WatXM. Acuña's art tends to make everything look like it's in a dream state or something, which makes it an odd fit for a lot of stories. Maybe I'd like his stuff more if it were colored differently.

I'd really like to see someone other than Greg Land as the rotating artist with Pacheco on UXM. (Why must Silvestri be on Hulk? Why?! *sob*) His stuff is pretty but, to me, far too often lifeless. There's been some improvement in his action scenes lately, but someone seriously needs to tell him to get new reference material. I constantly find myself wondering where I've seen a face/body before, and it's bloody distracting. :P
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

I have to disagree Wahnsinn, I <3 Ramos' style, the way I love Skottie Young's, Delgado's, and Humberto Ramos'.

I know they're stylized, I know they got extra shading, shadows, etc... but I think it's just that I enjoy seeing my favorite characters in such drastically different styles.

Characters like Nightcrawler and Spider-Man, (my two faves incase you guys didn't figure that out yet) are very easily adaptable into a wide variety of styles.

I think Bacchalo's early stuff ( or rather the only stuff I have to compare with), being the introduction of Maggott in comparison to something like, "Storm + Gambit" during the whole vampire fiasco? Shows how far he's developed his style to fit certain story lines.

Also, it seems the generation has as much of a style as the artists do. In the '90's everyone of the fellas has rippling, mind-boggling, muscles, thick chins, and the ladies... don't get me started on the ladies.

Nowadays there seems to be a push (maybe from art-editors?) in the entire comic industry to push for more diversity in appearance. Might be why the stylized artists keep getting so many big gigs (such as Bacchalo landing "W&tXM"
Either way, I'm not against much of the art from the scans I've seen/pages I've read, but the story writing seemed kind of atrocious.

And I still stand by Kubert doing no wrong. Surprised that between Aquaman and Flashpoint he found time to do an art or an X-Event over at Marvel.

==EDIT==
MY BAD! I just realized I mixed up Andy with his brother! Joe would be so disappointed in me :(

[Edited on 13/10/11 by Ult_Sm86]

==DOUBLE EDIT FOR GOOD MEASURE==

My bad again, it appears they both signed contracts in 2005 for Exclusive DC work.
I wonder how they wiggled out of that? Did the contract run up? Or did he explain "I'm tired of Batman and Flash. I'm going back to X-Men."

[Edited on 13/10/11 by Ult_Sm86]
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Post by Indigo_Lady »

We are getting a little off topic, but I agree. I'm not fond of Bachalo either. I guess some people must be, that's why he keeps getting the more important books. I especially dislike his Nightcrawler.

From a woman's perspective, I see Kurt as a handsome man despite his mutant features. I don't like artists that don't get that. Bachalo usually draws Kurt as creepy/ugly IMHO. I'm happier with Kurt drawn by Davis, Dave Cockrum, Romita, Brandon Peterson, Sean Chen and Darick Robertson (Sadly, I didn't like how Darick drew Storm). I know a lot of people hate Land, but some of his cover work for the third Nightcrawler solo series are my favorite images of Nightcrawler.

I generally like Marc Silvestri, but I don't care for how he draws Kurt, for the same reason as Bachalo.

I'm not completely apposed to stylized work. I consider Salvador Larroca's work to be somewhat stylized at times. For some reason I find it fairly appealing, especially his Xtreme X-men. I have a panel from one of the few times Kurt appears in that series pinned up in my office. My colleagues usually roll their eyes when they see it, but they know I'm a Nightcrawler fan. :)
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Post by Ult_Sm86 »

Well the event's over anyways, so I'm going to make an effort to start posting more about Regenisis.

Does anyone know if either of the Kuberts is gonna do some work in that?
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